Problems with Clinging Darkness...

Frostborne · 10-13-2005, 07:36 PM

I'm not sure if this is the monster breaking the debuff or what, but it's definetly not always lasting the 45 seconds it should be. I've cast it repeatly and sometimes it ends instantly, sometimes lasts 10 seconds, sometimes the full duration. What's the deal? Anyone else have this problem with the spell or similar spells?

Amra-c0d · 10-13-2005, 07:37 PM

It has a chance to break everytime you do damage.

Frostborne · 10-13-2005, 07:40 PM

Ah ok, so you just have to watch the timer to recast it - which is what I've been doing.

Tallika_Runwithbears · 10-13-2005, 10:48 PM

i just use it to get an extra proc from my lich spell. its worthless otherwise

Sosum · 10-13-2005, 10:51 PM

do the "Court of Truth: Brush with celebrity" quest then tell me its worthless.

Tallika_Runwithbears · 10-13-2005, 10:57 PM

how do you keep it from breaking almost as soon as you cast it?

Za · 10-14-2005, 12:34 AM

Tallika_Runwithbears wrote:i just use it to get an extra proc from my lich spell. its worthless otherwise

Nah its not wortheless, its just not intended to be used to kite.

Za · 10-14-2005, 12:36 AM

Tallika_Runwithbears wrote:how do you keep it from breaking almost as soon as you cast it?

Don't attack the mob you cast it on.

Cronostri · 10-14-2005, 03:06 AM

I just don't know what is the problem SOE has with kiting, even if you can manage to kill a heroic kiting it would take alot of time not to mention power, I much rather kill 3 solo mobs in the time it takes to kill 1 heroic. Killing 3 solo nets you more exp , more money and loot , the only practical use I would see in this is so I could do the quests otherwise I have to beg in OOC to finish nothing else.

Message Edited by Cronostrike on 10-13-2005 04:07 PM

Za · 10-14-2005, 04:11 AM

Kiting is just plain cheesey, and certain classes make it even cheeseier.It also makes the AI look even stupider. I always hated seeing EQ mobs mindlessly chasing a wolf around in a circle dying. Looks like a bad OJ Simpson car chase.

Frostborne · 10-14-2005, 06:45 PM

Well Kiting makes perfect sense to me..... If someone cast a spell on you (the mob) that made you lose movement speed to a near crawl, what would you do? Run? - Ok if your going to run then fine, but you're still moving slow and a target from the rear. Fight? - If you're going to fight, your going to end up chasing someone faster than you. As someone pointed out, usually kiting is more mana intensive, and since most spells don't last very long anyways, I don't see it as any big deal. We can get 2-3 casters in a group and utterly smoke triple con group mobs by simply chain casting immobilize (or one of the higher level equivalents), dot and nuke them while they are rooted in place, taking out a good 75% of the danger in the encounter. Do they break? Sure, but that's when you pull out your handy Lifetap spells while the others re-root the mob. To me it's just tactics, and there is no sense in punishing players for using it. Many times we do it just to make it easier on the tank in the group. And when you think of it, hunters of Mammoths used to do the same thing, by shooting them in the legs till they started bleeding to death, slowing them down, even cutting tendons so the animals couldn't trample them. I'm sure no one was going "that's cheating", you have to sit there and be trampled! I think they've put enough options into the game to make kiting perfectly feasible, though I don't think it's as doable when solo, well at least on tough mobs.

Za · 10-14-2005, 10:57 PM

Frostborne wrote:Well Kiting makes perfect sense to me..... If someone cast a spell on you (the mob) that made you lose movement speed to a near crawl, what would you do? Run? - Ok if your going to run then fine, but you're still moving slow and a target from the rear. Fight? - If you're going to fight, your going to end up chasing someone faster than you. As someone pointed out, usually kiting is more mana intensive, and since most spells don't last very long anyways, I don't see it as any big deal. We can get 2-3 casters in a group and utterly smoke triple con group mobs by simply chain casting immobilize (or one of the higher level equivalents), dot and nuke them while they are rooted in place, taking out a good 75% of the danger in the encounter. Do they break? Sure, but that's when you pull out your handy Lifetap spells while the others re-root the mob. To me it's just tactics, and there is no sense in punishing players for using it. Many times we do it just to make it easier on the tank in the group. And when you think of it, hunters of Mammoths used to do the same thing, by shooting them in the legs till they started bleeding to death, slowing them down, even cutting tendons so the animals couldn't trample them. I'm sure no one was going "that's cheating", you have to sit there and be trampled! I think they've put enough options into the game to make kiting perfectly feasible, though I don't think it's as doable when solo, well at least on tough mobs.

Find cover? Get your own ranged weapon and fire back?It trivializes the game as it stands... sure they could fix it so that kiting was truely a challenging aspect of the game, but then non-kiting classes would suffer...Hey what if a mob snared your char... then stayed just out of melee range and just nuked you to death... fun huh? Did you like those pre-fix stifle mobs that just kept you stifled and then killed you without you having any real recourse if you didn't get lucky enough on your resists? Oh sooooo much fun that was...Exactly!

Frostborne · 10-14-2005, 11:05 PM

Zald wrote:
Frostborne wrote:Well Kiting makes perfect sense to me..... If someone cast a spell on you (the mob) that made you lose movement speed to a near crawl, what would you do? Run? - Ok if your going to run then fine, but you're still moving slow and a target from the rear. Fight? - If you're going to fight, your going to end up chasing someone faster than you. As someone pointed out, usually kiting is more mana intensive, and since most spells don't last very long anyways, I don't see it as any big deal. We can get 2-3 casters in a group and utterly smoke triple con group mobs by simply chain casting immobilize (or one of the higher level equivalents), dot and nuke them while they are rooted in place, taking out a good 75% of the danger in the encounter. Do they break? Sure, but that's when you pull out your handy Lifetap spells while the others re-root the mob. To me it's just tactics, and there is no sense in punishing players for using it. Many times we do it just to make it easier on the tank in the group. And when you think of it, hunters of Mammoths used to do the same thing, by shooting them in the legs till they started bleeding to death, slowing them down, even cutting tendons so the animals couldn't trample them. I'm sure no one was going "that's cheating", you have to sit there and be trampled! I think they've put enough options into the game to make kiting perfectly feasible, though I don't think it's as doable when solo, well at least on tough mobs.
Find cover? Get your own ranged weapon and fire back?It trivializes the game as it stands... sure they could fix it so that kiting was truely a challenging aspect of the game, but then non-kiting classes would suffer...Hey what if a mob snared your char... then stayed just out of melee range and just nuked you to death... fun huh? Did you like those pre-fix stifle mobs that just kept you stifled and then killed you without you having any real recourse if you didn't get lucky enough on your resists? Oh sooooo much fun that was...Exactly!

They already do that, run into any pack of group mobs with casters and watch how far you get. I've been stunned, snared, and and DOT'd so bad I last about 3 seconds. How is it good enough for the mobs in the game and not the players? And as far as I know all the spells they cast before are still castable and working now.

Za · 10-14-2005, 11:12 PM

Thats a group of casting mobs.... Their mechanics work almost the same as player mechanics. Albeit they do sometimes nuker harder... But what was this... you're comparing 1 player casting snare on 1 or more mobs and dragging them around while they slowly die.... to a player running into a group of mobs and being killed the straight up way? Huh?

Sosum · 10-14-2005, 11:13 PM

stench of the grave, deathly coil and other small dots...

Tallika_Runwithbears wrote:
how do you keep it from breaking almost as soon as you cast it?

Frostborne · 10-14-2005, 11:37 PM

Zald wrote:Thats a group of casting mobs.... Their mechanics work almost the same as player mechanics. Albeit they do sometimes nuker harder... But what was this... you're comparing 1 player casting snare on 1 or more mobs and dragging them around while they slowly die.... to a player running into a group of mobs and being killed the straight up way? Huh?

No, I'm comparing a group of players doing the exact same thing a group of mobs does. I certainly can't snare a group of 5-6 mobs, or even 3-4 for that matter before the timers run out. That's IF you can find a spot big enough to do it without running into any additional agro.

Za · 10-14-2005, 11:44 PM

Oh well we're not at all talking about the same thing...What you're thinking of is just how the game is supposed to be played...In EQ1, you'd see certain casters running around with 4 or 5 otherwise impossible to solo mobs chasing him... and he'd ultimately kill them all. Thats what I'm talking about is silly.

Nainitsuj · 10-17-2005, 05:59 AM

Zald wrote:

Hey what if a mob snared your char... then stayed just out of melee range and just nuked you to death... fun huh? Did you like those pre-fix stifle mobs that just kept you stifled and then killed you without you having any real recourse if you didn't get lucky enough on your resists? Oh sooooo much fun that was...

Solo areana anyone?

10-13-2005, 07:36 PM	#1
Frostborne Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 153	I'm not sure if this is the monster breaking the debuff or what, but it's definetly not always lasting the 45 seconds it should be. I've cast it repeatly and sometimes it ends instantly, sometimes lasts 10 seconds, sometimes the full duration. What's the deal? Anyone else have this problem with the spell or similar spells? __________________ __________________________________________________ Godstar Elvenblade, Leader of the Grove Perveyor of Fine Threads Order of the White Oak Butcherblock

10-13-2005, 07:37 PM	#2
Amra-c0d Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 14	It has a chance to break everytime you do damage. __________________ Argaul 51 Necromancer of Lucan D'Lere

10-13-2005, 07:40 PM	#3
Frostborne Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 153	Ah ok, so you just have to watch the timer to recast it - which is what I've been doing. __________________ __________________________________________________ Godstar Elvenblade, Leader of the Grove Perveyor of Fine Threads Order of the White Oak Butcherblock

10-13-2005, 10:48 PM	#4
Tallika_Runwithbears Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Windy City Posts: 328	i just use it to get an extra proc from my lich spell. its worthless otherwise __________________

10-13-2005, 10:51 PM	#5
Sosum General Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 361	do the "Court of Truth: Brush with celebrity" quest then tell me its worthless. __________________

10-13-2005, 10:57 PM	#6
Tallika_Runwithbears Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Windy City Posts: 328	how do you keep it from breaking almost as soon as you cast it? __________________

10-14-2005, 12:34 AM	#7
Za General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,084	Tallika_Runwithbears wrote:i just use it to get an extra proc from my lich spell. its worthless otherwise Nah its not wortheless, its just not intended to be used to kite.

10-14-2005, 12:36 AM	#8
Za General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,084	Tallika_Runwithbears wrote:how do you keep it from breaking almost as soon as you cast it? Don't attack the mob you cast it on.

10-14-2005, 03:06 AM	#9
Cronostri Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 12	I just don't know what is the problem SOE has with kiting, even if you can manage to kill a heroic kiting it would take alot of time not to mention power, I much rather kill 3 solo mobs in the time it takes to kill 1 heroic. Killing 3 solo nets you more exp , more money and loot , the only practical use I would see in this is so I could do the quests otherwise I have to beg in OOC to finish nothing else. Message Edited by Cronostrike on 10-13-2005 04:07 PM

10-14-2005, 04:11 AM	#10
Za General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,084	Kiting is just plain cheesey, and certain classes make it even cheeseier.It also makes the AI look even stupider. I always hated seeing EQ mobs mindlessly chasing a wolf around in a circle dying. Looks like a bad OJ Simpson car chase.

10-14-2005, 06:45 PM	#11
Frostborne Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 153	Well Kiting makes perfect sense to me..... If someone cast a spell on you (the mob) that made you lose movement speed to a near crawl, what would you do? Run? - Ok if your going to run then fine, but you're still moving slow and a target from the rear. Fight? - If you're going to fight, your going to end up chasing someone faster than you. As someone pointed out, usually kiting is more mana intensive, and since most spells don't last very long anyways, I don't see it as any big deal. We can get 2-3 casters in a group and utterly smoke triple con group mobs by simply chain casting immobilize (or one of the higher level equivalents), dot and nuke them while they are rooted in place, taking out a good 75% of the danger in the encounter. Do they break? Sure, but that's when you pull out your handy Lifetap spells while the others re-root the mob. To me it's just tactics, and there is no sense in punishing players for using it. Many times we do it just to make it easier on the tank in the group. And when you think of it, hunters of Mammoths used to do the same thing, by shooting them in the legs till they started bleeding to death, slowing them down, even cutting tendons so the animals couldn't trample them. I'm sure no one was going "that's cheating", you have to sit there and be trampled! I think they've put enough options into the game to make kiting perfectly feasible, though I don't think it's as doable when solo, well at least on tough mobs. __________________ __________________________________________________ Godstar Elvenblade, Leader of the Grove Perveyor of Fine Threads Order of the White Oak Butcherblock

10-14-2005, 10:57 PM	#12
Za General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,084	Frostborne wrote:Well Kiting makes perfect sense to me..... If someone cast a spell on you (the mob) that made you lose movement speed to a near crawl, what would you do? Run? - Ok if your going to run then fine, but you're still moving slow and a target from the rear. Fight? - If you're going to fight, your going to end up chasing someone faster than you. As someone pointed out, usually kiting is more mana intensive, and since most spells don't last very long anyways, I don't see it as any big deal. We can get 2-3 casters in a group and utterly smoke triple con group mobs by simply chain casting immobilize (or one of the higher level equivalents), dot and nuke them while they are rooted in place, taking out a good 75% of the danger in the encounter. Do they break? Sure, but that's when you pull out your handy Lifetap spells while the others re-root the mob. To me it's just tactics, and there is no sense in punishing players for using it. Many times we do it just to make it easier on the tank in the group. And when you think of it, hunters of Mammoths used to do the same thing, by shooting them in the legs till they started bleeding to death, slowing them down, even cutting tendons so the animals couldn't trample them. I'm sure no one was going "that's cheating", you have to sit there and be trampled! I think they've put enough options into the game to make kiting perfectly feasible, though I don't think it's as doable when solo, well at least on tough mobs. Find cover? Get your own ranged weapon and fire back?It trivializes the game as it stands... sure they could fix it so that kiting was truely a challenging aspect of the game, but then non-kiting classes would suffer...Hey what if a mob snared your char... then stayed just out of melee range and just nuked you to death... fun huh? Did you like those pre-fix stifle mobs that just kept you stifled and then killed you without you having any real recourse if you didn't get lucky enough on your resists? Oh sooooo much fun that was...Exactly!

10-14-2005, 11:05 PM	#13
Frostborne Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 153	Zald wrote: Frostborne wrote:Well Kiting makes perfect sense to me..... If someone cast a spell on you (the mob) that made you lose movement speed to a near crawl, what would you do? Run? - Ok if your going to run then fine, but you're still moving slow and a target from the rear. Fight? - If you're going to fight, your going to end up chasing someone faster than you. As someone pointed out, usually kiting is more mana intensive, and since most spells don't last very long anyways, I don't see it as any big deal. We can get 2-3 casters in a group and utterly smoke triple con group mobs by simply chain casting immobilize (or one of the higher level equivalents), dot and nuke them while they are rooted in place, taking out a good 75% of the danger in the encounter. Do they break? Sure, but that's when you pull out your handy Lifetap spells while the others re-root the mob. To me it's just tactics, and there is no sense in punishing players for using it. Many times we do it just to make it easier on the tank in the group. And when you think of it, hunters of Mammoths used to do the same thing, by shooting them in the legs till they started bleeding to death, slowing them down, even cutting tendons so the animals couldn't trample them. I'm sure no one was going "that's cheating", you have to sit there and be trampled! I think they've put enough options into the game to make kiting perfectly feasible, though I don't think it's as doable when solo, well at least on tough mobs. Find cover? Get your own ranged weapon and fire back?It trivializes the game as it stands... sure they could fix it so that kiting was truely a challenging aspect of the game, but then non-kiting classes would suffer...Hey what if a mob snared your char... then stayed just out of melee range and just nuked you to death... fun huh? Did you like those pre-fix stifle mobs that just kept you stifled and then killed you without you having any real recourse if you didn't get lucky enough on your resists? Oh sooooo much fun that was...Exactly! They already do that, run into any pack of group mobs with casters and watch how far you get. I've been stunned, snared, and and DOT'd so bad I last about 3 seconds. How is it good enough for the mobs in the game and not the players? And as far as I know all the spells they cast before are still castable and working now. __________________ __________________________________________________ Godstar Elvenblade, Leader of the Grove Perveyor of Fine Threads Order of the White Oak Butcherblock

10-14-2005, 11:12 PM	#14
Za General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,084	Thats a group of casting mobs.... Their mechanics work almost the same as player mechanics. Albeit they do sometimes nuker harder... But what was this... you're comparing 1 player casting snare on 1 or more mobs and dragging them around while they slowly die.... to a player running into a group of mobs and being killed the straight up way? Huh?

10-14-2005, 11:13 PM	#15
Sosum General Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 361	stench of the grave, deathly coil and other small dots... Tallika_Runwithbears wrote: how do you keep it from breaking almost as soon as you cast it? __________________

10-14-2005, 11:37 PM	#16
Frostborne Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 153	Zald wrote:Thats a group of casting mobs.... Their mechanics work almost the same as player mechanics. Albeit they do sometimes nuker harder... But what was this... you're comparing 1 player casting snare on 1 or more mobs and dragging them around while they slowly die.... to a player running into a group of mobs and being killed the straight up way? Huh? No, I'm comparing a group of players doing the exact same thing a group of mobs does. I certainly can't snare a group of 5-6 mobs, or even 3-4 for that matter before the timers run out. That's IF you can find a spot big enough to do it without running into any additional agro. __________________ __________________________________________________ Godstar Elvenblade, Leader of the Grove Perveyor of Fine Threads Order of the White Oak Butcherblock

10-14-2005, 11:44 PM	#17
Za General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,084	Oh well we're not at all talking about the same thing...What you're thinking of is just how the game is supposed to be played...In EQ1, you'd see certain casters running around with 4 or 5 otherwise impossible to solo mobs chasing him... and he'd ultimately kill them all. Thats what I'm talking about is silly.

10-17-2005, 05:59 AM	#18
Nainitsuj Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Emerald Server Posts: 525	Zald wrote: Hey what if a mob snared your char... then stayed just out of melee range and just nuked you to death... fun huh? Did you like those pre-fix stifle mobs that just kept you stifled and then killed you without you having any real recourse if you didn't get lucky enough on your resists? Oh sooooo much fun that was... Solo areana anyone?