Enhance: Fanaticism (Rank1) - Bugged.

[Avirodar]

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Enhance: Fanaticism (Rank1)

Removes the self-Stifle component of Zealotry and its higher level upgrades. As an alternative penalty while it is active, the Inquisitor's spell section of their knowledge book all require twice as much power and heal for much less.

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It looks good, so I worked on getting enough AAs to acquire it. I was incredibly disenchanted (to say the least) when upon obtaining the upgrade, and putting it to use, I learned that the cast time of all spells is also significantly increased. This is despite no reference to such a penalty in the description of the AA.

 

I have /bug'd this, as I can see no feasible manner that such severe penalties for a class specific enhancement are warranted.   The reduced healing - fair enough... Double the power costs - ouch but ok... Increasing all cast times on top - That is just overkill (and not declared, anywhere).

 

I hope someone from the SoE Dev staff gets a chance to read this.

 

- Avirodar

- 70 Inquisitor, Nektulos Server.

[Israphil]

It was like that in beta, but since they removed that from the description of enhance: fanaticism, I thought it was gone, and that we'd only have to deal with the hellacious penalty of the spells costing twice as much and healing for half as much. Apparently not; score. I guess there really still is NO possible way to cast spells through fanaticism with even the slightest semblence of effectiveness.

[Demoniac]

it's not a bug... it just sucks...so does the rest of the inquisitor's AAgladly we still have a choice to choose it....

[Israphil]

I'm going to take it, if only so I can use my CAs while in fanaticism. It just means I'll have to trigger it off for 4 seconds while I redo my debuffs n such. I can think of far worse fates in life. I still think it's a great addition, if only for fights in which constant healing isn't terribly necessary.

[Avirodar]

It's not a bug?

In that case, I am not sure what word I should to describe a situation, when an AA ability is subjected to a penalty, which is not listed with the other benefits/penalties, and renders the otherwise decent and fair AA ability, close to worthless..? I'd like to know

The penalty to cast times should not exist, according to the technical description of Enhance: Fanaticism (as displayed in the game). No where in any description or effect listing of the AA ability, can a reference to decreased casting speeds be found. That is the point I am trying to make, and I sincerely hope to see this one get fixed.

I simply want what is fair. When you take into consideration the <> benefits and penalties of Enhance: Fanaticism, it would be balanced. Double power costs for all spells, and almost halved healing, are severe penalties by their own right. The undeclared and significantly slower cast times, on top of the two declared penalties, is overkill.

- Avirodar Loraxian.

- 70 Inquisitor - Nektulos Server

[Tarta]

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Trinral wrote:

It's not a bug?

In that case, I am not sure what word I should to describe a situation, when an AA ability is subjected to a penalty, which is not listed with the other benefits/penalties, and renders the otherwise decent and fair AA ability, close to worthless..? I'd like to know

The penalty to cast times should not exist, according to the technical description of Enhance: Fanaticism (as displayed in the game). No where in any description or effect listing of the AA ability, can a reference to decreased casting speeds be found. That is the point I am trying to make, and I sincerely hope to see this one get fixed.

I simply want what is fair. When you take into consideration the <> benefits and penalties of Enhance: Fanaticism, it would be balanced. Double power costs for all spells, and almost halved healing, are severe penalties by their own right. The undeclared and significantly slower cast times, on top of the two declared penalties, is overkill.

- Avirodar Loraxian.

- 70 Inquisitor - Nektulos Server

---

I agree. I thought this would be a decent one to take given how often I need to bring fanat down to refresh debuffs, etc... I thought it would be a decent benefit to my group to be able to leave it up for those 7 seconds or so every 35... but now I'm not so sure.

We keep getting these AAs that are complete tradeoffs - like yaulp with the minus to focus and ministration (both of which are more important now, btw) and now enhance:fanaticism... what gives? At least yaulp was cheap at 1AA, this thing costs 5 - you'd think it would be worth something. Not to drag other classes into this, but I don't think I ever see other classes with enhancements that have such huge downsides.

With the additional news of how the CAs are shaping up in live from Demoniac, I'm feeling like I'm losing more and more viable choices to improve my inquisitor...

Counterpoint: I could take the fanatacism upgrade and the CAs and be able to do more raw DPS on raids (trash mobs) while keeping fanat up for my group... I could leave fanat up to debuff, knowing it would take longer and be more expensive... but I ask myself, is that really an improvement over my performance today?

I don't know what to do, and I have been reading these AA posts since NDA was released...  I have 6 AA points (unspent) now and I'm /puzzled. I read other inquis are happy with them.. and I just don't know what I'm missing.

[Demoniac]

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Trinral wrote:

It's not a bug?

In that case, I am not sure what word I should to describe a situation, when an AA ability is subjected to a penalty, which is not listed with the other benefits/penalties, and renders the otherwise decent and fair AA ability, close to worthless..? I'd like to know

The penalty to cast times should not exist, according to the technical description of Enhance: Fanaticism (as displayed in the game). No where in any description or effect listing of the AA ability, can a reference to decreased casting speeds be found. That is the point I am trying to make, and I sincerely hope to see this one get fixed.

I simply want what is fair. When you take into consideration the <> benefits and penalties of Enhance: Fanaticism, it would be balanced. Double power costs for all spells, and almost halved healing, are severe penalties by their own right. The undeclared and significantly slower cast times, on top of the two declared penalties, is overkill.

- Avirodar Loraxian.

- 70 Inquisitor - Nektulos Server

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that's exactly what we told devs 15 days ago...

[Chanah]

So your saying its actually not an enhance but more like a downgrade?

that would suck....

[Israphil]

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Ghyro wrote:

So your saying its actually not an enhance but more like a downgrade?

that would suck....

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There's no way it could possibly be a downgrade, since you can always choose to use it like you are still stifled (ie cast nothing while using it). So the argument that it's a downgrade is entirely invalid. With that said, however, the penalties associated with this upgraded fanaticism make it unlikely that in it's current state I will use it in conjunction with anything other than my (newly-converted) CAs. It's nice for those, but otherwise the associated penalties are just so steep. With that said, I don't really mind that since the only thing I really planned to cast with fana up is scourge, and I may have to cast that beforehand, because I don't want to pay double and have it still take 2 sec to cast. With double power cost and half healing it was already inefficient (at best) to cast reactives or anything else under the "pseudo-stifle," and debuffing is all about quickness, which it was already sacrificing.

[Spider]

ok the new fanatisism thing isnt ment to make it worth while to cast spells people its ment for u to use ur new CA's while its up so u can dish out some serious dps in between heals and in an emergancy u can throw out a small heal b4 toggling it off for a larger one

Message Edited by lspiderl on 11-19-2006 02:50 PM

[jago quicksilver]

the slowing of spells is nowhere in the description, and the double power cost and half healing effectiveness is already something that doesnt make it effective to cast spells. either way, its a bug, either mechanical or graphical.either make the AA not slow down cast times, or put that effect on the description, so everyone knows its worthless and doesnt bother going down the entire line only to have to waste a respec.

[Spider]

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jago quicksilver wrote:
the slowing of spells is nowhere in the description, and the double power cost and half healing effectiveness is already something that doesnt make it effective to cast spells. either way, its a bug, either mechanical or graphical.

either make the AA not slow down cast times, or put that effect on the description, so everyone knows its worthless and doesnt bother going down the entire line only to have to waste a respec.

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i agree it should be in the descrip but its still no where near worthless

it does exactly what its supposed to and anyone thats tried it and especialy raiders can cunderstand it

[Avirodar]

Ispiderl wrote:

i agree it should be in the descrip but its still no where near worthless

it does exactly what its supposed to and anyone thats tried it and especialy raiders can cunderstand it

+++++++++++

I am sorry, but I have to vehemently disagree with the prior posts from Ispiderl.

Enhance: Fanaticism does not do what it is supposed to. No where in the description of the ability, is any reference or indication made in regard to a penalty, regarding spell cast time. When you take the declared penalties into consideration, it is a severely excessive penalty to have slipped in.

I was one of the first inquisitors (if not the first) in the world to get "Enhance: Fanaticism" on live port. is Ryklis, a 70 Inquisitor in the guild Second Dawn (Najena), one of the premier raiding guilds in the world.  I am Avirodar, a 70 Inquisitor in Dissolution (Nektulos), one of the premier raiding guilds in the world. I assume it would be fair to say that both he and I know what we are talking about, when it comes to raiding related issues.

All in all, what is worth the cost? The more an ability is penalised, the less valuable it is. Enhance: Fanaticism costing 5 AAs to obtain is something I regarded as tough, but still within reason, when my information was the description of the ability (and its penalties) as presented in the game. If I knew a cast time penalty was also incurred, I would NOT have paid the 5 AA for the ability. Maybe right at the very end with my last 5, that is if I ever bought it at all...

Ispiderl -> "and in an emergancy u can throw out a small heal b4 toggling it off for a larger one"

Our quick heal (Devoted Ministration) with Fanaticism is a 3 second cast time at 213 power for a 410'ish hp heal.  Our big heal (Fanatical Healing) with Fanaticism off is a 2.62 second cast time at 245 power for a 1274-1679hp heal. I am sorry, but based on the figures, I do not agree with your comment about throwing out a small heal before toggling fanaticism off. It would be a massive waste of resources/time/hp/power.

- Avirodar Loraxian

- Inquisitor of Dissolution, Nektulos server.

[Demoniac]

I would like to see they disable the heals while fanaticism is up ranter than increase cast timer and power cost.i would have to agree.. it's not useless.. the aa just put it in a speical use match with CAs that's all. i guess the reason because. if it doesn't decrease the heal mount, you can do like cast fanaticism, then emergence reactive. the reacast timer will be 13.2 mins at the start point instead of 15 mins ( no aa enhanced ) when the fanaticism off.. the timer will NOT jump back to 14mins.. so basically.. that's might be issue that devs take it into concideration...

[Spider]

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Trinral wrote:

Ispiderl wrote:

i agree it should be in the descrip but its still no where near worthless

it does exactly what its supposed to and anyone thats tried it and especialy raiders can cunderstand it

+++++++++++

I am sorry, but I have to vehemently disagree with the prior posts from Ispiderl.

Enhance: Fanaticism does not do what it is supposed to. No where in the description of the ability, is any reference or indication made in regard to a penalty, regarding spell cast time. When you take the declared penalties into consideration, it is a severely excessive penalty to have slipped in.

I was one of the first inquisitors (if not the first) in the world to get "Enhance: Fanaticism" on live port. is Ryklis, a 70 Inquisitor in the guild Second Dawn (Najena), one of the premier raiding guilds in the world.  I am Avirodar, a 70 Inquisitor in Dissolution (Nektulos), one of the premier raiding guilds in the world. I assume it would be fair to say that both he and I know what we are talking about, when it comes to raiding related issues.

All in all, what is worth the cost? The more an ability is penalised, the less valuable it is. Enhance: Fanaticism costing 5 AAs to obtain is something I regarded as tough, but still within reason, when my information was the description of the ability (and its penalties) as presented in the game. If I knew a cast time penalty was also incurred, I would NOT have paid the 5 AA for the ability. Maybe right at the very end with my last 5, that is if I ever bought it at all...

Ispiderl -> "and in an emergancy u can throw out a small heal b4 toggling it off for a larger one"

Our quick heal (Devoted Ministration) with Fanaticism is a 3 second cast time at 213 power for a 410'ish hp heal.  Our big heal (Fanatical Healing) with Fanaticism off is a 2.62 second cast time at 245 power for a 1274-1679hp heal. I am sorry, but based on the figures, I do not agree with your comment about throwing out a small heal before toggling fanaticism off. It would be a massive waste of resources/time/hp/power.

- Avirodar Loraxian

- Inquisitor of Dissolution, Nektulos server.

---

I understand what your saying here bud but you have to realize that this aa ISNT so you can CAST while fanatisisim is up its so you  can use your CA's while its up giving you MORE to do while its up when your in the DPS group and allowing you to ADD more dps to the dps group

[Avirodar]

... Try actually reading the description of the AA.

 

++++++++

Enhance: Fanaticism (Rank1)

Removes the self-Stifle component of Zealotry and its higher level upgrades. As an alternative penalty while it is active, the Inquisitor's spell section of their knowledge book all require twice as much power and heal for much less.

++++++++

 

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Ispiderl wrote:

I understand what your saying here bud but you have to realize that this aa ISNT so you can CAST while fanatisisim is up its so you  can use your CA's while its up giving you MORE to do while its up when your in the DPS group and allowing you to ADD more dps to the dps group

---

 

 

If this AA "ISNT so you can CAST while fanatisism is up", please explain why SoE states that as penalties, spells require twice the power and heal for less.  If Enhance: Fanaticism was not intended to let us cast, but simply let us use the CA's, the AA would describe "Allows the Inquisitor to use Combat Art abilities while stifled" and not "Removes the self-Stifle".

 

To make a simple example : If I was playing my wizard, and taken an AA that added 20% damage to my nukes for a penalty of costing 20% more power to cast, and cost 5 AA to buy the ability, I would probably do it. But if I paid 5 AA and then tried to use the AA, only to find that my spells now take 10 times longer to cast, a penalty that is excessive and not mentioned anywhere in the description of the AA, I would be incredibly annoyed. What happened with Enhance: Fanaticism is no different, at all.

 

If you, and/or anyone else -think- that SoE only intended for Fanaticism to allow use of the new CAs, well, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But sadly, that opinion is borderline irrelevant. The fact of the matter is, Enhance: Fanaticism penalises in a manner the description of the ability does not state. Wether you agree with me or not on what the intended use of Enhance: Fanaticism is, that fact remains unchanged...

 

I want Enhance: Fanaticism to do what it states it does, as displayed in the game. The declared impact of Enhance: Fanaticism already comes with severe penalties, and I will keep saying that, for as long as I have to. And it seems a number of high end Inquisitors agree.

 

- Avirodar Loraxian

- Level 70 Inquisitor of Dissolution, Nektulos server.

Message Edited by Trinral on 11-21-2006 05:05 PM

[jago quicksilver]

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lspiderl wrote:

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jago quicksilver wrote:the slowing of spells is nowhere in the description, and the double power cost and half healing effectiveness is already something that doesnt make it effective to cast spells. either way, its a bug, either mechanical or graphical.either make the AA not slow down cast times, or put that effect on the description, so everyone knows its worthless and doesnt bother going down the entire line only to have to waste a respec.

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i agree it should be in the descrip but its still no where near worthless

it does exactly what its supposed to and anyone thats tried it and especialy raiders can cunderstand it

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what the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] are you talking about? i raid, i understand that the penalties make it absolutely garbage to anyone who doesnt turn their nukes into CAs its [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing worthless to cast a heal or spell while it is up, it might as well stifle, because anyone will still just toggle it off to heal or debuff

[Spider]

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Trinral wrote:

... Try actually reading the description of the AA.

 

++++++++

Enhance: Fanaticism (Rank1)

Removes the self-Stifle component of Zealotry and its higher level upgrades. As an alternative penalty while it is active, the Inquisitor's spell section of their knowledge book all require twice as much power and heal for much less.

++++++++

 

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Ispiderl wrote:

I understand what your saying here bud but you have to realize that this aa ISNT so you can CAST while fanatisisim is up its so you  can use your CA's while its up giving you MORE to do while its up when your in the DPS group and allowing you to ADD more dps to the dps group

---

 

 

If this AA "ISNT so you can CAST while fanatisism is up", please explain why SoE states that as penalties, spells require twice the power and heal for less.  If Enhance: Fanaticism was not intended to let us cast, but simply let us use the CA's, the AA would describe "Allows the Inquisitor to use Combat Art abilities while stifled" and not "Removes the self-Stifle".

 

To make a simple example : If I was playing my wizard, and taken an AA that added 20% damage to my nukes for a penalty of costing 20% more power to cast, and cost 5 AA to buy the ability, I would probably do it. But if I paid 5 AA and then tried to use the AA, only to find that my spells now take 10 times longer to cast, a penalty that is excessive and not mentioned anywhere in the description of the AA, I would be incredibly annoyed. What happened with Enhance: Fanaticism is no different, at all.

 

If you, and/or anyone else -think- that SoE only intended for Fanaticism to allow use of the new CAs, well, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But sadly, that opinion is borderline irrelevant. The fact of the matter is, Enhance: Fanaticism penalises in a manner the description of the ability does not state. Wether you agree with me or not on what the intended use of Enhance: Fanaticism is, that fact remains unchanged...

 

I want Enhance: Fanaticism to do what it states it does, as displayed in the game. The declared impact of Enhance: Fanaticism already comes with severe penalties, and I will keep saying that, for as long as I have to. And it seems a number of high end Inquisitors agree.

 

- Avirodar Loraxian

- Level 70 Inquisitor of Dissolution, Nektulos server.

Message Edited by Trinral on 11-21-2006 05:05 PM

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hey oh brilliant one the penalties to CASTING are there because its not ment to let u seriously CAST but witht he new CA'S you can FREELY use them while its in effect

[Avirodar]

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Ispiderl wrote:

hey oh brilliant one the penalties to CASTING are there because its not ment to let u seriously CAST but witht he new CA'S you can FREELY use them while its in effect

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Thank you for acknowledging me as a brilliant one.

My point stands. Your quoted post, along with all of your posts, do nothing to stand as legitimate argument to my points. Please reply if you develop a valid point in reference to the arguments I have presented.

Have a nice day, and good luck with the thread trolling.

- Avirodar, 70 Inq of Dissolution, Nektulos server.

[quasigenx]

The description should match the effects; that's a bug. But I think it will be fixed by changing the UI text, not the actual effects. I'm quite sure all the penalties are intended.Basically, the devs could have made this spell just remove the stiffle from the battle line abilities only. Instead, they went a step further and allows us to cast heals while it's up. Granted, there are severe penalties, as there should be.But it's funny that they could have gotten around all this complaining by basically making the spell worse.

[Avirodar]

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Rckmer wrote:

It was like that in beta, but since they removed that from the description of enhance: fanaticism, I thought it was gone

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What Rckmer has indicated, is that the penalty of spell casting duration existed on beta, and was declared in the description of Enhance: Fanaticism on beta? This means that someone from SoE has gone to the physical effort of modifying the description of the AA, and removing the reference of cast durations from the description? Logic would dictate that this change was made because Enhance: Fanaticism was no longer intended to have the said penalty. Otherwise, there is no reason the description would have been changed?

But ultimately, I honestly don't care how something worked on beta. On live port, I expect things to do what they state they will do.

Simply put, and I will keep on saying it... I "purchased" something that penalises me in a manner that was not stated, even in the "fine print" (description of the ability). That is plain wrong and I am calling SoE out on it (via this thread and a /bug report). I really want to see the cast time penalty removed from Enhance: Fanaticism.  Wether SoE Devs agree with me or not, is up to them, but ultimately, a fix is required because a problem does exist.

- Avirodar

[ericshaitan]

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Trinral wrote:

- Avirodar

---

Pft.... Stop trying to be DPS.  Go be heal some one.  And gimme a 2 hander.

[JmSte]

This calls for a free AA respec pls!

 

I still think the enhancement is junk overall.  However, if the description originally said increased cast times in beta and they took it off when it went live, it would make sense that they intended to remove the effect and will eventually fix it.

[Spider]

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Trinral wrote:

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Ispiderl wrote:

hey oh brilliant one the penalties to CASTING are there because its not ment to let u seriously CAST but witht he new CA'S you can FREELY use them while its in effect

---

Thank you for acknowledging me as a brilliant one.

My point stands. Your quoted post, along with all of your posts, do nothing to stand as legitimate argument to my points. Please reply if you develop a valid point in reference to the arguments I have presented.

Have a nice day, and good luck with the thread trolling.

- Avirodar, 70 Inq of Dissolution, Nektulos server.

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what you mean your insightful argument that it makes it worthless to cast when that ACCUALY ITS INTENDED  FUNCTION  ?

[jago quicksilver]

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lspiderl wrote:

---

Trinral wrote:

---

Ispiderl wrote:

hey oh brilliant one the penalties to CASTING are there because its not ment to let u seriously CAST but witht he new CA'S you can FREELY use them while its in effect

---

Thank you for acknowledging me as a brilliant one.

My point stands. Your quoted post, along with all of your posts, do nothing to stand as legitimate argument to my points. Please reply if you develop a valid point in reference to the arguments I have presented.

Have a nice day, and good luck with the thread trolling.

- Avirodar, 70 Inq of Dissolution, Nektulos server.

---

what you mean your insightful argument that it makes it worthless to cast when that ACCUALY ITS INTENDED  FUNCTION  ?

---

only the person who developed our AAs can say what its intended function is, everything else is just speculation. as it stands right now, there is no text about the increase in cast times, so either the text is bugged or the spell is bugged. as far as anyone who thinks that this would be useful with the increase in casting times, because you cant wait to mash your new combat arts, [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] you, if you want to do damage, roll a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing scout or a mage, or even a tank. We are healers, end of story. they have been making our class less and less like its actual description, the battle priest was supposed to be a fury, not an inquisitor.

[Spider]

/sigh

idiot

 

[Demoniac]

Well.. I do have some further thought about the next expansion... so basically everyone gets the new AA damage stuff...question 1. do I have to bother to get the new spells since they are useless?question 2. the new spell damage will overcome the CA damage?

question 3. if the spell damage rules again, does it mean the entire EoF aas will be pure useless? what about new enhanced fanaticism?hmm... just a thought :smileywink:

[Chanah]

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jago quicksilver wrote:

We are healers, end of story. they have been making our class less and less like its actual description, the battle priest was supposed to be a fury, not an inquisitor.

---

Tell me why are you wearing plate armor?

[Avirodar]

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Ispiderl wrote:

what you mean your insightful argument that it makes it worthless to cast when that ACCUALY ITS INTENDED  FUNCTION  ?

---

Unless you are a game designer / developer for SoE, you are in absolutely no position to make such a statement, or refer to anyone as an idiot for not sharing your opinion. Such an attitude is simply a display of immaturity and ignorance.

Fact of the matter is, the ability does not do what its description states. No if's, no buts, no assumptions, hard fact.

Like I said in a prior post, when you (Ispiderl) have something relevant and constructive to add, please post. Do you have information from SoE Devs, that we do not, stating that the intended function of Enhance: Fanaticism, is to include a significant spell cast timer penalty?

All in all, I am glad the high-end, seasoned inquisitors of EQ2 are agreeing with me.

- Avirodar, 70 Inq of Dissolution, Nektulos Server.

PS: Ghyro, we wear plate for protection, not because we're fighters. From many sources for medieval fantasy, the "armor" of healers can range from flimsy cloth, to solid plate. I guess everyone has their own expectations, based on the books and movies they have viewed to date? I am simply saying it is by no means a new concept in the fantasy scheme, to have plate wearing healers.  

[Demoniac]

Agree... cept the heal part. we are healers, our job is to keep our group members alife. as long as these people still runing around like a dirty gnome, we are doing the job well.  any inquisitors should be able to do that unless someone is watching [Removed for Content] while playing eq2. as an inquisitor, we don't really have power issue most of time during a raid. it's all about " Always casting " debuffs, DDs, heals... always none stop healers dps is required during the raid. say, your guild can do 20000 dps in a kos raid. you have 6 healers doing no dps. that means everybody else has to do 1000+ dps to cover you [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. for heals, if we heal enough to keep our group friend alife that will be good... personal opinion though