Is there strategy?

Hurdoc · 10-25-2005, 08:37 PM

I am new to EQ2 and have an 18 Summoner in Freeport that I've been playing. Now, don't get me wrong, the gameplay with him is fun and I love the concept, but is there more strategy at higher levels? Of course, ALL games have some degree of strategy.... what targets you pick (caster vs. melee), the types of resistances, the weapon/pet you use, etc. What I mean is, at least at my young level, I seem to just send pet in and then use my one DOT and 1-2 DD spells and thats it. I understand at higher levels you get lifetaps and disease spells, but they are just forms of DOT and DD, right?

Are battle ever different? Or is it the same buttons all the way to 60?

As a counterpoint, I also played a Brigand to level 26. That is my only other character. But combat with him seems more... varied. For example, some of my attacks are positional. Solo, I may have to time my stuns and move accordingly to get a backstab. If I have multiple mobs, I have to decide which one to take out first, which one to stun. The high damage Ruse line can be used rougly once per fight, do I use it early in a multiple mob scenario and hope to take one out fast (perhaps the caster?), or save it as the coup de grace on a tougher mob if I run low on power. I understand swashbucklers even get a mez (which raises complexity more as you decide which one to take out of a fight).

I guess what I'm trying to say is that combat is a bit tougher with a Rogue. With the necro, its almost too easy. I don't have to really worry where I stand. I don't even have to move. My pet keeps aggro, and I just hit 1-2 spells intermittently so I don't get aggro.

I don't mean to sound like I'm bashing Necros. In fact, I hope to make this character my main one. I don't have firsthand experience of the higher level game, so I may be completely off base but I was hoping to hear from my more experienced comrades on this board. Thanks!

Message Edited by Hurdoc on 10-25-2005 12:37 PM

Za · 10-25-2005, 08:49 PM

Yeah there is, and it changes some over time.Necros are really a Jack of all trades kinda class. Our raw initial damage never quite matches a wizard or warlock, but over time we kick but in long haul damage.We're an ace soloing class, but in a group we can change it up and be an outstanding support player.Our 3 pet lines are very flexible. The pet tank under defensive stance can easily tank for a good group and hold agro. The warlock and scout pets do great damage in situations where that's called for.I've spot healed and saved my group MANY times. We're masters or CC when the group cooperates. Did I mention we can crank out ubber heavy dps over a long period of time?

hammong · 10-25-2005, 09:56 PM

At 46, I find that there's still not much strategy involved in killing solo conned mobs. If you take on green heroics or very high solo cons, then you may find that healing, fearing, debuffing, dotting becomes more exciting, and that you and your pet both end up with low health and a satisfying grin when the mobs are dead. For what it's worth, EQ2 isn't real heavy on strategy as EQ1 was. You can pretty much pull anything that cons resonable to your level and expect to win, and "adds" requiring crowd control are often predicable.

Za · 10-26-2005, 01:46 AM

Yeah, but if all you ever do is solo the least difficult thing you can, then you never need any stragy.Even at 46, you can solo ^ mobs or multi mob heroic groups. Thats where the fun comes in.

gr8scott · 10-26-2005, 03:23 AM

There are huge amounts of strategy considerations playing a necro

For example:

How to handle heroic groups of 3?

Strat #1: Send in the pet. Try to burn down pet's 1st target, then 2nd target, then 3rd target

Result#1: Failure. Pet can't stand up to the punishment of 3 single-ups for the time needed

Strat #2: Start with root. Send pet in on one of the 2 incoming mobs. Try to get pet with aggro before mobs kill you. Then go back to burning down. reroot as needed

Result #2: too dangerous. If pet doesn't immediately take aggro (maybe 50/50 at best), necro is crushed by aggro from two single-ups. Nice idea but not enough mob dps removed from fight.

Strat #3: Root mob A. Sic pet on mob B on incoming. target C and fear / root mob C. Burn down mob B while rooting to keep A/C under control. After B is dead, shift pet to mob A and lead with a stun (helps pet build enough aggro to overcome your initial root). After B is dead mop up mob C SMILEY

Result #3: Pretty good results. Generally win. Sometimes aggro transfer can be tricky.

Strat fails with group of 4 generally...what to do? Maybe pull with snare from max range? pet on one? root one? fear one?

You get the idea...dream up your own better strat SMILEY

Post 50, drawing of souls and charm undead are making my head spin with strategy possibilities. Using 3 spells from drawing (hp buff on pet, extra swarm pet, pet heal) on the pet + adding dps of charmed undead + adept3 or better spells makes handling blue ^^^ possible if very risky. sequence of casting makes a huge difference though. Do you cast swarm pets early? Do you cast mitigation spells early (like stun) so they can cycle for a 2nd use? Don't forget to spot heal prior to casting your siphon life and not the other way around! What pet buffs should you use with this combo? I don't know!

Sorry for the rambling, but you get the idea. I'm up to my eyeballs in strategy considerations lol!

However, I agree, not much strat needed to take out blue solo mobs though.

GS

Uanelven · 10-26-2005, 01:48 PM

Agree totally with GS. Get out of the mind set of what can be accomplished with your scout and get to know the necro tools as and when you get them. You don't need most of them solo if you aren't pushing yourself but when you find out what you are capable of when using your whole arsenal then there is a lot more to it than stun - run behind mob.

Za · 10-26-2005, 10:14 PM

I look at it this way...With my Inq, I feel pretty boxed in. There are situations where I feel completely helpless or useful. Situations were I look at mu spell bars and just shake amy head and don't see any viable options.With necro, even in the funkiest situations I see creative solutions. If a fight goes bad for some classes, all you think about is how can I die in such a way to get my shard easier. With my necro, even though we get FD, I'm usually thinking I can win this, until the very end. And in many cases, I've pulled the rabbit out at the last minute. THAT is whats cool about the necro class.

Amra-c0d · 10-26-2005, 11:32 PM

I find every fight different enough to be interesting. At level 18 you don't have a lot of tools to work with yet. Once you get around 30 you'll notice the great variety of ways you can take down obstacles. I mostly soloed so far all the way to 51 and I haven't come close to getting bored yet.

Outwa · 10-26-2005, 11:41 PM

I agree. Getting that last second fear or root to stick on a mob who would normally kick anyone elses butt, backing up and being able to recast your pet / kill the mob for the win is the ultimate rush.

When I play my Shaman I have to be pretty picky about what types of group mobs I'll take on. But with my Necro there's ALOT more options...you start looking at groups of mobs differently...instead of just dismissing the group of heroic ^ types you'd like to solo...you start thinking 'Ok, how can I pull this off' and your mind starts running through options...root, fear, pet, stun, dots...and if all fails you can always FD.

I love being a NECRO!

Murasa
Necromancer of 26 Evils
Avenging Light
Neriak server

Swill · 10-27-2005, 02:36 AM

Just started playing again and I remember why I love my necro over my other toons. Like you guys pointed out we can do some crazy stuff and go almost anywhere without fear. Being able to cheat death most of the time is a nice perk also.

I miss grouping with my necro buddy from my old guild, sure most of our spells don't stack, but we used to put on a heck of a show. With the dogs, rats, and both of our pets out pounding a mob all in skelly form. We looked like a gimpy army of the dead SMILEY Between our stuns and fears we died very little and even if we did who cared. We were both 50 and could rez each other.

If we had the new heatlh transfer spell, with the tank pet on full on assualt mode. I could only imagine the stuff we could have taken down, especially if we had our pet cleric with us. Between the limitless mana and health between us, ohhhh it would have been fun.

Message Edited by Swiller on 10-26-2005 06:37 PM

Shonin · 10-28-2005, 08:53 AM

I wanted to touch on the part of being able to pull things out of our butts. Recently I was grouping with 2 of my guild mates in Everfrost just doing writs, when we came across Brood Mother. I was 50 at the time and tanking for the 46 ranger and 47 Defiler. We decided to take her on. She is a 44 named ^^^ heroic with about 6 to 8 triple down babies with her, for those who may not know. Things are going pretty good when my pet loses aggro and she turns on me. I die so fast I don't get my FD off and they evac. Some are saying what kind of story is this, you died why are you sharing your failure. The thing is they both said they weren't really paying attention to me, because they thought I had something up my sleeve like usual. We all laughed about it then killed the Brood Mother. Necros are full of suprises and very fun. They shock the hell out of some people and even scare them. I remember casting my hounds for the first time and a person said they jumped out of their chair with flash backs of Resident Evil. Go have fun.

MrGrimm9 · 10-28-2005, 05:47 PM

Necros are so powerful because we have use in almost every situation. We can do uber dps, we can crowd control by fearing rooting and kiting if needed. We can heal (very limited but it might make the difference in the MT living or dieing). Pets for different situations, we are masters of soloing, we can FD and rez. Pretty much, necros are the jack of all trades. But unfortunately, we don't become this until the higher levels. You don't even get FD until the 40s. So it might seems like we are limited early on, but stick through it and it will be worth it in the end.

10-26-2005, 03:23 AM	#5
gr8scott Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 174	There are huge amounts of strategy considerations playing a necro For example: How to handle heroic groups of 3? Strat #1: Send in the pet. Try to burn down pet's 1st target, then 2nd target, then 3rd target Result#1: Failure. Pet can't stand up to the punishment of 3 single-ups for the time needed Strat #2: Start with root. Send pet in on one of the 2 incoming mobs. Try to get pet with aggro before mobs kill you. Then go back to burning down. reroot as needed Result #2: too dangerous. If pet doesn't immediately take aggro (maybe 50/50 at best), necro is crushed by aggro from two single-ups. Nice idea but not enough mob dps removed from fight. Strat #3: Root mob A. Sic pet on mob B on incoming. target C and fear / root mob C. Burn down mob B while rooting to keep A/C under control. After B is dead, shift pet to mob A and lead with a stun (helps pet build enough aggro to overcome your initial root). After B is dead mop up mob C Result #3: Pretty good results. Generally win. Sometimes aggro transfer can be tricky. Strat fails with group of 4 generally...what to do? Maybe pull with snare from max range? pet on one? root one? fear one? You get the idea...dream up your own better strat Post 50, drawing of souls and charm undead are making my head spin with strategy possibilities. Using 3 spells from drawing (hp buff on pet, extra swarm pet, pet heal) on the pet + adding dps of charmed undead + adept3 or better spells makes handling blue ^^^ possible if very risky. sequence of casting makes a huge difference though. Do you cast swarm pets early? Do you cast mitigation spells early (like stun) so they can cycle for a 2nd use? Don't forget to spot heal prior to casting your siphon life and not the other way around! What pet buffs should you use with this combo? I don't know! Sorry for the rambling, but you get the idea. I'm up to my eyeballs in strategy considerations lol! However, I agree, not much strat needed to take out blue solo mobs though. GS

10-26-2005, 01:48 PM	#6
Uanelven Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 465	Agree totally with GS. Get out of the mind set of what can be accomplished with your scout and get to know the necro tools as and when you get them. You don't need most of them solo if you aren't pushing yourself but when you find out what you are capable of when using your whole arsenal then there is a lot more to it than stun - run behind mob. __________________ Uanelven : - Necromancer -

10-26-2005, 11:32 PM	#8
Amra-c0d Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 14	I find every fight different enough to be interesting. At level 18 you don't have a lot of tools to work with yet. Once you get around 30 you'll notice the great variety of ways you can take down obstacles. I mostly soloed so far all the way to 51 and I haven't come close to getting bored yet. __________________ Argaul 51 Necromancer of Lucan D'Lere

10-27-2005, 02:36 AM	#10
Swill Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 73	Just started playing again and I remember why I love my necro over my other toons. Like you guys pointed out we can do some crazy stuff and go almost anywhere without fear. Being able to cheat death most of the time is a nice perk also. I miss grouping with my necro buddy from my old guild, sure most of our spells don't stack, but we used to put on a heck of a show. With the dogs, rats, and both of our pets out pounding a mob all in skelly form. We looked like a gimpy army of the dead Between our stuns and fears we died very little and even if we did who cared. We were both 50 and could rez each other. If we had the new heatlh transfer spell, with the tank pet on full on assualt mode. I could only imagine the stuff we could have taken down, especially if we had our pet cleric with us. Between the limitless mana and health between us, ohhhh it would have been fun. Message Edited by Swiller on 10-26-2005 06:37 PM

10-28-2005, 05:47 PM	#12
MrGrimm9 Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 154	Necros are so powerful because we have use in almost every situation. We can do uber dps, we can crowd control by fearing rooting and kiting if needed. We can heal (very limited but it might make the difference in the MT living or dieing). Pets for different situations, we are masters of soloing, we can FD and rez. Pretty much, necros are the jack of all trades. But unfortunately, we don't become this until the higher levels. You don't even get FD until the 40s. So it might seems like we are limited early on, but stick through it and it will be worth it in the end. __________________ Medievh of Mistmoore 60 Necromancer 49 Jeweler Member of Static

10-25-2005, 08:37 PM	#1
Hurdoc Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 96	I am new to EQ2 and have an 18 Summoner in Freeport that I've been playing. Now, don't get me wrong, the gameplay with him is fun and I love the concept, but is there more strategy at higher levels? Of course, ALL games have some degree of strategy.... what targets you pick (caster vs. melee), the types of resistances, the weapon/pet you use, etc. What I mean is, at least at my young level, I seem to just send pet in and then use my one DOT and 1-2 DD spells and thats it. I understand at higher levels you get lifetaps and disease spells, but they are just forms of DOT and DD, right? Are battle ever different? Or is it the same buttons all the way to 60? As a counterpoint, I also played a Brigand to level 26. That is my only other character. But combat with him seems more... varied. For example, some of my attacks are positional. Solo, I may have to time my stuns and move accordingly to get a backstab. If I have multiple mobs, I have to decide which one to take out first, which one to stun. The high damage Ruse line can be used rougly once per fight, do I use it early in a multiple mob scenario and hope to take one out fast (perhaps the caster?), or save it as the coup de grace on a tougher mob if I run low on power. I understand swashbucklers even get a mez (which raises complexity more as you decide which one to take out of a fight). I guess what I'm trying to say is that combat is a bit tougher with a Rogue. With the necro, its almost too easy. I don't have to really worry where I stand. I don't even have to move. My pet keeps aggro, and I just hit 1-2 spells intermittently so I don't get aggro. I don't mean to sound like I'm bashing Necros. In fact, I hope to make this character my main one. I don't have firsthand experience of the higher level game, so I may be completely off base but I was hoping to hear from my more experienced comrades on this board. Thanks! Message Edited by Hurdoc on 10-25-2005 12:37 PM

10-25-2005, 08:49 PM	#2
Za General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,084	Yeah there is, and it changes some over time.Necros are really a Jack of all trades kinda class. Our raw initial damage never quite matches a wizard or warlock, but over time we kick but in long haul damage.We're an ace soloing class, but in a group we can change it up and be an outstanding support player.Our 3 pet lines are very flexible. The pet tank under defensive stance can easily tank for a good group and hold agro. The warlock and scout pets do great damage in situations where that's called for.I've spot healed and saved my group MANY times. We're masters or CC when the group cooperates. Did I mention we can crank out ubber heavy dps over a long period of time?

10-25-2005, 09:56 PM	#3
hammong Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 128	At 46, I find that there's still not much strategy involved in killing solo conned mobs. If you take on green heroics or very high solo cons, then you may find that healing, fearing, debuffing, dotting becomes more exciting, and that you and your pet both end up with low health and a satisfying grin when the mobs are dead. For what it's worth, EQ2 isn't real heavy on strategy as EQ1 was. You can pretty much pull anything that cons resonable to your level and expect to win, and "adds" requiring crowd control are often predicable. __________________ Demento, 90/300 Illusionist Jaggnar, 90/300 SK Brightwind, 90/255 Fury Nihilist Dynasty - Permafrost

10-26-2005, 01:46 AM	#4
Za General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,084	Yeah, but if all you ever do is solo the least difficult thing you can, then you never need any stragy.Even at 46, you can solo ^ mobs or multi mob heroic groups. Thats where the fun comes in.

10-26-2005, 10:14 PM	#7
Za General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,084	I look at it this way...With my Inq, I feel pretty boxed in. There are situations where I feel completely helpless or useful. Situations were I look at mu spell bars and just shake amy head and don't see any viable options.With necro, even in the funkiest situations I see creative solutions. If a fight goes bad for some classes, all you think about is how can I die in such a way to get my shard easier. With my necro, even though we get FD, I'm usually thinking I can win this, until the very end. And in many cases, I've pulled the rabbit out at the last minute. THAT is whats cool about the necro class.

10-26-2005, 11:41 PM	#9
Outwa Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7	I agree. Getting that last second fear or root to stick on a mob who would normally kick anyone elses butt, backing up and being able to recast your pet / kill the mob for the win is the ultimate rush. When I play my Shaman I have to be pretty picky about what types of group mobs I'll take on. But with my Necro there's ALOT more options...you start looking at groups of mobs differently...instead of just dismissing the group of heroic ^ types you'd like to solo...you start thinking 'Ok, how can I pull this off' and your mind starts running through options...root, fear, pet, stun, dots...and if all fails you can always FD. I love being a NECRO! Murasa Necromancer of 26 Evils Avenging Light Neriak server

10-28-2005, 08:53 AM	#11
Shonin General Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 17	I wanted to touch on the part of being able to pull things out of our butts. Recently I was grouping with 2 of my guild mates in Everfrost just doing writs, when we came across Brood Mother. I was 50 at the time and tanking for the 46 ranger and 47 Defiler. We decided to take her on. She is a 44 named ^^^ heroic with about 6 to 8 triple down babies with her, for those who may not know. Things are going pretty good when my pet loses aggro and she turns on me. I die so fast I don't get my FD off and they evac. Some are saying what kind of story is this, you died why are you sharing your failure. The thing is they both said they weren't really paying attention to me, because they thought I had something up my sleeve like usual. We all laughed about it then killed the Brood Mother. Necros are full of suprises and very fun. They shock the hell out of some people and even scare them. I remember casting my hounds for the first time and a person said they jumped out of their chair with flash backs of Resident Evil. Go have fun.