Mitigation vs Avoidance for a Templar

zorbdan · 10-20-2005, 10:20 PM

So I play with avoidance armor on my templar . Is it a good idea to go with cloth, leather, chain on a templar ? Our mitigation is somewhat ineffective so why not wear cloth ?

I actually mix armors and find some interesting results ..

Depending on what pieces I trade out I can find a decent balance between mitigation and avoidance . One combo puts me at about 32% mitigation and almost 20 % avoidance, another combo puts me at around 36% mitigation and 16% avoidance. There are lots of armor choices for templars out there and I am still not sure what really works best.

Any thoughts ?

Many people talk about templars mitigation but is it really that effective for us ? Wouldn't an avoidance based healer be more effective ?

Jida · 10-20-2005, 10:24 PM

Personally I perfer Mitigation due to the nature of reactives. Each hit heals. Therefore the more mitigation will make the reactives more efficent. If you were hit for more than the value of the reactive, then you will constantly have to patch heal yourself. Therefore, Mit > Avoidance. But, this IMHO. Elder

SenorPhrog · 10-20-2005, 10:37 PM

I'm with Jida on that. Avoidance doesn't make sense to me because we have a lower HP pool than someone like a Guardian who can get away with Avoidance armor and when they get hit take it hard. If I'm going to get hit I prefer to take as little of it as possible. Plus as Jida said the reactives are more effective if you are taking less damage. Just my take on it.

zorbdan · 10-21-2005, 12:07 AM

ok you guys are gonna make me break out the math /cringe

mob hits for 100

mit 32 % = 68

mit 36 % = 64

avoid 20 % = 100 hits = 80 hits

avoid 16 % = 100 hits = 84 hits

64 x 84 = 5376

68 x 80 = 5440

if the numbers were only this simple then yes mitigation > avoidance , only i dont know if it works out that way .

I would have to examine things really closely and mess with gear alot but I think you can get the higher % mitigation while still keeping avoidance % up with a mix of armors .

Full plate isn't the best and full cloth isn't the best either but playing with combos of each can result in a better overall defense.

SenorPhrog · 10-21-2005, 12:28 AM

zorbdan wrote:

ok you guys are gonna make me break out the math /cringe

mob hits for 100

mit 32 % = 68

mit 36 % = 64

avoid 20 % = 100 hits = 80 hits

avoid 16 % = 100 hits = 84 hits

64 x 84 = 5376

68 x 80 = 5440

if the numbers were only this simple then yes mitigation > avoidance , only i dont know if it works out that way .

I would have to examine things really closely and mess with gear alot but I think you can get the higher % mitigation while still keeping avoidance % up with a mix of armors .

Full plate isn't the best and full cloth isn't the best either but playing with combos of each can result in a better overall defense.

Then this would be personal choice. You also have to look at stats on the gear and where you are at level wise. At 48 based on what I paid for my gear there is no way I'm switching it up based on your math for 1% less damage. We'll even be generous and say 5%. With the mobs attacking slower and doing more damage I'd in all seriousness love to see you try it out and let us know how it works out. I just don't have the money or the motivation for that experiment.

zorbdan · 11-03-2005, 10:36 PM

I think currently the situation is if you go mitigation you take less overall damage over a long period but you get interrupted more, going avoidance may result in more damage taken but the trade off is less interrupts. Add to that templars don't tank and might only take a few hits every once in awhile in a group, avoidance is in fact > mitigation.

So as much as people say heavy armor is a bonus for clerics vs other healers it's not really that beneficial.

I am finding that depending on quality of gear generally full plate highest mitigation is not the most effective set up, often trading out a few pieces for chain or cloth you get a higher overall defense cause you may lose .1% mitigation and gain .5% avoidance.

RipFlex · 11-04-2005, 07:57 AM

Well, the use for Bucklers are now made pointless... whoopie +3% avoidance... and no blocking or parrying.

With no Blocking and parrying and we wear Plate which in this case provide very little stats to increase Avoidance.... I conclude go All out Mitigation anf grab a powerful Orb or Tome with lots of Wis/Int powers....

I'm at 10% Avoidance and over 50% Mitigation now, haven't gotten my full Cobalt plate set yet so that will increase more. I have lots of WIS and INT (since int increases nuke damage and item PROC that damage).

Timaarit · 11-04-2005, 01:14 PM

Higher avoidance means less interruptions.

RipFlex · 11-04-2005, 08:28 PM

Timaarit wrote:
Higher avoidance means less interruptions.

Absolutely right but The Avoidance you can achieve is too low to MATTER when wearing Plate and pointlessly jacking Agi.

Message Edited by RipFlex on 11-04-2005 10:29 AM

zorbdan · 11-16-2005, 02:33 AM

Is mitigation broken or not ?

Nari · 11-16-2005, 03:00 AM

zorbdan wrote:Is mitigation broken or not ?

I don't know, but my templar looks cute in platemail. It seems to work better than the cloth my squishy husband wears, but there are too many differing factors for me to provide useful data. (i.e. he is a cheapskate and has crap gear where I try to get good non-fabled gear AND he is 5 levels below me for now)

bigmak20 · 11-16-2005, 03:00 AM

zorbdan wrote:Is mitigation broken or not ?

Mitigation isn't broken it's just a less beneficial stat then avoidance. 1) Avoidance stat allows you to -avoid- interruptions. Currently a significant problem for a caster class since we have no parry and almost no block so we have nothing. 2) SOE gave avoidance a statistical advantage (I think +20%) over Mit... because... well... hmmm. The excuse is Avoidance by nature causes spikes when you get hit so it deserved a statistical advantage to smooth the spikes. Math and Physics be damned! lol Mitigation isn't broken but in gameplay avoidance is a better stat to have in most scenarios.

kenji · 11-17-2005, 08:15 AM

clearly Mit vs Avoid for Tank class is close call, as the 1 listed the number up there....

but dont forget, we are Healer... a stun hit for 100 will stun, 200 still the same, but if avoidance helped u Missed it, then u can continue your cast...

however.... atm... a hit for 5 dmg and hit for 50 dmg will still interrupt... so what's the point to have mitigation as a healer? at 55+ any ^^^ will kill u within the stun duration... thus... my templar in plate wont have chance to survive with 10% avoidance while those leather equiped class have chance dodge it...

10-20-2005, 10:20 PM	#1
zorbdan Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 230	So I play with avoidance armor on my templar . Is it a good idea to go with cloth, leather, chain on a templar ? Our mitigation is somewhat ineffective so why not wear cloth ? I actually mix armors and find some interesting results .. Depending on what pieces I trade out I can find a decent balance between mitigation and avoidance . One combo puts me at about 32% mitigation and almost 20 % avoidance, another combo puts me at around 36% mitigation and 16% avoidance. There are lots of armor choices for templars out there and I am still not sure what really works best. Any thoughts ? Many people talk about templars mitigation but is it really that effective for us ? Wouldn't an avoidance based healer be more effective ? __________________

10-20-2005, 10:24 PM	#2
Jida Fansite Staff Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 849	Personally I perfer Mitigation due to the nature of reactives. Each hit heals. Therefore the more mitigation will make the reactives more efficent. If you were hit for more than the value of the reactive, then you will constantly have to patch heal yourself. Therefore, Mit > Avoidance. But, this IMHO. Elder __________________

10-20-2005, 10:37 PM	#3
SenorPhrog Ten Ton Hammer Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Fourth Wall Posts: 1,041	I'm with Jida on that. Avoidance doesn't make sense to me because we have a lower HP pool than someone like a Guardian who can get away with Avoidance armor and when they get hit take it hard. If I'm going to get hit I prefer to take as little of it as possible. Plus as Jida said the reactives are more effective if you are taking less damage. Just my take on it. __________________

10-21-2005, 12:07 AM	#4
zorbdan Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 230	ok you guys are gonna make me break out the math /cringe mob hits for 100 mit 32 % = 68 mit 36 % = 64 avoid 20 % = 100 hits = 80 hits avoid 16 % = 100 hits = 84 hits 64 x 84 = 5376 68 x 80 = 5440 if the numbers were only this simple then yes mitigation > avoidance , only i dont know if it works out that way . I would have to examine things really closely and mess with gear alot but I think you can get the higher % mitigation while still keeping avoidance % up with a mix of armors . Full plate isn't the best and full cloth isn't the best either but playing with combos of each can result in a better overall defense. __________________

10-21-2005, 12:28 AM	#5
SenorPhrog Ten Ton Hammer Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Fourth Wall Posts: 1,041	zorbdan wrote: ok you guys are gonna make me break out the math /cringe mob hits for 100 mit 32 % = 68 mit 36 % = 64 avoid 20 % = 100 hits = 80 hits avoid 16 % = 100 hits = 84 hits 64 x 84 = 5376 68 x 80 = 5440 if the numbers were only this simple then yes mitigation > avoidance , only i dont know if it works out that way . I would have to examine things really closely and mess with gear alot but I think you can get the higher % mitigation while still keeping avoidance % up with a mix of armors . Full plate isn't the best and full cloth isn't the best either but playing with combos of each can result in a better overall defense. Then this would be personal choice. You also have to look at stats on the gear and where you are at level wise. At 48 based on what I paid for my gear there is no way I'm switching it up based on your math for 1% less damage. We'll even be generous and say 5%. With the mobs attacking slower and doing more damage I'd in all seriousness love to see you try it out and let us know how it works out. I just don't have the money or the motivation for that experiment. __________________

11-03-2005, 10:36 PM	#6
zorbdan Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 230	I think currently the situation is if you go mitigation you take less overall damage over a long period but you get interrupted more, going avoidance may result in more damage taken but the trade off is less interrupts. Add to that templars don't tank and might only take a few hits every once in awhile in a group, avoidance is in fact > mitigation. So as much as people say heavy armor is a bonus for clerics vs other healers it's not really that beneficial. I am finding that depending on quality of gear generally full plate highest mitigation is not the most effective set up, often trading out a few pieces for chain or cloth you get a higher overall defense cause you may lose .1% mitigation and gain .5% avoidance. __________________

11-04-2005, 07:57 AM	#7
RipFlex Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 131	Well, the use for Bucklers are now made pointless... whoopie +3% avoidance... and no blocking or parrying. With no Blocking and parrying and we wear Plate which in this case provide very little stats to increase Avoidance.... I conclude go All out Mitigation anf grab a powerful Orb or Tome with lots of Wis/Int powers.... I'm at 10% Avoidance and over 50% Mitigation now, haven't gotten my full Cobalt plate set yet so that will increase more. I have lots of WIS and INT (since int increases nuke damage and item PROC that damage). __________________ RipEscence Tourniquet - HalfElf Templar/Prov (70/70) RipLee TigerTail - Ratonga Monk/Wood Worker (70/54) RipJack Monterey- Ratonga Guardian (70) Riplyre Dredwind - Fae Dirge/Alch (70/30)

11-04-2005, 01:14 PM	#8
Timaarit Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,462	Higher avoidance means less interruptions.

11-04-2005, 08:28 PM	#9
RipFlex Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 131	Timaarit wrote: Higher avoidance means less interruptions. Absolutely right but The Avoidance you can achieve is too low to MATTER when wearing Plate and pointlessly jacking Agi. Message Edited by RipFlex on 11-04-2005 10:29 AM __________________ RipEscence Tourniquet - HalfElf Templar/Prov (70/70) RipLee TigerTail - Ratonga Monk/Wood Worker (70/54) RipJack Monterey- Ratonga Guardian (70) Riplyre Dredwind - Fae Dirge/Alch (70/30)

11-16-2005, 02:33 AM	#10
zorbdan Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 230	Is mitigation broken or not ? __________________

11-16-2005, 03:00 AM	#11
Nari Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Herndon, VA Posts: 356	zorbdan wrote:Is mitigation broken or not ? I don't know, but my templar looks cute in platemail. It seems to work better than the cloth my squishy husband wears, but there are too many differing factors for me to provide useful data. (i.e. he is a cheapskate and has crap gear where I try to get good non-fabled gear AND he is 5 levels below me for now)

11-16-2005, 03:00 AM	#12
bigmak20 General Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 447	zorbdan wrote:Is mitigation broken or not ? Mitigation isn't broken it's just a less beneficial stat then avoidance. 1) Avoidance stat allows you to -avoid- interruptions. Currently a significant problem for a caster class since we have no parry and almost no block so we have nothing. 2) SOE gave avoidance a statistical advantage (I think +20%) over Mit... because... well... hmmm. The excuse is Avoidance by nature causes spikes when you get hit so it deserved a statistical advantage to smooth the spikes. Math and Physics be damned! lol Mitigation isn't broken but in gameplay avoidance is a better stat to have in most scenarios. __________________ Borekai 60 Templar Asuryan 30 Warlock it all started with the Kung-fu kiddy wanna-be tanks being put in charge of game design. Leather tanks. Mage DPS'ing 'priests' healing like clerics. Dogs and cats living together. ....

11-17-2005, 08:15 AM	#13
kenji Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 718	clearly Mit vs Avoid for Tank class is close call, as the 1 listed the number up there.... but dont forget, we are Healer... a stun hit for 100 will stun, 200 still the same, but if avoidance helped u Missed it, then u can continue your cast... however.... atm... a hit for 5 dmg and hit for 50 dmg will still interrupt... so what's the point to have mitigation as a healer? at 55+ any ^^^ will kill u within the stun duration... thus... my templar in plate wont have chance to survive with 10% avoidance while those leather equiped class have chance dodge it...