Help, deciding a class/subclass.

NanthielNightwa · 01-13-2006, 05:51 PM

Hello, I'd like some help about deciding my class.I have a level 21 Wizard, but as I see it just isn't the class for me.I'd like to try one of the Enchanter subclasses. So I'd like to know what are the differences between Coercers and Illusionists?1.) How do each's effects look like?2.) Are they useful in groups?3.) Are they useful in Raids?4.) Soloing? (exp) [what do you do in soloing, do you stun/root+nuke the mob to death, or..? and can you AoE solo?]5.) What are their Fun Spells?6.) How many of them are there? (I like to be rare ^^)Thanks,Nanth

Message Edited by NanthielNightwave on 01-13-200604:52 AM

Oneira · 01-13-2006, 07:47 PM

I suggest you peruse this board, because there are many posts on the subject, some of which give excellent descriptions of the difference between Illusionists and Coercers.

TO what has already been said I'll just add a couple of things from the perspective of a low-level Illusionist who, like you, got sick of playing their Warlock:

Illusionists used to be awful at soloing, but now with the Personae Split I can solo much, much better. Coercers with their Charm/Coerce line are said to be even more effective.

Regarding 6), Illusionists used to be rare and Coercers very, very rare. That is changing. On Lucan D'Lere the Coercer population has increased greatly and now almost equals the illusionist. Still, Sorcerors and Summoners outnumber Enchanters as a whole a good 2 to 1 in each case. So, you will be part of a lesser-played class if you choose one of the two Enchanters, but don't expect to be the rarest of the rare anymore.

Zebsen · 01-13-2006, 07:53 PM

As for differences between illusionists and coercers, there are several. This topic comes up very frequently, so if you search, you will find a ton of more detailed responses than mine. The primary differences that I'm aware of are that illusionists stiffle mobs keeping them from casting as their primary ability, and stun a little bit. Coercers have better stun spells, completely keeping it from attacking, and stiffle a little bit. For soloing, illusionists create a duplicate. Coercers charm mobs. They each have some more unique spells at 50-60. Coercers (like most evil aligned chars) seem to be more rare and slightly more sought after on my server.

1.) How do each's effects look like?

I am not a huge fan of their effects. The stun effects are cool. I wish mezz was more visible that it is. Most damage and dots have minor effects. Color shower, prismatic strife, and casting your pet (personae) are exceptions; personally I find these effects to be fairly annoying since they limit your vision a bit in first person.

2.) Are they useful in groups?

Yes, very. Against heroics we really excel, as all of our abilities work. Stuns, stiffles, mana regen, dots, (minor) nukes, etc.

3.) Are they useful in Raids?

Not very. Stuns and stiffles don't work on true epics. When you take those away, our damage spells are weak relative to any other damage dealing class. Coercers have the same problem. We bring mana regen and some poor buff/debuffs to a raid. Our DPS varies based on the mobs and such. There are numerous threads on this, and I'm not an expert on raiding.

4.) Soloing? (exp) [what do you do in soloing, do you stun/root+nuke the mob to death, or..? and can you AoE solo?]

For illusioinist soloing, you create a pet, and send it in to attack. This is not as strong as a summoner/conjurer pet. I throw in some DOTs on the mob, but mainly I stun and stiffle it to keep the pet alive. I throw in the prismatic line on the pet (melee proc for high damage). Your nukes and DoTs aren't powerful and you'll probably take a little longer to make a kill than some of the other classes, but you're also safer when it comes to adds and such due to mezz. Our AoEs are nothing great till level 50 (color shower). You're more of a damage mitigator with stun, stiffle, and mana regen. I've been in several groups that have thrived without a healer due to these abilities.

5.) What are their Fun Spells?

Illusions. Poor ones at that. Ever wanted to be a bald high elf? Or a bald . If you want good illusions for roleplaying purposes, pick a class that starts with hair. Erudites and a few others are bald, so everything the morph into is bald as well. Gnoll illusions are the exceptions and are fairly cool looking.

6.) How many of them are there? (I like to be rare ^^)

On my server, illusionists tend to be the second or third most rare class as far as T6 is concerned. Coercers are definitely the rarest. Defilers are pretty rare on my server. When most people get to 60, they want to raid. Our raiding ability is low, leading people to play other characters until we're eventually "fixed". People migrate to useful classes and shelf less useful ones. On raids, we fall into the later category, hence the lack of population.

zit · 01-13-2006, 08:16 PM

NanthielNightwave wrote:
1.) How do each's effects look like?

illusionist spell effects...

our nukes look like throwing a snowball. about as impressive as the poor damage we nuke for.

most other spells are rainbowcolors in variation: rainbowcolor shower, rainbow color explosion, rainbowcolor swirl, etc.

some exception are our dispell (snake grafics) and our AE stun (throwing hammers)

NanthielNightwa · 01-13-2006, 09:18 PM

Uuhhhh.... kind of seems like I'd only play an Illusionist for the RP purpose... I'd definately not like the general playstyle... meh...Well, I maybe would, but the spell effects are ugly as hell. When you're choosing the class the trainer is saying stuff about Summoners making Food/Water and Enchanters being able to summon a dragon in hallucination, is that true or is it just making the classes look better?

tawek · 01-13-2006, 10:36 PM

I've not played a Coercer, and due to grass-is-greener syndrome, illusionists on this board will sometimes see the strengths of a coercer, and remember the weaknesses of an Illusionist.

I'd suggest a good look at the Coercer forum. I'm sure there'll be a lot of posts describing that classes weaknesses.

From my limited experience, while coercers have advantages, illusionists do too:

* Our mezzing seems to be better (if you can get your group to cooperate, mesmerization in the right situation is an incredibly powerful ability, and not just for adds).

* Our pet is a lot safer to solo with than a charmed mob, which may turn on you.

* I love our area effect quick stun.

I suspect both classes are about equivalent. The big difference is between a pet and a charm. If you absolutely love your low level charm, go for coercer. If you could do without it, go for illusionist.

Zebsen · 01-13-2006, 11:44 PM

What the trainer tells you is supposed to set the tone for your class. At level 56, I have never summoned an illusory dragon. Maybe at level 150, we'll be doing that, but I doubt it would work on epics...

If you don't like the wizard, and you don't like the ability to control a situation (illusionist), try the summoner route. They are much more complicated than summoning food/water and their abilities seem pretty good across the board (solo, group, epic). They don't have the utility that illusionists do, however. These classes aren't rare though.

There is a reason that the coercer/illusionist classes are rare. They are viewed as "broken" on epics, and sacrificing damage spells for utility/control spells isn't glamorous. It can be rewarding, but it isn't for everyone.

Zebsen

NanthielNightwa · 01-15-2006, 11:00 PM

Charm/Copy is the only difference?
What about damage output - do each just nuke the hell outta them (I know they have very weak nukes, but it's still their nukes), or do they use some kind of procing debuffs or something? I have no idea about this, can someone answer?
Spell looks! I see Illusionists have some kind of light-blue circlish thingy around them. And they use rainbowish spells. What about Coercers? How do their spells look like?
I don't think highly of soloing, which of them is more demanded in groups? I heard Coercers have stuns and Illusionists Mez, isn't stun better? Or do they have smaller durations then?

You can aswell tell me what would kind would suit my character more! (look at the screenies)2 screenies:http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/Matej/pic1.jpghttp://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/Matej/pic2.jpgThanks, (!)Nanthiel Nightwave

Message Edited by NanthielNightwave on 01-15-200612:54 PM

Manyak · 01-16-2006, 10:16 PM

When solo, illusionists have a huge advantage over coercers. Coercers rely on the mob attacking for damage to proc. Illusionists rely on the group (the illu or the pet in this case) to do damage. To come up with similar solo DPS, coercers HAVE to have the mob bash on the pet. Illusionists don't.

In groups, the difference won't really be noticable. Either one really provides the same thing. They both have a mezz, an aoe mezz, a stun/mana drain, and a stifle/mana drain. Illus get one extra mezz (which is [Removed for Content] anyway, trust me), a short aoe stun and an aoe stifle/dot....in place of those coercers get a long stun/deaggro, and a pbaoe stun/DD. But in the end, u should rarely find a use for crowd control in a group anyway.

In raids, coercers are at an advantage over illusionists. Illusionists do provide more DPS, but IMO the coercer's extra mana regen more than makes up for that. Other than that, the differences really aren't noticable.

Belizarius · 01-17-2006, 08:16 AM

NanthielNightwave wrote:Uuhhhh.... kind of seems like I'd only play an Illusionist for the RP purpose... I'd definately not like the general playstyle... meh...Well, I maybe would, but the spell effects are ugly as hell. When you're choosing the class the trainer is saying stuff about Summoners making Food/Water and Enchanters being able to summon a dragon in hallucination, is that true or is it just making the classes look better?

LOL

Talk about false advertising.

Almost grounds for a 'class action' vs SOE

To my thinking, Illusionists are chiefly a mitigation class, using stuns and stifles and dismay to lower a mob's DPS. As mentioned this is very effective against heroics.

We have great crowd control which some players hate because it lowers their DPS (mezzing and AOEs don't go well together).

We are most useful in partial groups, especially if the group lacks either a tank or a healer.

Illusionists solo ok with our pet - but if you are going to solo a lot you are better off with a summoner. Our pets are a mere shadow of what summoner pets can do.

Our raid usefulness is currently fairly broken, due to epic immunity to most of our key spell effects. Despite that we are wanted on raids, mainly for our power regen.

That circle thingy is our power regen buff.

01-13-2006, 08:16 PM	#4
zit General Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 573	NanthielNightwave wrote: 1.) How do each's effects look like? illusionist spell effects... our nukes look like throwing a snowball. about as impressive as the poor damage we nuke for. most other spells are rainbowcolors in variation: rainbowcolor shower, rainbow color explosion, rainbowcolor swirl, etc. some exception are our dispell (snake grafics) and our AE stun (throwing hammers)

01-15-2006, 11:00 PM	#8
NanthielNightwa Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 14	Charm/Copy is the only difference? What about damage output - do each just nuke the hell outta them (I know they have very weak nukes, but it's still their nukes), or do they use some kind of procing debuffs or something? I have no idea about this, can someone answer? Spell looks! I see Illusionists have some kind of light-blue circlish thingy around them. And they use rainbowish spells. What about Coercers? How do their spells look like? I don't think highly of soloing, which of them is more demanded in groups? I heard Coercers have stuns and Illusionists Mez, isn't stun better? Or do they have smaller durations then? You can aswell tell me what would kind would suit my character more! (look at the screenies)2 screenies:http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/Matej/pic1.jpghttp://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/Matej/pic2.jpgThanks, (!)Nanthiel Nightwave Message Edited by NanthielNightwave on 01-15-200612:54 PM

01-16-2006, 10:16 PM	#9
Manyak Tester Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 822	When solo, illusionists have a huge advantage over coercers. Coercers rely on the mob attacking for damage to proc. Illusionists rely on the group (the illu or the pet in this case) to do damage. To come up with similar solo DPS, coercers HAVE to have the mob bash on the pet. Illusionists don't. In groups, the difference won't really be noticable. Either one really provides the same thing. They both have a mezz, an aoe mezz, a stun/mana drain, and a stifle/mana drain. Illus get one extra mezz (which is [Removed for Content] anyway, trust me), a short aoe stun and an aoe stifle/dot....in place of those coercers get a long stun/deaggro, and a pbaoe stun/DD. But in the end, u should rarely find a use for crowd control in a group anyway. In raids, coercers are at an advantage over illusionists. Illusionists do provide more DPS, but IMO the coercer's extra mana regen more than makes up for that. Other than that, the differences really aren't noticable. __________________

01-13-2006, 05:51 PM	#1
NanthielNightwa Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 14	Hello, I'd like some help about deciding my class.I have a level 21 Wizard, but as I see it just isn't the class for me.I'd like to try one of the Enchanter subclasses. So I'd like to know what are the differences between Coercers and Illusionists?1.) How do each's effects look like?2.) Are they useful in groups?3.) Are they useful in Raids?4.) Soloing? (exp) [what do you do in soloing, do you stun/root+nuke the mob to death, or..? and can you AoE solo?]5.) What are their Fun Spells?6.) How many of them are there? (I like to be rare ^^)Thanks,Nanth Message Edited by NanthielNightwave on 01-13-200604:52 AM

01-13-2006, 07:47 PM	#2
Oneira Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 461	I suggest you peruse this board, because there are many posts on the subject, some of which give excellent descriptions of the difference between Illusionists and Coercers. TO what has already been said I'll just add a couple of things from the perspective of a low-level Illusionist who, like you, got sick of playing their Warlock: Illusionists used to be awful at soloing, but now with the Personae Split I can solo much, much better. Coercers with their Charm/Coerce line are said to be even more effective. Regarding 6), Illusionists used to be rare and Coercers very, very rare. That is changing. On Lucan D'Lere the Coercer population has increased greatly and now almost equals the illusionist. Still, Sorcerors and Summoners outnumber Enchanters as a whole a good 2 to 1 in each case. So, you will be part of a lesser-played class if you choose one of the two Enchanters, but don't expect to be the rarest of the rare anymore.

01-13-2006, 07:53 PM	#3
Zebsen Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 185	As for differences between illusionists and coercers, there are several. This topic comes up very frequently, so if you search, you will find a ton of more detailed responses than mine. The primary differences that I'm aware of are that illusionists stiffle mobs keeping them from casting as their primary ability, and stun a little bit. Coercers have better stun spells, completely keeping it from attacking, and stiffle a little bit. For soloing, illusionists create a duplicate. Coercers charm mobs. They each have some more unique spells at 50-60. Coercers (like most evil aligned chars) seem to be more rare and slightly more sought after on my server. 1.) How do each's effects look like? I am not a huge fan of their effects. The stun effects are cool. I wish mezz was more visible that it is. Most damage and dots have minor effects. Color shower, prismatic strife, and casting your pet (personae) are exceptions; personally I find these effects to be fairly annoying since they limit your vision a bit in first person. 2.) Are they useful in groups? Yes, very. Against heroics we really excel, as all of our abilities work. Stuns, stiffles, mana regen, dots, (minor) nukes, etc. 3.) Are they useful in Raids? Not very. Stuns and stiffles don't work on true epics. When you take those away, our damage spells are weak relative to any other damage dealing class. Coercers have the same problem. We bring mana regen and some poor buff/debuffs to a raid. Our DPS varies based on the mobs and such. There are numerous threads on this, and I'm not an expert on raiding. 4.) Soloing? (exp) [what do you do in soloing, do you stun/root+nuke the mob to death, or..? and can you AoE solo?] For illusioinist soloing, you create a pet, and send it in to attack. This is not as strong as a summoner/conjurer pet. I throw in some DOTs on the mob, but mainly I stun and stiffle it to keep the pet alive. I throw in the prismatic line on the pet (melee proc for high damage). Your nukes and DoTs aren't powerful and you'll probably take a little longer to make a kill than some of the other classes, but you're also safer when it comes to adds and such due to mezz. Our AoEs are nothing great till level 50 (color shower). You're more of a damage mitigator with stun, stiffle, and mana regen. I've been in several groups that have thrived without a healer due to these abilities. 5.) What are their Fun Spells? Illusions. Poor ones at that. Ever wanted to be a bald high elf? Or a bald . If you want good illusions for roleplaying purposes, pick a class that starts with hair. Erudites and a few others are bald, so everything the morph into is bald as well. Gnoll illusions are the exceptions and are fairly cool looking. 6.) How many of them are there? (I like to be rare ^^) On my server, illusionists tend to be the second or third most rare class as far as T6 is concerned. Coercers are definitely the rarest. Defilers are pretty rare on my server. When most people get to 60, they want to raid. Our raiding ability is low, leading people to play other characters until we're eventually "fixed". People migrate to useful classes and shelf less useful ones. On raids, we fall into the later category, hence the lack of population.

01-13-2006, 09:18 PM	#5
NanthielNightwa Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 14	Uuhhhh.... kind of seems like I'd only play an Illusionist for the RP purpose... I'd definately not like the general playstyle... meh...Well, I maybe would, but the spell effects are ugly as hell. When you're choosing the class the trainer is saying stuff about Summoners making Food/Water and Enchanters being able to summon a dragon in hallucination, is that true or is it just making the classes look better?

01-13-2006, 10:36 PM	#6
tawek Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 144	I've not played a Coercer, and due to grass-is-greener syndrome, illusionists on this board will sometimes see the strengths of a coercer, and remember the weaknesses of an Illusionist. I'd suggest a good look at the Coercer forum. I'm sure there'll be a lot of posts describing that classes weaknesses. From my limited experience, while coercers have advantages, illusionists do too: * Our mezzing seems to be better (if you can get your group to cooperate, mesmerization in the right situation is an incredibly powerful ability, and not just for adds). * Our pet is a lot safer to solo with than a charmed mob, which may turn on you. * I love our area effect quick stun. I suspect both classes are about equivalent. The big difference is between a pet and a charm. If you absolutely love your low level charm, go for coercer. If you could do without it, go for illusionist.

01-13-2006, 11:44 PM	#7
Zebsen Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 185	What the trainer tells you is supposed to set the tone for your class. At level 56, I have never summoned an illusory dragon. Maybe at level 150, we'll be doing that, but I doubt it would work on epics... If you don't like the wizard, and you don't like the ability to control a situation (illusionist), try the summoner route. They are much more complicated than summoning food/water and their abilities seem pretty good across the board (solo, group, epic). They don't have the utility that illusionists do, however. These classes aren't rare though. There is a reason that the coercer/illusionist classes are rare. They are viewed as "broken" on epics, and sacrificing damage spells for utility/control spells isn't glamorous. It can be rewarding, but it isn't for everyone. Zebsen

01-17-2006, 08:16 AM	#10
Belizarius Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 407	NanthielNightwave wrote:Uuhhhh.... kind of seems like I'd only play an Illusionist for the RP purpose... I'd definately not like the general playstyle... meh...Well, I maybe would, but the spell effects are ugly as hell. When you're choosing the class the trainer is saying stuff about Summoners making Food/Water and Enchanters being able to summon a dragon in hallucination, is that true or is it just making the classes look better? LOL Talk about false advertising. Almost grounds for a 'class action' vs SOE To my thinking, Illusionists are chiefly a mitigation class, using stuns and stifles and dismay to lower a mob's DPS. As mentioned this is very effective against heroics. We have great crowd control which some players hate because it lowers their DPS (mezzing and AOEs don't go well together). We are most useful in partial groups, especially if the group lacks either a tank or a healer. Illusionists solo ok with our pet - but if you are going to solo a lot you are better off with a summoner. Our pets are a mere shadow of what summoner pets can do. Our raid usefulness is currently fairly broken, due to epic immunity to most of our key spell effects. Despite that we are wanted on raids, mainly for our power regen. That circle thingy is our power regen buff.