Indirect 'nerfing' of wards

Mattim · 02-10-2005, 10:45 AM

Moorgard posted recently "... we are improving heavy armor to mitigate 11% more damage and light armor to mitigate 35% more damage."All of these are in a series of changes being made to make fighters more of a 'tank' than a damage dealer. Unfortunately these changes will further make the disparity between cleric, druid and shaman healing evident. Since the devs supposedly read these boards, I figured it was worth mentioning.

BigDa · 02-10-2005, 03:08 PM

Oh good grief... PLEASE take mitigation into account with our wards!

Merrygr · 02-10-2005, 04:19 PM

I too noticed that and when I saw it it gave me hope. I quickly read through the rest of the patch message to read about the improvements in wards to balance this. For some unknown reason they had neglected to include it in the patch message.

Note: The above was sarcastic.

Although I don't think the change makes much of a difference by itself we seem to be getting further behind the other healers in every patch.

Chanliang · 02-10-2005, 07:38 PM

Another thing is that druids get closer to medium armor migration (medium armor was one of the reasons I choose mystic instead of druid) and well clerics get more too... We're getting longer timer for avatar yay.

Banditman · 02-10-2005, 08:22 PM

And Monks get closer to Medium armor as well. That 35% increase is a HUGE increase for Monks.

But hey! We've still got Wards! Err . . . oh yea.

rolan · 02-10-2005, 09:42 PM

any change the devs make is good for all of us dave, remeber that?

Spag · 02-10-2005, 09:54 PM

yeah for all of us that have non-mystic alts

Edit: My warlock just got his upgrade! Yea! Looks like I will be playing my Warlock more than my Mystic now.

Message Edited by Spagma on 02-10-2005 11:55 AM

Coops1 · 02-10-2005, 10:55 PM

This is definatly a bummer. I started out as a Guardian and changed to play a Mystic he is lv 30 now and I feel he is really underpowered. I now started a Wizard and am loving him, so I guess it is Wizard for the win until the Mysic gets a little lovin when it comes to wards.

leatia · 02-11-2005, 12:42 AM

They most definately will have to tune Mystics in order to accomodate recent changes.The Agility nerf (less avoidance) now coupled with a future increase in armor mitigation are both large blows to Mystics as a priest/healer class. They just further widen the reach of our healing abilities.A boost to armor mitigation was unexpected. I thought they were going to compensate the agility nerf by giving avoidance classes a small perk in dodge/parry/riposte to keep avoidance constant. It seems they are going completely the anti-mystic way of just making it so when they do get hit (unwarded), they get hit for less. Ugh.

Banditman · 02-11-2005, 02:25 AM

Take the equivalent specialty heal of Druids and Clerics. Add the values together. Divide by two. Make that the value of the Shaman Ward. Put it AFTER the mitigation.

Shaman = fixed.

A "nice" gesture would be to give the Mystic informational messages on the Wards they cast on group members . . . such as . . .

TankTank's Spectral Ward absorbed 134 points of damage!

CasterBoy's Wakinya's Skin of Spirits absorbed 350 points of damage!

PaperTank's Ancestral Ward aborbed 204 points of damage!

That surely would be nice.

Message Edited by Banditman on 02-10-2005 04:32 PM

TheRealMo · 02-11-2005, 03:05 AM

Hopefully, the impact of this increased mitigation on shaman wards will be blatantly obvious on the test server & the issue will be addressed. But I'm not holding my breath... SMILEY

Xalibur · 02-11-2005, 04:50 AM

i find myself rarely logging in anymore cos im [Removed for Content] about our class healing abilities and playing on 100% efficience to be able to heal in a normal group doing normal trash xp content might be a challenge, but sucks in the long run. (Maybe devs should rename shaman into Macgyver)

I want to enjoy this game. I like the quests, but i dont like being the healer. Its WORK, and NO FUN at all when you compare the healing abilites with the other classes. My GF got a cleric and well... its an insult if you play a templar and then again your mystic.

I guess sony has no clue what the shamans role should be. It definitly cant be the group healer. It arent mastery-debuffs. Its..hmm... ask yourself...

Potentater · 02-11-2005, 11:06 AM

I don't believe that devs even get this far into the boards.

Chanliang · 02-11-2005, 12:35 PM

I just wondering about soloing... I can now kill most solo reds at 26 and most double arrow green ones (which are 3-4 levels lower than me) it's slow tho but helps finishing lots of quests while actually gaining xp by killing quest mobs. If wards would have migration taken into account I might be able to kill low level blue ^^ group mobs in 30min :p They would hit more often than greens and would use harder spells/specials so maybe not but ^^ group greens would be trivial. Maybe SoE is afraid of that... Dunno but we could use lil help here.

Merrygr · 02-11-2005, 05:26 PM

Chanliang wrote:
I just wondering about soloing... I can now kill most solo reds at 26 and most double arrow green ones (which are 3-4 levels lower than me) it's slow tho but helps finishing lots of quests while actually gaining xp by killing quest mobs. If wards would have migration taken into account I might be able to kill low level blue ^^ group mobs in 30min :p They would hit more often than greens and would use harder spells/specials so maybe not but ^^ group greens would be trivial. Maybe SoE is afraid of that... Dunno but we could use lil help here.

Depending on where you are level wise this is pretty much normal. I don't know exactly what classes can or can not do this, but a change in our wards would not make any difference to us. When fighting a solo mob (including a green++ group one) like this it is rare for me to see my ward take enough damage to not run its full duration. So the ward is limited by duration, not by how much damage it can absorb. I do not think it would enable us to solo blue++ mobs any better since the problem on those (for me) is that I don't have enough power to kill them.

Spag · 02-11-2005, 06:49 PM

Chan,

I do not think we will all of a sudden be overpowered. I can sit and watch Clerics and Druids solo green^^ without breaking a sweat. We just want our special heal to be on the same level as the other priests. This will not help with blue ^^ since they both hit harder and their hit% is higher and have higher HP as well. Merry is right you would run OOP.

Merry,

Mine rarely last till the timer expires, although a longer timer would be nice, as I would not have to try to sneak in my ward immediately before the tank pulls.

Kalam · 02-11-2005, 11:05 PM

Yep any increase to mitigation is an indirect nerf to the effectiveness of Wards. The bottom line is Wards will become 11% less efficient on Heavy Armor classes and 35% less efficient on Light Armor wearers. Hurray for Wards! :smileyindifferent:

Mythian-Combi · 02-12-2005, 08:42 AM

Good deal for the other healers then. Shaman are blowing other healers away in terms of effectivness. Always sucks to get the nerf, but in the intrest of game balence its still a good thing.

DejaaVous · 02-12-2005, 09:01 AM

What planet are you from?

TheRealMo · 02-12-2005, 03:54 PM

"Shaman are blowing other healers away in terms of effectivness."I'm speechless. I have no response for this. Perhaps this statement is true in Bizzaroworld but not in the reality where I reside.

Spag · 02-12-2005, 09:17 PM

Well in effect his statement is somewhat true, as a shaman the wards work great since its before level 20. After level 20 is when you start to see how ineffective they can be. At that point you are a mystic or defiler, not really a shaman anymore. Although I would not say that before level 20 we were blowing anyone out of the water, but we were able to do our job effectively. How I long for the good ole days.

Spag · 02-12-2005, 09:18 PM

Mythian,

What level are you?

Fel · 02-13-2005, 01:12 AM

Mythian-Combine wrote:
Shaman are blowing other healers ...

To join their groups? For coin?

I'm lost

Novagel · 02-13-2005, 01:42 AM

Definitely, at the higher levels, wards are no that effective. They drop in matter of minutes, when mobs start hitting for 3000 a shot. I would like to see some armor mitigation to balance with the druids and clerics. I still love my mystic no matter what, but, please, let's do something about the wards! If you think mystics are overpowered, try playing one, especially up to the higher end areas.~VengaLevel 40 Mystic

Mythian-Combi · 02-15-2005, 01:51 AM

Im 50, have been for quite some time (only 9th to 50 gamewide, but still been awhile)And I don't know what you all are talking about. Every single person I play with would take a Mystic healer above any other hands down. I'm not gonna post logs and cry about how the math proves this or that. I play the game, and I can tell you that my mystic allows groups to do encounters that I've personally watched other groups wipe to repeatedly.I recomend you all play the game a bit more, play with your debuffs (you know the ones i've seen called worthless) and enjoy how much own a mystic can lay down.

Message Edited by Mythian-Combine on 02-14-2005 12:59 PM

Message Edited by Mythian-Combine on 02-14-2005 01:00 PM

Cika · 02-15-2005, 02:05 AM

Are all of you mystics [Removed for Content]' [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] or something? Your wards work great! Maybe you should reroll a different class if you can't figure out how to use your spells to their fullest extent...

Karla · 02-15-2005, 02:29 AM

I have been saying that wards are not efficient for about 3 monhts now, during that time some have agreed, some haven't, and all I can say is shaman in this game are being brought down to teh eq1 shaman level, which would be good if we got all the cool stuff shaman in eq1 got.

Basically shaman in EQ2 are debuffers, pure and simple. We are not healers, we are not damage dealers, we debuff offensive abilities of a mob, and can heal back up if needed.......

Mythian-Combi · 02-15-2005, 02:35 AM

Every 50 mystic on Mistmoore was the solo healer for thier group... I wouldn't call that back up

Karla · 02-15-2005, 02:47 AM

Mythian-Combine wrote:
Im 50, have been for quite some time (only 9th to 50 gamewide, but still been awhile)

And I don't know what you all are talking about. Every single person I play with would take a Mystic healer above any other hands down. I'm not gonna post logs and cry about how the math proves this or that. I play the game, and I can tell you that my mystic allows groups to do encounters that I've personally watched other groups wipe to repeatedly.

I recomend you all play the game a bit more, play with your debuffs (you know the ones i've seen called worthless) and enjoy how much own a mystic can lay down.
Message Edited by Mythian-Combine on 02-14-2005 12:59 PM
Message Edited by Mythian-Combine on 02-14-2005 01:00 PM

I have a 24 shaman and a 24 druid. Anyday of the week and twice on friday my druid can out heal my shaman and add nukes.

Mythian-Combi · 02-15-2005, 03:15 AM

heh, and someone was calling me out on levels. If your really upset about it, then play your druid. If you want to be a superior healer, then dont make your 915th post and go play the game instead. Level up, and I assure you mystics own closer to the end game.

02-10-2005, 08:22 PM	#5
Banditman Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,459	And Monks get closer to Medium armor as well. That 35% increase is a HUGE increase for Monks. But hey! We've still got Wards! Err . . . oh yea. __________________

02-10-2005, 09:54 PM	#7
Spag Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 788	yeah for all of us that have non-mystic alts Edit: My warlock just got his upgrade! Yea! Looks like I will be playing my Warlock more than my Mystic now. Message Edited by Spagma on 02-10-2005 11:55 AM __________________

02-11-2005, 02:25 AM	#10
Banditman Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,459	Take the equivalent specialty heal of Druids and Clerics. Add the values together. Divide by two. Make that the value of the Shaman Ward. Put it AFTER the mitigation. Shaman = fixed. A "nice" gesture would be to give the Mystic informational messages on the Wards they cast on group members . . . such as . . . TankTank's Spectral Ward absorbed 134 points of damage! CasterBoy's Wakinya's Skin of Spirits absorbed 350 points of damage! PaperTank's Ancestral Ward aborbed 204 points of damage! That surely would be nice. Message Edited by Banditman on 02-10-2005 04:32 PM __________________

02-11-2005, 03:05 AM	#11
TheRealMo General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 158	Hopefully, the impact of this increased mitigation on shaman wards will be blatantly obvious on the test server & the issue will be addressed. But I'm not holding my breath... __________________ Halfmoon - 70 Halfling Necromancer Coldmoon - 70 Barbarian Swashbuckler Moonfist - 70 Erudite Monk Moonmouse - 70 Ratonga Defiler Shadow Syndicate Najena

02-11-2005, 05:26 PM	#15
Merrygr General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 132	Chanliang wrote: I just wondering about soloing... I can now kill most solo reds at 26 and most double arrow green ones (which are 3-4 levels lower than me) it's slow tho but helps finishing lots of quests while actually gaining xp by killing quest mobs. If wards would have migration taken into account I might be able to kill low level blue ^^ group mobs in 30min :p They would hit more often than greens and would use harder spells/specials so maybe not but ^^ group greens would be trivial. Maybe SoE is afraid of that... Dunno but we could use lil help here. Depending on where you are level wise this is pretty much normal. I don't know exactly what classes can or can not do this, but a change in our wards would not make any difference to us. When fighting a solo mob (including a green++ group one) like this it is rare for me to see my ward take enough damage to not run its full duration. So the ward is limited by duration, not by how much damage it can absorb. I do not think it would enable us to solo blue++ mobs any better since the problem on those (for me) is that I don't have enough power to kill them.

02-10-2005, 10:45 AM	#1
Mattim Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 93	Moorgard posted recently "... we are improving heavy armor to mitigate 11% more damage and light armor to mitigate 35% more damage."All of these are in a series of changes being made to make fighters more of a 'tank' than a damage dealer. Unfortunately these changes will further make the disparity between cleric, druid and shaman healing evident. Since the devs supposedly read these boards, I figured it was worth mentioning.

02-10-2005, 03:08 PM	#2
BigDa Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 227	Oh good grief... PLEASE take mitigation into account with our wards!

02-10-2005, 04:19 PM	#3
Merrygr General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 132	I too noticed that and when I saw it it gave me hope. I quickly read through the rest of the patch message to read about the improvements in wards to balance this. For some unknown reason they had neglected to include it in the patch message. Note: The above was sarcastic. Although I don't think the change makes much of a difference by itself we seem to be getting further behind the other healers in every patch.

02-10-2005, 07:38 PM	#4
Chanliang Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 198	Another thing is that druids get closer to medium armor migration (medium armor was one of the reasons I choose mystic instead of druid) and well clerics get more too... We're getting longer timer for avatar yay.

02-10-2005, 09:42 PM	#6
rolan Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 24	any change the devs make is good for all of us dave, remeber that?

02-10-2005, 10:55 PM	#8
Coops1 Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 22	This is definatly a bummer. I started out as a Guardian and changed to play a Mystic he is lv 30 now and I feel he is really underpowered. I now started a Wizard and am loving him, so I guess it is Wizard for the win until the Mysic gets a little lovin when it comes to wards.

02-11-2005, 12:42 AM	#9
leatia Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 70	They most definately will have to tune Mystics in order to accomodate recent changes.The Agility nerf (less avoidance) now coupled with a future increase in armor mitigation are both large blows to Mystics as a priest/healer class. They just further widen the reach of our healing abilities.A boost to armor mitigation was unexpected. I thought they were going to compensate the agility nerf by giving avoidance classes a small perk in dodge/parry/riposte to keep avoidance constant. It seems they are going completely the anti-mystic way of just making it so when they do get hit (unwarded), they get hit for less. Ugh.

02-11-2005, 04:50 AM	#12
Xalibur Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 136	i find myself rarely logging in anymore cos im [Removed for Content] about our class healing abilities and playing on 100% efficience to be able to heal in a normal group doing normal trash xp content might be a challenge, but sucks in the long run. (Maybe devs should rename shaman into Macgyver) I want to enjoy this game. I like the quests, but i dont like being the healer. Its WORK, and NO FUN at all when you compare the healing abilites with the other classes. My GF got a cleric and well... its an insult if you play a templar and then again your mystic. I guess sony has no clue what the shamans role should be. It definitly cant be the group healer. It arent mastery-debuffs. Its..hmm... ask yourself...

02-11-2005, 11:06 AM	#13
Potentater Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 11	I don't believe that devs even get this far into the boards.

02-11-2005, 12:35 PM	#14
Chanliang Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 198	I just wondering about soloing... I can now kill most solo reds at 26 and most double arrow green ones (which are 3-4 levels lower than me) it's slow tho but helps finishing lots of quests while actually gaining xp by killing quest mobs. If wards would have migration taken into account I might be able to kill low level blue ^^ group mobs in 30min :p They would hit more often than greens and would use harder spells/specials so maybe not but ^^ group greens would be trivial. Maybe SoE is afraid of that... Dunno but we could use lil help here.

02-11-2005, 06:49 PM	#16
Spag Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 788	Chan, I do not think we will all of a sudden be overpowered. I can sit and watch Clerics and Druids solo green^^ without breaking a sweat. We just want our special heal to be on the same level as the other priests. This will not help with blue ^^ since they both hit harder and their hit% is higher and have higher HP as well. Merry is right you would run OOP. Merry, Mine rarely last till the timer expires, although a longer timer would be nice, as I would not have to try to sneak in my ward immediately before the tank pulls. __________________

02-11-2005, 11:05 PM	#17
Kalam Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 189	Yep any increase to mitigation is an indirect nerf to the effectiveness of Wards. The bottom line is Wards will become 11% less efficient on Heavy Armor classes and 35% less efficient on Light Armor wearers. Hurray for Wards! :smileyindifferent: __________________ Yahelas - Mystic Crushbone Server Inner Sanctum

02-12-2005, 08:42 AM	#18
Mythian-Combi Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 14	Good deal for the other healers then. Shaman are blowing other healers away in terms of effectivness. Always sucks to get the nerf, but in the intrest of game balence its still a good thing.

02-12-2005, 09:01 AM	#19
DejaaVous Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 27	What planet are you from?

02-12-2005, 03:54 PM	#20
TheRealMo General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 158	"Shaman are blowing other healers away in terms of effectivness."I'm speechless. I have no response for this. Perhaps this statement is true in Bizzaroworld but not in the reality where I reside. __________________ Halfmoon - 70 Halfling Necromancer Coldmoon - 70 Barbarian Swashbuckler Moonfist - 70 Erudite Monk Moonmouse - 70 Ratonga Defiler Shadow Syndicate Najena

02-12-2005, 09:17 PM	#21
Spag Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 788	Well in effect his statement is somewhat true, as a shaman the wards work great since its before level 20. After level 20 is when you start to see how ineffective they can be. At that point you are a mystic or defiler, not really a shaman anymore. Although I would not say that before level 20 we were blowing anyone out of the water, but we were able to do our job effectively. How I long for the good ole days. __________________

02-12-2005, 09:18 PM	#22
Spag Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 788	Mythian, What level are you? __________________

02-13-2005, 01:12 AM	#23
Fel General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 9	Mythian-Combine wrote: Shaman are blowing other healers ... To join their groups? For coin? I'm lost

02-13-2005, 01:42 AM	#24
Novagel Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 11	Definitely, at the higher levels, wards are no that effective. They drop in matter of minutes, when mobs start hitting for 3000 a shot. I would like to see some armor mitigation to balance with the druids and clerics. I still love my mystic no matter what, but, please, let's do something about the wards! If you think mystics are overpowered, try playing one, especially up to the higher end areas.~VengaLevel 40 Mystic

02-15-2005, 01:51 AM	#25
Mythian-Combi Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 14	Im 50, have been for quite some time (only 9th to 50 gamewide, but still been awhile)And I don't know what you all are talking about. Every single person I play with would take a Mystic healer above any other hands down. I'm not gonna post logs and cry about how the math proves this or that. I play the game, and I can tell you that my mystic allows groups to do encounters that I've personally watched other groups wipe to repeatedly.I recomend you all play the game a bit more, play with your debuffs (you know the ones i've seen called worthless) and enjoy how much own a mystic can lay down. Message Edited by Mythian-Combine on 02-14-2005 12:59 PM Message Edited by Mythian-Combine on 02-14-2005 01:00 PM

02-15-2005, 02:05 AM	#26
Cika Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 10	Are all of you mystics [Removed for Content]' [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] or something? Your wards work great! Maybe you should reroll a different class if you can't figure out how to use your spells to their fullest extent...

02-15-2005, 02:29 AM	#27
Karla Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 206	I have been saying that wards are not efficient for about 3 monhts now, during that time some have agreed, some haven't, and all I can say is shaman in this game are being brought down to teh eq1 shaman level, which would be good if we got all the cool stuff shaman in eq1 got. Basically shaman in EQ2 are debuffers, pure and simple. We are not healers, we are not damage dealers, we debuff offensive abilities of a mob, and can heal back up if needed....... __________________ Your element is Fire: Strong, hot tempered, powerful, and passionate. Well now lets see, being fire you are quite strong and powerful, people look up to you greatly and often seek your protection. You have the ability to gain many friends and you are always one people can count on to do what you say you will do. You are extremely loyal be it friends or family you'll stick up for them and you are never willing to put them in a position that could hurt them. You know what roll you play in life, leader, and you intend to let people know it. Not everyone is capable of leadership but you certainly have the willpower and flare to do it. You have quite a temper if it shows itself, one that can often lead you into trouble. Once your mind is made up there is no changing it but no one said that was a bad thing. .:-\|What is your true element?\|-:. -With Anime Pictures and detailed answers- brought to you by Quizilla

02-15-2005, 02:35 AM	#28
Mythian-Combi Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 14	Every 50 mystic on Mistmoore was the solo healer for thier group... I wouldn't call that back up

02-15-2005, 02:47 AM	#29
Karla Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 206	Mythian-Combine wrote: Im 50, have been for quite some time (only 9th to 50 gamewide, but still been awhile) And I don't know what you all are talking about. Every single person I play with would take a Mystic healer above any other hands down. I'm not gonna post logs and cry about how the math proves this or that. I play the game, and I can tell you that my mystic allows groups to do encounters that I've personally watched other groups wipe to repeatedly. I recomend you all play the game a bit more, play with your debuffs (you know the ones i've seen called worthless) and enjoy how much own a mystic can lay down. Message Edited by Mythian-Combine on 02-14-2005 12:59 PM Message Edited by Mythian-Combine on 02-14-2005 01:00 PM I have a 24 shaman and a 24 druid. Anyday of the week and twice on friday my druid can out heal my shaman and add nukes. __________________ Your element is Fire: Strong, hot tempered, powerful, and passionate. Well now lets see, being fire you are quite strong and powerful, people look up to you greatly and often seek your protection. You have the ability to gain many friends and you are always one people can count on to do what you say you will do. You are extremely loyal be it friends or family you'll stick up for them and you are never willing to put them in a position that could hurt them. You know what roll you play in life, leader, and you intend to let people know it. Not everyone is capable of leadership but you certainly have the willpower and flare to do it. You have quite a temper if it shows itself, one that can often lead you into trouble. Once your mind is made up there is no changing it but no one said that was a bad thing. .:-\|What is your true element?\|-:. -With Anime Pictures and detailed answers- brought to you by Quizilla

02-15-2005, 03:15 AM	#30
Mythian-Combi Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 14	heh, and someone was calling me out on levels. If your really upset about it, then play your druid. If you want to be a superior healer, then dont make your 915th post and go play the game instead. Level up, and I assure you mystics own closer to the end game.