Wizards Do Have Utility!!!

[Dyshar]

I would like to start off by saying that i am a lvl 47 warlock with a Illusionist alt and that i have never played a wizard.  With that said i have looked at the wizard spell list and have come to that wizards have alot of utility, more so than warlocks.

 

Here it goes:

To start wizards have the snowfilled steps line of spells that increase elemental mitagation as well as see invisible

   warlocks get a useless sonic vision with their spell that makes the screen yellow.

 

Wizards get a Mezz.

Warlocks get no such thing.

 

The amplification line of buffs all offensive skills as well as buffing for magic and elemental dmg.

Warlocks get an Out of Combat +4 to the power regen per tick as well as buffing for magic and noxious dmg.

 

Wizards get a legit stifle.

Warlocks have to pray that the one on one of thier low dmg nukes proc.

 

Wizards have a 10 min buff that buffs health pools and elemental dmg.

Warlocks ave a 10 min buff that buffs power pools.

 

Wizards have another spell that gives see stealth but it also increases int and wis on its allies.

Warlocks get a see stealth also but ours give auravision (actually it gives fish vision instead for some reason)

 

From what i hear from wizzy friends all of your buffs cause dmg (dunno if this is utility but it sure is nice)

 

You guys also dominate in power transfers

But warlocks are more mana efficient

 

Another thing is that you guys get evac.  My friends have saved my group many times when there is no scout in the group/ or when the scouts evac is not up.

 

Maybe this is why warlocks can do more dmg than you guys.

 

Another thing that i have noticed with the classes of the same archtype such as Guardian/zerkers, illusionist/Coercer, Monk/Bruiser, Ranger/Assassin is that one is more offensive while the other is a bit more defensive ( just an observation, i might be wrong)

 

Just thought i would give you guys my 2copper

 

Ps. Please dont go off the deep end with the replies, i have seen how you guys can get. Also remember that its just a game and have fun.

 

 

Dyshar 47 warlock

Grobb Server

Message Edited by Dyshar on 06-30-2005 09:40 AM

[Dyshar]

and here we go.....

[Angre]

Do you expect anything less?

---

Dyshar wrote:

I would like to start off by saying that i am a lvl 47 warlock with a Illusionist alt and that i have never played a wizard. 

---

So you write a half page post about something you know nothing about in a forum where the people do know about it.

 

Does anyone have the address for MIT's message board. I think I'll throw up a post about nuclear fusion. I have a buddy who told me something about it.

[anshar]

Dyshar, while I am not certain as to the extent of dps differences, it seems to be pretty standardly understood that at the higher levels at least, wizards begin to fall behind. It seems to get worse with levels. I am pretty certain noone wants to hear *why* there is an imbalance. Based on SOEs 'vision' there really is no explanaition for a disparity. Let's stop telling everyone why its ok. Heck, I am a Warlock, and its not ok by me for wizards to fall behind in DPS. Having a fellow sorcerer whose abilities are synergistic with mine, and approximately as effective? Yes! Please sir, may I have some more.

[Dyshar]

Thanks for the feedback guys, i am not saying this is the way it should be, its just my oberservation on things. i hope with the new combat changes that they actually balance us with our uilities and dmg.

As for Angre please GROW UP, eventhough i dont play a wizard i can still make an observation on how things are working. Also the MIT skit you came up with is Hilarious, Do you write your own material? 

[Stavenh]

to start wizards have the snowfilled steps line of spells that increase elemental mitagation as well as see invisible
warlocks get a useless sonic vision with their spell that makes the screen yellow.

First, what does seeing invis get you in this game? There are no mobs wandering around with invisiblity cast on them?

Snow filled steppes gives 150 heat and cold in the resists they give. As for see invis, we have other spells that grant see invis too.

Wizards get a Mezz.
Warlocks get no such thing.

Which also mezzes us so all we do is stand there mezzed along with the mob. Not as handy as you think. I'm one of the most, Hey, I found a cool way to use this spells kinda wizard around, and I have yet to find a way to work our mezzes into play that are effective. 

The amplification line of buffs all offensive skills as well as buffing for magic and elemental dmg.
Warlocks get an Out of Combat +4 to the power regen per tick as well as buffing for magic and noxious dmg.

You get a line of similar spells, only they work for posion and disease. Across the three classes, sorcerer, enchanter and summoner, they all get a line of concentration buffs that act the same, just with different focuses. On top, they stack, so once a group has the 4 orchtypes, picking up other mages of a different kind is good. Mages int goes up really high, and every other class gets a boost in things like STR and AGI.


Wizards get a legit stifle.
Warlocks have to pray that the one on one of thier low dmg nukes proc.

Warlocks get stifles. You also have one more line of stuns then we do. Oh and a stun that effects epic mobs. None of our stuns or stifles effect epic mobs. Don't you also get a spell that does damage and has a chance of stifling all the mobs in the encounter?

Wizards have a 10 min buff that buffs health pools and elemental dmg.
Warlocks ave a 10 min buff that buffs power pools.

Yes ours gives health and about 340 in resists. But don't you get several other spells that buf posion and disease resists?

Wizards have another spell that gives see stealth but it also increases int and wis on its allies.
Warlocks get a see stealth also but ours give auravision (actually it gives fish vision instead for some reason)

I believe see invis and see stealth do the same thing. And again, what good does that do, when mobs don't cast invis on themselves? Yay I can see the player sneaking around me. 

From what i hear from wizzy friends all of your buffs cause dmg (dunno if this is utility but it sure is nice)

Do you mean debuffs do damage? They sure do. So do many of your debuffs. If you mean buffs, No. We have a weapon proc that gives the person a 5% chance to do extra damage when they hit a mob. We have a buff that restores power to the player 5% when they are hit. level 50, adept 1 is 64 power returned. Never seen a tank get enough power back from this to make a difference. And I use it, knowing this cause hey, one day... And we get a damage shield, 10% to inflic damage when struck. I have seen this make a difference. It's the best buff we can offer. I've had mobs hit me, and die from the DS, because they had very little health left.


You guys also dominate in power transfers
But warlocks are more mana efficient

Yes, we do, but at a price. It's not like power is flying out of our...we lose some health and we are stunned when we do this. But lets not forget, you get power transfers to. They might not be as much as wizards, but you also get spells that damage and return power. Basically number by number, we are very close, your's is just spread out over more spells and work in different ways.

Another thing is that you guys get evac.  My friends have saved my group many times when there is no scout in the group/ or when the scouts evac is not up.

I've said this over and over. Evac isn't the beat all you seem to think. With a 5 second interuptable casting time, more often then not, you will lose the tank or another party member before it goes off, since you use it when things are going wrong. Also, we are not the only class outside of scouts to get evac. And if you have a wizard friend, why did you have to go and read a list of spells, why ask us questions like, is it true all your buffs do damage? You could just ask your friend and get the correct answers from him.  


Maybe this is why warlocks can do more dmg than you guys.

Another thing that i have noticed with the classes of the same archtype such as Guardian/zerkers, illusionist/Coercer, Monk/Bruiser, Ranger/Assassin is that one is more offensive while the other is a bit more defensive ( just an observation, i might be wrong)


Wizards don't have amazing defenses. The most amount of resists I give is just over 14 of heat resist, and about 800 cold. As of STR and INT buffs, I can buff up to +54 int (or there abouts) and I believe 26 str. And yes, we can raise the following skills, crushing, piericing, slashing, ranged and subjugation +4. I know warlocks get buffs that raise INT and STR, and I'm sure they get other stuff.

Just thought i would give you guys my 2copper

There have been many threads in here, the WIZARD forum about this. Now, you have the right to post anywhere you want. However, keep in mind, wizards are tired of warlocks coming here with these kinds of post. More so when a warlock has simply gone and read about the spells, and doesn't know what they actually involve. And you have left out your utilities or under played them

Ps. Please dont go off the deep end with the replies, i have seen how you guys can get. Also remember that its just a game and have fun.

And we've seen how warlocks can be, so it's EQUAL on both sides. But let me ask you, what was even the point of posting this? To me it seems like a very poliet way of saying, wizards have better utilites then warlocks, there for, we deserve to be top DPS in the game, oh and don't flame me.

Message Edited by Stavenham on 06-30-2005 12:55 PM

Message Edited by Stavenham on 07-01-2005 05:14 AM

[suroktheslayer5]

This dead horse will only be settled by somone that has made a lv 50 wiz and a lv 50 warlock. PLZ IF YOU ARE OUT THERE, BURY THIS DEAD HORSE ONCE AND FOR ALL! Surok

[TheWhiteRaid]

---

Dyshar wrote:

 

 

The amplification line of buffs all offensive skills as well as buffing for magic and elemental dmg.

Warlocks get an Out of Combat +4 to the power regen per tick as well as buffing for magic and noxious dmg.

 

---

We don't get magic defense buffs.

---

From what i hear from wizzy friends all of your buffs cause dmg (dunno if this is utility but it sure is nice)

---

Well I don't know what your friend is alluding too.   Here is something that Warlocks tend to miss.   Flame tounge has half the chance to go off as your Venomous Runes.  

 

---

Wizards get a Mezz.

Warlocks get no such thing.

---

Once again another person who makes our mez look like such a important spell.  Let me tell you I don't know a wizard who uses it.  I haven't used it since level 30 because it is useless.

 

Either way threads like this are pointless because we know where the Devs stand.

Message Edited by TheWhiteRaider on 06-30-2005 08:40 PM

[slippery]

bleh

Message Edited by canoppener on 06-30-2005 09:26 PM

[Dae]

Regarding the Warlock stifles (Suffocating Breath, Suffocating Cloud, Dark Pyre and Abysmal Fury)... they don't work. The effect is totally and utterly unquantifiable. They also do utterly awful damage. Their only use (and it's not even a use really) is to advance/finish certain HOs.

[Tuone]

Well, folks its amusing to read your posts about wizzies, what do you actually expect from you char - to cast a spell that instantly kills all mobs in your sight? Well, be serious. Every class has its role in the game, healers for instance can't kill a fly at higher levels, but well, killing is not their speciality. And if you envy tanks that they can just go bashing and slashing and take all that damage, well thats what they are good at. Our speciality is to provide support fire and yes power for other groupmates. So just focus on that. That is what you are meant to do.

One more thing, my advice is - find good groupmates that you see eye to eye with and just stick with them, I for instance have been grouping with the same people for last 20 levels or so. We have been doing some wondrous things. Plus you get to know people better and have more fun.

And please in your posts try to show some respect to each other, there is no reason to call someone DA or else, as he can call you back and how do you know he is not right? Anyway, enjoy the chat and don't be rude.  

Cheers big ears

[roarfrost]

Tuonela, come on back and tell us how cheerfull you are at level 50 when you can't damage raid mobs worth a [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot].

 

[Stavenh]

---

Tuonela wrote:

Well, folks its amusing to read your posts about wizzies, what do you actually expect from you char - to cast a spell that instantly kills all mobs in your sight? Well, be serious. Every class has its role in the game, healers for instance can't kill a fly at higher levels, but well, killing is not their speciality. And if you envy tanks that they can just go bashing and slashing and take all that damage, well thats what they are good at. Our speciality is to provide support fire and yes power for other groupmates. So just focus on that. That is what you are meant to do.

One more thing, my advice is - find good groupmates that you see eye to eye with and just stick with them, I for instance have been grouping with the same people for last 20 levels or so. We have been doing some wondrous things. Plus you get to know people better and have more fun.

And please in your posts try to show some respect to each other, there is no reason to call someone DA or else, as he can call you back and how do you know he is not right? Anyway, enjoy the chat and don't be rude.  

Cheers big ears

---

As is reading your post about something you didn't seem to comprehend.Cheers back at you.

[Lady Uaelr]

---

Dyshar wrote:

I would like to start off by saying that i am a lvl 47 warlock with a Illusionist alt and that i have never played a wizard.  With that said i have looked at the wizard spell list and have come to that wizards have alot of utility, more so than warlocks.

 

Here it goes:

To start wizards have the snowfilled steps line of spells that increase elemental mitagation as well as see invisible

   warlocks get a useless sonic vision with their spell that makes the screen yellow.

 

Wizards get a Mezz.

Warlocks get no such thing.

 

The amplification line of buffs all offensive skills as well as buffing for magic and elemental dmg.

Warlocks get an Out of Combat +4 to the power regen per tick as well as buffing for magic and noxious dmg.

 

Wizards get a legit stifle.

Warlocks have to pray that the one on one of thier low dmg nukes proc.

 

Wizards have a 10 min buff that buffs health pools and elemental dmg.

Warlocks ave a 10 min buff that buffs power pools.

 

Wizards have another spell that gives see stealth but it also increases int and wis on its allies.

Warlocks get a see stealth also but ours give auravision (actually it gives fish vision instead for some reason)

 

From what i hear from wizzy friends all of your buffs cause dmg (dunno if this is utility but it sure is nice)

 

You guys also dominate in power transfers

But warlocks are more mana efficient

 

Another thing is that you guys get evac.  My friends have saved my group many times when there is no scout in the group/ or when the scouts evac is not up.

 

Maybe this is why warlocks can do more dmg than you guys.

 

Another thing that i have noticed with the classes of the same archtype such as Guardian/zerkers, illusionist/Coercer, Monk/Bruiser, Ranger/Assassin is that one is more offensive while the other is a bit more defensive ( just an observation, i might be wrong)

 

Just thought i would give you guys my 2copper

 

Ps. Please dont go off the deep end with the replies, i have seen how you guys can get. Also remember that its just a game and have fun.

 

 

Dyshar 47 warlock

Grobb Server

Message Edited by Dyshar on 06-30-2005 09:40 AM

---

Honestly, what is the purpose of this thread.

 

Are things that boring around here that we have to bring this up again.

 

Dear Mr.Dyshar,

 

You are entitled to your opinion.

 

Cheers...

 

 

[Lady Uaelr]

Blah:womantongue:

Message Edited by Lady Uaelrea on 07-01-2005 08:32 AM

[Skwor]

Please don't feed the trolls.

[Tar~Palantir]

I am so sick of warlocks cluttering our forum with useless threads and trying to convince us we are actually good.  If you want to motivate people on subjects which you know nothing about, become a televangelist and stop posting here.

[Tuone]

hehe, fun, fun, fun. Perhaps I failed to compehend something, but surely not the main line. The lad (warlock boy) simply wanted to cheer us wizzies up, by saying something like: "look mates yes your folkwagen is not equal to the ferrary some people drive, but its nonetheless good" And some just started hammering him back. Well, I agree, some of the examples he used are not the best set, but it was not his main point. So lets just appreciate his efforts in return. As to those moaning and crying about how bad wizzies are SUPPOSEDLY are, should I send you a bucket to fill it with your tears or a kerchief would be enough?

As of this thread, if one does not like the subject, one can go chat eslewhere, very simple. We should focus on discussing our utility, if there is any. At the moment it sounds like wizzies are bad and thats it.  

[Stavenh]

---

Tuonela wrote:

hehe, fun, fun, fun. Perhaps I failed to compehend something, but surely not the main line. The lad (warlock boy) simply wanted to cheer us wizzies up, by saying something like: "look mates yes your folkwagen is not equal to the ferrary some people drive, but its nonetheless good" And some just started hammering him back. Well, I agree, some of the examples he used are not the best set, but it was not his main point. So lets just appreciate his efforts in return. As to those moaning and crying about how bad wizzies are SUPPOSEDLY are, should I send you a bucket to fill it with your tears or a kerchief would be enough?

As of this thread, if one does not like the subject, one can go chat eslewhere, very simple. We should focus on discussing our utility, if there is any. At the moment it sounds like wizzies are bad and thats it.  

---

Sorry, but it would have been a better attempt at cheering up wizards if he hadn't been so wrong about many things, and hadn't underplayed what some of the warlock spells do.As for wizards being bad, that is just perception.The number of spells we have that aren't working is 1, protoflame, which they know is not working right, and has a high chance of not getting fixed before the revamp. There are other classes with more then just one spell not working.There are some spells which just aren't up to what they should be at thier level. Ice spike (lvl 17) should not list more damage then Flamestrike (lvl 46). That's 28 levels of difference. The possible dot on flamestrike doesn't make any difference, as it seldom goes off. Compared to warlocks, wizards have much less DPS, compared to other classes, we have much more. When I am grouped with my friends, MY DPS is higher then everyone elses, across the board, at all times. I do not parse damage anymore, because that doesn't interst me, but some of my friends do, and will tell me. But I also don't need a parser. My eyes tell me the truth. If we pull a multi mob encounter, and I kill 3-4 mobs in the encounter myself, I've certainly done more damage then the rest of the group that was either focusing on the same mob as the tank, or healing the tank.Raid mobs are not a reflection on what wizards can do, it's a reflection on the development of the game, and how it was built. It's not some accident that mobs where built the way they were.Our spells cost alot of power. Much more then warlock spells, some of which return power. Our spell costs are more in line with other classes. If anything, warlocks spells don't cost enough, but I don't believe in calling on a nerf for other classes. However, compared to all the other classes, wizards have much more self resources for restoring power. I can quite easily get back around 1k power in about 25 seconds. This is outside of regen items. Where other classes are OOP I'm recharging for more.The issues wizards face, when compared to warlocks CAN seem like we suck. But compared to the rest of the classes, they see wizards as sitting pretty.

[Tar~Palantir]

---

Stavenham wrote:

---

Tuonela wrote:

hehe, fun, fun, fun. Perhaps I failed to compehend something, but surely not the main line. The lad (warlock boy) simply wanted to cheer us wizzies up, by saying something like: "look mates yes your folkwagen is not equal to the ferrary some people drive, but its nonetheless good" And some just started hammering him back. Well, I agree, some of the examples he used are not the best set, but it was not his main point. So lets just appreciate his efforts in return. As to those moaning and crying about how bad wizzies are SUPPOSEDLY are, should I send you a bucket to fill it with your tears or a kerchief would be enough?

As of this thread, if one does not like the subject, one can go chat eslewhere, very simple. We should focus on discussing our utility, if there is any. At the moment it sounds like wizzies are bad and thats it.  

---

Sorry, but it would have been a better attempt at cheering up wizards if he hadn't been so wrong about many things, and hadn't underplayed what some of the warlock spells do.

As for wizards being bad, that is just perception.

The number of spells we have that aren't working is 1, protoflame, which they know is not working right, and has a high chance of not getting fixed before the revamp. There are other classes with more then just one spell not working.

There are some spells which just aren't up to what they should be at thier level. Ice spike (lvl 17) should not list more damage then Flamestrike (lvl 46). That's 28 levels of difference. The possible dot on flamestrike doesn't make any difference, as it seldom goes off.

Compared to warlocks, wizards have much less DPS, compared to other classes, we have much more. When I am grouped with my friends, MY DPS is higher then everyone elses, across the board, at all times. I do not parse damage anymore, because that doesn't interst me, but some of my friends do, and will tell me. But I also don't need a parser. My eyes tell me the truth. If we pull a multi mob encounter, and I kill 3-4 mobs in the encounter myself, I've certainly done more damage then the rest of the group that was either focusing on the same mob as the tank, or healing the tank.

Raid mobs are not a reflection on what wizards can do, it's a reflection on the development of the game, and how it was built. It's not some accident that mobs where built the way they were.

Our spells cost alot of power. Much more then warlock spells, some of which return power. Our spell costs are more in line with other classes. If anything, warlocks spells don't cost enough, but I don't believe in calling on a nerf for other classes.

However, compared to all the other classes, wizards have much more self resources for restoring power. I can quite easily get back around 1k power in about 25 seconds. This is outside of regen items. Where other classes are OOP I'm recharging for more.

The issues wizards face, when compared to warlocks CAN seem like we suck. But compared to the rest of the classes, they see wizards as sitting pretty.

---

That makes me feel half better, though, what are we supposed to do when mr. warlock joins the group...slink awa with our tail between our legs, burn mana to maybe attempt to get close to his DPS.  Of course, we could jsut be ourselves, but 90% of the time, the warlock feels the need to grind it into your face that he can out DPS you. I have met 1 maybe 2 warlocks that didn't pipe up about how they are gods and that I suck.

[Stavenh]

---

Tar~Palantir wrote:

That makes me feel half better, though, what are we supposed to do when mr. warlock joins the group...slink awa with our tail between our legs, burn mana to maybe attempt to get close to his DPS.  Of course, we could jsut be ourselves, but 90% of the time, the warlock feels the need to grind it into your face that he can out DPS you. I have met 1 maybe 2 warlocks that didn't pipe up about how they are gods and that I suck.

---

All that does is show thier poor real life character. How you chose to handle it, will of course reflect your real character.

However, if what I feel about the revamp comes to pass, warlocks won't be so smug. And of course, we will be the ones they blame.

[Tar~Palantir]

---

Stavenham wrote:

---

Tar~Palantir wrote:

That makes me feel half better, though, what are we supposed to do when mr. warlock joins the group...slink awa with our tail between our legs, burn mana to maybe attempt to get close to his DPS.  Of course, we could jsut be ourselves, but 90% of the time, the warlock feels the need to grind it into your face that he can out DPS you. I have met 1 maybe 2 warlocks that didn't pipe up about how they are gods and that I suck.

---

All that does is show thier poor real life character. How you chose to handle it, will of course reflect your real character.

However, if what I feel about the revamp comes to pass, warlocks won't be so smug. And of course, we will be the ones they blame.

---

I look forward to that day with all my heart, all my mind, and all my bloody soul.

[Skwor]

---

Stavenham wrote:


The number of spells we have that aren't working is 1, protoflame, which they know is not working right, and has a high chance of not getting fixed before the revamp. There are other classes with more then just one spell not working.

There are some spells which just aren't up to what they should be at thier level. Ice spike (lvl 17) should not list more damage then Flamestrike (lvl 46). That's 28 levels of difference. The possible dot on flamestrike doesn't make any difference, as it seldom goes off.

---

Stave I would argue we have more than one spell which isn't working right (I understand this is more a matter of degree and how we view things). Let’s consider Benumb and Enfeeblement. Benumb level 30.6, Enfeeblement Level 42. Both are stifles both are on the same timer, both last 10 seconds, both have a 20 second recast, both have the same cast time.

Now this in my opinion is a little messed up, here's why. Enfeeblement a spell 12 levels higher has only one difference, it works on level 60 mobs where Benumb only works on level 46. Great, except I don't see that as an increase in spell ability, ergo power. I consider this broken. VF should do more than increase in level of mob usability. This is a subtle distinction of broke but something seems missing, perhaps a longer duration. Only the designers would know the facts. I think we both can agree though, this spell does not scale in any tangible way other than level usage which is only preventing the spell line from becoming unavailable.

What is really happening is the lower spell will become useless so they give us the same spell and now make it effective for the rest of the levels we need it to work in. The only real net effect on us is that we have to spend cash to upgrade the same spell over; assuming upgrading it does something to improve it, this I am not convinced of yet.

Now let’s look at another spell set. Discretionary Flow verses Vital Flow This example I will reference the level 42 wizard (that is currently my wizard level) DF 170/320 = 53.1% efficiency, VF 187/340 = 55.0% efficiency, spell level difference 11 levels at base, 12 levels current usage level, both adept one. Here is presented another example of having to pay to upgrade the same spell over again (as they are also on the same timer). While technically an improvement, does any reasonable gamer consider a 17 point power boost (where the average power pool is 2.2k) and less than 2% efficiency increase for a spell difference of 12 levels something to get excited about? I personally don't.

Of course there are classes that have it much worse than we do, this is why SOE is literally rewriting a core element of the game. I am not inclined to let SOE off the hook, rewriting all the combat elements for all the classes both melee and spell skills this far into the game release is both a credit and a sad commentary for the state of the game. I am reminded of a quote "If you can't find time to do it right the first time, where are you going find time to do it right the second time?" anonymous.

In conclusion, there are more spells broke than just one and the class has more issues than just resistances from my perspective. I do hope they get the game play right this time. Let's not forget though it's the same team that wrote the game so they have to now do two things at once. Learn fast from their mistakes and then figure out how to fix them, all this under the umbrella of making the game fun, challenging and giving it longevity. I do have faith they can do this, but please don't rush them (and designers please don't rush!). I believe it was rushed to release and this caused some of the problems we see today.

 

 

[Stavenh]

Those spells aren't broken, because they work. Protoflame is broken because it doesn't do what it's supposed to so.

Spells like benumb and enfeeblement are designed that way so encounters are not trivalized. Both spells work. Same with the power heals. The timers being linked was not an accident, or mistake. If we could use every single power heal it would be over balancing. Power heals and wards make for a very powerful combination.

So would being able to chain stun/stifle.

[Skwor]

Stav, I agree they perform a function but if playing a wizard means I get to look forward to a spell that only increases in its level it can affect then I can honestly say I won't be playing. In fact I am sure many others won't be either.

I understand they made them that way. I also know they are now rewriting the whole shebang. As such it is obvious they missed the mark and I think Benumb and Enfeeblement reflect that well. I don't see the sense in defending a spell line that only results in you spending money because it can't affect the higher levels. So you look forward to a new spell that does exactly the same thing only now it works for 14 more levels. This is not a gradual increase in power or any increase in any ability. It is merely a money sink.

I know they don't want them on the same timer. I never suggested they should be different. That was my point, that they are the same spell and only made to drain coin from the economy. Making a spell line obsolete just to drain coin is missing the point for player desires. Sure it helps the economy but it kills any fun value whatsoever. Now if you can give any good reason why benumb is followed with enfeeblement where the only advantage is the added 14 levels (which of course we need but is hardly an upgrade) I would love to hear it. I concede having a spell work on higher levels is useful but honestly making you buy upgrades again for something you already achieved and now effectively lost hardly adds to character dimension, or provide for a feeling of gradual character growth.

The total effect is that you lose that spell and then regain it back again, that is broke imo. Having worked a long time as a troubleshooter in a technical field I assure you just because something performs a function doesn't mean it's not broke. Does it perform its intended function, does it fulfill the role the designed required, etc all play into this

Waiting 12 levels to get back what I had already achieved is not fun. I suggest SOE has realized that, after all one of the reasons for this whole revamp is to make character growth feel more tangible. It seems to me SOE has picked up on this after all. 

 

 

[Stavenh]

I'm not defending it, I'm saying it's not broken.

The design isn't the best yes, but that doesn't mean they are broken. Because they are working as designed.

And you don't have to spend money, since you get the spells for free, and you can get lucky and get an adept 1 drop. Sure, apprentice 1 stinks, and app4 is often equal to or just under adept 1. But again, why upgrade Truss from app1? app1 adept1 and master1 all do the same.

So it doesn't cost you anything when you get app1 Truss.

Protoflame is meant to do more then 1-5 damage. When killed it's meant to do damage. But it doesn't it's so it's broken.

As for getting new spells that are only the same spell as before, all classes have that, it's nothing special to wizards.

[Skwor]

Oh, I fully agree others have the same issue, some classes much worse than wizards. Gotta laugh here, don't you find it poor form that a spell like Truss has all these "upgrade" versions that do absolutly nothing? Doesn't that scream mistake? Why put so many useless items in a game such as truss upgrades that have no benifit.

 

Knowing you to be a voice of reason I am intrested in a little speculation on this; perhaps as to why so many issues like this happen to exist in the game?

[Stavenh]

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Skwor wrote:

Oh, I fully agree others have the same issue, some classes much worse than wizards. Gotta laugh here, don't you find it poor form that a spell like Truss has all these "upgrade" versions that do absolutly nothing? Doesn't that scream mistake? Why put so many useless items in a game such as truss upgrades that have no benifit.

 

Knowing you to be a voice of reason I am intrested in a little speculation on this; perhaps as to why so many issues like this happen to exist in the game?

---

No, to me it doesn't scream mistake, it screams poor design, and poor communication. It also screams that maybe it was done on purpose to fill out spells where some classes might not need as many spells. If the difference in the number of spells between all the classes is to large, people will say they were cheated.

So, rather then have a spell called tether scale as you level, you stick a level cap on it and then give another spell the same effects with a higher level cap and ta da, you have two spells that are essentially the same.

As far as I know, you skill level is the main factor in determining resists and fizzles. Perhaps quality of spell does to. Certainly a Master version of a spell would be harder to resist then an apperntice? I don't think this is true, currently. My Ring of Cold is seldom resisted and it's only at app4. Even against higher level mobs. Which is why I think it's skill that resists are compared to. So other then a minor increase in damage, I haven't upgraded to adept3 yet.

So maybe under the revamp, quality will matter when checking a mobs resist. I certainly hope that every single spell that has quality level actually does make a difference. For roots like Truss, I feel we will see the duration and maybe the effective level go down for apprentice 1-4. Adpet 1 might also take a drop, and adept 3 and master 1 might go up.

Currently Truss, regardless of quality holds 27 seconds. So we might see something like this:

App1-duration 12 seconds
App2-duration 14 seconds
App3-duration 16 seconds
App4-duration 18 seconds

Adept1-duration 24 seconds
Adept3-duration 30 seconds

Master1-duration 34 seconds.

So adept 1 losses 3 seconds, Adept 3 gains 3 seconds, and master 1 gains 7 seconds over all.

I made these numbers up, and have no proof this is how it's going to be. But if you knew you could increase the duration of a root by going up in spell quality, wouldn't you? And it certainly seems logical. And I certainly hope so, since I just got Truss Master 1.

I work at a company as big as SoE is, and probablly follow a similar business model or work flow in the sense that I'm responsible for doing _____________. I'm a production artist for a publisher of text books. I actually make the files for the printer, and I also make art for the books. I have no say (and don't want any) over the editorial side of the content. If I spot a mistake in the editorial conent, I have to note it, send it with the layout back to editorial and if they don't change it, it doesn't get changed.

What I do doesn't have as many steps as does building a game like EQ2. I'm sure there is some one that designs the spells, then someone that approves them, some one that makes the art, someone that writes the code, someone that builds the data base, someone that tests it and so on. The person that designs the spell doesn't do all the work to make the spell live. The person that designs it might not even have final say over it. My boss can make changes to the design of a book, as can her boss make changes to what she decides. As can the excutive editor make design changes, which then results in going back and trying to make universal changes to something that has been signed off on.

So, a spell like Truss having quality levels that don't actually make the spell better. I would imagine that it was something that was either decided to leave and fix later, or just an oversite.