Suggestion for AA Sub Class for Troubs - EoF Expansion

MirageE · 09-14-2006, 10:49 PM

I know that the new subclass AA's will probably focus more on their specific subclass (ie - Troub vs Dirge) and thats all good and stuff as I wouldn't mind one bit being able to specialize in something like RESISTS vs DEBUFFS or whatever they have planned, but I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to be able to actually get a true AOE attack for my troub similar to a berserker combat skill.I dream that they make the subclass AA's more focused being able to choose ANOTHER SUB-CLASSES abilities or spells (ie - for us troub a non-troub's spell or ability) .

vladsamier1 · 09-15-2006, 01:11 AM

MirageEIG wrote:
I know that the new subclass AA's will probably focus more on their specific subclass (ie - Troub vs Dirge) and thats all good and stuff as I wouldn't mind one bit being able to specialize in something like RESISTS vs DEBUFFS or whatever they have planned, but I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to be able to actually get a true AOE attack for my troub similar to a berserker combat skill.

I dream that they make the subclass AA's more focused being able to choose ANOTHER SUB-CLASSES abilities or spells (ie - for us troub a non-troub's spell or ability) .

If I'm reading this correctly, then you want to be able to get to choose a warlock's ability or something to that effect through AAs... I personally think this is a horrible idea. If they were going to do something like that, than they should go to a class system similar to FF: X where everyone can be anything if they want by spending pts and could multiclass.

Now what I personally would like to see is to do something similar to how the Master II choices used to be. In case you weren't around pre LU-13, than here is an example: (using a bruiser example since I played a bruiser until after KoS launch) My bruiser had an ability called 100 hand punch that had 8 attacks of damage, but would only hit if the prior one hit, the specality choice reduced the number to 2 hits and combined 4 of the hits damge to make it similar damage if the original version of same quality would've hit... with a given AA the AA would do something like this.

So for a troubador example (just pulling it out of my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]), I'd like to see something like an AA that did something like make Rousing Opus not only effect attack speed but casting speed as well. So in a mixed group, the casters as well as the melee are benefiting from the same song, rather than just the melee and caster's pets.

Edited for poor Texan grammar... There is probably more hidden in there

Message Edited by vladsamier135 on 09-14-2006 04:12 PM

Narben Von Nacht · 09-19-2006, 06:52 PM

If they build on the existing AA's I'd like to see an increased duration on Turnstrike (would it have killed them to just give us our own version of Amazing Reflexes instead of making it combat triggered?) and a decrease in the Bladedance timer (10 mins is too long as base time)Otherwise- Run speed increase (make it the 1st ability that requires the compulsory single point and make it 48%)- Stances, both offensive and defensive (hey we're scouts too allegedly)- Personal crit % increase- A group wide Jesters (since I'm lazy, hell make it raid wide :smileyvery-happy: )- An upgrade to Maestro- An out of combat AoE (not a big issue but it could be occassionally useful)- An ability that gives an across the board increase to our spell/CA damage, a proc if they absolutely have to but a flat % multiplier would be better (like that will happen)What I don't want to see is - more abilities that the devs probably thought sounded really useful but only benefit 1 actual song (Oh wow my group ability buffs are 20% more effective, ok so thats Raxxyl's and.........Raxxyl's /sigh)- more abilities that have such low % increases that they make no difference (eg 8 points of Allegro vs. 4 points)

To be honest I thought most of our original AP's were so lacklustre I don't hold out much hope for the class specific ones (Any raiding bards that don't have DKTM/Bladedance? Such a huge choice of where to put your points). If they couldn't come up with 20 useful things the first time around how are they going to think of another 20? (Assuming another 5 stat bonus abilities we have to waste points in)

vinterskugge · 09-19-2006, 07:44 PM

More stuff like Bladedance, Jesters, Precision.

MagicWand · 09-20-2006, 07:59 AM

AoE radius buff songs.

DresdenMalicaster · 09-20-2006, 05:56 PM

The possibilities really are endless for Troubs.... Things that would really make a troubador fun: 1.) True AE short term buffs. This has by far the most potential. True AE +5% chance to crit? True AE power boost? 2.) A guaranteed Crit spell (even a 20 sec, 3min recast) where all hostile casts (or heals) will crit. 3.) Encounter Mez 4.) Use of Eli's and Essence lines while moving or incresed range on them. 5.) Added compoents to existing spells... a DoT to damage spells? A +2%HP to Razzyls? A +2%POW to Bria's? +DPS or +double attack to Opus line? + offensive proc to self-buff?

VericSauvari · 09-21-2006, 05:17 PM

DresdenMalicaster wrote:
The possibilities really are endless for Troubs....

Things that would really make a troubador fun:

1.) True AE short term buffs. This has by far the most potential. True AE +5% chance to crit? True AE power boost?
2.) A guaranteed Crit spell (even a 20 sec, 3min recast) where all hostile casts (or heals) will crit.
3.) Encounter Mez
4.) Use of Eli's and Essence lines while moving or incresed range on them.
5.) Added compoents to existing spells... a DoT to damage spells? A +2%HP to Razzyls? A +2%POW to Bria's? +DPS or +double attack to Opus line? + offensive proc to self-buff?

i would give me right arm (i only need my left arm to play those stupid animations anyways) for true AE short term buffs..if i could benefit the whole raid for 15 seconds vs. a group of undroppable buffs it would make it worthwhile and more entertaining to play my troubador instead of my brigand.

Xrak · 09-22-2006, 07:57 AM

a AA line that at the end made all ur buffs effect raid.../drool that would own. more crit chancealot more double attack would be nice...hell i would like 72%a AA that added dmg to all CAs and spellssome freakin run speed like 100% i want to make everyone that spent money on a horse feel dumb.and offensive and defensive stances cause everyone else got them so why not the bard?

Message Edited by Xrak on 09-21-2006 11:58 PM

Mildavyn · 09-23-2006, 06:44 PM

Xrak wrote:

some freakin run speed like 100% i want to make everyone that spent money on a horse feel dumb.

Message Edited by Xrak on 09-21-2006 11:58 PM

Most people will hate me for this next sentence, but I'm going to say it anyway...

I dont want a speed buff, i want mounts reduced by half. As it is, 56% is getting to be too fast. I would be quite happy if bard's runspeed was left as is and mounts were capped at 30%... even 40%. And for all of you who are going to say 'but you cant run faster than a horse' i also want sprint to be cut to 20%.

I dont think it's going to happen, and i know someone is going to flame me for this, but i want my bard speed back as a class perk/skill and this is the only real way to do it. At 56% i run off cliffs because i cant stop fast enough. Also as soon as im in a raid group, you can forget me being able to do anything except follow and give you my buffs.

So in conclusion, NERF MOUNTS

Dizank · 09-24-2006, 12:06 AM

~Short term AoE effects buffs could be very intersting - could be a dps, haste, or proc of some sort for players around you in raid

~ ability for more conc slots

~ run speed increase

~AAs that effect multiple buffs or give extra effects to spells/buffs

Godzmodi · 09-24-2006, 01:38 AM

something thats not [Removed for Content].. plz no more crap that only affects one spell by an intermediete lvl.

Rampagious · 09-24-2006, 06:09 AM

Well, Precision of the Maestro with a longer duration, and not rooting/pacifying you I think would be a very good alter for a current spell.

Rampagious · 09-24-2006, 06:09 AM

Also a group Jester's Cap would be awesome.

Llewrend · 09-25-2006, 03:20 AM

I agree with Ramp. Maybe have an ability called maestro's mastery that gets rid of the negative side effects, boosts damage done by it, and last maybe 5 or 10 seconds longer. Also an aoe mez would be nice SMILEY

Rampagious · 09-25-2006, 03:57 AM

AoE mezz would be nice, but we will never get it because we are already stepping on enchanters toes enough as is - giving us AE mezz would be imbalancing imo.

Landiin · 09-25-2006, 12:33 PM

* Fading Memories for the win!

Bobbiac · 09-25-2006, 06:09 PM

Rampagious wrote:AoE mezz would be nice, but we will never get it because we are already stepping on enchanters toes enough as is - giving us AE mezz would be imbalancing imo.

:smileyvery-happy: yeah ok.... if we DO get an AE mezz it will:A) Be another "situational" spellB) wont work AT ALL on epicsC) havea long recastD) have a short durationorE) all of the above :smileysad:

Rampagious · 09-25-2006, 09:28 PM

Bobbiac wrote:
Rampagious wrote:AoE mezz would be nice, but we will never get it because we are already stepping on enchanters toes enough as is - giving us AE mezz would be imbalancing imo.
:smileyvery-happy: yeah ok.... if we DO get an AE mezz it will:A) Be another "situational" spellB) wont work AT ALL on epicsC) havea long recastD) have a short durationorE) all of the above :smileysad:

And even with all those qualities, it will still be imbalancing.

Dragoon70000 · 09-25-2006, 11:07 PM

Personally, I think we should be more to par with enchanters support wise. We should be able to come close to matching them, right now our means of crowd control is hardy useable.

If we never do get any better control spells something should be done imo. Weather it be DPS like the limited buffs or AoEs or it be better buffs or aa builds that will substantially raise the effectivness of them.

I do agree though, I do not want to see the same type of AA coices we had in KoS.

I would also love to see more run speed.

Bobbiac · 09-26-2006, 12:26 AM

erm how the heck would that be imbalacning?

vladsamier1 · 09-26-2006, 12:32 AM

It'd be unbalancing because enchanters do not have the buffing power that a bard has..

Rampagious · 09-26-2006, 02:10 AM

Dragoon70000 wrote:

Personally, I think we should be more to par with enchanters support wise. We should be able to come close to matching them, right now our means of crowd control is hardy useable.

If we never do get any better control spells something should be done imo. Weather it be DPS like the limited buffs or AoEs or it be better buffs or aa builds that will substantially raise the effectivness of them.

I do agree though, I do not want to see the same type of AA coices we had in KoS.

I would also love to see more run speed.

LOL enchanters are by NO means have the kind of utility we have. No one in this game does.

Kajinryu · 09-26-2006, 08:58 AM

I wouldn't mind seeing an AA setup with lines like:BuffingDebuffingCrowd ControlMeleeSpellsIf they added overall effectiveness to our current repitoire and added one or two extra abilities at the end.

Mishrac · 09-26-2006, 11:03 AM

I agree with you Kajinryu.

That would be greate

Llewrend · 09-26-2006, 11:16 PM

AoE mez, even if it is subpar, wouldn't step on enchanters toes TOO much. I miss solo mezzing hurricanus's adds.

Besides, the only enchanter who's infamous for complaining is Pinski:smileytongue:

09-15-2006, 01:11 AM	#2
vladsamier1 General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 26	MirageEIG wrote: I know that the new subclass AA's will probably focus more on their specific subclass (ie - Troub vs Dirge) and thats all good and stuff as I wouldn't mind one bit being able to specialize in something like RESISTS vs DEBUFFS or whatever they have planned, but I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to be able to actually get a true AOE attack for my troub similar to a berserker combat skill. I dream that they make the subclass AA's more focused being able to choose ANOTHER SUB-CLASSES abilities or spells (ie - for us troub a non-troub's spell or ability) . If I'm reading this correctly, then you want to be able to get to choose a warlock's ability or something to that effect through AAs... I personally think this is a horrible idea. If they were going to do something like that, than they should go to a class system similar to FF: X where everyone can be anything if they want by spending pts and could multiclass. Now what I personally would like to see is to do something similar to how the Master II choices used to be. In case you weren't around pre LU-13, than here is an example: (using a bruiser example since I played a bruiser until after KoS launch) My bruiser had an ability called 100 hand punch that had 8 attacks of damage, but would only hit if the prior one hit, the specality choice reduced the number to 2 hits and combined 4 of the hits damge to make it similar damage if the original version of same quality would've hit... with a given AA the AA would do something like this. So for a troubador example (just pulling it out of my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]), I'd like to see something like an AA that did something like make Rousing Opus not only effect attack speed but casting speed as well. So in a mixed group, the casters as well as the melee are benefiting from the same song, rather than just the melee and caster's pets. Edited for poor Texan grammar... There is probably more hidden in there Message Edited by vladsamier135 on 09-14-2006 04:12 PM Message Edited by vladsamier135 on 09-14-2006 04:12 PM

09-19-2006, 06:52 PM	#3
Narben Von Nacht Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Australia Posts: 61	If they build on the existing AA's I'd like to see an increased duration on Turnstrike (would it have killed them to just give us our own version of Amazing Reflexes instead of making it combat triggered?) and a decrease in the Bladedance timer (10 mins is too long as base time)Otherwise- Run speed increase (make it the 1st ability that requires the compulsory single point and make it 48%)- Stances, both offensive and defensive (hey we're scouts too allegedly)- Personal crit % increase- A group wide Jesters (since I'm lazy, hell make it raid wide :smileyvery-happy: )- An upgrade to Maestro- An out of combat AoE (not a big issue but it could be occassionally useful)- An ability that gives an across the board increase to our spell/CA damage, a proc if they absolutely have to but a flat % multiplier would be better (like that will happen)What I don't want to see is - more abilities that the devs probably thought sounded really useful but only benefit 1 actual song (Oh wow my group ability buffs are 20% more effective, ok so thats Raxxyl's and.........Raxxyl's /sigh)- more abilities that have such low % increases that they make no difference (eg 8 points of Allegro vs. 4 points) To be honest I thought most of our original AP's were so lacklustre I don't hold out much hope for the class specific ones (Any raiding bards that don't have DKTM/Bladedance? Such a huge choice of where to put your points). If they couldn't come up with 20 useful things the first time around how are they going to think of another 20? (Assuming another 5 stat bonus abilities we have to waste points in) __________________ Glide Troubador of Nexus Narben Necromancer of Nexus Najena Server

09-20-2006, 05:56 PM	#6
DresdenMalicaster Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 160	The possibilities really are endless for Troubs.... Things that would really make a troubador fun: 1.) True AE short term buffs. This has by far the most potential. True AE +5% chance to crit? True AE power boost? 2.) A guaranteed Crit spell (even a 20 sec, 3min recast) where all hostile casts (or heals) will crit. 3.) Encounter Mez 4.) Use of Eli's and Essence lines while moving or incresed range on them. 5.) Added compoents to existing spells... a DoT to damage spells? A +2%HP to Razzyls? A +2%POW to Bria's? +DPS or +double attack to Opus line? + offensive proc to self-buff? __________________

09-21-2006, 05:17 PM	#7
VericSauvari Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 302	DresdenMalicaster wrote: The possibilities really are endless for Troubs.... Things that would really make a troubador fun: 1.) True AE short term buffs. This has by far the most potential. True AE +5% chance to crit? True AE power boost? 2.) A guaranteed Crit spell (even a 20 sec, 3min recast) where all hostile casts (or heals) will crit. 3.) Encounter Mez 4.) Use of Eli's and Essence lines while moving or incresed range on them. 5.) Added compoents to existing spells... a DoT to damage spells? A +2%HP to Razzyls? A +2%POW to Bria's? +DPS or +double attack to Opus line? + offensive proc to self-buff? i would give me right arm (i only need my left arm to play those stupid animations anyways) for true AE short term buffs..if i could benefit the whole raid for 15 seconds vs. a group of undroppable buffs it would make it worthwhile and more entertaining to play my troubador instead of my brigand. __________________ (boycott pay-2-pwn (RMT) !

09-23-2006, 06:44 PM	#9
Mildavyn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,301	Xrak wrote: some freakin run speed like 100% i want to make everyone that spent money on a horse feel dumb. Message Edited by Xrak on 09-21-2006 11:58 PM Most people will hate me for this next sentence, but I'm going to say it anyway... I dont want a speed buff, i want mounts reduced by half. As it is, 56% is getting to be too fast. I would be quite happy if bard's runspeed was left as is and mounts were capped at 30%... even 40%. And for all of you who are going to say 'but you cant run faster than a horse' i also want sprint to be cut to 20%. I dont think it's going to happen, and i know someone is going to flame me for this, but i want my bard speed back as a class perk/skill and this is the only real way to do it. At 56% i run off cliffs because i cant stop fast enough. Also as soon as im in a raid group, you can forget me being able to do anything except follow and give you my buffs. So in conclusion, NERF MOUNTS __________________ Paikis, Troubador Ashk, Guardian Sslyth, Necromancer Mirbolt, Shadowknight Mildayvin, Assasin Verminius, Defiler

09-14-2006, 10:49 PM	#1
MirageE General Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: South Jersey - yes its a state by itself Posts: 64	I know that the new subclass AA's will probably focus more on their specific subclass (ie - Troub vs Dirge) and thats all good and stuff as I wouldn't mind one bit being able to specialize in something like RESISTS vs DEBUFFS or whatever they have planned, but I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to be able to actually get a true AOE attack for my troub similar to a berserker combat skill.I dream that they make the subclass AA's more focused being able to choose ANOTHER SUB-CLASSES abilities or spells (ie - for us troub a non-troub's spell or ability) .

09-19-2006, 07:44 PM	#4
vinterskugge Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 696	More stuff like Bladedance, Jesters, Precision.

09-20-2006, 07:59 AM	#5
MagicWand Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 128	AoE radius buff songs.

09-22-2006, 07:57 AM	#8
Xrak Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 13	a AA line that at the end made all ur buffs effect raid.../drool that would own. more crit chancealot more double attack would be nice...hell i would like 72%a AA that added dmg to all CAs and spellssome freakin run speed like 100% i want to make everyone that spent money on a horse feel dumb.and offensive and defensive stances cause everyone else got them so why not the bard? Message Edited by Xrak on 09-21-2006 11:58 PM

09-24-2006, 12:06 AM	#10
Dizank Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 27	~Short term AoE effects buffs could be very intersting - could be a dps, haste, or proc of some sort for players around you in raid ~ ability for more conc slots ~ run speed increase ~AAs that effect multiple buffs or give extra effects to spells/buffs __________________ Aoide Basejumper 70 Troubador - Trinitas Mistmoore

09-24-2006, 01:38 AM	#11
Godzmodi Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 70	something thats not [Removed for Content].. plz no more crap that only affects one spell by an intermediete lvl.

09-24-2006, 06:09 AM	#12
Rampagious Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 188	Well, Precision of the Maestro with a longer duration, and not rooting/pacifying you I think would be a very good alter for a current spell. __________________ Rampagious - Dissolution

09-25-2006, 03:20 AM	#14
Llewrend Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 34	I agree with Ramp. Maybe have an ability called maestro's mastery that gets rid of the negative side effects, boosts damage done by it, and last maybe 5 or 10 seconds longer. Also an aoe mez would be nice __________________ Llewbador!

09-25-2006, 03:57 AM	#15
Rampagious Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 188	AoE mezz would be nice, but we will never get it because we are already stepping on enchanters toes enough as is - giving us AE mezz would be imbalancing imo. __________________ Rampagious - Dissolution

09-25-2006, 12:33 PM	#16
Landiin Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,749	* Fading Memories for the win! __________________

09-25-2006, 06:09 PM	#17
Bobbiac Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 105	Rampagious wrote:AoE mezz would be nice, but we will never get it because we are already stepping on enchanters toes enough as is - giving us AE mezz would be imbalancing imo. :smileyvery-happy: yeah ok.... if we DO get an AE mezz it will:A) Be another "situational" spellB) wont work AT ALL on epicsC) havea long recastD) have a short durationorE) all of the above :smileysad:

09-25-2006, 09:28 PM	#18
Rampagious Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 188	Bobbiac wrote: Rampagious wrote:AoE mezz would be nice, but we will never get it because we are already stepping on enchanters toes enough as is - giving us AE mezz would be imbalancing imo. :smileyvery-happy: yeah ok.... if we DO get an AE mezz it will:A) Be another "situational" spellB) wont work AT ALL on epicsC) havea long recastD) have a short durationorE) all of the above :smileysad: And even with all those qualities, it will still be imbalancing. __________________ Rampagious - Dissolution

09-25-2006, 11:07 PM	#19
Dragoon70000 Lord Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 2	Personally, I think we should be more to par with enchanters support wise. We should be able to come close to matching them, right now our means of crowd control is hardy useable. If we never do get any better control spells something should be done imo. Weather it be DPS like the limited buffs or AoEs or it be better buffs or aa builds that will substantially raise the effectivness of them. I do agree though, I do not want to see the same type of AA coices we had in KoS. I would also love to see more run speed.

09-26-2006, 12:26 AM	#20
Bobbiac Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 105	erm how the heck would that be imbalacning?

09-26-2006, 12:32 AM	#21
vladsamier1 General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 26	It'd be unbalancing because enchanters do not have the buffing power that a bard has..

09-26-2006, 02:10 AM	#22
Rampagious Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 188	Dragoon70000 wrote: Personally, I think we should be more to par with enchanters support wise. We should be able to come close to matching them, right now our means of crowd control is hardy useable. If we never do get any better control spells something should be done imo. Weather it be DPS like the limited buffs or AoEs or it be better buffs or aa builds that will substantially raise the effectivness of them. I do agree though, I do not want to see the same type of AA coices we had in KoS. I would also love to see more run speed. LOL enchanters are by NO means have the kind of utility we have. No one in this game does. __________________ Rampagious - Dissolution

09-26-2006, 08:58 AM	#23
Kajinryu Lord Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 29	I wouldn't mind seeing an AA setup with lines like:BuffingDebuffingCrowd ControlMeleeSpellsIf they added overall effectiveness to our current repitoire and added one or two extra abilities at the end.

09-26-2006, 11:03 AM	#24
Mishrac Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 61	I agree with you Kajinryu. That would be greate __________________ Minas the Wicked. Troubador of Aenigma on Crushbone

09-26-2006, 11:16 PM	#25
Llewrend Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 34	AoE mez, even if it is subpar, wouldn't step on enchanters toes TOO much. I miss solo mezzing hurricanus's adds. Besides, the only enchanter who's infamous for complaining is Pinski:smileytongue: __________________ Llewbador!