Swashbuckler Mentality

Zodi · 05-09-2006, 09:22 PM

Fellow Swashbucklers:

As level 37 swashie I feel pretty happy with our class. I know we are not supposed to be T1 DPS so I try not focus on who outdps me. Even that I am always trying to do as much damage as I can.

I know our debuff and buff are not the best, but we have a decent variety of them. Our utility and fun comes from simple things such as: evac, group invi, t2 dps, defensive debuff.

Here is my question:

What else can I bring to a raid? I jack of all trades but master of none.. Is our aggro transfer so godo that we are prefered in the MT group? Can I focus in DPS and be there withthe top dogs (NOT THE TOP DOG BUT AT LEAST GET CLOSE?)

Are my debuff really that benefitial to raid?

Basically I know how to play swashie in groups, but my raid experience with him is almost neglible. I made this guy for raiding and eventualyl retire my guardian. So I would like your input how to start thinking as swashie instead of a darn guardian

thanks for any help on this matter

AegisCrown · 05-09-2006, 09:50 PM

when raiding we bring alot of varied debuffs, also our dps can land us on top or 2nd on most parses.

Krontak · 05-09-2006, 09:54 PM

You'll prob get beaten out by a dirge for mt group in most situations cause they got a bit more group untility functions for raid situations. They may have you in the offtank group for your hate transfer skills though in situations where u may 2 tank or the mt goes down and another tank is there to take over.

You've got like 7 or something attacks, each with a different debuff that will subsequently increase dps accross the raid so I'd say yes, your debuffs are useful. I'm not sure anyone has ever tried to determine exactly how much increase in dps you provide a raid with all your debuffs or if its even possible but, I'm sure it would be a significant number. To set up a test scenario to test this would be too much effort and it's already hard enough getting 24 peeps together let alone have them do everything identical to the previous time you raided to test this.

The last skill of the Strength line on AA's will def benefit your raid but this skill isn't unique to swashies so.

On rare occasions, I've used my mez for crowd control but I'm talking "rare" occasions.

Your dps standing in raids varies quite a bit depending on the situation. We've got some great aoe's especially if you choose them as master II. We can get great dps on large group situations in raids placing us up top of the dps ladder.

On short fights you'll consistently get beat by the assasisns/rangers that have great spurts of high dps they can dish out.

I seem to do well on the longer fights. I can get in the top 5 in those usually.

Playstyle and Skill level of your CA's will greatly influence your results.

Enjoy your swashie, I coulnd't imagine playin' any other class.

ArivenGemini · 05-09-2006, 10:07 PM

Zodian wrote:
Fellow Swashbucklers:

As level 37 swashie I feel pretty happy with our class. I know we are not supposed to be T1 DPS so I try not focus on who outdps me. Even that I am always trying to do as much damage as I can.

I know our debuff and buff are not the best, but we have a decent variety of them. Our utility and fun comes from simple things such as: evac, group invi, t2 dps, defensive debuff.

Here is my question:

What else can I bring to a raid? I jack of all trades but master of none.. Is our aggro transfer so godo that we are prefered in the MT group? Can I focus in DPS and be there withthe top dogs (NOT THE TOP DOG BUT AT LEAST GET CLOSE?)

Are my debuff really that benefitial to raid?

Basically I know how to play swashie in groups, but my raid experience with him is almost neglible. I made this guy for raiding and eventualyl retire my guardian. So I would like your input how to start thinking as swashie instead of a darn guardian

thanks for any help on this matter

One thing I like to describe us as is like 3M, we dont do the T1 dps.. we make the T1 dps better.. we dont do the best tanking, we make the tanks better... and so on... the debuffs are tremendous... and our DPS isn't anything to sneeze at... whatever role we want to take on, we can do darn good at.. and all the while making our group better.. taking less damage, doing more damage to the mobs.. using less power for more oomph and so on.. When you can slow the attack speed of a mob, reduce his damage he can do and make him easier to hit and make it so he cant hit as hard... you make everyone happy... and if you have to back off and use hail of steel for ranged damage you can.. SMILEY

its a fun class, and I am truly enjoying it.. especially with the T7 poisons..

Krakenap · 05-09-2006, 10:19 PM

As a pretty well equipped (though not the best) T7 raiding swashbuckler here's what I've seen.

In the two T7 raiding guilds I have been in - in the first I was always #1 or #2 in DPS if I applied myself - even when I didn't I was in top 5 always. I was competing with assassin and swashbucklers - no other classes were able to maintain the DPS over an extended period without grabbing aggro at some point. In my current guild swashbucklers usually are at the top of the dps chart consistantly (top 3 in every parse includes a swash).

Swashbucklers have the ability to go full out, and I mean full out, in a big raid without worrying about aggro. We have so much aggro reducing abilities that it's really hard to get aggro in most situations. Other classes just don't have that type of control. Yes, supposed T1 classes can do more DPS but without perfectly setup groups (which only really exists in the T1 raiding guilds) noone actually can do their potential anyway.

I was in raids with a Wizard were I'm easily doing over 1000 dps and the Wizard is pulling aggro whenever they get above 700.

As for debuffs - every bit counts and you can do a bit of everything. Brigands can throw in their massive debuff for a few seconds - we can keep our debuffs in permanently with good control of your character and yes that makes a major difference in all raids.

I wouldn't trade my swash for any other class.

SageGaspar · 05-09-2006, 10:54 PM

There's a lot of times our guild doesn't have dirges or coercers along, so they put me in the MT group. I'm of the opinion that 20% of our aggro is probably worth more than whatever hate buff they're putting on the MT. I've transferred aggro over to a tank class that was doing something like 300 DPS and not taunting and the first battle we were in they yoinked aggro off the MT.With my 20% hate if I AE in multimob encounters, the tank rarely if ever has to turn to taunt them, they all stick to him like glue.I view us as moderate-good sustained single-target debuffers (I'm skeptical at how much good our debuffs are doing when there's enough other debuff classes in the raid), good sustained single-target, great sustained AE, good offtanks, and great at controlling the flow of hate if we're in the right situation.

Geero · 05-09-2006, 11:28 PM

What people said above...

Our dps is good.

Out debuff is good.

But most usefull imo is agro control. If we go on MT group we can pick up run away mob from healers with taunt and with hate transfer we can easily pass that mob over to MT. We can use our gain hate skills to help MT hold agro from in and out of MT group. I say get to know your agro control more then anything. It will be very useful in raid.

If I'm in a good raid/xp group, I can pretty much control my agro whole time. I can gain agro from just about anyone if I want and get rid of it pretty much any time I want. I think that's one of main raid skill that no one talks about. This doesn't mean I can tank in raid tho... I get owned by t7x4 mobs in 1-2 hits most of times, but I say this, its better us then MT or healer and pretty soon... chanters.

Zodi · 05-09-2006, 11:52 PM

I cant thank you enough for all the information you guys provided me. I am looking forward to level my soon to be prime character.

Hey Paleaf I see you in crushbone. You and my Guardian wrecked some place together!

Thyron (previously known as Thanos)

new alt

Avathos Novatar and his motto

"DPS never looked so good"

LOL

Onemroe time guys thank you for everything

Geero · 05-10-2006, 03:56 AM

Aaah

Grats on joining Genesis...

Zygwen · 05-10-2006, 06:12 PM

In my raiding guild, when the nukers wake up I don't get anywhere close to top 6. The brigand has been able to beat the nukers on occation but I think Wyrmslayer might be skewing number. I can't wait to get mine. SMILEY

More and more though I see my possition as debuffing and moderate dps over high dps. My primary roll has become stay alive and make sure Traumatic Strike and other debuffs stay on assigned targets.

05-09-2006, 09:54 PM	#3
Krontak Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 438	You'll prob get beaten out by a dirge for mt group in most situations cause they got a bit more group untility functions for raid situations. They may have you in the offtank group for your hate transfer skills though in situations where u may 2 tank or the mt goes down and another tank is there to take over. You've got like 7 or something attacks, each with a different debuff that will subsequently increase dps accross the raid so I'd say yes, your debuffs are useful. I'm not sure anyone has ever tried to determine exactly how much increase in dps you provide a raid with all your debuffs or if its even possible but, I'm sure it would be a significant number. To set up a test scenario to test this would be too much effort and it's already hard enough getting 24 peeps together let alone have them do everything identical to the previous time you raided to test this. The last skill of the Strength line on AA's will def benefit your raid but this skill isn't unique to swashies so. On rare occasions, I've used my mez for crowd control but I'm talking "rare" occasions. Your dps standing in raids varies quite a bit depending on the situation. We've got some great aoe's especially if you choose them as master II. We can get great dps on large group situations in raids placing us up top of the dps ladder. On short fights you'll consistently get beat by the assasisns/rangers that have great spurts of high dps they can dish out. I seem to do well on the longer fights. I can get in the top 5 in those usually. Playstyle and Skill level of your CA's will greatly influence your results. Enjoy your swashie, I coulnd't imagine playin' any other class. __________________

05-09-2006, 10:07 PM	#4
ArivenGemini Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,260	Zodian wrote: Fellow Swashbucklers: As level 37 swashie I feel pretty happy with our class. I know we are not supposed to be T1 DPS so I try not focus on who outdps me. Even that I am always trying to do as much damage as I can. I know our debuff and buff are not the best, but we have a decent variety of them. Our utility and fun comes from simple things such as: evac, group invi, t2 dps, defensive debuff. Here is my question: What else can I bring to a raid? I jack of all trades but master of none.. Is our aggro transfer so godo that we are prefered in the MT group? Can I focus in DPS and be there withthe top dogs (NOT THE TOP DOG BUT AT LEAST GET CLOSE?) Are my debuff really that benefitial to raid? Basically I know how to play swashie in groups, but my raid experience with him is almost neglible. I made this guy for raiding and eventualyl retire my guardian. So I would like your input how to start thinking as swashie instead of a darn guardian thanks for any help on this matter One thing I like to describe us as is like 3M, we dont do the T1 dps.. we make the T1 dps better.. we dont do the best tanking, we make the tanks better... and so on... the debuffs are tremendous... and our DPS isn't anything to sneeze at... whatever role we want to take on, we can do darn good at.. and all the while making our group better.. taking less damage, doing more damage to the mobs.. using less power for more oomph and so on.. When you can slow the attack speed of a mob, reduce his damage he can do and make him easier to hit and make it so he cant hit as hard... you make everyone happy... and if you have to back off and use hail of steel for ranged damage you can.. its a fun class, and I am truly enjoying it.. especially with the T7 poisons.. __________________

05-10-2006, 06:12 PM	#10
Zygwen Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 277	In my raiding guild, when the nukers wake up I don't get anywhere close to top 6. The brigand has been able to beat the nukers on occation but I think Wyrmslayer might be skewing number. I can't wait to get mine. More and more though I see my possition as debuffing and moderate dps over high dps. My primary roll has become stay alive and make sure Traumatic Strike and other debuffs stay on assigned targets. __________________ Evalin, lvl 90 Swashbuckler Joannax, lvl 90 Troubador Sacrifice Oasis

05-09-2006, 09:22 PM	#1
Zodi Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 158	Fellow Swashbucklers: As level 37 swashie I feel pretty happy with our class. I know we are not supposed to be T1 DPS so I try not focus on who outdps me. Even that I am always trying to do as much damage as I can. I know our debuff and buff are not the best, but we have a decent variety of them. Our utility and fun comes from simple things such as: evac, group invi, t2 dps, defensive debuff. Here is my question: What else can I bring to a raid? I jack of all trades but master of none.. Is our aggro transfer so godo that we are prefered in the MT group? Can I focus in DPS and be there withthe top dogs (NOT THE TOP DOG BUT AT LEAST GET CLOSE?) Are my debuff really that benefitial to raid? Basically I know how to play swashie in groups, but my raid experience with him is almost neglible. I made this guy for raiding and eventualyl retire my guardian. So I would like your input how to start thinking as swashie instead of a darn guardian thanks for any help on this matter

05-09-2006, 09:50 PM	#2
AegisCrown Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 576	when raiding we bring alot of varied debuffs, also our dps can land us on top or 2nd on most parses. __________________ EQ2 Flames - Swashbuckler

05-09-2006, 10:19 PM	#5
Krakenap Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 56	As a pretty well equipped (though not the best) T7 raiding swashbuckler here's what I've seen. In the two T7 raiding guilds I have been in - in the first I was always #1 or #2 in DPS if I applied myself - even when I didn't I was in top 5 always. I was competing with assassin and swashbucklers - no other classes were able to maintain the DPS over an extended period without grabbing aggro at some point. In my current guild swashbucklers usually are at the top of the dps chart consistantly (top 3 in every parse includes a swash). Swashbucklers have the ability to go full out, and I mean full out, in a big raid without worrying about aggro. We have so much aggro reducing abilities that it's really hard to get aggro in most situations. Other classes just don't have that type of control. Yes, supposed T1 classes can do more DPS but without perfectly setup groups (which only really exists in the T1 raiding guilds) noone actually can do their potential anyway. I was in raids with a Wizard were I'm easily doing over 1000 dps and the Wizard is pulling aggro whenever they get above 700. As for debuffs - every bit counts and you can do a bit of everything. Brigands can throw in their massive debuff for a few seconds - we can keep our debuffs in permanently with good control of your character and yes that makes a major difference in all raids. I wouldn't trade my swash for any other class.

05-09-2006, 10:54 PM	#6
SageGaspar Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 964	There's a lot of times our guild doesn't have dirges or coercers along, so they put me in the MT group. I'm of the opinion that 20% of our aggro is probably worth more than whatever hate buff they're putting on the MT. I've transferred aggro over to a tank class that was doing something like 300 DPS and not taunting and the first battle we were in they yoinked aggro off the MT.With my 20% hate if I AE in multimob encounters, the tank rarely if ever has to turn to taunt them, they all stick to him like glue.I view us as moderate-good sustained single-target debuffers (I'm skeptical at how much good our debuffs are doing when there's enough other debuff classes in the raid), good sustained single-target, great sustained AE, good offtanks, and great at controlling the flow of hate if we're in the right situation.

05-09-2006, 11:28 PM	#7
Geero Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 118	What people said above... Our dps is good. Out debuff is good. But most usefull imo is agro control. If we go on MT group we can pick up run away mob from healers with taunt and with hate transfer we can easily pass that mob over to MT. We can use our gain hate skills to help MT hold agro from in and out of MT group. I say get to know your agro control more then anything. It will be very useful in raid. If I'm in a good raid/xp group, I can pretty much control my agro whole time. I can gain agro from just about anyone if I want and get rid of it pretty much any time I want. I think that's one of main raid skill that no one talks about. This doesn't mean I can tank in raid tho... I get owned by t7x4 mobs in 1-2 hits most of times, but I say this, its better us then MT or healer and pretty soon... chanters.

05-09-2006, 11:52 PM	#8
Zodi Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 158	I cant thank you enough for all the information you guys provided me. I am looking forward to level my soon to be prime character. Hey Paleaf I see you in crushbone. You and my Guardian wrecked some place together! Thyron (previously known as Thanos) new alt Avathos Novatar and his motto "DPS never looked so good" LOL Onemroe time guys thank you for everything

05-10-2006, 03:56 AM	#9
Geero Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 118	Aaah Grats on joining Genesis...