Charm post expansion

Shinkc · 11-18-2006, 10:11 PM

Anyone else noticing that charm resist rate is really high post expansion? I'm using M1 Beguile and haven't had a single charm go the distance after playing four about 3.5 hours. This is charming MOBs 1-3 levels above me, single up arrow ghouls in Sinking Sands. On the good side, it doesn't appear that their damage was nerfed, which is what I was afraid of.

Tanatus · 11-19-2006, 12:11 AM

Domination M1 ... I did not notice any problem with charm stability per say but ... Pet heal pool under charm been harmed badly - nowdays poor copse flames die in 1 hit from Harragan Humator (was never a case before)

On a side I DID notice improvement in charm stablity with Total Domination AA ... then charm used against lvl 72+ mobs

Momolicio · 11-19-2006, 01:58 AM

Just after servers came up on EoF launch day someone put a M1 Beguile for 1p..../yoinkI never really used charm except as emergency CC before then. What I have noticed is pet simply dissapears, this encounter no longer gives experience message. I figured I let it time out but it was happening often and within minutes of a new charm. I thought it had to do with elevational changes except it happend 2x when engaged in stationary combat./shrugAnother thing I have noticed is broken pets will not target on 'target nearest npc' keypress.

Shinkc · 11-19-2006, 05:56 AM

OK, perhaps I was only having one of those days then. There was an Inquisitor in the group and I know it's been discussed how that seems to have a negative effect, even though I didn't see any buffs that would have caused increased resists. I guess 3.5 hours is not a large enough sample to make broad conclusions.

PluvianMi · 11-19-2006, 10:30 AM

I beleive the M1 charm "resistability" was reduced from 30% to 21% with the release of EoF so that could explain additional resists that some Coercers are seeing.

TiaraJew · 11-19-2006, 03:07 PM

I can't be sure as I'm not on atm, but I believe my lvl *10* charm, at least, was listed as "32% harder" at adept 3. I wouldn't think it'd get easier to resist at higher levels...

Message Edited by TiaraJewel on 11-19-2006 02:14 AM

laddich · 11-19-2006, 09:51 PM

To OP:

They changed the whole Charm spell line. The only difference between the levels used to be duration, now they have scaled it. I.E. your M1 Dominate (lvl 47) has a higher resistability for mob > lvl 67. They never specificly mentioned it in any of the update notes, but it was a major blow to the coercer community. Charming is our main spell line, and is class defining. I think they made a major error in not communicating the changes properly. Why change it after almost 2 years?

I see that they try and make Adept III's of the next tier better than the Master I of the last. If that were true, my Adept III charmed Corpse Flame (69) would do more damage. INSTEAD: my Dominate M1 gets resisted more, but the DAMAGE OUTPUT of the mob is 20-30% higher compared to the Adept III charmed mob. Inconsistent thus, as the A3 would have to do more damage than the M1 lower tier.

There is something smelling very fishy about this all. And it ain't my Charming skills.

Vadra/ 70 Coercer of Divine Legend=GUK

PluvianMi · 11-20-2006, 10:48 AM

The change to resistability vs. mob level changed in an earlier update - not sure if it was the one before EoF or perhaps the one even before that.

Earl_Of_Bronze · 11-20-2006, 07:37 PM

Master 1 Domination here... I am noticing a significant difference pre-EoF and post-EoF; my charms break nearly instantaneous. (ie. < 2 minutes after cast) Try going into loping plains and charming mobs by the freethinkers entrance... blue triple ups... had the first two break on me yesterday in less then 1 minute. (My subjugation is extremely high as I have subjugation equipment and 8 points into the AA skill Dreamweaver's Trance)I cannot help but feel we are the proverbial battery now. /shrug

Message Edited by Earl_Of_Bronze on 11-20-2006 06:38 AM

Venzule · 11-20-2006, 07:38 PM

Shinkceb wrote:
Anyone else noticing that charm resist rate is really high post expansion? I'm using M1 Beguile and haven't had a single charm go the distance after playing four about 3.5 hours. This is charming MOBs 1-3 levels above me, single up arrow ghouls in Sinking Sands. On the good side, it doesn't appear that their damage was nerfed, which is what I was afraid of.

Question.....

I see you must be level 45? All the Ghouls in SS are level 48. So yes, a 1 ^ mob 3 levels higher than you will resist ALOT.

Also I notice that the Ghouls have high resists. I stopped using them and changed to the level 46 Defiled Ghoul. Its still and 1 ^ and nukes for a little bit less but the charm almost always runs its full course.

Shinkc · 11-20-2006, 09:52 PM

I was level 47 at the time charming ghouls and sinister ghouls. I started off with sinister (level 50) and switched to regular ghouls because I thought maybe the level difference was getting me. I played more yesterday at level 48 and couldn't hold charm on level 44 resonating echoes in Everfrost either.It's more annoying than anything - I think we're all used to our charms killing us by now.

Dekiri · 11-20-2006, 10:34 PM

Earl_Of_Bronze wrote:
Master 1 Domination here... I am noticing a significant difference pre-EoF and post-EoF; my charms break nearly instantaneous. (ie. < 2 minutes after cast) Try going into loping plains and charming mobs by the freethinkers entrance... blue triple ups... had the first two break on me yesterday in less then 1 minute. (My subjugation is extremely high as I have subjugation equipment and 8 points into the AA skill Dreamweaver's Trance)I cannot help but feel we are the proverbial battery now. /shrug
Message Edited by Earl_Of_Bronze on 11-20-2006 06:38 AM

Don't beleive you=) There are a few that break fast due to their high natural resistances but thats about it. Do you have total domination AA ?? It really does the trick i am seeing even improvements compared to pre EoF.

Venzule · 11-21-2006, 02:11 AM

Dekiri wrote:

Earl_Of_Bronze wrote:
Master 1 Domination here... I am noticing a significant difference pre-EoF and post-EoF; my charms break nearly instantaneous. (ie. < 2 minutes after cast)

Try going into loping plains and charming mobs by the freethinkers entrance... blue triple ups... had the first two break on me yesterday in less then 1 minute. (My subjugation is extremely high as I have subjugation equipment and 8 points into the AA skill Dreamweaver's Trance)

I cannot help but feel we are the proverbial battery now. /shrug

Message Edited by Earl_Of_Bronze on 11-20-2006 06:38 AM

Don't beleive you=) There are a few that break fast due to their high natural resistances but thats about it. Do you have total domination AA ?? It really does the trick i am seeing even improvements compared to pre EoF.

That too... I have 5 points in that line.

I cant seem to find a Mez resistance line though. To bad, I would like to improve that due to the nerf of it.

VW_Factor · 11-21-2006, 10:45 AM

Ive noticed (My coecer is kinda little) that my charm is adept3 quality and since the revamp, hasnt stayed for the duration. Not once, even on mobs that are 4 to 5 levels below my level. Kinda makes it useless to charm anything anymore.

Jibber Mong · 11-21-2006, 03:18 PM

I've not really noticed a difference tbh.

Done a bit of charming in the EoF instances and it seems pretty stable even on the yellow con's, the Bonemire farming seems no different at all. Charm reliability in general reminds me alot of eq1. Good periods where it lasts for the full duration, then the crazy hour when it break shortly after landing. 9 times out of 10 if it sticks for over 5 mins it pretty much lasts full duration.

I have not put any AA's into charm resists and tbh dont intend to if things stay as they are. The funniest thing of all is i dont have m1 dominate or domination yet and am currently using M1 beguile :smileytongue:

Message Edited by Jibber Mong on 11-21-2006 02:18 AM

Lleinen · 11-21-2006, 03:37 PM

I tested charm today (sorry only read OP post) and I have seen a drastic change to how often my pet breaks.

The new resists are [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], back to pet breaking within 5-10minutes again on a 30min timer.

Dekiri · 11-21-2006, 06:06 PM

Venzule wrote:

Dekiri wrote:

Earl_Of_Bronze wrote:
Master 1 Domination here... I am noticing a significant difference pre-EoF and post-EoF; my charms break nearly instantaneous. (ie. < 2 minutes after cast) Try going into loping plains and charming mobs by the freethinkers entrance... blue triple ups... had the first two break on me yesterday in less then 1 minute. (My subjugation is extremely high as I have subjugation equipment and 8 points into the AA skill Dreamweaver's Trance)I cannot help but feel we are the proverbial battery now. /shrug

Message Edited by Earl_Of_Bronze on 11-20-2006 06:38 AM

Don't beleive you=) There are a few that break fast due to their high natural resistances but thats about it. Do you have total domination AA ?? It really does the trick i am seeing even improvements compared to pre EoF.

That too... I have 5 points in that line.

I cant seem to find a Mez resistance line though. To bad, I would like to improve that due to the nerf of it.

You can just go + subjugation for mezzes i noticed real differences with that.

Earl_Of_Bronze · 11-22-2006, 12:40 AM

Should give it a try if you ever respec out of the Charm AA.Since your response, I added 5 points into the Charm AA mentioned and things are MUCH better. The question is why should we have to waste 5 points to get it back (and somewhat above) where we were pre-EoF? The problem now is putting 5 points into the Charm AA prevents me from getting 2 different final tier AA's in EOF line now. (Was going to go with Power Shield and Coercive Healing) At least, that's the way it shows with 20 points for the final tiers. (Assumption is 5 points for each final tier)It appears being a raiding Coercer and solo'er don't mix well when it comes to the EoF AA lines.

Message Edited by Earl_Of_Bronze on 11-23-2006 06:26 AM

Trid · 11-22-2006, 01:32 AM

I have master 1 charm and have yet to have one resist besides charming orange mobs

Kepec 69 halfling Coercer

Shinkc · 11-22-2006, 02:10 AM

Quote:

The question is why should we have to waste 5 points to get it back (and somewhat above) where we were pre-EoF?

I don't have EoF, so I don't even have the option.

ca · 11-22-2006, 08:40 PM

I did see a huge difference in the charm line at first, then I checked my skills and saw my sub was at 236/254 so I got the skill maxed out and saw that I was holding charm almost the entire duration every time (on low mental resist mobs) so I added two peices of armour to buff up sub and ended up with 262/254, as long as I didn't go after high mental resist pets (odd that enchanter pets are not high resist) I rarely saw a break, although when a break did happen it was early and it would happen a lot from that point on.

Overall on all of my toons I have noticed that skills are making a HUGE difference, my necro has all skills capped and buffed above cap, before I was getting a lot of resists on certain mobs (last guy in vaults especially) now I rarely ever see a resist but on my fury who has low skills in everything but ministration I see almost non-stop resists, this is odd since my necro only has a few masters but my fury is almost all masters, so it seems that level of the spell is now a small part of the resistability while skill is king, kind of annoying at first but now I am really enjoying the loot hunt for skill gear instead of just trying to cap int all the time.

11-19-2006, 01:58 AM	#3
Momolicio General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 166	Just after servers came up on EoF launch day someone put a M1 Beguile for 1p..../yoinkI never really used charm except as emergency CC before then. What I have noticed is pet simply dissapears, this encounter no longer gives experience message. I figured I let it time out but it was happening often and within minutes of a new charm. I thought it had to do with elevational changes except it happend 2x when engaged in stationary combat./shrugAnother thing I have noticed is broken pets will not target on 'target nearest npc' keypress. __________________ Tombstone high with graveyard eyes, 2 foot 2 and I dun mind dieing.

11-20-2006, 07:37 PM	#9
Earl_Of_Bronze Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 51	Master 1 Domination here... I am noticing a significant difference pre-EoF and post-EoF; my charms break nearly instantaneous. (ie. < 2 minutes after cast) Try going into loping plains and charming mobs by the freethinkers entrance... blue triple ups... had the first two break on me yesterday in less then 1 minute. (My subjugation is extremely high as I have subjugation equipment and 8 points into the AA skill Dreamweaver's Trance)I cannot help but feel we are the proverbial battery now. /shrug Message Edited by Earl_Of_Bronze on 11-20-2006 06:38 AM __________________ Aero - 70 Swashy / 70 Provisioner Duresss - 70 Coercer Butcherblock

11-20-2006, 07:38 PM	#10
Venzule Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 138	Shinkceb wrote: Anyone else noticing that charm resist rate is really high post expansion? I'm using M1 Beguile and haven't had a single charm go the distance after playing four about 3.5 hours. This is charming MOBs 1-3 levels above me, single up arrow ghouls in Sinking Sands. On the good side, it doesn't appear that their damage was nerfed, which is what I was afraid of. Question..... I see you must be level 45? All the Ghouls in SS are level 48. So yes, a 1 ^ mob 3 levels higher than you will resist ALOT. Also I notice that the Ghouls have high resists. I stopped using them and changed to the level 46 Defiled Ghoul. Its still and 1 ^ and nukes for a little bit less but the charm almost always runs its full course. __________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It wouldnt be Christmas without a Nerf in our stocking.

11-20-2006, 10:34 PM	#12
Dekiri Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 37	Earl_Of_Bronze wrote: Master 1 Domination here... I am noticing a significant difference pre-EoF and post-EoF; my charms break nearly instantaneous. (ie. < 2 minutes after cast) Try going into loping plains and charming mobs by the freethinkers entrance... blue triple ups... had the first two break on me yesterday in less then 1 minute. (My subjugation is extremely high as I have subjugation equipment and 8 points into the AA skill Dreamweaver's Trance)I cannot help but feel we are the proverbial battery now. /shrug Message Edited by Earl_Of_Bronze on 11-20-2006 06:38 AM Don't beleive you=) There are a few that break fast due to their high natural resistances but thats about it. Do you have total domination AA ?? It really does the trick i am seeing even improvements compared to pre EoF.

11-21-2006, 02:11 AM	#13
Venzule Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 138	Dekiri wrote: Earl_Of_Bronze wrote: Master 1 Domination here... I am noticing a significant difference pre-EoF and post-EoF; my charms break nearly instantaneous. (ie. < 2 minutes after cast) Try going into loping plains and charming mobs by the freethinkers entrance... blue triple ups... had the first two break on me yesterday in less then 1 minute. (My subjugation is extremely high as I have subjugation equipment and 8 points into the AA skill Dreamweaver's Trance) I cannot help but feel we are the proverbial battery now. /shrug Message Edited by Earl_Of_Bronze on 11-20-2006 06:38 AM Don't beleive you=) There are a few that break fast due to their high natural resistances but thats about it. Do you have total domination AA ?? It really does the trick i am seeing even improvements compared to pre EoF. That too... I have 5 points in that line. I cant seem to find a Mez resistance line though. To bad, I would like to improve that due to the nerf of it. __________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It wouldnt be Christmas without a Nerf in our stocking.

11-18-2006, 10:11 PM	#1
Shinkc General Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 24	Anyone else noticing that charm resist rate is really high post expansion? I'm using M1 Beguile and haven't had a single charm go the distance after playing four about 3.5 hours. This is charming MOBs 1-3 levels above me, single up arrow ghouls in Sinking Sands. On the good side, it doesn't appear that their damage was nerfed, which is what I was afraid of.

11-19-2006, 12:11 AM	#2
Tanatus Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,003	Domination M1 ... I did not notice any problem with charm stability per say but ... Pet heal pool under charm been harmed badly - nowdays poor copse flames die in 1 hit from Harragan Humator (was never a case before) On a side I DID notice improvement in charm stablity with Total Domination AA ... then charm used against lvl 72+ mobs

11-19-2006, 05:56 AM	#4
Shinkc General Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 24	OK, perhaps I was only having one of those days then. There was an Inquisitor in the group and I know it's been discussed how that seems to have a negative effect, even though I didn't see any buffs that would have caused increased resists. I guess 3.5 hours is not a large enough sample to make broad conclusions.

11-19-2006, 10:30 AM	#5
PluvianMi Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 195	I beleive the M1 charm "resistability" was reduced from 30% to 21% with the release of EoF so that could explain additional resists that some Coercers are seeing.

11-19-2006, 03:07 PM	#6
TiaraJew Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 15	I can't be sure as I'm not on atm, but I believe my lvl 10 charm, at least, was listed as "32% harder" at adept 3. I wouldn't think it'd get easier to resist at higher levels... Message Edited by TiaraJewel on 11-19-2006 02:14 AM

11-19-2006, 09:51 PM	#7
laddich Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 71	To OP: They changed the whole Charm spell line. The only difference between the levels used to be duration, now they have scaled it. I.E. your M1 Dominate (lvl 47) has a higher resistability for mob > lvl 67. They never specificly mentioned it in any of the update notes, but it was a major blow to the coercer community. Charming is our main spell line, and is class defining. I think they made a major error in not communicating the changes properly. Why change it after almost 2 years? I see that they try and make Adept III's of the next tier better than the Master I of the last. If that were true, my Adept III charmed Corpse Flame (69) would do more damage. INSTEAD: my Dominate M1 gets resisted more, but the DAMAGE OUTPUT of the mob is 20-30% higher compared to the Adept III charmed mob. Inconsistent thus, as the A3 would have to do more damage than the M1 lower tier. There is something smelling very fishy about this all. And it ain't my Charming skills. Vadra/ 70 Coercer of Divine Legend=GUK

11-20-2006, 10:48 AM	#8
PluvianMi Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 195	The change to resistability vs. mob level changed in an earlier update - not sure if it was the one before EoF or perhaps the one even before that.

11-20-2006, 09:52 PM	#11
Shinkc General Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 24	I was level 47 at the time charming ghouls and sinister ghouls. I started off with sinister (level 50) and switched to regular ghouls because I thought maybe the level difference was getting me. I played more yesterday at level 48 and couldn't hold charm on level 44 resonating echoes in Everfrost either.It's more annoying than anything - I think we're all used to our charms killing us by now.

11-21-2006, 10:45 AM	#14
VW_Factor Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 61	Ive noticed (My coecer is kinda little) that my charm is adept3 quality and since the revamp, hasnt stayed for the duration. Not once, even on mobs that are 4 to 5 levels below my level. Kinda makes it useless to charm anything anymore.

11-21-2006, 03:18 PM	#15
Jibber Mong Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 27	I've not really noticed a difference tbh. Done a bit of charming in the EoF instances and it seems pretty stable even on the yellow con's, the Bonemire farming seems no different at all. Charm reliability in general reminds me alot of eq1. Good periods where it lasts for the full duration, then the crazy hour when it break shortly after landing. 9 times out of 10 if it sticks for over 5 mins it pretty much lasts full duration. I have not put any AA's into charm resists and tbh dont intend to if things stay as they are. The funniest thing of all is i dont have m1 dominate or domination yet and am currently using M1 beguile :smileytongue: Message Edited by Jibber Mong on 11-21-2006 02:18 AM __________________ Monja 70 Bruiser of Darathar - retired. Morque 70 Coercer of Darathar - retired. Nagafen > Darathar, at least there are people on that server.

11-21-2006, 03:37 PM	#16
Lleinen Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 368	I tested charm today (sorry only read OP post) and I have seen a drastic change to how often my pet breaks. The new resists are [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], back to pet breaking within 5-10minutes again on a 30min timer.

11-21-2006, 06:06 PM	#17
Dekiri Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 37	Venzule wrote: Dekiri wrote: Earl_Of_Bronze wrote: Master 1 Domination here... I am noticing a significant difference pre-EoF and post-EoF; my charms break nearly instantaneous. (ie. < 2 minutes after cast) Try going into loping plains and charming mobs by the freethinkers entrance... blue triple ups... had the first two break on me yesterday in less then 1 minute. (My subjugation is extremely high as I have subjugation equipment and 8 points into the AA skill Dreamweaver's Trance)I cannot help but feel we are the proverbial battery now. /shrug Message Edited by Earl_Of_Bronze on 11-20-2006 06:38 AM Don't beleive you=) There are a few that break fast due to their high natural resistances but thats about it. Do you have total domination AA ?? It really does the trick i am seeing even improvements compared to pre EoF. That too... I have 5 points in that line. I cant seem to find a Mez resistance line though. To bad, I would like to improve that due to the nerf of it. You can just go + subjugation for mezzes i noticed real differences with that.

11-22-2006, 12:40 AM	#18
Earl_Of_Bronze Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 51	Should give it a try if you ever respec out of the Charm AA.Since your response, I added 5 points into the Charm AA mentioned and things are MUCH better. The question is why should we have to waste 5 points to get it back (and somewhat above) where we were pre-EoF? The problem now is putting 5 points into the Charm AA prevents me from getting 2 different final tier AA's in EOF line now. (Was going to go with Power Shield and Coercive Healing) At least, that's the way it shows with 20 points for the final tiers. (Assumption is 5 points for each final tier)It appears being a raiding Coercer and solo'er don't mix well when it comes to the EoF AA lines. Message Edited by Earl_Of_Bronze on 11-23-2006 06:26 AM __________________ Aero - 70 Swashy / 70 Provisioner Duresss - 70 Coercer Butcherblock

11-22-2006, 01:32 AM	#19
Trid General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 23	I have master 1 charm and have yet to have one resist besides charming orange mobs Kepec 69 halfling Coercer

11-22-2006, 08:40 PM	#21
ca General Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: virginia Posts: 224	I did see a huge difference in the charm line at first, then I checked my skills and saw my sub was at 236/254 so I got the skill maxed out and saw that I was holding charm almost the entire duration every time (on low mental resist mobs) so I added two peices of armour to buff up sub and ended up with 262/254, as long as I didn't go after high mental resist pets (odd that enchanter pets are not high resist) I rarely saw a break, although when a break did happen it was early and it would happen a lot from that point on. Overall on all of my toons I have noticed that skills are making a HUGE difference, my necro has all skills capped and buffed above cap, before I was getting a lot of resists on certain mobs (last guy in vaults especially) now I rarely ever see a resist but on my fury who has low skills in everything but ministration I see almost non-stop resists, this is odd since my necro only has a few masters but my fury is almost all masters, so it seems that level of the spell is now a small part of the resistability while skill is king, kind of annoying at first but now I am really enjoying the loot hunt for skill gear instead of just trying to cap int all the time. __________________