Warlock Pet's Dps is Lacking...

MrGrimm9 · 11-09-2005, 07:48 PM

I am going to go ahead and make a post about this because I am sure every necro knows this but I have never seen a post about it.

The warlock pets dps is severly lacking compared to the assassin. Even if you are fighting multiple mobs. Here is some reasons why.

The warlocks high damage spells/aoe spells take a long time to cast and he does them very rarely.

The Rending Frenzy line of spells increases the dps of the pet by xx%. I believe this is only his attack speed and not his casting speed. And even if it is his casting speed. Since his cast time take so long, the odds he gets the finished blow are slim and therefore has a less of a chance to trigger berserk from RF.

The offensive stance does increase the pets INT and therefore his spell damage but the proc words of the wicked will not proc from spells, it will proc from melee. Since the warlock pet melees much much slower and is usually busy casting, the chances of this proc going off are even lower, lowering his dps potential again.

Consumption is another problem, again, since the warlock pet melees much much slower than the assassin pet, he procs consumption much less often lowering his dps potential further.

This same argument holds up for the necromantic insigna line. Since the warlock pet melees much less, he will hit less, and trigger this debuff less often. And since the debuff is on less often, his spells are not doing more damage. Thus, overall dps potential is lowered.

It seems all our pet buffs are tailored to melee pets and it shows, the warlock pet's dps is sad compared to the assassins dps in virtually every situation.

El Chupacabr · 11-09-2005, 07:50 PM

I was actually going to do some screenshotting tonight and make one of my overlong detail niggling posts about this tomorrow. It's even worse than you point out though SMILEY

.

Handleba · 11-09-2005, 08:15 PM

I agree completely. I have the master warlock pet and I want to see her drop bombs and drop them often. Offensive stance for pet should increase her casting time and much more! :smileytongue:

Notorious_G · 11-09-2005, 08:27 PM

I agree w/ OP. The mage pet is the one pet I never adpet 3. It pales in comparison to the assassin. Just posting in hopes someone from SOE might take notice. Assassin should be for high single target damage. Mage pet should be for AOE group damage. Tank, well should tank. No problems w/ assassin or tank, but please fix the mage pet.

Kniives · 11-09-2005, 09:22 PM

Excellent and constructive thread here. The comparison of all pet buff assassin / warlock is great and an eye opener. As it is, i never see any necromancer use the Warlock( me included ). Would be nice to have it get in line with other pets.*edited to remove dumb comment*

Message Edited by Kniives on 11-10-2005 09:37 AM

Eriol · 11-09-2005, 10:15 PM

Sound points. As for ideas for improvement, here's what I'd do:

Reduce the casting time of all spells to below 2s: The pet is hard enough to control as it is, and its LONG casting times are a very large hinderance. So make them much shorter. Proportionally adjust their damage output too so that it is in the correct DPS range for the casting time.
Make Higher Pet Quality Affect Pet Damage: It has already been announced that all higher quality on the casting pets for all summoners only makes their power pool greater. Which is stupid since it basically doesn't run out NOW. Instead, have it affect spell DPS.
Add another effect to all pet buffs that works "on cast": This would be to make sure that any ability also triggers on the pet casting (or % chance of course), as well as normally. Now perhaps this would need to be adjusted for the OTHER pets, since their arts probably would trigger the same mechanism, but if it can be seperate, make it an "equivalent damage" from the warlock, so that the offensive stance's proc is triggered from damage too, and same with the mark line, etc. But somehow so that those buffs are equally effective with the casting pets.
Front-load the Warlock's damage: Make quick-cast, semi-long re-cast spells part of the warlock's arsenal, letting it dump a crapload of damage up-front, rather than over-time. For super-long fights, the assassin would be the choice, whereas for fights you need to get down FAST, and/or clearing on the way to the big fight, the warlock would be the choice, as you'd get more of its DPS right away. This would need to be tested extensively so that it doesn't pull agro super-fast either, but the general idea is that this is the "BOOM" pet, whereas the assassin is better long-term.
Enforce Max Range on Epic (all?) Targets: Make a command so that we can tell the pet to get to max range, THEN start casting. This would be for the raiding necro, so that they can have a pet which RELIABLY stays out of AEs. Or SOMETHING else so that this guy doesn't run in and start trying to melee, even when completely OOP. That just causes agro transfer, which is a "bad thing".

That's IMO what could be done to bring this pet to a very useful state. It isn't horribly BAD now (like fire pet in EQ1), but it's hardly "great".

Sarkoris · 11-10-2005, 02:18 AM

I sadly have to agree with the OP. The dps of the warlock pet series as a whole is lacking. I have the Master version of this pet and its dps still parsers way below my adept III assassin or on some encounters below the tank pet. The pet just seemed to fire off spells a lot quicker in Beta making its DPS significantly higher. The 2-3 second cast time on virtually every spell it has makes it lacking.

Some simple fixes to go with the ideas given by other posters above.

Shorter cast times on most of the warlocks spells, adjusted for less damage so as to not unbalance the pet.

Pet buffs given a caster component to make the warlock pet benefit as well.

Some encounter AI for the pet. If the encounter is group mobs gthe warlock should unload aoe's almost exclusively. If the target is a solo encounter it should unload higher damage single target nukes.

This pet should be the jewel in our crown not the local joke.

Sark.

keikomon · 11-10-2005, 02:55 AM

Agree...The warlock indeed is lacking the DPS compared to a lower lvl Pet (scout)..

I got the M1 Grim and an AdeptIII assasin...The offensive stance for the pet should increase its damage, and/or casting...

Kikko

Kithicor

Truwen · 11-14-2005, 11:11 AM

Excelent, at least i know what to look forward to at ihigher levels...so far i see my warlock a decent pet for soloing if i want to solo blues fast... but from you rpost here it seems that will be less the case at higher levels. at any rate thanks for th epost. -Truwen

dlsknight · 11-14-2005, 04:32 PM

Well I am about to leave Tier 3 so the Assassin is not im my casting range yet. I can say however, that I rarely use my Mage either. Most of the time when I play my Necro it is for solo play and in that case always use my Fighter pet for obvious reasons. Have only grouped 2 times with this toon and 1 time used the Mage, but did not pay much attention to the damage output, and the other time I used the fighter pet since it was MT.

Using my Fighter pet at level 28 there is hardly an issue taking out Yellow and Orange mobs solo, non heroic, with no to very little down time.

11-09-2005, 07:48 PM	#1
MrGrimm9 Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 154	I am going to go ahead and make a post about this because I am sure every necro knows this but I have never seen a post about it. The warlock pets dps is severly lacking compared to the assassin. Even if you are fighting multiple mobs. Here is some reasons why. The warlocks high damage spells/aoe spells take a long time to cast and he does them very rarely. The Rending Frenzy line of spells increases the dps of the pet by xx%. I believe this is only his attack speed and not his casting speed. And even if it is his casting speed. Since his cast time take so long, the odds he gets the finished blow are slim and therefore has a less of a chance to trigger berserk from RF. The offensive stance does increase the pets INT and therefore his spell damage but the proc words of the wicked will not proc from spells, it will proc from melee. Since the warlock pet melees much much slower and is usually busy casting, the chances of this proc going off are even lower, lowering his dps potential again. Consumption is another problem, again, since the warlock pet melees much much slower than the assassin pet, he procs consumption much less often lowering his dps potential further. This same argument holds up for the necromantic insigna line. Since the warlock pet melees much less, he will hit less, and trigger this debuff less often. And since the debuff is on less often, his spells are not doing more damage. Thus, overall dps potential is lowered. It seems all our pet buffs are tailored to melee pets and it shows, the warlock pet's dps is sad compared to the assassins dps in virtually every situation. __________________ Medievh of Mistmoore 60 Necromancer 49 Jeweler Member of Static

11-09-2005, 07:50 PM	#2
El Chupacabr Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 850	I was actually going to do some screenshotting tonight and make one of my overlong detail niggling posts about this tomorrow. It's even worse than you point out though . __________________ Want to learn about Necromancers? Check out The Necromancer FAQ

11-09-2005, 08:15 PM	#3
Handleba Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 451	I agree completely. I have the master warlock pet and I want to see her drop bombs and drop them often. Offensive stance for pet should increase her casting time and much more! :smileytongue: __________________ Shadoweyz of The Rallosian Guard Level 70 Brigand Befallen Server I always edit for content, not grammar!

11-09-2005, 10:15 PM	#6
Eriol Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,125	Sound points. As for ideas for improvement, here's what I'd do: Reduce the casting time of all spells to below 2s: The pet is hard enough to control as it is, and its LONG casting times are a very large hinderance. So make them much shorter. Proportionally adjust their damage output too so that it is in the correct DPS range for the casting time. Make Higher Pet Quality Affect Pet Damage: It has already been announced that all higher quality on the casting pets for all summoners only makes their power pool greater. Which is stupid since it basically doesn't run out NOW. Instead, have it affect spell DPS. Add another effect to all pet buffs that works "on cast": This would be to make sure that any ability also triggers on the pet casting (or % chance of course), as well as normally. Now perhaps this would need to be adjusted for the OTHER pets, since their arts probably would trigger the same mechanism, but if it can be seperate, make it an "equivalent damage" from the warlock, so that the offensive stance's proc is triggered from damage too, and same with the mark line, etc. But somehow so that those buffs are equally effective with the casting pets. Front-load the Warlock's damage: Make quick-cast, semi-long re-cast spells part of the warlock's arsenal, letting it dump a crapload of damage up-front, rather than over-time. For super-long fights, the assassin would be the choice, whereas for fights you need to get down FAST, and/or clearing on the way to the big fight, the warlock would be the choice, as you'd get more of its DPS right away. This would need to be tested extensively so that it doesn't pull agro super-fast either, but the general idea is that this is the "BOOM" pet, whereas the assassin is better long-term. Enforce Max Range on Epic (all?) Targets: Make a command so that we can tell the pet to get to max range, THEN start casting. This would be for the raiding necro, so that they can have a pet which RELIABLY stays out of AEs. Or SOMETHING else so that this guy doesn't run in and start trying to melee, even when completely OOP. That just causes agro transfer, which is a "bad thing". That's IMO what could be done to bring this pet to a very useful state. It isn't horribly BAD now (like fire pet in EQ1), but it's hardly "great". __________________ Eriol Ancalagon A Summoner's Fall into Darkness

11-10-2005, 02:18 AM	#7
Sarkoris Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Najena Posts: 382	I sadly have to agree with the OP. The dps of the warlock pet series as a whole is lacking. I have the Master version of this pet and its dps still parsers way below my adept III assassin or on some encounters below the tank pet. The pet just seemed to fire off spells a lot quicker in Beta making its DPS significantly higher. The 2-3 second cast time on virtually every spell it has makes it lacking. Some simple fixes to go with the ideas given by other posters above. Shorter cast times on most of the warlocks spells, adjusted for less damage so as to not unbalance the pet. Pet buffs given a caster component to make the warlock pet benefit as well. Some encounter AI for the pet. If the encounter is group mobs gthe warlock should unload aoe's almost exclusively. If the target is a solo encounter it should unload higher damage single target nukes. This pet should be the jewel in our crown not the local joke. Sark. __________________

11-09-2005, 08:27 PM	#4
Notorious_G Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 49	I agree w/ OP. The mage pet is the one pet I never adpet 3. It pales in comparison to the assassin. Just posting in hopes someone from SOE might take notice. Assassin should be for high single target damage. Mage pet should be for AOE group damage. Tank, well should tank. No problems w/ assassin or tank, but please fix the mage pet.

11-09-2005, 09:22 PM	#5
Kniives Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 41	Excellent and constructive thread here. The comparison of all pet buff assassin / warlock is great and an eye opener. As it is, i never see any necromancer use the Warlock( me included ). Would be nice to have it get in line with other pets.edited to remove dumb comment Message Edited by Kniives on 11-10-2005 09:37 AM

11-10-2005, 02:55 AM	#8
keikomon Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 49	Agree...The warlock indeed is lacking the DPS compared to a lower lvl Pet (scout).. I got the M1 Grim and an AdeptIII assasin...The offensive stance for the pet should increase its damage, and/or casting... Kikko Kithicor

11-14-2005, 11:11 AM	#9
Truwen Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 25	Excelent, at least i know what to look forward to at ihigher levels...so far i see my warlock a decent pet for soloing if i want to solo blues fast... but from you rpost here it seems that will be less the case at higher levels. at any rate thanks for th epost. -Truwen

11-14-2005, 04:32 PM	#10
dlsknight Loremaster Join Date: May 2005 Location: Mistmoore Posts: 207	Well I am about to leave Tier 3 so the Assassin is not im my casting range yet. I can say however, that I rarely use my Mage either. Most of the time when I play my Necro it is for solo play and in that case always use my Fighter pet for obvious reasons. Have only grouped 2 times with this toon and 1 time used the Mage, but did not pay much attention to the damage output, and the other time I used the fighter pet since it was MT. Using my Fighter pet at level 28 there is hardly an issue taking out Yellow and Orange mobs solo, non heroic, with no to very little down time. __________________