Assasin VSRanger

[Squigglle]

Well???? Whats the ups and downs?

[HazNpho]

Ranger can't solo for [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]! well not the one I saw at least, he had 2 lvls on me and we were both within eyesight of eachother fighting the same mob, in LFD, he couldn't root the thing to get back and use ranged, so he was stuck to melee. That was the end of the fight, his health went down faster then a mob you just decapitated.

[whytakemine]

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HazNpho wrote:
Ranger can't solo for [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]! well not the one I saw at least, he had 2 lvls on me and we were both within eyesight of eachother fighting the same mob, in LFD, he couldn't root the thing to get back and use ranged, so he was stuck to melee. That was the end of the fight, his health went down faster then a mob you just decapitated.

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Rangers actually solo slightly better than assassins, althought they both are just about the worst solo'ing classes you can play.  Not to say they can't do it, but almost every other class can do it better.  By solo'ing I mean killing hard mobs.  If you mean killing easy mobs for xp, then they're both pretty good.  Your gear was probably better, or he just didn't know how to play as well.

Assassin dps tends to be a bit higher, but I think most people would agree a lot of that is because we can shore up our weak points more easily (haste is easier to come by than dps, good dw easier than a good bow) and some procs only proc from melee not ranged.  On the plus side for rangers, on a ranged fight they lose less dps than we do.  Ranger AoE's also seem a little better, our single target damage seems better.

I've never played a ranger at the end-game though.  Hopefully one of the many who betrayed will drop in and give you a better answer, and if you're really lucky it will be one that can consistently parse 1k+ with either class. 

[swiftne]

This gets brought up SOOO often on these boards.

 

I am not going to tell you to use the search tool because it's lame, I will however tell you that for future reference you might want to try it because I guaruntee before this post falls to the 2nd page or lower, there will be at least one person to tell you to do so.

 

Assassin and Ranger are both single target BEASTS. Assassin IMO is funner to play because unlike a ranger, if the mob gets to us..... we rip it up.

 

As for neither being able to solo, I do just fine soloing, just know your limit and really try to connect with the class. It will be frustrating at times, and seem like you are somewhat of a glass cannon....but I assure you if you play right you will be like a FMJ bullet ripping through things.

[Tasye]

I quit playing my Ranger after the big nerf, and betrayed to Assassin when SOE revamped the betrayal quest.Ranger's melee sucks, and ranged isn't all that good, so I spent a lot of time flailing away at mob which was frustrating.Assassin has ok ranged and good melee, fights are over much faster and are lots more fun overall, this class takes a bit more timing of CA's and picking your fights well, but overall I'd say that playing an Assassin now is more fun and more rewarding than playing a Ranger.But, to each their own.

[Ezariel]

I play an assassin.  One of my best friends is a ranger.  We have equal gear and ad3 combat arts.  We group together often and I parse damage on every group.  I am always at the top of the parse no matter what classes we invite to join our xp/loot sessions.  The ranger is always at the bottom even though she is great player and tries her hardest.  Do you want to be a dps king or the guy that only gets invites to groups because they just couldn't find anyone else?  

[Computer MAn]

I will just post my opinions from a raid perspective because thats all I really do. Rangers need a good bow (Sarnak and LBOC) and tier 8 Ammo to really shine. An Assassin can still do good DPS without the best weapons in the game. A good Ranger can parse well (read good)they just need to know where to stand and what order to do things. Rangers it seems are also more dependant of group setup but get them a decent group and they can make me work to stay ahead. Granted the Assassin will usually win unless its an AE target or my stealth attacks arent back up from the last trash mob but Rangers are far from the gimped class they are made out to be. To wrap it all up a Ranger seems to be more group dependant and needs a good bow and Ammo to shine.

[whytakemine]

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swiftness wrote:

As for neither being able to solo, I do just fine soloing, just know your limit and really try to connect with the class. It will be frustrating at times, and seem like you are somewhat of a glass cannon....but I assure you if you play right you will be like a FMJ bullet ripping through things.

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Have you ever solo'd with a wizzie/warlock/necro/conj/coercer/monk/bruiser?  If not, you can't really claim we solo well. I've played 3 of the classes I just listed, and killing even con ^^^'s ranges from easy to doable.  Solo'ing ^^^ named are relatively easy on mage classes, and doable with brawlers.What's the last ^^^ named you solo'd as an assassin?  Cheap shot will let you get off ONE back attack, and our dps goes to [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] if we can't use our positional attacks.   What we can solo well are non-heroics, which is kind of nice if you're doing writs I guess. 

[Kinvore]

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Tasye wrote:I quit playing my Ranger after the big nerf, and betrayed to Assassin when SOE revamped the betrayal quest.

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Rangers weren't nerfed, they were fixed.  The amount of damage they were making was far out of line from what the rest of us were making.  But that's the topic for another thread. Pouncer70 Assassin

[Jayad]

IMO, having raided with both a 70 ranger and 70 assassin (after betrayal), I think they are both equally group and gear dependent.  The assassin, however, can get their DWs more easily than the Ranger can get their bows.  And to boot, rangers require TWO rare bows to do their best.  (If rare arrow summoning isn't duplicated)

However I think zone-wide assassins are still somewhat ahead, but not a giant amount.  I'm not sure what effect full EOF AAs will have yet.

If your rangers are parsing last in your groups, well, they're doing something wrong.    A good ranger in a group should be in the ballpark of assassins, wizards, necros, conjs, warlocks, swashies, etc. most of the time.

Oddly enough, I have a really hard time getting haste buffs on our raids, but am often with the dirge, which just rocks.

p.s. how high have people had their raid-buffed str?  I'm usually around 800.  I'm wondering what it's like at 900 and 1000.

Message Edited by Xney on 11-23-2006 12:09 PM

[HazNpho]

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whytakemine wrote:

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swiftness wrote:

As for neither being able to solo, I do just fine soloing, just know your limit and really try to connect with the class. It will be frustrating at times, and seem like you are somewhat of a glass cannon....but I assure you if you play right you will be like a FMJ bullet ripping through things.

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Have you ever solo'd with a wizzie/warlock/necro/conj/coercer/monk/bruiser?  If not, you can't really claim we solo well. I've played 3 of the classes I just listed, and killing even con ^^^'s ranges from easy to doable.  Solo'ing ^^^ named are relatively easy on mage classes, and doable with brawlers.What's the last ^^^ named you solo'd as an assassin?  Cheap shot will let you get off ONE back attack, and our dps goes to [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] if we can't use our positional attacks.   What we can solo well are non-heroics, which is kind of nice if you're doing writs I guess. 

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I disagree, at least about being able to solo heroics, yeah it took me a while to get used to the changes since EoF, but I'm finally able to solo white ^^^'s cons again, if its solo, one on one, mono et mono. Just hit stealth, use your your highest hitting stealth attack, if the mob can see you, rush them while spamming the CA. You should, if you do it right, be able to hit him with the CA before he has time to react, remember, it takes a second for them to see you and another second for them to finally attack and break your stealth. While your still running hit them with your moor line. Then as your comming back into the fight use Cheap shot, run back past em while your doing it, if you time it right, your right on top of them when you do it and can cast cripple split seconds after you get behind them, then as they are already slowed you may be able to get off your one of your positional arrow attacks, if not no biggie. Run back in use the numbing strike line, move back or keep going forward, and use your 2 shot (I have that CA linked with my improvised weapon line, so as they are running back at you, you still get one more hit). Now rely on mark and your highest to lowest close range melee attacks. If cheap shot or numbing strike come back up before you finish combat repeat whichever step listed above that matches it.Normally with this way of fighting I can drop anything from a white down, sometimes yellow's. And if I'm grouped I still use this to deal with adds on the healer, or to get something off the MT quick and allow the healer a little reprieve if we have too much hitting him.One other thing I have noticed, some of your CA's have a range that is just outside of melee distance for mobs and you, but this works well if you have a rooting poison in effect, when doing this I can solo a yellow without a problem. Haven't tried an orange yet.

[TerriBlades]

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Kinvore wrote:

Rangers weren't nerfed, they were fixed.  The amount of damage they were making was far out of line from what the rest of us were making.  But that's the topic for another thread.



Pouncer
70 Assassin

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Guess that shows how much you know. Rangers weren't fixed, the proc mechanic was fixed and at the time procs accounted for over 1/2 of Ranger DPS. You did get one part right. This is a topic for another thread.

I believe Cochy has it dead on. For rangers to put up decent numbers they need a high DR bow, and T8 ammo. I wouldnt say we are heavily gear dependent, but its not like Sarnak, LBoC, Bazkul and or Ichorstrands are falling out of the sky. Group makeup also plays a big role. Assassin self buff DPS, Rangers self buff Haste. That said, rangers and assassins require different group make up. I've seen quite a few more Haste items in game then I have DPS items I hope they fix this with EoF.

Rangers can solo just fine.

Even poorly geared Rangers shouldnt be parsing anywhere near the bottom of the list. If thats the case, its best you find yourself a new ranger.

[t0gar]

another thing... rangers CA's are slow casts. If they're to par with you in a group parse you're just not killing fast enough. While all of our casts are practically instant, they have to wait a second or 2 before theirs goes off. This is fine for raids since the fights are generally long, but in groups they just can't attack fast enough to keep up. Imagine all of your CA's taking as long as your bow attacks... you'd miss out on a lot of CA's in group situations.

[griffit]

Played ranger 1-63.    Betrayed to assassin at 63.   The difference?Assassins primarily melee dps with the occassional range attack.Rangers primarily range dps with the occassional melee attack.In order to do the best dps as a ranger you will need a fabled bow which are tricky drops to get (for some people they get it their first time, others farm it for months).  A ranger will need to joust in more and use melee in order to maintain consistent dps.   Our sole raiding ranger just got his fabled bow and is doing quite well dps wise, placing consistently in the top four.    Rangers solo well because they can have a mob half dead before they even reach them, that along with a stun + stealth attack and then a root + range equals fights that end quickly with little health lost.     Also important to note than rangers have a buff that cuts aggro by X%.Assassins needs a little more stringent positioning.   Also have to be careful of positioning when fighting AE mobs but that really isn't as bad as it seems.    Raid wise all our assassins do quite well.    Assassins do well on long drawn out fights thanks to having more DOT spells.    Assassins solo well however they are not quite as good as rangers, mainly because rangers fair better against mobs that can see through stealth.

[Squigglle]

ya well my ranger is already in betrayel lol. i have grouped with scouts lower then me with even gear and they all out dps me. and plus assasins lurk within the shadows. oh and! they got the awsome relic.

[TwistedFaith]

Ranger highend DPS is dependant upon getting a VERY rare bow (sarnak etc) and also another VERY rare bow to summon t8 arrows.If they have both of those and know how to play their class they can put out some great numbers, just below a assasin i'd say.Assasins require 2 duel wields which are a hell of a lot easier to find. They also dont have to spend anywhere near as much money on arrows as rangers.Make of that what you will, i'm far more impressed if I see a ranger with a uber fabled bow and t8 ammo then yet another run of the mill assasin with two duel wields from the labs.

[Crychtonn]

Answer is to dependant on the situation really.

 

For example in solo'ing:  Outdoor a ranger is superior to an assassin.  While indoor in enclosed area with little room an assassin is better.

 

For grouping:  Depends on the group and the pulling rate.  Assassins big hitters have longer recast then ranger skills.  Fast pulling will even them out overall.  Where slow pulling will make the assassin shine.

 

For raiding:  Both are very weapon dependant.  In KoS it was much easier for an assassin to get equipted then a ranger.  In EoF there have already been two new high end bow found out of EH.  So it looks like it rangers will have an easier time then they did in the past.  But that's still on a wait and see basis.

 

As far as overall DPS that also is a wait and see item.  Until a good portion of ranger and assassin get to 100 AA's and experiment with them we'll we know.

 

 

PS - To the person that said rangers can't solo well.  I can mow through the named in Bonemire faster and easier on my ranger then on my conjuror.  And no it's not because I suck on my conj.  I kill them faster then all the plat farming wizards, conjurors and necro's I see also.

 

[Beneld]

ok im a ranger in my guild the only thing that out parses me are you stinkin assassians (this is befor EoF) as i havent been able to log in in past month but i have wurm destroyer bow without T8 arrows and with my plan for my EoF aas i have good hope that my dps will improve when i get T8 arrows and a fabled long bow T7 95+ DR i still used to give assassians a run for their money the assassians and me in the guild are about the same gear and master wise im 24/32 masters but i truely believe once i get bow T8 arrows and all my EoF aas and a few select pieces of gear im still looking at ill be passing assassians in dps