Ranger Class Suggestions

[Ren]

       Ok, I am starting this thread to get the ball rolling on changes that we collectivly should get changed with the Ranger Class and make them a more viable class. Lets please keep this nice and clean, and show the Devs that we are serious about hoping we can get these changes. 

 

 

 1.) Lower the cost of arrows, crafted and merchant if possible. There are alot of post about the current cost of arrows, from producing them, to merchant cost. I personally use a TON of arrows when I am out leveling, however, Rip keeps me with a pretty steady stream of arrows. However, later down the road, Feyiron arrows, aren't worth it, they just don't cut the mustard in damage at later levels, now if our upgrade to Rip, Tear gave us Fulginate arrows, our arrow worries would be a thing of the past, currently, at 3g a stack, thats alot, considering how fast we go through arrows. On the hand player crafted higher end arrows at cost, would run you 80g at cost for a set of 1k, which I can and do use in a long session of grinding. They should seriously maybe make the crafting process cheaper and easier to do, currently it is not worthwhile, EQ1, the fletching system was pretty solid.

 

2.) I would absolutly love to see some high-end bows added, Pristine Cedar Longbows are good but not outstanding, not too mention they require a rare to make, etc, but some decent quest bows would be fantastic, a heritage quest bow would be even better, such as the Trueshot Longbow.

 

3.) Fixing agility and balancing it out is also a high priority, also maybe adding a damage reduction to medium also would be good too. Considering that Light and Heavy are getting it, give some love to the chain classes as well, because right now, I am paperdoll with the agility being as is.

 

4.) Also an outdoor sneak, that goes at our normal movement speed, it seems every scout class except us, has this luxery, if we don't include or specialized training. Dungeons slow speed is just fine for me personally, but being that we are "outdoorsy" it would make traversing a large, unexplored zone, alot more feasable and effiecient.

 

5.) We all know about the abilities that don't work, so I am sure the devs are working on them, but I would like to see some of our skills tweaked abit, such as Hidden Shot, for something that needs to be stealthed and has High Damage in the description, it does absolutly minimal damage it seems, Tear should give Fulginate Arrows and outdamage Rip, Raven Embers would be extremely useful if it had a DoT on it, like the Faerie Fire specialization.  Blade Flurry needs to not break Mezzes, I have personally never had this happen to me, but I have seen reports of it.

 

6.) Poison Resist for lvl 40-50 mobs need to be lowered, currently landing it, seems to be an impossible feat, and that crushes our DPS, being a scout class, I would expect to outdamage any other class except for Mage classes, and be on par with all other Scout classes.

 

7.) Also the power cost at late levels should be addressed, bow skills require too much power and dont become worth it a later levels, so lowering it would truly help and make our Bows a more viable weapon. I personally at the moment don't run into power problems because I use a PGT and Refreshing Bumblebee drink, however, I do not plan on using a PGT to make up for lost power later levels, its still effective, but there is better stuff out there, such as an SBD and SSoY.

 

 

 

 If anyone else has any input onto what we think could be done to better our class, fix current problems, or any general input or ideas, please feel free to post it, lets just keep it clean and civil and maybe we can get a good response from the Devs on these issues.

 

Thank You,

 Sicarii Dragonscar

 

 

 

Sorry about the triple post, computer kinda lagged on me... My apologies

Message Edited by Rents on 02-15-2005 01:14 PM

Message Edited by Rents on 02-15-2005 01:22 PM

[Ren]

/bumping, hopefully we can get some more insight on this and possible changes, considering how hard some of you pushed the AQ armor color issue, maybe changes deeper things might be possible.

[Moussacoy]

Altering ALL bow spells/arts/knowledges so that you can use them on the run!! Open shot is GREAT, because I use it when I backpedal... wounding shot is USELESS because I have to be stationary.

 

Remember, these are COMBAT ABILITIES and Rangers are meant for MOBILITY. Why is it that I can use my flanking backstab arts three to four times in the time it takes for my Open-shot ability to recharge? Aren't I supposed to be something special with a bow?

 

Also, make impede a little more potent. Raise the recast timer, halve the duration if you have to, but make the spell actually work!! Slowing a screaming eagle down by 25% doesn't really make that much of a difference. Slow them down enough... even for a shorter period of time... just so we Rangers can get back into range without having to blindly scramble our way through an aggro zone.

 

Do this and Impede will become an actually useful skill IMHO. It might even outweigh Escape as a means of bailing out of an encounter.

[Absinth]

4.) Also an outdoor sneak, that goes at our normal movement speed, it seems every scout class except us, has this luxery, if we don't include or specialized training. Dungeons slow speed is just fine for me personally, but being that we are "outdoorsy" it would make traversing a large, unexplored zone, alot more feasable and effiecient.

 

I hate to mention it, but we have that. It's one of the training abilities you could pick at 20 I think. Hagar's camoflauge or some such. It's nearly a full speed stealth.

[Aringi]

Aye, I chose Hagar's Camo and use it exclusively as my sneak. It is just below full speed so not that far off and I believe it comes as Adept or Master 1 level.I would also like to see a Trueshot Longbow Quest, possibly may come with a Faydwer expansion.

Message Edited by Aringill on 02-16-2005 08:26 AM

[Ren]

      I am quite aware of Hager's Camoflauge, I used it forever, however, post level 35ish, most mobs can see through it, so you start using Huntsman's Trap pretty exclusivly. I have it at Adept, and at lvl 35, almost nothing in Rivervale, save for the Scout Class mobs, can see through my invis. which is fine and well, since Rivervale isn't all too big in its size, however travesersing larger zones, say, Everfrost or the Feerrott, that crawl speed takes a long while.

 

Also bow skills at higher levels doesn't require too many stationary moves, sniping shot, triple shot, flamming shot, are all from a moving bases. If you think about it, it makes sense, we are starting to learn our weapons, and they become more attuned with our bodies as we level, so firing a bow, on the run for example, becomes second nature.

Message Edited by Rents on 02-16-2005 11:24 AM

[Ren]

/bump Really dont want this topic to die :/

[sysr]

I waited until the 40 specialized training to pick the cloak speed, and it is equivalent to level 52 stealth. So it doesnt get outdone by stalk prey which is somewhere around 47-48 cloak. Think it is Holly's stalking trap.

[tetal]

I agree

Our moving with stealth should pick up speed with levels and going from APP level to Adp-master ect.

 

I would also love to see our pets have carrying slots, and maybe able to do trades with other PC's on the server would be cool, or make it able to agro Mobs.

 

I would like someing done with arrows, ether make them cheaper, better makeshift arrows, or better yields on arrow componets.

 

I would also love to see an upgrade to path finding, or have Jboots stack with it.

(Non Combat stacking)

 

I would also like to see more dual hand weapons.

This list is pretty short on these and you tend to go grey on your weapons way to fast.

 

Also adding some dual weld wepons that proc would be nice.

 

I would also like to see posions not go grey till your at the next posion level.

Really sucks have to wait 3 to 4 level so you can get an affective posion.

 

I would really love to type with out typos to, but some things are just asking to much.

 

 

Tetalon

 

 

 

[Ren]

More Dual Wield weapons would be pretty nice, every ranger seems almost cookie cutter when it comes to the weapons at endgame, Neecha made a good point about that awhile back. I think the SSoY, SBD is pretty standard now, however, I would like to see what kind of Epic Mob, artifact weapons drop in time, although they would be hard to get unless your in a future or current uber guild. It just seems that the really "good" stuff is hard to come by, because of the prices right now, it seems only really high lvl crafters have the amazing gear since they do have the money to burn on those kinds of items, but I am sure stuff like that will change in time, as the economy evolves more and more.

[Berak]

I think now with the new patch they need to put our agi back to the way it was. As it stands now postpatch we are not as effective as we were before.

 I also like the idea of a near full speed stealth since as rangers we specialize in being able to move quickly in the outdoors without being seen.

[Enoch100]

• All skills with a Bow needs the damage increased.
• A lot of our recast timers need revisited... they are just TOO long. I have to switch between hidden shot and sniping shot a lot when chain-pulling.
• Our ability to kite is just fine, I have no issues soloing yellows.
• Our stealthed run speed sucks. I'm sorry, but a ranger should be incredible at moving quickly and quietly.
• An ability for us to see routes of patrols. For example, you want to see where Mob XXX patrols in Zek. You use this ability while having them targeted and you will see their route highlighted by wisps.
• Change a lot of our "Ranged" specials to debuffs. A lot of our skills say "a ranged attack that..." while skills of the assassin says "an attack that... and debuffs the target's...".
• Change our movement speed debuffs to something more... useful. Considering a lot of things don't run away in combat in this game, the movement speed debuffs are pretty useless.
• If we are to take second seat to the Assassin, give us better utility. Right now, if I was another player and had to choose between a ranger and an assassin, I would choose the assassin because of a lot of their abilities will debuff the target's resistances to certain attacks making the group's DPS higher.
• Any flaming art should do a DoT.
• How bout critical shots with bows? Some sort of chance similar to EQ1's ranger ability. Higher chance with Rangers to critical.
• Ranger Bow abilities should be debilitating. I think this is pretty similar to debuffing but there should be something said about the ability to disable an opponent's hand. "Your enemy cannot push the button if you disable his hand." - Starship Troopers. *grin*
• In-Zone ports, sure, pathfinding is nice cuz it makes the group run faster... but hell, every scout can do that. What if we had In-Zone ports (4 to a zone) that would allow us to transport group members close to us (a la Escape) to one of 4 locations. You would only need 4 skills (port 1, port 2, port 3, port 4) and each port location is different for each zone. For example, Antonica could be NQ Gate, Windstalker Village, Sir Jargen (or whatever his name is in the south) and that dwarf near BlackBurrow. However, when you zone to TS, it would be Antonica, Docks, Tower 3, and thundermist village. *shrug* Just a thought. Long shot but... I'm brainstorming.
• I don't mind the inability to take damage. So, I personally think our armor and AC is just fine.
• I am incredibly disappointed with our damage output and usefulness in a group. What is scary is that if I do not use a poison and my friend (who is a swashbuckler) does not use a poison, I am sometimes outdamaged by him. This is a sad thing considering his utility-based abilities (I love freeboot).
• One way you can increase our usefulness would be to add some sort of mez effect to a ranged shot... Like an art called Pin. We pin the targets hand to the ground or something with an arrow. *shrug*
• Enhanced track, perhaps allow us to track resource nodes as well (although, this will probably be exploited like mad, so make it a higher level ability).

Anyway, I'm done for now.

 

-Naissur, Neriak Server

[Tyrambethio]

Ok.. I usually don't involve myself on such topics.  And I am definelty not one of the people who think the Ranger has been nerferd so much that they are "not fun to play."    The only issue I have with the Ranger is soloing.     My friend has a conjuror and can practically tank with his familiar.. it's ridicules.   But, the Ranger can't solo at all really.   He is lvl 24 and can kill Yellows no problem.   Now, the problem with the Ranger is most the high damage attacks are from the back.   So, I propose a new Ranger spell that keeps the creature still for a few seconds so that the Ranger and do a few back attacks.    This could be something along the lines how Petrify works for the Conjuror.   If this was in place for the Ranger I would have no problems what-so-ever with the class.

 

 

 

One last point.  

 

  I don't understand these huge lists of things that people want to change about the Ranger.    Let's keep things in prospective here.  Lets not name everything that comes into our heads.    

Message Edited by Tyrambethio on 02-18-2005 08:45 AM

[Ren]

Hrm, I forgot to add one thing, I would positivly love to see Rangers able to track red mobs.. We are rangers, we are supposed to be top dogs at tracking, but it seems every scout class can track just as well as us, seems we were robbed of something that we were pretty exclusive at in EQ1, sure some other classes were able to track, but not to the extent of the Ranger, why give us the ability to filter out Red con mobs, if we can't see them in the first place.

[Kyriel]

dont use the slash bump thing, is only gonna get it lock , the right way to keep this on top and popular is to let the ranger community post freely, and seriously the slash bump is gonna get it locked.

[Enoch100]

Zemfira - curious, I haven't seen any /bumps *boggle*

Rents - another good suggestion. It is a bit frustrating. Although, we do get a trait or something that allows us to track "5 levels higher" or something like that *shrug*.

Tyrambethio - Honestly, soloing is one of the easiest things I can do. I use to go to Zek and solo the Grunts there which, at the time conned White and Yellow to me. Yellows rarely got me down in the orange. Now, mind you, I had to do some fair kiting and power burning so that when I went melee the mob was in the orange already. But, it wasn't bad at all. Better then most of my friends are able to say.

My biggest gripe with the ranger is a lack of class-defining role in a group situation. Solo content is nice and all, but I don't play EQ2 to play alone...

---

Tyrambethio wrote:

 

One last point.  

 

  I don't understand these huge lists of things that people want to change about the Ranger.    Let's keep things in prospective here.  Lets not name everything that comes into our heads.    

---

If you don't then you'll never be heard. Sorry, but you're silly to think that no one is going to make a list of items they want to see changed. Sure, I brainstormed a bit out of the box, but these are... ahem... SUGGESTIONS (which is the point of this post)... and I wanted them to be voiced.

 

Now, if you disagree with my suggestions... then disagree... explain why and we can discuss it. *shrug* Or is this more an attention issue?

 

-Naissur, Neriak

[Tyrambethio]

I feel like we are more likely to be heard on a fair number of suggestions then lets say 50 different suggestions.

 

 

Mabye a better idea is to prioritize everyone's ideas... that way we can put a level of importance on them.

Message Edited by Tyrambethio on 02-18-2005 12:58 PM

[Menl]

Everything suggested ahead of this post seems much more important, but I would like them to fix the poison stacking issue.  Seems like only one is going off per fight still...........

[Ren]

What is the name of the trait that lets us track 5 levels higher? I know, I took Tolans Talent, instead of Hager's camoflauge, considering it is almost worthless at my lvl (thank you /respec), and it raises my track skill 10 points, and its especially handy stacked with Forester's Insight. But that still doesn't let me track Red mobs, is this trait race specific? I know the Iksar definatly dont get it.  Tracking red mobs would be beyond fantastic though, that would definatly make my day, seeing something like that initiate..

 

I read about someone saying Trueshot bow for maybe the Faydwer Expansion, however, the Trueshot NPC is in Willowwood, but, that would make sense, him wanting to go back to his perinial homelands to find a lost art or something of that nature. I almost consider the Stormfire the Ranger Heritage bow atm, considering how long and painful of a quest it is. Thanks for all the input thus far guys, hopefully the Devs will read this forum.. Was actually talking to a GM yesterday, things do look promising for us, if we give it time, etc

[MistDragon]

Some very good ideas here,       I personally would like to see my Trueshot Longbow again.

[Araze]

Most important issues imo:

 

• Cost of arrows / Upgrade Tear to summon fulginate
• Sneak speed
• Fix spells that are broken

Not critical, but would like to see it worked on:

• Our tracking abilities should be superioer to all
• Run speed outdoor (!) should be superior
• Make agi count more to DPS output
• Superior Bow (make it heritage for all i care)

I love the ranger, but right now, if you wanna be wanted and want to do DPS - assassin is the way to go. There are no differences between us other than we have to be on ranged attack - and they have higher DPS output in general.

 

 

 

[faranth]

RANGED HO!

 

thank you

[MistDragon]

---

Arazeth wrote:

Most important issues imo:

 

• Cost of arrows / Upgrade Tear to summon fulginate
• Sneak speed
• Fix spells that are broken

Not critical, but would like to see it worked on:

• Our tracking abilities should be superioer to all
• Run speed outdoor (!) should be superior
• Make agi count more to DPS output
• Superior Bow (make it heritage for all i care)

I love the ranger, but right now, if you wanna be wanted and want to do DPS - assassin is the way to go. There are no differences between us other than we have to be on ranged attack - and they have higher DPS output in general.

 

 

 

---

Very good suggestions,  I really like the part I highlited . 

[Kyriel]

lol enoch u are blind mah ranger brotha read every post and u;ll see a couple, anyways to the Op put a consolidated tittle forum and try sending  a pm to blackguard with the link so he can know its there and hopefully pass it along.

[Enoch100]

---

Zemfira wrote:

lol enoch u are blind mah ranger brotha read every post and u;ll see a couple, anyways to the Op put a consolidated tittle forum and try sending  a pm to blackguard with the link so he can know its there and hopefully pass it along.

---

 

 

I have no idea why I didn't see those /bumps before. I swear they weren't there. I stand corrected.

[BuddhaM]

kinda on topic, but I just dinged a few lvls this week, and got Foresters Insite. I also took Tolen's Talent for my /respec. I don't know if this was different a week ago, but as of today they share the same re-use timer. Did not check if they stack the agi bonus, but is everyone else getting this problem of the re-use timer? It is a long one, so I am not sure how these two spells can affective stack.....Figured I would mention this as it may be something that needs fixed, or that was "changed" in recent patch....Or it could just be me. Known to happen.

[stainremov]

---

tetalon wrote:

I agree

Our moving with stealth should pick up speed with levels and going from APP level to Adp-master ect.

I would also love to see our pets have carrying slots, and maybe able to do trades with other PC's on the server would be cool, or make it able to agro Mobs.

I would like someing done with arrows, ether make them cheaper, better makeshift arrows, or better yields on arrow componets.

I would also love to see an upgrade to path finding, or have Jboots stack with it.

(Non Combat stacking)

I would also like to see more dual hand weapons.

This list is pretty short on these and you tend to go grey on your weapons way to fast.

Also adding some dual weld wepons that proc would be nice.

I would also like to see posions not go grey till your at the next posion level.

Really sucks have to wait 3 to 4 level so you can get an affective posion.

I would really love to type with out typos to, but some things are just asking to much.

Tetalon

---

there's a solution to your poison problem. it's called pc poisons. once the npc poisons grey out to you, you can start using pc poison of the next tier. (ex: catacomb sludge greys out at around 27. so after that start using the pc t4 poison). also, all pc poisons have a requirement of 1, and a mastery of some number based off of tier. makes it convenient. pc poisons have extra charges too. so paying 15s for a t4 poison is not more expensive than npc (although you will be hard pressed to find one going for that much). wait for more alchemists to figure it out.

[BuddhaM]

just made a huge post about that poison cost thing on the alchy forum. Called it "Price Check..." might want to see if there are any honest responses to the question: "why am I asked to pay over 1gold for a t3 poison?"Either this will help "bridge the gap" or I will get 1*'d so many times my rating will never come back up.

[stainremov]

---

Tyrambethio wrote:

Ok.. I usually don't involve myself on such topics. And I am definelty not one of the people who think the Ranger has been nerferd so much that they are "not fun to play." The only issue I have with the Ranger is soloing. My friend has a conjuror and can practically tank with his familiar.. it's ridicules. But, the Ranger can't solo at all really. He is lvl 24 and can kill Yellows no problem. Now, the problem with the Ranger is most the high damage attacks are from the back. So, I propose a new Ranger spell that keeps the creature still for a few seconds so that the Ranger and do a few back attacks. This could be something along the lines how Petrify works for the Conjuror. If this was in place for the Ranger I would have no problems what-so-ever with the class.

One last point.

I don't understand these huge lists of things that people want to change about the Ranger. Let's keep things in prospective here. Lets not name everything that comes into our heads.

Message Edited by Tyrambethio on 02-18-2005 08:45 AM

---

it's called cheap shot. make sure to turn off your melee. you get it as a scout.as for the person who wonders why we can filter reds of we can't track them. it's because guards usually con red for a while. and you can always track them, so being able to filter them is convenient imo.

[hieronym]

when using makeshift or rip what ever arrow you have in your slot at the time will then have the extra arrows added. Nothing worse than running out of arrows mid fight then messing about finding your stacks and equipping them.