Two boxing pair of Warlocks - is the AOE enough?

[Fael]

I am recently returning to EQ2.  I only two box.  I play maybe an hour a night if Im lucky, so I only solo.  Also, given my low amount of play time I dont expect to get very high.  So I may never get Devastation.  In just about every MMORPG I end up two (or three) boxing nukers.  Its always the most effective combos I can find. I DO NOT like playing different classes when I two box.  The benefits of diversity are outweighed by the lack of focus and increased difficulty to play for me. I have a couple 16 Sorcerers, that worked great about 6 months ago.  Since the combat revamp, I guess Wizards have gotten relatively better, and are now the best single target nukers.  Warlocks are the best AOE nukers. If I two boxed a pair of Warlocks, would I be able to drop group with a couple casts each of the 20 and 22nd lv AOE spells. Would this be effective for me as a two box soloer? I am really deciding between Warlocks and WIzards.  The evac of the wizard is tempting.  I can still take out groups with a root from each guy, and then targeting a third with both, picking them off one at a time. Ive still got a bit of time, as I have been restarting a bit to test out how I like the appearance of the races.  Its between a pair of bright orange Frogloks or my sunglass wearing gnomes (the Aggro reducer was really nice on my Gnomes and Ratonga when I last played). Comments, Suggestions? Thanks, Mal

[silentpsycho]

I don't know about 2-boxing, but a pair of warlocks used to be (pre CU) pretty devastating.  A friend and I used to roam around TS wreaking havoc on anything we targeted.  Some of the techniques we used may be kind of hard to pull off 2-boxing, but things died very quickly.  Since the CU, however, I imagine this would be fairly tough to do pre-level 34.  Once you hit 34, groups of (non-heroic) mobs would die quickly to a single round of AOE stun/ nuke x2.  This may work on heroics, I don't know.  I haven't found a warlock to duo with post CU, and spend most of my time in a classic tank/healer/dps group.

[Fael]

    Silent,What actually happened since the combat revamp to make them weaker?  Its either two Warlocks or Wizards.  Evac wouldnt hurt, but I the idea of AOEing with a pair of Warlocks sounds like fun.Mal

[Crono1321]

1 warlock 1 wizard...no need to have 2 of the same class having the same immunities, buffs, and strengths...I don't know how good you are at two boxing but building the same class to 60 twice seems dumb to me.

[Fael]

Crono, again.  I DO NOT like playing different classes. I agree it is nice having different buffs is nice, but there is no point in having different strengths.  If one character has a debuff to fire/cold, and the other to poison/disease, they still each only fire/cold or poison/disease damage.  So the buff would only apply to one character, or is half as effective.    With one good single target DDer and one AOE DDer you are a weak single target DDer and a weak AOE DDer.  Ive twoboxed since EQ1 came out, tried all kinds of combos, and two DDers , focusing on their strengths work best (though my Druid/Enchanter combo of fear kiting wasnt bad). And why would building two of the same class be dumb?  Or why is having two different 60th lv characters smart? Mal

[Ronzul]

I think that you're overestimating the difference in AE and single target nuking between warlocks and wizards.  Both can AE and both can single-target nuke very effectively.  With a warlock's stuns and a wizards big single-target nukes, you could keep a single mob stunned for a good portion of a fight and probably hunt heroics.  The two are not so different that you'd have to work to remember which buttons to hit on which computer.

 

That said, the best combo for two-boxing is tank and healer.  I don't know how druid and shaman spells break down in EQ2, but if it's anything like EQ1, then an SK or a bruiser and a shaman would probably be the most effective.

[Fael]

Ronzul, Thanks for the reply.  You pretty much answered my question, as I have been going on the assumption that the Warlock AE was significantly better than Wizard, and Wizard was significantly better than Warlock at single target.  In reading the spell descriptions it seems like Warlocks still have more AOE DDs while Wizards have more AOE DOTs (counting rains as DDs).  And the Wizards have more PBAEs. I figure the keys would be similar enough that I wouldnt have issues hitting the right key. As for best two boxing combos...  There are two kinds of people in the world.  Those the like the Healer/Tank combo, and those that dont.  Im a dont.  The way I see it, the healer by himself can keep 5 people healed.  In a duo, he just doesnt have enough to do.  Every one in a while you drop a heal on the tank.  Sure he can buff as well, but his strength is healing.  And in EQ2, a tank really isnt a damage dealer.  And a Scout really isnt a tank.  So either you have someone that can't do enough damage to be efficient, or someone that takes damage too easily.  Tank/Healer is a pretty safe combo, but in EQ1, they never killed fast enough for me.  Now you can go ALOT more places with a Tank/Healer than a pair of nukers, but I have grown accustomed to hitting two keys on two keyboards and looting. Thanks for the comments, Mal

Message Edited by Faelos on 12-13-2005 08:24 AM

[Darkcreat]

To be perfectly honest, if you are insisting on having 2 nukers of the same class, the BEST option is to make them both summoners.

Hands down the best duo.

 

They have the best utility which is needed in this kind of group. They come with free tanks to expand your group, and you can heal them!

And they are currently top tier DD'ers.

[Fael]

Dark, Yeah, I have been toying with the idea.  I have twoboxed Mages, Necros (EQ1), Enchanters, Cabalist, Sorcerers (DAOC), and Warlocks (WOW).  Enjoyed them all, and found they worked well in those games. I definately will try out Conjurer (only playing Qeynos).  Best soloers, said to be the highest sustained DPS of the casters. Still need to try out a some DDers as well, hehe. Thanks, Mal

[Weizen Heimer]

I am going to throw this out there and then see if I can dodge all the scowls I will get from Wizards. You have said that you may likely never get to 50. Wizards, pre 50 (i.e. pre Ice Comet), most likely can not do any more single target damage than a Warlock, and if they can it would not be much. However, Warlocks will be far superior for taking on AE groups. That said, your best all around choice for all content would probably be Warlocks.

[Darkcreat]

Actually the summoners can keep up with warlocks (pre 50), if not surpass them in AoE once you take into account the pet dmg. So Summoner is still the best choice.

 

[Fael]

Weizen Heimer, Now this is useful information.  Everyone talks about characters as if they are all 60th lv.  I will never see 60th.  I doubt Id ever reach 50th. My choice is Warlocks for AOEing or Wizard for Evac.  Im strongly inclined to go with Warlocks, if the single target DDing isnt much lower than Wizard. Now I also talked to some guys on the Conjurer forum.  One guy ran a Warlock/Wizard duo (Ratonga, so we have more in common).  He said he broke them up and started running Warlock/Necro and Wizard/Conjurer when he had problems in dungeons. Also had a guy say that the Conjurer AOEing was about equal to (or better than) a Warlocks, and was better on sustained DPS. So heres what Ill do. Make a pair of Warlocks and a pair of Conjurers.  If the Warlocks start having problems, I just buy a couple more computers, and run four guys.  Two conjurer pets should take care of aggro, and four guys AOEing should take stuff out quick. Then I could start my own "Ratonga Only" guild. Mal

[UrkBloodA]

two warlocks can do very well against solo groups.  the heroic groups wont be good till you get group root unless you can deal with rooting single on each and a bit of movement on both.

 

in the right spots you can level very very quickly with this combination.  so quickly you might find yourself overburdened with coin, wearing grey gear at level 48.

 

 

[Rowah]

If you HAD to make two casters and did not have any desire whatsoever to have a Tank/blaster combo, then The Conjurer and Wizard should be the combo of choice, or Warlock/Necro.

 

Wizard combo would be nice because of the Evac, but its not mandatory.  Both these combos have the advantage of having a "tank" built in who has nice AOE taunt ever 30 seconds or so.

 

Wizard and Warlock basically do the same thing... at least as far as DPS go, they just do it differently.  Oddly enough the Warlock is the master of DD in the aoe world, and the Wizard while doing the same DPS in the aoe world does it via DOT.  The warlock has an early as in 20's encounter based "stun" for a whole 1 sec!   Meanwhile the wizard got another dot aoe encounter.

 

For me, I duo and have duo'ed two chars in groups and out of groups for 46 levels, so am not speaking of anything from the lvl 60 point of view   I run a SK and Warlock.  In my eyes, nothing seems to be more powerfull that that combo, other than perhaps the Paladin/wizard combo.

 

WIth buffs from my Warlock and the buffs I maintain myself, I am on of the aoe taunt kings!   My Warlock is free to aoe to his hearts content and if they do aggro on him its just before they die.

 

But of course, thats my and how I like to play.  I have played with a buddy at work using Warlock/Wizard.  Basically pre 40's when we got group root it was suicide to attempt Heroic groups.  Not only does root cost a ton of power... as you do have to recast it often!  We found the only way to take down triple up blues was to time our blasts to occur just before the other re-rooted.  Roots seem like they.. break pretty dang often!   Warlock ended up with a mez and the Wizard has one but it stuns him, not so usefull for killing!

 

What I found was with the Mage combo it was not worth the risk/reward for trying heroics.  Occasionally we found a good melee triple up heroic who yielded good exp but a couple bad timings on resists and your a gonner.

 

The Advantage of the Warlock/SK combo was, that if you could find some nice group heroics, the SK had enough self reactive healing and the Warlock did the insane aoe dmg, that you can easily mop the floor with heroic groups.  Single Triple up heroics are your bane though in that formulae.  To much high single hit dmg.  With the tank effectively able to hold single triple up green hroics without taking much dmg... you can still get fast kills for 1% a kill even in the mid 40's.

 

What you will find is that its all fine to kill lots of easy to kill down arrow solo mobs, it just ends up being slower exp than finding a nice area with either single up whites and blue solo mobs(which is painfully absent past say 30?  RE is decent but thats just one place between say 25-36, and you really need to be 32 or higher to kill those entry mobs in RE.)

 

A quick comment on running 2 Conj and 2 wizards   I cant speak to the high level conjurer but I am thinking that its pretty risky to kill even level triple up heroics with a Conj pet tanking and not much healing involved.  If you do go 4 boxing, just get a healer/tank and 2 mag DPS you can easily take on 1% per kill mobs and mow through them.

 

Well hopefully you glean some info from my ramble and no matter what youe nd up choosing, have fun!  An hour a day isnt alot but its plenty enough in EQ2

[Fael]

Thanks for all the comments guys.  I will probably have to try out a pair of Warlocks and try the Conjurer/Warlock combo at some time.  BUT, I made a quick set of Iksar Summoners and [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] these guys can really take some stuff.  Two pets really take the aggro, so I can pretty much DD to my hearts content.  I guess I defected to the Dark Side, but I had to try it out.I will get back to a pair of nukers and a summoner/sorcerer combo at some point though.Thanks again,Mal

[Nylacra]

Anyone out there 2 boxing 2 warlocks? or 2 wizards?

[RFMan]

Actually, until 50+, wizards and warlocks are almost equal at everything.  Warlocks will do better on short-duration aoe encounters because their aoe's are all dd instead of dot's, but they are equal in the long run. Post-50, everything changes, and their specialties really stand out.  If you don't think you'll ever make it there, than you need not worry too much about which one.  I know because, in addition to a 70 warlock, I also now have a 51 wizard.  Post-50, wizards are MUCH better (or at least faster) at taking down single named creatures, but warlocks aren't bad at it (probably better than most other classes save enchanters). If you wanted, though, you could have your wizards go for manaburn immediately, which would essentially be a 2-hit knockout punch on any named creature in existence, as long as you kept it rooted long enough for manaburn immunity to go away.  Just a note: manaburn does NOT take off all your mana UNLESS you don't have enough mana to take off 50% of their hitpoints.  21 aa's wouldn't be hard to get, especially soloing all the time.

[Stuffnstu]

A lot of what i've read is true, pre 50 Warlocks and Wizards are about equal.  Post 50 it changes significantly. Warlocks are amazing at AE dps especially for PVP.

Warlocks do ridiculous amounts of damage to encounters in DoTs and DD, better than any class at it for sure.

Wizards have a much easier time farming named and do a bit more damage single target.

Group a wizard and a warlock together and a wizard wins in DPS single target, two mobs its about even, three+ mobs a warlock wins hands down, provided its a single encounter and the mobs have enough HP for both casters to burn their big spells.

[RFMan]

Stuffnstuff wrote:

A lot of what i've read is true, pre 50 Warlocks and Wizards are about equal.  Post 50 it changes significantly. Warlocks are amazing at AE dps especially for PVP.

Warlocks do ridiculous amounts of damage to encounters in DoTs and DD, better than any class at it for sure.

Wizards have a much easier time farming named and do a bit more damage single target.

Group a wizard and a warlock together and a wizard wins in DPS single target, two mobs its about even, three+ mobs a warlock wins hands down, provided its a single encounter and the mobs have enough HP for both casters to burn their big spells.

Actually, I've found that I still out-dps most wizards even on single encounters, primarily because both wizards and warlocks are difficult classes to maximize dps with; therefore, only a few wizards are actually capable of out-dpsing me.  If all things were equal, then yes, the wizard should do far more, but things are not equal between most players and myself.  If you're a skilled warlock, expect to continually top the dps charts regardless.