Question about Beta testing for Desert of Flames

[Eyes_of_Truth]

Hello, im not sure if it is a legal reason (or probably a maturity reason) for not allowing people under the age of 18 to participate in beta testing.

 

Im 16 years old, but I would like to consider myself well educated and in control of both my mental and emotional self :smileyhappy:

 

Just would like to know why im barred from participating in beta testing for DoF.

 

I love testing, and would be a permanent test-server person if I didn’t already love my current guild and server (which has a lot of my real life friends in it who would linch me if I ditched them :smileywink: )

 

I really enjoy testing out new material, and trying to balance it out so that everyone has an equal opportunity to succeed.

 

I would really appreciate an answer, but I understand completely if it is for legal reasons, and I also understand the moral reasons for not allowing anyone under age 18, as generally people in my age group are not as .....easy..... to work with :smileywink:

 

Well, have a very nice day,

 

Toodles!

 

PS: used word to spellcheck and such, that was the edit

Message Edited by Eyes_of_Truth on 07-19-200505:41 PM

Message Edited by Eyes_of_Truth on 07-19-2005 05:42 PM

[Edowen]

My guess is that it is a legal issue.  You are not old enough to be able to enter into a legally binding contract.

Edowen

[Eyes_of_Truth]

Just as a side thought, a possible reason behind the 18+ age limit might be the NDA, and being able to legaly punish a minor.... hmm

would love some info, im just speculating :smileywink:

Toodles!

[Eyes_of_Truth]

What about my legal guardian accepting the terms for me? Curious if there is a way to do it.

Toodles!

[Pon]

you are an awefully truthful person eyes_of_truth.

 

Take a walk on the wild side for once, lie and say your 18. :smileyvery-happy: I doubt Moorgaurd will show up at your house asking to see ID.

 

 

[Edowen]

I have dealt with a lot of NDAs in the corporate world, on both ends, including being the person who answered the lawyer's questions about the business issues when the NDA was being drafted.  :smileywink:  With that background, but not being an SoE employee, I will speculate a bit.  Usually an NDA says you can't share the information with anyone, or, if it is between two companies, it may allow you to share the information with other people in your company if they are also working on the same thing, and will protect the information at least as well as you will.  It may be a legal issue of it not making sense because how can anyone delegate a contractual responsibilty to someone who is not legally responsible.  (In other words, it might make no sense for an adult to say a 16-year-old will fulfill contractual obligations as well as the adult can.)  On the other hand, SoE just may be keeping things simple and conservative by just having a rule with no exceptions.  In any case, if you can't participate, you can't participate.  Nothing discussed here will change that.  Hang on, you will be 18 soon enough.  There will be plenty of betas to play in then, too.

 

Edowen

[Eyes_of_Truth]

Unless some convienantly drunk age 20 or less male driving a red sports car hits me going to school :smileysurprised:

Hehe i laugh at the over generalizations that insurance companies and other cooperate bodies make.....then part of me understands it...loosely :smileyhappy:

Apparently age means a lot to law makers and CO's.

 For laughs, here is just a list of laws that have age/gender requirments:

Cant drink till 21, but I can be drafted and have my life on the line for my country at age 18 (or is it 17 now?)

In some states, im not allowed to hold a job outside of my own family till 18, yet im subject to taxes from birth to retirement age (and then it's only a few brakes from what i understand)

Im able to get a pilot's licance before i can get a drivers licance i think....:smileywink:

Oh and I love this one hehe..... because red happens to be a color i like, and because i have a thing between my legs, my car insurance rates are SKY HIGH till im 21 when im magicaly suposed to become rational, beable to hold my liquor, and know how to not crash a car like an 18 year old femail instictfully knows.....:smileyvery-happy:

Hehe i love/loath the legal system :smileyindifferent:

Toodles!

Message Edited by Eyes_of_Truth on 07-19-2005 06:19 PM

[Gorhauth]

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Eyes_of_Truth wrote:

Cant drink till 21, but I can be drafted and have my life on the line for my country at age 18 (or is it 17 now?)

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That is incorrect.  If you are active duty (which includes through a draft if it were to happen again), you are allowed to drink on military installations.  There are also states that have a lower drinking limit (like Minnesota is 18 (or was when I was growing up)).

[Eyes_of_Truth]

Oh wow, didnt know that hehe.

Interesting....ney intreging!...hehe

Toodles!

[Daffid011]

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Eyes_of_Truth wrote:

Oh wow, didnt know that hehe.

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That really answers your own question if you look at it.

[dubbs]

Gorhauth wrote.

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Eyes_of_Truth wrote:

Cant drink till 21, but I can be drafted and have my life on the line for my country at age 18 (or is it 17 now?)

---

That is incorrect.  If you are active duty (which includes through a draft if it were to happen again), you are allowed to drink on military installations.  There are also states that have a lower drinking limit (like Minnesota is 18 (or was when I was growing up)).

 

------------------------------------------------------------

 

This is incorrect Gorhauth.  In his infinite wisdom President Clinton changed this law, and you must now be 21 to drink on any military base.

[Eyes_of_Truth]

:smileywink: Heheh please insert foot into mouth Gorhauth :smileytongue:

 

Jk lol....i was about to say i had never herd of the age 18 rule while on base... Probly becuase clintin was in office all the while i was growin up :smileyhappy:

 

Toodles!

[Gorhauth]

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dubbs wrote:

Gorhauth wrote.

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Eyes_of_Truth wrote:

Cant drink till 21, but I can be drafted and have my life on the line for my country at age 18 (or is it 17 now?)

---

That is incorrect.  If you are active duty (which includes through a draft if it were to happen again), you are allowed to drink on military installations.  There are also states that have a lower drinking limit (like Minnesota is 18 (or was when I was growing up)).

 

------------------------------------------------------------

 

This is incorrect Gorhauth.  In his infinite wisdom President Clinton changed this law, and you must now be 21 to drink on any military base.

---

Ahhh, by the time he was in office I was off base.  Guess thats why I didn't hear about it.  What about the drinking ages in Minnesota and Montana, did those change?

[WAPCE]

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Gorhauth wrote:

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dubbs wrote:

Gorhauth wrote.

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Eyes_of_Truth wrote:

Cant drink till 21, but I can be drafted and have my life on the line for my country at age 18 (or is it 17 now?)

---

That is incorrect. If you are active duty (which includes through a draft if it were to happen again), you are allowed to drink on military installations. There are also states that have a lower drinking limit (like Minnesota is 18 (or was when I was growing up)).

------------------------------------------------------------

This is incorrect Gorhauth. In his infinite wisdom President Clinton changed this law, and you must now be 21 to drink on any military base.

---

Ahhh, by the time he was in office I was off base. Guess thats why I didn't hear about it. What about the drinking ages in Minnesota and Montana, did those change?

---

That changed a number of years ago when states were given the choice of making the drinking age 21 state-wide or lose their federal highway funding. Louisiana was one of the last to go. Way off-topic now...

[Styk]

To go even farther off topic how can you threaten a state government with losing funding for a particular project? That sounds really irrational... Since they dont want to lower the drinking age to 18, they should raise the age to vote and be drafted to 21........ but wait then the irresponsible youth under 21 all of the sudden are responsible enough to die for their country and choose its leaders.... Talk about a Big double standard lol

[Wildgo]

Well since we are off the main topic I am just going to pipe in and say I am glad to be canadian and then depart quickly before I get burned by the flames. lol

But back on main topic I think that the legal obligation is the main reason for it being 18 and over, or we are just over thinking it and it might be somehting simple as you need to be over 18 because that is when you can get a credit card in your own name and that is what they want.

You know what they say Keep it simple Stupid. :smileywink:

[Redorin]

Off topic -  Military drinking laws and the same as the laws of the host country/state

 

Stationed in Italy right now and 18+ can drink on base and off...or 14+ off base really but whos counting. Same thing goes in Korea. So if you want to drink join the military!

[DaenaeRavenso]

And to add to the things you can do before your 18.....You can seek medical attention without your parents permission.  The doctor/hospital doesn't have to disclose any info to your parents BUT can legally hold them responsible for the bills.  Trust me, I have firsthand knowledge of this one when my 16 yr old got pregnant.

 

Dae

[shilo]

Actually, that is based on the branch of military service yo uare in as well. I am in the Marine Corps and when I was stationed in Okinawa, the legal drinking age for locals was 20.

 

Great!...nope...the Army, Air Force, and Navy could all abide by those rules, and drink legally at 20. However, I can't remember the amount of Marines I knew that were punished and had money and rank taken away from them for drinking under the age of 21.

 

So, although still off topic, I don't want anyone to join theMarine Corps thinking they can drink under 21...wont happen my friend.

[Ibixat]

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shilosw wrote:

Actually, that is based on the branch of military service yo uare in as well. I am in the Marine Corps and when I was stationed in Okinawa, the legal drinking age for locals was 20.

 

Great!...nope...the Army, Air Force, and Navy could all abide by those rules, and drink legally at 20. However, I can't remember the amount of Marines I knew that were punished and had money and rank taken away from them for drinking under the age of 21.

 

So, although still off topic, I don't want anyone to join theMarine Corps thinking they can drink under 21...wont happen my friend.

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I'm just going to go out on a limb here and say that anyone joining the military just so they can drink under the age of 21 should probably have never been able to pass the psych evaluation to join in the first place.

[Krim]

Bah.  Already answered   *you did not see this post...look away....look away*

Message Edited by Krim on 07-26-200508:59 AM

Message Edited by Krim on 07-26-2005 08:59 AM

[Nibbl]

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dubbs wrote:

Gorhauth wrote.

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Eyes_of_Truth wrote:

Cant drink till 21, but I can be drafted and have my life on the line for my country at age 18 (or is it 17 now?)

---

That is incorrect.  If you are active duty (which includes through a draft if it were to happen again), you are allowed to drink on military installations.  There are also states that have a lower drinking limit (like Minnesota is 18 (or was when I was growing up)).

 

------------------------------------------------------------

 

This is incorrect Gorhauth.  In his infinite wisdom President Clinton changed this law, and you must now be 21 to drink on any military base.

---

Your all wrong Drinking age is established by base commanders and typically follows local laws at least in the U.S., however I have seen a few exceptions. While I was overseas, including the Clinton era, the drinking age on every base I went to was 18, which was established by the base or area commander. Heck there is gambling on bases overseas, slots machines and such.

Drinking laws in states have a long history, to include the infamous 3.2% beer. This was the beer 18-20 year olds were allowed to drink in a few states, versus the 6%. However, 3.2% beer stills exists in those states even after it became illegal for 18-20 year olds, long story as to why….. not gonna get into it here though   States laws on drinking age changed around 1986.

On topic, when you turn 18 Eyes you can sign all the NDAs you want If you work for a large corporation that develops some sort of product you will probably sign and NDA, its how they protect their interests. If you sign an NDA with SoE and you violate it you could always pull out the age card and play stupid, "I didn’t know what I was doing or signing"!

 

[Tanaric]

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Nibblar wrote:

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dubbs wrote:

Gorhauth wrote.

---

Eyes_of_Truth wrote:

Cant drink till 21, but I can be drafted and have my life on the line for my country at age 18 (or is it 17 now?)

---

That is incorrect.  If you are active duty (which includes through a draft if it were to happen again), you are allowed to drink on military installations.  There are also states that have a lower drinking limit (like Minnesota is 18 (or was when I was growing up)).

 

------------------------------------------------------------

 

This is incorrect Gorhauth.  In his infinite wisdom President Clinton changed this law, and you must now be 21 to drink on any military base.

---

Your all wrong Drinking age is established by base commanders and typically follows local laws at least in the U.S., however I have seen a few exceptions. While I was overseas, including the Clinton era, the drinking age on every base I went to was 18, which was established by the base or area commander. Heck there is gambling on bases overseas, slots machines and such.

Drinking laws in states have a long history, to include the infamous 3.2% beer. This was the beer 18-20 year olds were allowed to drink in a few states, versus the 6%. However, 3.2% beer stills exists in those states even after it became illegal for 18-20 year olds, long story as to why….. not gonna get into it here though   States laws on drinking age changed around 1986.

On topic, when you turn 18 Eyes you can sign all the NDAs you want If you work for a large corporation that develops some sort of product you will probably sign and NDA, its how they protect their interests. If you sign an NDA with SoE and you violate it you could always pull out the age card and play stupid, "I didn’t know what I was doing or signing"!

 

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You're right. I'm on an overseas military base right now, and the drinking age is 18.

 

However, you're a little off about the NDA thing and age. The reason that people under the age of 18 can't sign an NDA is that signatures of minors are not legally binding in most states—he could sign it, but it wouldn't mean anything should he be sued for violating it. Sony's blanket policy in this case makes a lot of sense.

[Nibbl]

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Tanaric wrote:

---

Nibblar wrote:

---

dubbs wrote:

Gorhauth wrote.

---

Eyes_of_Truth wrote:

Cant drink till 21, but I can be drafted and have my life on the line for my country at age 18 (or is it 17 now?)

---

That is incorrect.  If you are active duty (which includes through a draft if it were to happen again), you are allowed to drink on military installations.  There are also states that have a lower drinking limit (like Minnesota is 18 (or was when I was growing up)).

 

------------------------------------------------------------

 

This is incorrect Gorhauth.  In his infinite wisdom President Clinton changed this law, and you must now be 21 to drink on any military base.

---

Your all wrong Drinking age is established by base commanders and typically follows local laws at least in the U.S., however I have seen a few exceptions. While I was overseas, including the Clinton era, the drinking age on every base I went to was 18, which was established by the base or area commander. Heck there is gambling on bases overseas, slots machines and such.

Drinking laws in states have a long history, to include the infamous 3.2% beer. This was the beer 18-20 year olds were allowed to drink in a few states, versus the 6%. However, 3.2% beer stills exists in those states even after it became illegal for 18-20 year olds, long story as to why….. not gonna get into it here though   States laws on drinking age changed around 1986.

On topic, when you turn 18 Eyes you can sign all the NDAs you want If you work for a large corporation that develops some sort of product you will probably sign and NDA, its how they protect their interests. If you sign an NDA with SoE and you violate it you could always pull out the age card and play stupid, "I didn’t know what I was doing or signing"!

 

---

You're right. I'm on an overseas military base right now, and the drinking age is 18.

 

However, you're a little off about the NDA thing and age. The reason that people under the age of 18 can't sign an NDA is that signatures of minors are not legally binding in most states—he could sign it, but it wouldn't mean anything should he be sued for violating it. Sony's blanket policy in this case makes a lot of sense.

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Thats what I implied but didnt clearly state, thanks   We can try you as an adult for criminal charges, but you cant be held accountable for contracts, got it   Write your congressman

[Eyes_of_Truth]

I just thought about something....if i cant legaly accept a binding contract...how can i except the EULA at start up? Does that mean they cant legaly do anything if i violate it?

Some loophole?

Explaination would be cool hehe.

Toodles!

[EtoilePirate]

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Eyes_of_Truth wrote:

I just thought about something....if i cant legaly accept a binding contract...how can i except the EULA at start up? Does that mean they cant legaly do anything if i violate it?

Some loophole?

Explaination would be cool hehe.

Toodles!

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If you actually read the EULA, it's your parent or legal guardian accepting it on your behalf as long as you are a minor child -- that is, under 18. Unfortunately for you, I don't believe the same can apply to the NDA.

[Eyes_of_Truth]

Sigh... gota love that twisted thing we like to call the legal system ... so my parents can accept the rights to rent the software but not the rights to test it :smileymad:

Laws sometimes just dont make sence lol... not all laws just wierd ones like these that allow it in some cases but not in others.

oh well

Toodles!

[Edowen]

If you read all the fine print, your parents are responsible for the account and are supposed to be accepting the EULA on your behalf. 

 

Edowen

[Eyes_of_Truth]

Then why cant they accept the NDA on my behalf? not trying to aurgue just little odd rule imo. I couldnt get tried for leaking NDA info but my parents could if they accepted on my behalf correct? That is hypotheticaly speaking if it was allowed that is.

[Mage-Apprentice]

The eulo isn't a contract, making an account you accept rules, but you do not sign a contract, that is why your parents can accept/make an account for you, but not accept the NDA for you.

 

I am pritty sure SOE is that dumb to make an NDA, where evry person can click I am 18, and can get away with it....., so I wont even test breaking the NDA as a minor, even getting in the beta might give trouble if they find out......, not sure how the laws are by pretending being 18 and sigin NDA's and also breaking it also...

 

Some laws do stink indeed (about alcohol, being a Dutch citizen, you can buy bear/wine at the age of 16, an 18 for the strong liqueds (whiskey, brandy))