higher teir arrows being summoned? better idea

Redit · 03-03-2005, 07:39 AM

i think that it would be unfair to woodworkers for rangers to just be abled to summon up higher tier arrows, but i also feel its unfair for rangers to buy our dps so i came up with an idea. we get summoned arrows for every level, but player made arrows do extra damage, and a noticable amount aof damage also. i already quit my ranger but it would be fun to play again if they didnt suck

Sirlutt · 03-03-2005, 11:25 PM

i think thats the general idea that most of us agree on. We need to be able to summon acceptable arrows to maintain a reasonable amount of DPS and not have to mortgage queynos castle to do it.. but i think player crafted arrows should definately be the top in terms of damage and desirability.something along the lines of:* feyiron arrow = 100 damage* make shift feyiron arrow = 150 damage* crafted shaped feyiron arrow = 150 damage* crafted feyiron arrow = 175 damage* crafted pristine feyiron arrow = 225 damagenumbers are just for illustative purposes.

Arisar · 03-04-2005, 12:36 PM

I think we need some serious figures on how many woodworkers are depedent on arrows for a serious income or majority of their income. If there are a lot out there yes we need to be fair to them, if it's more a case of sure they have the recipe but it's usually too much of a pain to bother the scales surely have to tilt in our favour. They're an essential part of our subclass afterall...

Teler · 03-04-2005, 01:08 PM

To be honest, Arrows should rather be made a little more important to tank classes than to have the change described above.

Reason for me saying that is: Class Balance. We will allways be balanced against the best combination of gear available, since, if we don't get balanced around using the best commonly available, we might become overbalanced if balanced around our summoned arrows, or still be underbalanced when balanced around the playermade arrows.

Why would we be overbalanced if balanced around our summoned arrows?

The rich Rangers and the Rangers who happen to have chosen Woodworker as TS and maxed it would still have access to tons of the playermade top quality arrows. And thus they would outdamage about everyone by an assumingly unfairly high margin. Other offensive classes would rightfully call for nerfs for us or upgrades for them, they for sure couldn't be called balanced against us. As history shows the scale would swing into their favor, leaving Rangers subpar again.

Why would we still be underbalanced when balanced around the playermade arrows?

Basically nothing would change compared to now. The Rangers who are not able to efford playermade arrows would still do subpar DPS and would have to pay a lot to get to where they are intended to be on the DPS side.

Then one has to consider that it cannot be that an entire Artisan Subclass has only two Adventurer Subclasses as main customer. Each Outfitter, Craftsman and Scholar Subclasses have far more each.

So, my suggested solution to the issue would be to...

Make Arrows more important to Warrior and Knight Subclasses, e.g. by adding the bow/arrow range to their Taunt skills. That way they would have a longer range to Taunt and have the damage agro added upfront.
Give something along the lines of Endless Quiver to Predators (or just to Rangers, and Endless Vial to Assassins, or some mix of those skills for all Scout Subclasses, whatever) with Woodworker being able to produce un-consumable Lore arrows for us, adding such arrows to mob loot tables and quest reward tables as well.
Or introduce a Makeshift Arrow skill per tier that returns tierbased arrows and have Rip return Feyiron arrows (one per skill level, i.e. 1 at Apprentice 1, 5 at Adept 1), have Tear return Fulginate arrows (also one per skill level, i.e. 1 at Apprentice 1, 5 at Adept 1, and so on)

There is no justification that Scouts, and especially Predators have to pay for their DPS while the DPS is not topend (comparisons with similar levels, gear, skill levels of course). It is hard enough to accept that we have to buy poisons to get our DPS closer to where it is intended to be, which derives from a nerf and a quickshot solution (the introduction of poisons) in the last week of Beta before release of the game. Forcing us to buy Poisons AND Arrows while other classes outdo us easily without having to buy Anything to do so, is just plain unfair!

Johnd · 03-04-2005, 03:01 PM

A somewhat bigger change .. but not undoable.

Make the ripped arrows hit for lets say 90%.

The bought arrows ( shop ) hit for like 94%.

The crafted arrows hit for 97%

The summoned ( ripped ) arrows have a chance of 90% basic. But crafters can make us a new type ( new item in the recipe ) for the feathers. And if we combine that feather with our ripped arrows we hit for 100% ( use your bow skill for this process and can be done "hot" in the field )

This would fit in the story line. Cause then you have the ranger ( field experience ) with the crafter ( craftsmanship ) work together to make the perfect arrow for the ranger.

Also ripping a perfect arrow from a monster, sounds kinda illogic to me.

More fun would be passing the arrows to the crafter, but I suppose the ripped arrows are no-drop.

The 10% miss rate ( compared to how you shoot now ) would be a not to huge loss on the damage, but you will notice it.

Without killing the rangers power you do get a second tought on buying your arrows.

Ofcourse the percentages can be adjusted, cause I can't test this a lot nor do I have historical data on hits. But I am pretty sure a very well balance can be found by SoE.

eman · 03-05-2005, 03:36 AM

Sucks we have to buy our dps....I think that warlock's should have 1 silver deducted each tick on there dot's from there toon and that for each hit a wizard hits for over 100 they should also get 1 silver deducted...lol I bet they would whine for that..the difference is that SOE would actually prolly fix that...ARG the life of a ranger...

03-03-2005, 11:25 PM	#2
Sirlutt Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,149	i think thats the general idea that most of us agree on. We need to be able to summon acceptable arrows to maintain a reasonable amount of DPS and not have to mortgage queynos castle to do it.. but i think player crafted arrows should definately be the top in terms of damage and desirability.something along the lines of:* feyiron arrow = 100 damage* make shift feyiron arrow = 150 damage* crafted shaped feyiron arrow = 150 damage* crafted feyiron arrow = 175 damage* crafted pristine feyiron arrow = 225 damagenumbers are just for illustative purposes. __________________ I heart DE Broads

03-04-2005, 01:08 PM	#4
Teler Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 75	To be honest, Arrows should rather be made a little more important to tank classes than to have the change described above. Reason for me saying that is: Class Balance. We will allways be balanced against the best combination of gear available, since, if we don't get balanced around using the best commonly available, we might become overbalanced if balanced around our summoned arrows, or still be underbalanced when balanced around the playermade arrows. Why would we be overbalanced if balanced around our summoned arrows? The rich Rangers and the Rangers who happen to have chosen Woodworker as TS and maxed it would still have access to tons of the playermade top quality arrows. And thus they would outdamage about everyone by an assumingly unfairly high margin. Other offensive classes would rightfully call for nerfs for us or upgrades for them, they for sure couldn't be called balanced against us. As history shows the scale would swing into their favor, leaving Rangers subpar again. Why would we still be underbalanced when balanced around the playermade arrows? Basically nothing would change compared to now. The Rangers who are not able to efford playermade arrows would still do subpar DPS and would have to pay a lot to get to where they are intended to be on the DPS side. Then one has to consider that it cannot be that an entire Artisan Subclass has only two Adventurer Subclasses as main customer. Each Outfitter, Craftsman and Scholar Subclasses have far more each. So, my suggested solution to the issue would be to... Make Arrows more important to Warrior and Knight Subclasses, e.g. by adding the bow/arrow range to their Taunt skills. That way they would have a longer range to Taunt and have the damage agro added upfront. Give something along the lines of Endless Quiver to Predators (or just to Rangers, and Endless Vial to Assassins, or some mix of those skills for all Scout Subclasses, whatever) with Woodworker being able to produce un-consumable Lore arrows for us, adding such arrows to mob loot tables and quest reward tables as well. Or introduce a Makeshift Arrow skill per tier that returns tierbased arrows and have Rip return Feyiron arrows (one per skill level, i.e. 1 at Apprentice 1, 5 at Adept 1), have Tear return Fulginate arrows (also one per skill level, i.e. 1 at Apprentice 1, 5 at Adept 1, and so on) There is no justification that Scouts, and especially Predators have to pay for their DPS while the DPS is not topend (comparisons with similar levels, gear, skill levels of course). It is hard enough to accept that we have to buy poisons to get our DPS closer to where it is intended to be, which derives from a nerf and a quickshot solution (the introduction of poisons) in the last week of Beta before release of the game. Forcing us to buy Poisons AND Arrows while other classes outdo us easily without having to buy Anything to do so, is just plain unfair! __________________

03-03-2005, 07:39 AM	#1
Redit Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 4	i think that it would be unfair to woodworkers for rangers to just be abled to summon up higher tier arrows, but i also feel its unfair for rangers to buy our dps so i came up with an idea. we get summoned arrows for every level, but player made arrows do extra damage, and a noticable amount aof damage also. i already quit my ranger but it would be fun to play again if they didnt suck

03-04-2005, 12:36 PM	#3
Arisar Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 23	I think we need some serious figures on how many woodworkers are depedent on arrows for a serious income or majority of their income. If there are a lot out there yes we need to be fair to them, if it's more a case of sure they have the recipe but it's usually too much of a pain to bother the scales surely have to tilt in our favour. They're an essential part of our subclass afterall...

03-04-2005, 03:01 PM	#5
Johnd Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 39	A somewhat bigger change .. but not undoable. Make the ripped arrows hit for lets say 90%. The bought arrows ( shop ) hit for like 94%. The crafted arrows hit for 97% The summoned ( ripped ) arrows have a chance of 90% basic. But crafters can make us a new type ( new item in the recipe ) for the feathers. And if we combine that feather with our ripped arrows we hit for 100% ( use your bow skill for this process and can be done "hot" in the field ) This would fit in the story line. Cause then you have the ranger ( field experience ) with the crafter ( craftsmanship ) work together to make the perfect arrow for the ranger. Also ripping a perfect arrow from a monster, sounds kinda illogic to me. More fun would be passing the arrows to the crafter, but I suppose the ripped arrows are no-drop. The 10% miss rate ( compared to how you shoot now ) would be a not to huge loss on the damage, but you will notice it. Without killing the rangers power you do get a second tought on buying your arrows. Ofcourse the percentages can be adjusted, cause I can't test this a lot nor do I have historical data on hits. But I am pretty sure a very well balance can be found by SoE.

03-05-2005, 03:36 AM	#6
eman Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 15	Sucks we have to buy our dps....I think that warlock's should have 1 silver deducted each tick on there dot's from there toon and that for each hit a wizard hits for over 100 they should also get 1 silver deducted...lol I bet they would whine for that..the difference is that SOE would actually prolly fix that...ARG the life of a ranger...