Mystic nerfed

[Chu]

All,

To any other mystics out there, I apologize in advance if anyone is offended.  Having said that...I will now RANT.

 

It would appear in the last several weekly updates (or somewheres not too far from there) they, being SOE, has elected to COMPLETELY NERF MYSTICS.  Yup, it's true.

 

How is it that a chain class, a secondary healer class, and more or less a warding class actually gets placed in the position of having to more or less become a weakling melee class?  Good question, isn't it?

 

I'm a lvl70 mystic who is absolutely irritated to no end.  I have a whopping 4 damage spells.  Two DD and two DOT.  Once upon time I could sack mobs from behind the front line and was able to lob, albeit WEAK, damage spells. 

 

As of right now today, I've logged my mystic only to discover that 3 of the 4 damage spells I have now, have a range of 5 meters.  To clarify, expletives deleted and to protect the innocent, I now have to be within physical striking distance to hit anything.  In case you weren't aware - this is totally ridiculous.

 

To add insult to injury, the god selection for a mystic is not well-suited to this class - just as an added bonus.

 

So....I'll readily admit that I am totally mystified as to why somebody at SOE thought this was a great idea.  IMHO it isn't a great idea - rather one that puts me in the position of shelving this toon and NEVER playing it again.  Doesn't say much for aspiring to lvl70 in this class does it?  Go figger.  Having said all that, I will also readily admit I don't know everything and if someone sees the value please impart your wisdom on me so I am aware of perhaps a better approach to playing this toon.

 

Yours Truly,

 

 

One seriously miffed bear hat wearing nerfed mystic

 

Trelidane

LVL70 Mystic

Nektulos Server

[Reebbo]

you know your not required to invest your AA's in the combat line right?

[Fippe]

From AA u get a choice to transform your dmg spells to melee ca. Thats what the description of the AA say and that's what happen if you put points there so I really fail to se the problem. If u want to keep your damage ranged then dont invest AA in that line. I still think it's a good option for ppl that solo (though I fail to see the point to solo with a Mystic in general) since you will get a quite significant dps increase and also less inperrupts from the melee line.

Nerf? Well personally I would give up all my dmg spells (incluting auto attack) to be able to buff more HP then defilers :smileyvery-happy:

[Banditman]

The other thing to remember is that if you go with the AGI line in the KoS AA's, and take melee crits to 100% all of those CA's get boosted further by that.

[AziBam]

Secondary healer class???  Hrm.   Going to leave that alone as it's just wrong.More directly to your point though, as above posters have said you CHOOSE the AAs and if you combine that with melee crits it's actually decent dps for a healer.  The other thing is, you still have your spells.  Check your spellbook.  If you want to put them back on your hotbars then do so.  You must have removed them yourself already  anyway as they don't go away or get replaced on their own.  Cast away same as ever.  Kind of a waste of AAs but then the mystic AA tree doesn't really offer much that helps our core mission as healers so have at it.  Anyone brave enough to do much solo or even small group work with their mystics would regard the melee line as a huge benefit not a nerf.  I started taking it recently as I wanted to clear the solo quests in LP etc.  I think I'm going to absolutely hate giving it up when I eventually switch back to my more raid friendly AA spec in both trees. 

[Vulking]

The words Solo and Mystic are contradictory terms. :smileytongue:

 

Here is the problem with the thought process of developing a Mystic with the heavy melee AAs.  At the end of the line your dps still sucks, your soloing ability still sucks, you will still rarely solo anything beyond ^ups, and because of this you will still rarely solo. But additionally, now your other abilities also suck, because you neglected them for the dream of soloing as a mystic.  I can count on one hand the number of times I have seriously solo'ed for exp with my mystic, and still have fingers to spare, the process is just down right painful.

 

 Its simple to fix for the Devs though,  MAKE STR mean something to the MYSTIC CLASS!!!  Buffed, I sit around  580 Str close to my 600 Wis and it is utterly worthless, other than I can carry all bank boxes. 

 

 I have also wondered why the healing classes didn't get an offensive and defensive stance like fighters and scouts. So add to Strength meaning something an Offensive stance, where do considerable dps base on our strength,  but our healing is comparable to a monk, and a Defensive stance, where our dps sucks, and our healing is normal. 

[Harvash]

Ok, my very first toon was a dwarf mystic, from reading the description I felt this was a combo class...melee and spell.  Wrong as I may have been, I did enjoy the class and took him to about level 40, as I learned the game and created more toons, this toon became pretty dusty and was deleted to make room for my Brig, who is now 70.

Flash foward about year, year and half...and with a guild lacking a mystic, I rerolled another, now level 45...and really enjoying it.  I had shelfed him in favor of a tank class when EoF came out to suit my small group of friends.  Now, I have come back to play this toon and I am wading thru the myriad of options on the AA tree.  I have elected a melee heavy mystic tree and the STA and INT lines in the shammy tree.

The results have been nothing less then astounding to me, perhaps the time spent on my scout/tank has really helped me understand whats happening here. For starters my DPS (yes, mystic...no snickering) has improved  A LOT.  No more interrupts on damage spells, faster casting heal lines, improved health..even dogdog seems to have been given a little bite (pun intended).  In short, I could not be happier. 

As far as solo/small group, I could not disagree more with a few of the posters here...the difference is night and day.  Not sure why people knock the mystics ability here, sure the fights can take longer, but the bottom line is I DON'T DIE unless i have gotten stuck on stupid, all content is soloable, inlc low blue con heroics.  No, I wouldnt make a habit out of attacking these critters...but no toon I have would, with the possible exception of my Monk (and they now have their own set of issues)

Last, as a raider, melee conversion means I can keep those Dots and DDs rolling without sacrificing time on healing this equals more effective dps and healing - always a good thing for a shammy who is often times the MT group healer.

Just my opinions and would luv to here from those that have experimented as well... both good and bad.

[Vulking]

I experimented with the melee AAs, but after I went through the second 10 plat re-spec, it got cost prohibitive to experiment. 

You want to build a melee mystic?  Go ahead, knock yourself out.  

 I only point out the fact that your dps will still suck, and that mobs will still take "forever" to kill.  Frankly, I don't have the kind of time it takes mystics to solo kill mobs for any appreciable gain be that exp or farming mobs for gold.  I much prefer to take my warlock out for that. 

Super simplified example:  Mob'x" has 10,000hp.  Your best hits do around 700+/- 150 damage, give or take.  So it takes you around 10-15 hits to kill it using just spells.  Melee and spells combined you could probably wittle that down to 7-10 hits with spell damage.  Take a wizard or warlock out there, 3-4 spell hits, mob dead.  Never mind the damage the mob puts out, its not enough to really hurt the caster, so healing isn't even a factor.  Basically, caster classes can mow thru encounters at 3x to 4x the pace that a mystic can, without healing ever becoming a factor. 

So you sit back and say, "well some classes are better at soloing than others"  and I say " your god-damned right, now go use them, you mystic ain't one of them".

 

Look, I play a mystic as my main, I must like them for a reason. :smileyhappy:

 Its not to knock the class, I love this class, its just to argue the point that the Devs have thrown us a lot of, what I consider useless abilities in order to turn us into something we are not (soloists).  But if we are intended to be melee healers, alot of other things need to change too.

Message Edited by Hammarus on 01-17-2007 11:06 AM

[Banditman]

I was testing a little bit last night, having recently gotten rid of dogdog (the whole love/hate relationship swung heavily into hate after a rather trying run thru MMIS).Right now, with zero AA's into the Mystic CA AA's, I'm getting in the neighborhood of 350 DPS.It takes me about 25 seconds to kill a blue, no arrow solo mob.  Zero danger.It takes my Conjuror about 15 seconds to kill the same mob.  Zero danger.I need about 650 DPS to be the solo'ing equal (against solo con mobs mind you) of a Conjuror.  I think that the melee CA's might do it.I simply cannot ask for any more than that from my Mystic.Look, I know I've got to invest points in all the augment stuff.  That's what a raiding Mystic needs to do.  However, after all that's done, I still think I'll have enough leftover AA's on the path to 100 to get myself most of the melee ones as well, if I choose to do so.For me, perhaps it's not as attractive since I can simply log my Conjuror if I need to farm for cash.  For those who don't have that same option, perhaps that is a very attractive option.

[AziBam]

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Hammarus wrote:

I experimented with the melee AAs, but after I went through the second 10 plat re-spec, it got cost prohibitive to experiment. 

You want to build a melee mystic?  Go ahead, knock yourself out.  

 I only point out the fact that your dps will still suck, and that mobs will still take "forever" to kill.  Frankly, I don't have the kind of time it takes mystics to solo kill mobs for any appreciable gain be that exp or farming mobs for gold.  I much prefer to take my warlock out for that. 

Super simplified example:  Mob'x" has 10,000hp.  Your best hits do around 700+/- 150 damage, give or take.  So it takes you around 10-15 hits to kill it using just spells.  Melee and spells combined you could probably wittle that down to 7-10 hits with spell damage.  Take a wizard or warlock out there, 3-4 spell hits, mob dead.  Never mind the damage the mob puts out, its not enough to really hurt the caster, so healing isn't even a factor.  Basically, caster classes can mow thru encounters at 3x to 4x the pace that a mystic can, without healing ever becoming a factor. 

So you sit back and say, "well some classes are better at soloing than others"  and I say " your god-damned right, now go use them, you mystic ain't one of them".

Look, I play a mystic as my main, I must like them for a reason. :smileyhappy:

 Its not to knock the class, I love this class, its just to argue the point that the Devs have thrown us a lot of, what I consider useless abilities in order to turn us into something we are not (soloists).  But if we are intended to be melee healers, alot of other things need to change too.

Message Edited by Hammarus on 01-17-2007 11:06 AM

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Regarding solo I am not quite of the same opinion.  We certainly aren't going to solo yellow con named heroic mobs like some other classes are able to.  If that's what you want to do then, you are absolutely correct, you should pick another class.  Even with those classes you will die often in the attempt.  However, the "dps" oriented AAs make it much more viable to do your own quest work (solo quests) with far less tedium and time consumption.  I doubt I'll average the 650 dps that Banditman noted in his post above this but 100% crits with the Blackscale Maul plus double attacks (bottom of AGI line) are making it  a reasonable effort.  Heck, I'm downright having some fun on this little solo kick I'm on.   I don't think the intent is to turn us into the best soloers around but it does make it so that in fact the words solo and Mystic might just be acceptable in the same sentence.  

[MRRX]

The new combat arts are making it much more *fun* to solo with my Mystic.     One tidbit about combat arts - they are reportedly affected by STR, instead of INT.     Strength is either my #1 or #2 attribute most of the time, so I'm getting a very large boost in DPS, and can quit worrying about my INT.     Far cry from nerf - these things are a godsend to me.

 

The arts make it actually meaningful to get my XP post 70, because each one improves my ability to solo by small margins.    Working on maxing out the arts, weapon mastery, then I'll go heavier into the Agility line and maybe I'll pull off my dream - soloing green ^^^'s.     IE, all or most of them rather than a handful of exceptions.

 

Combine this with a good damaging deity miracle/blessing choice - say, Sol Ro's Incinerate - and I can now get more heroic content.    This makes questing so much easier, and I can bother less people with my questing insanity.   What deity choice is this causing the complaint, exactly ?    You can take any of them except for the evil ones, so that's 6 choices.   

 

The range issue I solved by having my arts on my main hotbar, replacing the spells.     But I also have a subsidiary hotbar with each spell on it, in case I'm in an easy group and need spells, or if I want to pull with something damaging instead of our Ancients debuff.

 

Unlike some of yall, I can't solo green single ^^^'s without that, and groups kill me too often to attempt them.    Then again, my gear is still Treasured/Legendary though I'm lusting after that Fabled 2-handed spear that I see on the broker sometimes.

 

MrrX's Character Journal

 

Message Edited by MRRX on 01-17-2007 12:10 PM

[Banditman]

I think you're going to surprise yourself if you go full 5 ranks in the CA's and AGI with full crits.Basically, you'll hit those DPS numbers because you'll be able to blow out all your attacks in under 3 seconds.  A weapon like Serpentine Skewer also helps give you another CA to fire off down the AGI line.  Adorn it with another damage proc and go to town.I bet you can get 550 easy, 650 if you work really hard.

[Eepop]

As far as I can see, theres not a whole lot of reason not to take the melee AAs. Maybe its just the way I play, but I want to be the best I can in all situations, not just one.  The one thing overwhelmingly that a mystic lacks is DPS, so I will take what I can get. In KoS, you can get the STR line for raids, and down through 100% melee crits in AGI for everything else. In EoF, you can get all the buffing AAs for raids, and get the combat arts for everything else. What you "lose" to have the option of being a melee mystic when needed is truly minimal.  Is it the absolute best thing for raiding, no, not really.  But With just the Dog Ward procs and enhanced buffs, you will still do darn well in raids.  And with the melee stuff you can at least solo some quests, contribute DPS to groups from size 2 to 6.

[Vulking]

____________________________________

MRRX wrote:

...............One tidbit about combat arts - they are reportedly affected by STR, instead of INT. ................................................ ............................

____________________________________

Where did you see this?

[thedu]

Think it's been that way since LU13...

Message Edited by thedump on 01-17-2007 01:43 PM

[AziBam]

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Banditman wrote:I think you're going to surprise yourself if you go full 5 ranks in the CA's and AGI with full crits.Basically, you'll hit those DPS numbers because you'll be able to blow out all your attacks in under 3 seconds.  A weapon like Serpentine Skewer also helps give you another CA to fire off down the AGI line.  Adorn it with another damage proc and go to town.I bet you can get 550 easy, 650 if you work really hard.

---

I have the skewer but was sadly disappointed to realize that the AGI weapon requirement is for a 2handed spear or great spear rather than just...a spear.  Since the skewer is a 1 hander it doesn't work for that attack.    I have the doomwing (rage?) warfork, or whatever it's called, that I can swap for the extra attack.  Nothing special but gets the job done if I remember to use it.  I picked up the blackscale maul for a steal off the broker at 85g the other night.  Since the top end damage on that lists as over 500 I absolutely love it.  Better yet if you do a /weap you will get the "real" delay and damage range on whatever weapon you have equipped.  With our STR buffs giving us a natural boost the top end is over 700 for me which means a 700+ hit every time with the 100% crits and they can range up into the 900s.  Add the double attacks and haste procs from the end line of AGI and it's a lot of fun.  I buffed up the dog with as much haste as possible.  I also finished up FBSS finally to get the extra 15% haste in order to get that huge 8 second delay down some.   Now, I know I'm going to have to either give up the end of AGI or really and truly get next to nothing from the dog on raids.  For the short term though, I can relish the extra boost.  Right now I'm the only shaman coming to the raids for our alliance and almost wish some Defiler would level up and push me out of the MT group so I could keep my dps as is.    At a minimum I think I'll have to give up the end of the AGI tree by Saturday in order to keep the dog alive with the end of the STR tree for aura of warding to be up and going on those raid mobs.  Yeesh that last sentence was a mouthful. 

[MRRX]

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Hammarus wrote:

____________________________________

MRRX wrote:

...............One tidbit about combat arts - they are reportedly affected by STR, instead of INT. ................................................ ............................

____________________________________

Where did you see this?

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Bah make me back it up will you ? :p

Well that made it into my combat mechanics document, based on my reading of the update notes, and is implied by the fact that STR boosts auto-attack damage.      It wouldn't make much sense that INT would affect a combat art either.      Also found a general post that seemed to confirm it here.

Posts here and here also imply they'd work this way, though they are talking about other classes.

MrrX's Character Journal

[SonnyA]

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Banditman wrote:

Right now, with zero AA's into the Mystic CA AA's, I'm getting in the neighborhood of 350 DPS.

---

350 is quite decent. If I just cycle the two dots, that'll take me to about 200 dps. Not that I bother. I heal and debuff on raids and I 2box my shadowknight at the same time. He can churn out 400 dps just by autoattacking. And If I have "spare time", I spend in it mashing his buttons instead of my mystics.

My point is.. If one really want to dps, don't play a priest. Most of the people that come to this board to complain about lack of dps and soloablity really haven't set their mind to the "support class" role. I suggest you do like Bandit here. Make a dps twink. Have a taste of the other side. Much better than trying to turn your priest into a dps machine.

[Pingu_cfc]

Lately my RL has been askign for some more DPS from our non MT group healers so i decided to respec some AAs and my findings totaly contradict your post.

 

SHAMAN :

STR: 4-4-4-8-1

AGI: 4-4-8

WIS: 5

MYSTIC:

5 Foretelling            5 Ursine Auger Proc (if used with ancestry this can be made a 28% proc)

5 Mamoth                5 Galacial Cold Melee

5 Attendant

5 Avatar

5 Bolster

1 Ancestry

 

Now against 2 cube mobs (epicx4) i parsed 916 DPS and 987 DPS. (using 2H Greatspear of the Outter Rim) from princes. Here i also healed for 20%. Bare in mind is was in MT group and had dirge buffs etc.

Zone wide parse in Lyceum with this setup was 500 odd dps, my highest parse on any single mob was around 660 dps.

[thedu]

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=75568&query.id=0#M75568

Stats

• Higher Strength increases your bonus to melee damage.
• Increasing your Agility improves your chance to avoid an attack.
• Higher Intelligence increases your bonus to spell damage.
• Increasing your Wisdom improves your resistance to arcane damage types (Heat, Cold, Poison, Disease, Magic, Divine, and Mental).
• The effectiveness of Strength, Agility, Intelligence, and Wisdom buffs has been increased. Buffing these attributes provides an increasing benefit up to 7 times the character's level. For example, a level 30 fighter will receive an increasing melee damage bonus up to 210 Strength, while a level 40 wizard will receive an increasing bonus to spell damage up to 280 Intelligence.

The thing is though that STR never really that much for mystics because our base DPS modifier wasn't adjusted to take advantage of this; now if AP's will do that then it might be worth pursuing if your going to more of a melee mystic..

[Owlbe]

STR does effect mystic base damage and CA attcks. Damage bonuses with str does not change the weapons damage when you view the weapon (unlike when you add int the spell damage will do up and you'll see it). The ca's will actively change though with added str. To see your proper modified weapon damage type /weap and you'll see your weapons stats modified with your str. You'll see that the damage boost is quite large, not as good as a real warrior but still not bad.

Message Edited by Omegarhino on 01-18-2007 03:12 PM

[icetower]

I have shelved the dog and respecced to melee in both Shaman and Mystic AA trees , also taken the augment line for +3% procs.

To use the + proc to my advantage I have a signet of light from darkness and if solo, I equip tunic of shadowed songs, which both proc damage (5% base chance + 3% = 8%) when hit. The signet also heals when the proc goes off. These items are easily obtainable from obelisk instance in LFay and the tunic is tradeable and will be on broker.

I have also added a damage proc augment to my blackscale maul, and with bear claws AA, it adds to my hits regularly.

I have considered buying imbued legs and bp for some extra proc damage, but the other stats on those items aren't too flash.

Overall I am satisfied with my solo "farmability".

For example if I need some quick cash I can cast wards then waltz into a full bummer gang camp in LP (6-8 mobs) and waste them all in about a minute. Being constantly hit means that rage is always up, so with cloak of flames I hit hard and relatively fast. around to the attacking mobs that have got the largest remaining hps to try and keep all mobs dropping health equally. This maximises my "free" damage from circle of ancients and the damage shield type procs.                                      Collect drops, rinse and repeat.

If I bite off more than I can chew and my hp is dropping too fast I cast enhanced oberon and let them gradually beat themselves to death while the signet heals me up again.

I haven't tried many ^^^ mobs yet but did solo koturah in SoS the other day (68 ^^^) after I was helping someone near the gorg pit (thx master chest =p). p.s. using enhanced sow I was able to run all the way from the entrance to the gorg pit which was kinda fun.

Think I will try the named spider in drednever crash site just as a comparison because thats one mob I didn't have the dps to solo in the past.

Message Edited by icetower on 01-24-2007 04:08 PM

[Banditman]

And I think that those particular AA's are doing exactly what was intended.Many Mystics don't have the benefit of a highly solo'able alt / second main.  In those cases, the CA / Melee crit route is a viable choice.That particular AA line is certainly well placed and balanced.  It gives Mystics the ability to solo with far less aggravation than in the past while not making them ridiculously overpowered in other venues.I wish I could say the same for our resurrections line. 

[AziBam]

The other quick and very easy way to prove to yourself that STR affects the melee arts is to inspect them with Ursine Auger on....then cancel it and reinspect.  You will see that the damage range has dropped.  (For anyone who wants to see it with their own eyes.) 

[thedu]

This is my conundrum right now. I want to be able to solo somewhat but at the same time Raid effectively as well.  I have full STR and INT lines, but for the life of me I just can't decide what to do on the Mystic tree.

[Eepop]

Drop the int line and get AGI, then get buffs and combat arts from the Mystic tree.  Will you be the absolute best raiding specced mystic? No, but the amount that you give up by dropping the INT line really isnt much, and what you stand to gain in other areas is significant. And once content starts to become "farm-status" for your raiding force, having higher melee DPS will be better than a little more resists.

[Banditman]

Honestly?I recently dropped both STR and INT.Dogdog finally [Removed for Content] me off for the last time.I completely acknowledge his potential value, but there does come a point where his returns from STR and INT are not of enough value to merit spending all of my 50 Shaman AA's.For me, this point comes when your raid force is hardened to the point that the extra 800 resists puts your group over 7k resist.Further, Dogdog seemed to be finding more of those "anomolous" AE's that kill him in EoF.  I'm currently driving down the AGI line for heal and melee crits, down the Wis line to Ritual of Alacrity.  Ritual of Alacrity plus Jesters Cap makes my MT grin from ear to ear.

[thedu]

Interesting. I will how to check it out.Also, I do the have the Tunic of Shadowed Song and I have to say that it parses well for damage. Really well.

[Banditman]

I need to get something sexy for my Serpentine Skewer, I really like it for solo'ing in combination with CA AA's.Probably a Runic Temper to start off with.  Maybe something more exotic if that looks good.

[MRRX]

Hmm.    I wonder what other gear I could go after for damage procs and DPS.     Stuff I have :

• Tunic of Shadowed Songs (Chest) - Nice proc, lot of damage
• Planar Orb of the Wanderer (Ear) - Collection reward with a proc and +4 piercing
• Brock's Thermal Shocker - Quest reward, good for a couple hundred damage every 3 minutes

Other than that Orb of Light and Darkness - anyone have a favorite?

MrrX's Character Journal