How do you know if you are a good healer or bad healer?

skidmark · 12-17-2005, 01:39 AM

With the relative lack of penalty associated with dying in this game, it seems that people are willing to take bigger chances (at least at my level range 20's). The groups I have been getting in (with me as main/only healer) there is a lot of dying going on. I have only had the MT die on me twice (in 4 levels) in Fallen Gate. Once in the Pit, he was dead before I got a heal off. The other was in not nearly as hard of a place, but it turned into a total party wipe. But a DPS person will die at least once during the evening it seems. I have seen people saying that the DPS need to watch their aggro, and if they can't, let them die once or twice. But I can't stop from trying to heal them. I guess a Troll Defiler can have a soft-spot in their heart after all. Troy

djinnz · 12-17-2005, 10:15 PM

imo its the dps job to control there agro, but at the same time we have a duty to try heal against those rare adds or bugged agro from various buffs that dont work right. defilers have no reactive heals, your best bet is to group ward and group heal as soon as things look to be going wrong this will buy you time. Later you will get spiritual circle that adds a little more to this style of play. i tend to make sure the tank and healer (me) stay up at all costs, because its pretty much a wipe if not, other players have to except they are expendable at times, its just the way the game works

certain classes die alot with or without a defiler healing though, dont take it personal, warlocks and certain scouts just get creamed constantly it seems, we had a raid last night one of the scouts got killed 18 times while the raid wiped just 3-4 times

t0iletduck · 12-17-2005, 10:46 PM

aye that is anoying when a dps class keeps getting agro. I do my best to keep them up using the strategy you mention, tossing up a group ward to buy time and tossing a heal to someone if they take a lot of AE damage or gets an add. however, if a dps class keeps pulling agro off the tank to be macho and win a dps [Removed for Content] contest, I let them kiss dirt. It's not worth having the tank or yourself die if someone can't control their agro. Trying to panic heal a scout or robe who pulls agro a lot will likely just get yourself killed and ensure a group wipe. As for being a bad healer, the only real bad healer is one who doesn't pay attention or one who panics can hits the wrong key when they meant to do a heal SMILEY

One tip, and you're probably already doing it, is to keep one hand over the F1-F6 keys and the mouse over the ward/heal part of your hotbar. Much easier to target group members with the F keys than trying to use the mouse to click on them or on their name. It also helps prevent hitting the wrong key accidentally. Also, if you do hit the wrong key, you can jump to interupt yourself so you don't waste casting time on a useless spell.

sostrows · 12-18-2005, 12:02 AM

folks take even more chances once you hit 60. removal of the death/debt penalty has changed the way grps xp for sure

Turb · 12-19-2005, 03:23 AM

People grp for xp at 60? SMILEY

Persi · 12-19-2005, 06:44 AM

I too agree that its the dps person's fault if he gets aggro. I'm an assassin and I rarely ever get aggro away from the MT. If the dps player in your group is having trouble with aggro, it's usually because he just doesn't know how to play his class.

Orontes

42 Human Assassin

Unrest

Bobbette · 12-19-2005, 06:10 PM

t0iletduck wrote: One tip, and you're probably already doing it, is to keep one hand over the F1-F6 keys and the mouse over the ward/heal part of your hotbar.

I have a warden friend who set up his numpad for the hotbar keys with his heals. I assume he uses his left hand over the F-keys to target group members and his right hand on the numpad to cast the heals.

sostrows · 12-20-2005, 10:28 PM

if you move to one of the new PvP servers, you'll be able to debuff a group member if their of opposite city. funny.

Sokolov · 12-20-2005, 10:37 PM

The advantage of playing a shaman is you can keep a Group Ward active as often as recast allows... and not lose it's efficiency even if only the tank has aggro, unlike other priests.

pist · 12-23-2005, 08:16 PM

If your tank stays alive, and your group isn't wiping unless its because of some serious adds or something, you're doing fine.

Broomhilda · 12-23-2005, 09:25 PM

How to know if your a good healer? Well it depends on many things.

Reputation is one. When grouping, people that you play with will know if your a good healer by your play style.

While keeping the group alive is the main objective, all experienced players know when things get out of hand (dps pulling aggro several times, adds, etc), no one healer can perform miracles. Those that expect you to perform miracles regardless of their actions (like pulling aggro) are people you don't need to group with again and dont understant healing in the game. They are the people that dont know how to play thier class and like to blame the healer, tanks, whomever, for their subsequent deaths. We have all had experience with these types. Thankfully I am past the levels where I meet alot of these types and most of the people I group with are pros that know what their doing. We can go thru the tuffest instances (poets palace, tables, etc.) with me solo healing with absolutely no deaths. We need to remember that a group must act like TEAM Players. The success of any group is based on the actions of ALL the group members, not just the infamous tank/healer.

Last is your own self assessment. How do you feel your doing? Are you making the most of your abilities? Are you working to obtain your master/adept3 heals and wards/debuffs? And most importantly, do you know your limitations? As the healer it is important that you add your imput on where your group goes to exp. I am very familiar with the group that wants to take on things way over their heads for the "phat" xp (The second they wipe they are placing the blame on the healer/tank). If some things are out of your league, dont be ashamed to say so. Dont get yourself in a situation where you are certain to fail. This isnt a popularity/ego contest. If you cant handle something, let the group know and suggest 1. they add an additional healer to the group or 2. suggest a xp spot that you know you can handle.

Success in healing isnt about doing the impossible, but knowing what is possible. A good healer is only as good as the group they are in. Just my thoughts. Good luck!

Schirf · 12-23-2005, 10:48 PM

I have several scout characters (Swashbuckler, Dirge, Troubadour) and a number of other toons (Templar, Guardian, Warlock, etc.). Recently I’ve been playing my Dirge in a trio with a Defiler (my wife), and a Paladin (my daughter). We group with others often, but are pretty efficient as a self-contained leveling group. While I can take agro from the Paladin, as a scout I also have the tools needed to give it right back to the Paladin. A tank being resisted on a taunt isn’t a cause to panic. If I do a little too much damage I’ll be using my class (and sometimes racial) de-taunts. Management is an art, and is what makes the game fun. DPS classes that pull a mob off a tank have to know how to deal with it. Sometimes it’s their fault, but sometimes it’s not. If you’re not able to throw off the agro then stand still, die, and apologize. It’s those that run or [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] that cause real heartache and frustration.

How to know if you’re a good healer?

You’re a good healer when you can get into a difficult situation, not panic, and work your way out of it using your subclass features without resorting to turning into a senseless non-stop generic-heal spammer.

Here are some tips:

Know all of your spell effects and understand when to use each. If you think you have more than one totally useless spell chances are you don’t understand the system yet.

Understand that early debuffing is reducing the amount of damage you need to heal. Understand when it's too late for the debuff to have real meaning.

Understand the Heroic Opportunity system and use it to do group HOs, not solo HOs. Know when to cancel the current opening chain by starting a new HO.

Ishnar · 12-24-2005, 02:48 PM

Which is better at the beginning of combat vs. white or better. Debuff or dot?

This defiler is my first healer ever and just subclassed. I've been ignoring weakness considering it too small a debuff to be meaningful but after talking to a bard started using it again. Obviously debuffs are more useful the sooner they are cast, but the same with dots. Usually, it seems I only have time to cast one or two spells debuff/dot or debuff/debuff before I need to start warding. When solo I've also been pulling with my dot.

I've still got a ways to go. I keep forgetting about my fear spell until after I'm dead, and I've been trying to split my heals between the rogues and the fighter and myself, but being a woodelf my mana pool is still lower than my HP. Hopefully I'll be able to change that with better equipment. With the above comments in mind, from now on when a dps pulls aggro I'll cast once or twice but after that I'll stop, because splitting my heals between 3 or more makes me run out of mana and leads to party wipe. If I had let the rogue die I might have been able to save the party......I see that now. I haven't really been panicing, I just misunderstood my responsibilities. My goal isn't to keep everyone in the party alive, it's to keep someone in the party alive. Right? Also, It seems my casting times are so long that if any mage gets aggro they are toast before my heal goes off. I'm also still making the mistake of hitting my long cast heals when the tank is in the red. Yea, I know. I'm trying though. I do it less.

I'm glad I took defiler though. The debuffs and dots make me feel like I'm playing a regular class practically. And BC is so beautiful I practically want to cry.

t0iletduck · 12-25-2005, 09:54 PM

I usually go with the debuffs that slow the mobs attack speed and go from there. It buys some time to land more debuffs before you have to ward and heal. As for the rest of it, practice makes perfect. And you are correct, it is better to let a scout or mage kiss dirt if they pull agro. Running out of mana or getting agro yourself trying to heal someone besides the tank is a recipe for a wipe. It is easy to get in the habit of trying to toss heals out to everyone, but you'll get over it. If the scout or mage keeps dying from pulling agro too much, they usually get the hint to keep the dps down a notch. When you choose racial traits, go with wis, power pool, and in combat mana regen when possible. Higher power pool means more fun for everyone.

12-17-2005, 10:46 PM	#3
t0iletduck Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 212	aye that is anoying when a dps class keeps getting agro. I do my best to keep them up using the strategy you mention, tossing up a group ward to buy time and tossing a heal to someone if they take a lot of AE damage or gets an add. however, if a dps class keeps pulling agro off the tank to be macho and win a dps [Removed for Content] contest, I let them kiss dirt. It's not worth having the tank or yourself die if someone can't control their agro. Trying to panic heal a scout or robe who pulls agro a lot will likely just get yourself killed and ensure a group wipe. As for being a bad healer, the only real bad healer is one who doesn't pay attention or one who panics can hits the wrong key when they meant to do a heal One tip, and you're probably already doing it, is to keep one hand over the F1-F6 keys and the mouse over the ward/heal part of your hotbar. Much easier to target group members with the F keys than trying to use the mouse to click on them or on their name. It also helps prevent hitting the wrong key accidentally. Also, if you do hit the wrong key, you can jump to interupt yourself so you don't waste casting time on a useless spell.

12-19-2005, 03:23 AM	#5
Turb General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,117	People grp for xp at 60? __________________

12-19-2005, 06:10 PM	#7
Bobbette Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 134	t0iletduck wrote: One tip, and you're probably already doing it, is to keep one hand over the F1-F6 keys and the mouse over the ward/heal part of your hotbar. I have a warden friend who set up his numpad for the hotbar keys with his heals. I assume he uses his left hand over the F-keys to target group members and his right hand on the numpad to cast the heals. __________________ Mortianna 80 Illusionist Velda 80 Bruiser Janey 78 Mystic Stormwatch ~ Antonia Bayle

12-20-2005, 10:37 PM	#9
Sokolov Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,357	The advantage of playing a shaman is you can keep a Group Ward active as often as recast allows... and not lose it's efficiency even if only the tank has aggro, unlike other priests. __________________ [] Sokolov - New Outriders [] [] Maridith(70 Defiler) Sokolov (70 Jeweler) Loklan(57 Zerker) Rebekah(47 Ranger) [] Healing Guide - Version 0.5 Fate has perfect wings

12-17-2005, 01:39 AM	#1
skidmark Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 486	With the relative lack of penalty associated with dying in this game, it seems that people are willing to take bigger chances (at least at my level range 20's). The groups I have been getting in (with me as main/only healer) there is a lot of dying going on. I have only had the MT die on me twice (in 4 levels) in Fallen Gate. Once in the Pit, he was dead before I got a heal off. The other was in not nearly as hard of a place, but it turned into a total party wipe. But a DPS person will die at least once during the evening it seems. I have seen people saying that the DPS need to watch their aggro, and if they can't, let them die once or twice. But I can't stop from trying to heal them. I guess a Troll Defiler can have a soft-spot in their heart after all. Troy

12-17-2005, 10:15 PM	#2
djinnz Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 146	imo its the dps job to control there agro, but at the same time we have a duty to try heal against those rare adds or bugged agro from various buffs that dont work right. defilers have no reactive heals, your best bet is to group ward and group heal as soon as things look to be going wrong this will buy you time. Later you will get spiritual circle that adds a little more to this style of play. i tend to make sure the tank and healer (me) stay up at all costs, because its pretty much a wipe if not, other players have to except they are expendable at times, its just the way the game works certain classes die alot with or without a defiler healing though, dont take it personal, warlocks and certain scouts just get creamed constantly it seems, we had a raid last night one of the scouts got killed 18 times while the raid wiped just 3-4 times

12-18-2005, 12:02 AM	#4
sostrows Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 780	folks take even more chances once you hit 60. removal of the death/debt penalty has changed the way grps xp for sure

12-19-2005, 06:44 AM	#6
Persi General Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 66	I too agree that its the dps person's fault if he gets aggro. I'm an assassin and I rarely ever get aggro away from the MT. If the dps player in your group is having trouble with aggro, it's usually because he just doesn't know how to play his class. Orontes 42 Human Assassin Unrest

12-20-2005, 10:28 PM	#8
sostrows Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 780	if you move to one of the new PvP servers, you'll be able to debuff a group member if their of opposite city. funny.

12-23-2005, 08:16 PM	#10
pist Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 31	If your tank stays alive, and your group isn't wiping unless its because of some serious adds or something, you're doing fine.

12-23-2005, 09:25 PM	#11
Broomhilda Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 363	How to know if your a good healer? Well it depends on many things. Reputation is one. When grouping, people that you play with will know if your a good healer by your play style. While keeping the group alive is the main objective, all experienced players know when things get out of hand (dps pulling aggro several times, adds, etc), no one healer can perform miracles. Those that expect you to perform miracles regardless of their actions (like pulling aggro) are people you don't need to group with again and dont understant healing in the game. They are the people that dont know how to play thier class and like to blame the healer, tanks, whomever, for their subsequent deaths. We have all had experience with these types. Thankfully I am past the levels where I meet alot of these types and most of the people I group with are pros that know what their doing. We can go thru the tuffest instances (poets palace, tables, etc.) with me solo healing with absolutely no deaths. We need to remember that a group must act like TEAM Players. The success of any group is based on the actions of ALL the group members, not just the infamous tank/healer. Last is your own self assessment. How do you feel your doing? Are you making the most of your abilities? Are you working to obtain your master/adept3 heals and wards/debuffs? And most importantly, do you know your limitations? As the healer it is important that you add your imput on where your group goes to exp. I am very familiar with the group that wants to take on things way over their heads for the "phat" xp (The second they wipe they are placing the blame on the healer/tank). If some things are out of your league, dont be ashamed to say so. Dont get yourself in a situation where you are certain to fail. This isnt a popularity/ego contest. If you cant handle something, let the group know and suggest 1. they add an additional healer to the group or 2. suggest a xp spot that you know you can handle. Success in healing isnt about doing the impossible, but knowing what is possible. A good healer is only as good as the group they are in. Just my thoughts. Good luck!

12-23-2005, 10:48 PM	#12
Schirf Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 87	I have several scout characters (Swashbuckler, Dirge, Troubadour) and a number of other toons (Templar, Guardian, Warlock, etc.). Recently I’ve been playing my Dirge in a trio with a Defiler (my wife), and a Paladin (my daughter). We group with others often, but are pretty efficient as a self-contained leveling group. While I can take agro from the Paladin, as a scout I also have the tools needed to give it right back to the Paladin. A tank being resisted on a taunt isn’t a cause to panic. If I do a little too much damage I’ll be using my class (and sometimes racial) de-taunts. Management is an art, and is what makes the game fun. DPS classes that pull a mob off a tank have to know how to deal with it. Sometimes it’s their fault, but sometimes it’s not. If you’re not able to throw off the agro then stand still, die, and apologize. It’s those that run or [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] that cause real heartache and frustration. How to know if you’re a good healer? You’re a good healer when you can get into a difficult situation, not panic, and work your way out of it using your subclass features without resorting to turning into a senseless non-stop generic-heal spammer. Here are some tips: Know all of your spell effects and understand when to use each. If you think you have more than one totally useless spell chances are you don’t understand the system yet. Understand that early debuffing is reducing the amount of damage you need to heal. Understand when it's too late for the debuff to have real meaning. Understand the Heroic Opportunity system and use it to do group HOs, not solo HOs. Know when to cancel the current opening chain by starting a new HO.

12-24-2005, 02:48 PM	#13
Ishnar Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 423	Which is better at the beginning of combat vs. white or better. Debuff or dot? This defiler is my first healer ever and just subclassed. I've been ignoring weakness considering it too small a debuff to be meaningful but after talking to a bard started using it again. Obviously debuffs are more useful the sooner they are cast, but the same with dots. Usually, it seems I only have time to cast one or two spells debuff/dot or debuff/debuff before I need to start warding. When solo I've also been pulling with my dot. I've still got a ways to go. I keep forgetting about my fear spell until after I'm dead, and I've been trying to split my heals between the rogues and the fighter and myself, but being a woodelf my mana pool is still lower than my HP. Hopefully I'll be able to change that with better equipment. With the above comments in mind, from now on when a dps pulls aggro I'll cast once or twice but after that I'll stop, because splitting my heals between 3 or more makes me run out of mana and leads to party wipe. If I had let the rogue die I might have been able to save the party......I see that now. I haven't really been panicing, I just misunderstood my responsibilities. My goal isn't to keep everyone in the party alive, it's to keep someone in the party alive. Right? Also, It seems my casting times are so long that if any mage gets aggro they are toast before my heal goes off. I'm also still making the mistake of hitting my long cast heals when the tank is in the red. Yea, I know. I'm trying though. I do it less. I'm glad I took defiler though. The debuffs and dots make me feel like I'm playing a regular class practically. And BC is so beautiful I practically want to cry.

12-25-2005, 09:54 PM	#14
t0iletduck Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 212	I usually go with the debuffs that slow the mobs attack speed and go from there. It buys some time to land more debuffs before you have to ward and heal. As for the rest of it, practice makes perfect. And you are correct, it is better to let a scout or mage kiss dirt if they pull agro. Running out of mana or getting agro yourself trying to heal someone besides the tank is a recipe for a wipe. It is easy to get in the habit of trying to toss heals out to everyone, but you'll get over it. If the scout or mage keeps dying from pulling agro too much, they usually get the hint to keep the dps down a notch. When you choose racial traits, go with wis, power pool, and in combat mana regen when possible. Higher power pool means more fun for everyone.