What's the point of playing a Wizard anyore?

[UpurBloodst]

Topic.

 

I just don't see why anyone would want to start or continue playing the Wizard class anymore.  I mean, a decent Warlock can do so much more damage than Wizards pretty much at any level, and since each class has about the same utility, why would you want to go with the weaker Wizard over a Warlock?  Don't get me wrong - I love Wizards...but it just doesn't seem logical to choose the lesser of the two.

 

Discuss.

[IllusiveThoughts]

for god sakes man will nothing ever make you happy?

 

We had a huge outcry for increased damage, we got it.  warlocks got the better end of the scale, and now all I hear are people complaining again.  what happenes if they nerf warlocks? more whining, what happenes if they boost us up but somehow slightly go higher than warlock dps, more whining.

 

what happens if they adjust us, other classes get envy because they've already tweaked us once.  whine whine whine,  it gets old.

[Luminox19]

One day I will seriously be happy when these debates stop coming up...I digress however.  My reason for playing a wizard is because not only do we do very good damage but we have more utility in my eyes than Warlocks.  Do I think we could do a touch more damage...sure but quite honestly I'm sure the Warlocks would love to have evac.  I enjoy saving groups with Power Transfers, Ghetto Crowd Control, Evac.  If you think playing a Wizard is "the lesser of the two" by all means play a warlock but we both have our roles, play the cards SOE deals you and trust me the hands will change from time to time.  I've found that damage is very situational when it comes to Warlocks and Wizards but I've found my utility come into play much more than theirs.

 

With all that being said Warlocks and Wizards compliment each other very well.  I think the style at which you play the class speaks dividends in what you get out of the class.

 

There are still bugs to be worked out between the two subclasses and I look forward to those.

 

Luminox Thebulb

46 Wizard of Phalanx

Crushbone

[Nacoa]

The point of playing a Wizard is we know what SOE says they want the class to be, and it fits in to what I want to play. Of course the class is not balanced perfectly yet. But it will end up being what I want it to be.For example, I strongly suspect that Warlocks are going to get a DD nerf. That way wizards end up being the big nukers, and Warlocks end up being the big DoTers. Which will be more valuable in the end? The one that's got the best player at the keyboard.

Message Edited by Nacoa on 03-03-2005 12:34 PM

[Yorc]

Wow now this is a shocker of a thread. Somebody whining in the wizards forum? [Removed for Content]?

[LohanGalt]

Can I have your stuff?

[BlazTink]

---

UpurBloodstab wrote:

Topic.

 

I just don't see why anyone would want to start or continue playing the Wizard class anymore.  I mean, a decent Warlock can do so much more damage than Wizards pretty much at any level, and since each class has about the same utility, why would you want to go with the weaker Wizard over a Warlock?  Don't get me wrong - I love Wizards...but it just doesn't seem logical to choose the lesser of the two.

 

Discuss.

---

I completely agree with you, but sadly so many people seem to want to ignore the fact that one of the Sorcerer subclasses is much weaker than the other from lvl 23 all the way to lvl 50. I don't know about the others, but I picked a Wizard because I expected them to be all-out-dmg, and no defense. As promised, I have no defense...as for my damage, it is marginal compared to a Warlock's. I really have no idea why someone, having all the info, would invite a Wizard instead of a Warlock to a group. They can fulfill the DPS role much better than us. And yes, there's Evac from lvl 38 onward...but it sucks compared to a scout's(and they get it at 25). The little utility it provides in no way justifies the outrageous damage margin Warlocks have over us. And, as said before, I picked a Wizard because I wanted to NUKE HARD, not be a Mana-Slave or have a crappy version of the Scout Evac. Ignore it if you will, call me a whiner if you will. It is the truth.

[Soccerfourlyfe]

Ok, ppl.....

You cant have your cake and eat it too.   We got a sweet upgrade with the lastest update, and i for one am flippin ecstatic about the new info and upgrades.   AS far as being a mana-slave i have no problem with casting my dot/debuffs, and then keepin my hlr's power up......fighting a grpx2 mob last night that was yellow to me, and we only had one group.......we had two healers, but i still transferred mana as soon as main hlr was down to 1/2 pwr.....i gto about 10%xp for the fight, and in no way will i complain about being my groups mana -[Removed for Content]......as for the warlock i grouped with, he was free to cast nukes, and of course there's group buffs.......two wizzies in a group dont stack grp buff, but a wizzie with a warlock does.......im happy with what soe has done since launch, and am lookin forward to the game increasing in stability and popularity.....(unless u keep knockin SOE)

 

Phenoum Argour

33 Erudite Wizard

Forged in Blood - Faydark server

[Admh]

bah! stop whining.. and go quit.. make another sorc and turn it into a warlock..

[VoRTeX]

I don't understand why you're giving the original poster a hard time. Wizards made it clear to SOE that sorcerors were wrongly designed. Obviously Wizards were right because SOE made some changes. Just because SOE made some changes however dosn't mean that everything is perfect. And just because a problem is identified and then attempted to be remedied dosn't mean that the original problem identifiers don't have a right to say well look, you fixed some parts but here is another aspect of the problem or here are some parts which are still broken. If you tell your car mechanic that there is a problem with your wheels and he does an alignment and fixes a proportion of it but dosnt do a balance, there is nothing wrong with saying, well hey how about a balance now aswell. If there is a disparity between warlock and wizard dmg, and it seems that the people who have considered this in depth on the forums have identified a disparity, then clearly that is not in keeping with SOE's wishes. Identifying this would in fact be in SOE's interest so that there dosnt become a huge disbalance of warlocks over wizards. Really they should be producing very similar DPS + or - 5% max would be appropriate on average. Greater differences should be immediately addressed. Never accept mediocrity. Expect things to be done right.

[Keitho]

Ok I work with Rumil lv 50 Wizard all da time. He has all these utilies while I have about 3 debuffs he has extremely more then I. Hes got 2 mana pump while I have my crappy one. And If I go nuke happy I DIE. There isnt any pro to having more damage to you guys. I get agro much faster unless *cough cough* someone uses there 3,000 + damage nuke thats only adept 1.

 

Wizards and warlocks have there own personal roles. Play them how SOE made them or just reroll to what YOU want.

Message Edited by Keithoth on 03-03-2005 06:02 PM

[AngelR]

I find this "either/or" attitude to be rather common, and somewhat exagerated.  "No one will want me as a wizard because warlocks are so much better."   Well... unless you have some obsessed warlock stalker who travels from zone to zone making sure he or she is always LFG at the same time you are, then you will always have a chance in a group.  If a group needs DPS, they need DPS.  There won't always be a warlock to compete with.  Then, add in the fact that most non-sorcerers don't read the sorcerer boards (I'd wager most EQ2 players don't read these boards at all) and it is very unlikely that they even know there is a power difference.  Most people just know that sorcerers blow crap up (they ALL saw the patch message that said "X spell is now doing 3 times as much damage, Y spell is doing 4 times as much...") and know that we make things dead faster.  Even if someone took a warlock over you, there will be another spot open soon, particularly with the transient nature of most EQ2 groups (I'm continually surprised by the squirrel-like attention span of the average EQ2 group).

 

And in the event all of the above fails (or if you do have said stalker), then make friends.  My regular group (I hesitate to call it a static, as it conjurs unwelcome FFXI images, but I did like the emphasis the player base of that game placed on consistent groups) loved it when I switched from a tank (we had two) to a sorcerer (we had none).  They didn't ostracize me because I didn't go for warlock.  They didn't care.  All I know is that they were sure happy I was along on that EL boatride where I doubled the overall DPS of the group and it was a walk in the park.

 

I admit that I have yet to experience the game past 26, but I can't think it changes much.  I've played the high- and end-games of other MMO's, and the one thing that is always the same, regardless of game mechanics, is the people who play them.  And that's really what we are talking about here.

 

Every time I find myself burnt out or not enjoying an MMO, it's because I realize I'm comparing myself to others.  And it shows in all these other comparison-based threads... they are never (OK, rarely) positive.  Just do what makes you happy.  There's always someone tougher, live with it.  In the end, it's the people behind the toon that determine success or failure.

 

 

[Admh]

---

Keithoth wrote:

Ok I work with Rumil lv 50 Wizard all da time. He has all these utilies while I have about 3 debuffs he has extremely more then I. Hes got 2 mana pump while I have my crappy one. And If I go nuke happy I DIE. There isnt any pro to having more damage to you guys. I get agro much faster unless *cough cough* someone uses there 3,000 + damage nuke thats only adept 1.

 

Wizards and warlocks have there own personal roles. Play them how SOE made them or just reroll to what YOU want.

Message Edited by Keithoth on 03-03-2005 06:02 PM

---

YUP! I work with this monkey head right here ALL the time whether it's xp groups or raids. We both complement each other. I debuff so he could nuke better.. he does the same for me. I mana dump more than he does on raids, but without this warlock's debuffs i'm also a sitting duck. I snare the rooted mob while he fears it.. we both work well. I don't see the point of hating another class when both of you are on the same archetype anyway. I just want fixes of our spells and no nerfs.. Class envy really eats you up.. Instead of having a grudge on a different class just cuz it has better nukes doesn't necessarily mean you're [Removed for Content]. Try working together, you'll see that both of you combined can actually topple down a mob more efficently than a whole group combined.

Wizard + Warlock = kick [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] team :smileytongue:

 

PS.. DAMMIT hit 50 already u slacker!! :smileymad:

Message Edited by Admhel on 03-03-2005 11:24 PM

[Scrubbl]

I'm a lvl 45 wizard, and I've yet to ever find a tank that can hold aggro when I drop the hammer. I mean whats the point crying about warlocks? It's not like they can actually do all that much more dps then us wizards before they get aggro and die a fabulous death. Only thing that makes warlocks way better then us is there uber AOE, which is nerfed next big patch.

So let me get this straight, people are [Removed for Content] that warlocks can get aggro and die 2 seconds faster then their wizard counterparts? So people want to be able to die faster then a warlock? I'm confused.

 

[Admh]

---

Scrubbles wrote:

I'm a lvl 45 wizard, and I've yet to ever find a tank that can hold aggro when I drop the hammer. I mean whats the point crying about warlocks? It's not like they can actually do all that much more dps then us wizards before they get aggro and die a fabulous death. Only thing that makes warlocks way better then us is there uber AOE, which is nerfed next big patch.

So let me get this straight, people are [Removed for Content] that warlocks can get aggro and die 2 seconds faster then their wizard counterparts? So people want to be able to die faster then a warlock? I'm confused.

 

---

Obviously you haven't grouped with a warlock yet.. They can get aggro as fast as I can, and that's with out devastation.  In addition, I *kinda* envy them because their spells are actually worth it, unlike ours. Don't say anything crap about them, cuz I would like to use 60mana on my 2000+ nuke, and I would also like to have a root that has a fear effect for xx amount of time when it breaks. Wizard root have a snare effect.. it doesn't help me in any situation, because i want the mob off me! if it's pounding on me, I can't cast a spell. I get stunned. If it's feared you have other chances to root it again, fear it or just [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] plain nuke it.

[spyderopt]

"what happenes if they boost us up but somehow slightly go higher than warlock dps, more whining."Wizards are considering behind Warlock starting at level 37.Case in point I seen a few days ago:Constants----------Me: Level 37 (almost 3 Wizard, Using at that time Adept 1 Ball of Flames/FireWarlock: Level 37 (unknown), when asked stated they were using Adept 1 nukes Upon inspecting his stats, seen my INT was higher by around 10-15pts and other stats were about the same.Mob: Both were attacking same mobs on assist ranging from Lamias, Scarecrows, and wolves in RV (though I have grouped with 1-2 level higher Warlocks in Feerrott and seen similar results though I'm not using them in this comparison to keep it more even, but the spread was even further spread by alot)Casting Times: Casting at roughly the same speed (on the big nukes which we were both almost solely using)CASTING TYPE IN QUESTION: Single DD NukesVariables---------I was doing with Ball of Fire and Ball of Flames consistantly around 300-400 damage less per SINGLE nuke, in addition seemed to be burning power at a far greater rate while casting at the same speed for less damage on this single nukes.The damage I was doing was approximatly in the 600 range, yet I seen this warlock dropping 800-1000 point bombs extremely often, non-HO'd. I'd love to see a wizard that was level 37 using Adept 1s nuking a scarecrow/lamia [level 39-40 mobs] for over 1000 dmg non-HO. Now before there is a rant "use adept 3s", the Warlock was using Adept 1s as well and his spread would be equally higher at Adept 3s of his type.* Note I left DoTs out of this because this is not a Wizard's "strong" point in terms of being a high DPS char, the DoTs/AE is where the Warlocks shine/should shine to make their -overall- higher. IE: Higher level mobs with more HP a Warlock would pull way ahead in damage done for the fight than the Wizard, in a lower level mob the spread is closer because DoTs/AEs (AE especially in cases of non linked mobs) don't have time to "tick" enough to gain the DPS advantage as much so.Issues------1. A Wizard can be out SINGLE nuked by a comparible Warlock atleast in the range of 37-40, this is not counting a level 50 ability, a class should not be defined by 1 spell they get at the final level of the game rather their role they play in a group. If a Wizard gets the highest single DD nuke (ice comet) then their roles are heavy nukers, then ponder this, how is it then so easily out damaged on single nukes atleast 37 onwards to 50? Am I missing something maybe we get soon to make us less of a "group filler" that a warlock can do better than us? [again of course Warlocks should be higher DPS, but it should not come because they do everything Wizard does only better, it should come from AE/DoTS/Nukes/ETC, Wizards are atleast from my understanding getting their DPS (though lower than warlocks) more or less via their nukes].2. Wizards solo ability is pathetic at best for XPing. Been watching my brother solo from level 38-40 at times playing his Warlock, he can solo yellows without much worry. Of this level, a Wizard with no fear and subpar nukes has to work his tail off. Immolation is possibly the only saving grace for solo to practical otherwise risk > reward = not remotely worth the time spent in comparison. There are some cases where a Wizard can kill yellows and oranges at those levels sure, but sometime watch other classes how they can solo yellows [hell whites for that matter] and let me know if you still feel it's equal. Perhaps a new stun or longer stun duration would help Wizards in this area some to make up for lesser damage they get more time to kill with.3. Power consumption. Aside from converting HP into Power, it seems that for those lower damage nukes at the same speed, we burn power faster. Does Warlocks have some sort of Power Drain that takes from mobs and gives to them without sacrificing hitpoints? Find myself converting down to 1/2 health and healers though I tell them I'm just converting heal me in case I do agro by chance. I'd be out of my mind solo to convert hitpoints to power trying to solo if I'm low on power. Wizard PROs that they bring most group?---------------------------------------1. Evac - This can be done by several classes and does not rely solely on a wizard, though a wizard can do this if there is somebody else who can evac it nearly nullifies the wiz advantage [though multiple people with evac is nice don't get me wrong].2. Power Transfer - This is nice, however I'd be willing to bet than if you're spending your time power transferring the fight likely is not going too well and evac would be served better or you'd be able to by then drill into the mob and just finish it off with your nukes. On raid mobs I can see it as a help, be nice if they amount of power transferred were increased atleast to make it more pronounced perhaps.** This is not a cry for a nerf, this is food for thought that we are out single nuked (up to 50), out AE'd, out DoTTed, can't mana drain, can't fear. I would trade evac in a second to do something in a group than be outright replaced by somebody who does everything entirely better. This is not a question of DPS, Warlocks should be able to beat Wizards BASED ON duration of a fight, NOT based on hitting harder in every aspect. Raise Wizards to where they belong, the damage increase was nice, but it looks stupid when you're in a group obviously being out nuked when you're supposed to be a heavy nuker by an equal level of another class. What exactly is the role of a Wizard again? I was under the misunderstanding we were the heaviest nukers, not the highest DPS, in this case it seems like we're neither. It's easy for Warlocks to come here and cry foul when they're doing another classes' job then some, what they fail to realize it nobody is asking for them to be nerfed, a Wizard needs to be boosted again to where they belong not with more bandaids [if you're well below 40/mid 30s, you probably do not see this huge difference in nuke output].** Discussing Class Roles: Could a Dev describe how a wizard falls into the "nuke" line for casters? Are we supposed to have the highest nukes and overall lowerest DPS due to lower DoTs/AEs? If this is the case how is our singles often being out damaged. If we're meant to not be highest nukers [even if the recharge were raised but damage/castable stuns were increased] it would feel alittle more wizardly. Is it by design we're beaten on DPS because another class does -everything- better DPS wise [getting their DPS by means of having higher damage across the board rather than duration of a fight via AE/DoTs/medium nukes].** Please post observations and keep things civil, it stinks when you feel out right replaceable by a class that does everything you can but better [by a good margin]. I'm looking at why is this happening, how to fix it, and for how long does it occur until. Atleast at level 50 Wizards are kings of NUKES, I don't care about DPS, I just wanted to have the highest single DD nukes in the game even if the recast were slower =/ Trying to have a conversation in terms of "what do we bring in terms of our damage versus any sort of class description/perception" that another mage could not so we know how we are supposed to fit. I get alot of people surprised by my damage asking if I have shards all over when I'm grouped with Warlocks due to my single nukes being consistantly lower. Maybe if other classes read this forum they would realize Wizards apparently according to SOE are not meant to have the highest nukes and it would make our role of power-xferring easier when people complain we're not nuking at end of fights and xferring power to healers (which they may not realize we're trying to do, or knowledable that the role of a wizard would be wider than nukes alone).No grudges or hard feelings towards Warlocks here, I'm self at fault for believing when I rolled a wizard my nukes were meant to be the highest DMG but in the end would do less damage throughout a fight than others. More along the lines of when a mob was about dead, I could drop that bomb and finish it off if I scrounged alittle power.

[Megloman]

A lot of very good points there Spyder, I also wish that I'd know before making the choice that being a mana battery is the class defining ability that Wizards are supposed to have, having the same assumptions as yourself that Wizards were more burst DPS orientated and Warlocks more sustained, each being better than the other in certain situations, but generally on par in any group or soloing.

 

As has been mentioned, in groups the difference is not too apparent due to agro control of the tank, but as the taunts start getting upgraded to Master levels over time this disparity will increase. Soloing is where the differences really show themselves, but the greater problem there is that the wizard roots have some bugs to them and really need to be fixed (especially warping mobs with roots not getting resisted and no dmg being applied but not holding anyway). Long stun cast times also increase this problem, especially with our paper armour.

 

It would be nice if some Warlocks asked for our DD levels to be brought more in line with there's, rather than saying "live with it", which TBH doesn't seem to be a very fair and balanced attitude to have.

[Sokolov]

As a warlock, I cannot compete against a good wizard against a grouped encounter.  At level 33, I have seen Wizards go up to nearly 200 DPS on a grouped encounter, whereas I typically average 100-140 on the same encounters. 

 

Generally, I don't see much DPS difference between myself and a wizard, other than the increase that I know can be attributed to the advantage I have in having Adept 3s.

 

As for utility, both classes have power transfer abilities.  I personally find my class choice to be more useful in non-DPS areas on a fight-to-fight basis than a wizard.  Fear works like mez.  I have stat debuffs but don't have evac.

 

All in all, I just think Warlock sounds cooler.

[spyderopt]

"At level 33, I have seen Wizards go up to nearly 200 DPS on a grouped encounter, whereas I typically average 100-140 on the same encounters."

At level 37 Warlocks will smoke you with their nukes they get. In addition to an ability to solo far easier. This variance in single nukes will continue to spread. I have seen 42 Warlocks dropping 1500 point bombs on level 39-40 mobs, and a Level 37 warlock using equal adepts dropping over 1000 point bombs as fast as I can drop 600 point bombs (not counting AE/DoTs/fear/etc).

Again a solo Wizard solo if they wanted (on the solo topic) would have to convert hit points to power which is nuts or generally self-stun to regain power which isnt pretty, while a warlock could fear and buy themselves time to convert power or retry to root. As a wizard you usually have 1 chance to root after root breaks maybe 2 if you're lucky. Now you need to distance your self from a mob, it'll either warp on top of you or you'll burn your power sprinting. One of two things should happen, longer or more reliable crowd control in terms of root or stun, higher damage, or other which I cannot forsee in order to bring wizards up to par in all fairness.

"Generally, I don't see much DPS difference between myself and a wizard, other than the increase that I know can be attributed to the advantage I have in having Adept 3s"

Get back to me at 37 when you're being out gunned severly. (Don't take that as an aggressive stance) It's just that at 37 when you get your new nuke, it is embarrasingly bad compared to the warlock nuke. Your main source of damage is nukes, if you throw in AE and DoTs you'll be beat on those fronts as well.

Edit - Just noticed you're a warlock, but points are all the same anyways. You're going to turn into a nuking god soon aside from end DPS, enjoy

Message Edited by spyderoptik on 03-04-2005 07:42 AM

[Sokolov]

I already am, Spyder! =D

 

Altho really, unless I am with a tank at least 3 or 4 levels above me that taunts consistently, I can't do my potential damage as it is anyway.

[Darkfirestri]

I like being a wizard. After I got over 25, I got a lot more group invites at least. Just wish I could solo more, but I get resisted all the time! Got killed by a double arrow gray the other day. Quite embarrassing when it kept resisting me even though I was wicked higher than it, however I've heard this issue is being addressed.

 

All in all, I can say this: If you like to put the hurt on monsters and almost always get the kill shot, be a wizard. Just remember that if you get hit more than three of four times you're dead.

 

I would like to see an addition to spell descriptions however that state if they are "stackable" with other spells of the same type. Such as if Flametonge and Burning Radiance will work together or if one will supercede and 'knock out' the other. Ya feel me? Information is the key.

[Fendaria]

---

Darkfirestrike wrote:

All in all, I can say this: If you like to put the hurt on monsters and almost always get the kill shot, be a wizard.

---

Or, if you like putting even more hurt on the mobs with bigger numbers* for less mana, be a Warlock.* - up until lv 50 when wizards get Ice Comet.Fendaria

Message Edited by Fendaria on 03-04-2005 12:00 PM

[suroktheslayer5]

I really wish people would stop whining. Getting [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] envy over warlocks dps is just pain stupid. So what if we are #2 in dps, someone has to be #1 and if it’s our buddy the warlock then so be it. Feel cheated that you picked wizard to be the king of dps but have to settle for #2, aww poor baby. Go roll up a warlock then, sheesh, and stop whining. I personally like the fact I can do more than just NUKE NUKE NUKE. Groups count on me to feed power and have evac. I can’t count how many times I’ve single handily carried a raid due to my ability to feed power and still did the lions share of damage! When you are the reason a 20 person raid was successful, that’s a good feeling. The ability to feed power is so useful, great for raids, adds, pops or any long battles. What does the warlock have? Oh yeah more argo.People saying we can’t solo? C’mon, get serious. When I can solo ^^ blue mobs at lv 41 plus somehow this means I can’t solo (ring of cold anyone?)? I was soloing orange and red mobs in my 20’s-30’s BEFORE the wizzy upgrade. Sometimes I think people just want a “I WIN” button they can hit. I for one like a challenge and developing new strategies. My favorite times playing is when I’m not a traditional group, then you are force to think up new ways to use your spells. Wizzys have more at their disposal than warlocks for developing new strategies. So if you want to whip out your dps dong and feel like a big man then go warlock. If you want to use your brain a bit more and be more useful over all then go wizzy.Surok 44 Wizard CrushboneHeritage officer

[Geldin]

I have nuked for over 2k at lvl 46 with immolation adept 3. I have no problem with the amount of damage that I do now. I will have ice comet adept 3 when I get to 50 and I bet it will out dmg a warlock.

[spyderopt]

Let's break this down into little bite sized nuggets of useful information that even your intellectual capacity can comprehend:

"I really wish people would stop whining"

Simply brilliant. So far you have amazed us all with your useful information and knowledge you bring to this thread. I deeply appreciate your wisdom on the matter, really.

"Getting [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] envy over warlocks dps is just pain stupid."

In terms that you or a monkey could understand, DPS is a vague term. It is done by different methods.

Let me force alittle bit of logic down you because apparently you require information spoonfed to you due to our lack of comprehension of problems at hand which either lead me to lack of useful information in this thread by you or you simply do not understand how your class works or have not seen how others work yet into the 40s. As an officer, you of all people should have a clue to facts before ranting in random directions.

DPS is done by various methods (given that I have to give you EQ2 Classes/Damage 101):

1. **DoTs** - Ticks damage over a mob over a given time
1A. Single Targle DoTs - Ticks a single mob, a warlock may have a better dot than a wizard by say 10 points per tick over this duration on a single mob the difference is not much (using generic numbers to show a point)
1B. Linked/Multiple Mobs effected by DoTs - Ticks multiple mobs at say a rate of 10 points of damage more, across 5 mobs there is a difference of 50 damage more a round of which throughout a duration of encounter could add up by a large sum.
1C. Warlocks > Wizards (as it should be)

2.**AE Nukes** - Effects multiple mobs in an encounter by a single cast, single hit damage spell
2A. As seen so far [without great testing on this area], Warlocks do more AE nuke damage than Wizards (possibly as they should to make their encounter damage at end higher)

3. **Single Target Nukes** - Effects a single targeted mob by a single cast, single hit damage spell
3A. Through much testing (see above post with detail) Warlocks out single nuke Wizards

"High" DPS Damage casters:

Warlocks
--------
Highest Single DD Nukes
Highest AE Nukes
Highest AE DoTS
Fear

Wizards
-------
Evac
Mana Battery
Get Highest DD nuke in game Ice Comet, which does not fall into line with having not that
highest DD nukes in game. Maybe the devs are confused as to class role perhaps.

The DPS a warlock does is because he does all damage a wizard does, but better not because multi DoTs
in addition to using AE nukes, and single nukes, there is more means available to hit that DPS whereas the wizard will be behind in any situation atleast pre-50 and post 37 regardless.

** There is a misleading amount of information when people say "DPS". A Warlock might/should be better than a Wizard in DPS but a Wizard should hit harder with their pure nukes [even if timer were increased] to more fall in line with what they really should be.. the heavy nuker. This would still give warlocks their DPS edge and still make wizards have the highest DDs.


"So what if we are #2 in dps, someone has to be #1 and if it’s our buddy the warlock then so be it. Feel cheated that you picked wizard to be the king of dps but have to settle for #2, aww poor baby. Go roll up a warlock then, sheesh, and stop whining"

Sit down son before you go some place you'd be sorry you went. You have the mental capacity of a chimp, this is where David loses to Goliath. Go take a deep breath and come back to me when you decide to post something useful, in which case I extremely doubt you've done much useful RL either showing your random spouting of useless nonsense.

"When you are the reason a 20 person raid was successful, that’s a good feeling. The ability to feed power is so useful, great for raids, adds, pops or any long battles. What does the warlock have? Oh yeah more argo"

You're plainly dillusional as well apparently.

1. They get more agro because they arent watching what they are doing and peeling off a tank.
2. They are higher damage than they should be using say adept 1 nukes while maybe a tank would have an adept 1 taun, the warlock (and possibly some other classes) builds "hate" faster than the tank can and hence peels it off him. So in this case the tank's taunts need to be raised, or the "effeciency" of adept 1s for some others may need to be addressed and would be more in line with possibly an adept 3 to master 1 range other than an initial entry level into Adepts.
3. The amount of power you're tranferring is nice, however the mob could have been dead in majority of the cases had they just replaced you with a warlock who would be doing more damage (by a good amount). In cases of power actually being transferred fast enough, you would nearly be spending most of your time power xferring than nuking and with that case it would almost be better to have another healer or another higher dps char in any case than give one person a small amount. [on a side note, it is almost possible a character with group haste is higher DPS than any single other char due to the compounding effects, but this is totally unrelated but talking about class effectiveness, spending all your time xferring power is silly if it gets to that point]

You're starting to bore me a bit with your lackluster show of anything concrete in terms of how a Wizard is fine damage wise. Instead you would rather be a [Removed for Content] and accept it by making "happy" feelings about it.

"People saying we can’t solo? C’mon, get serious. When I can solo ^^ blue mobs at lv 41 plus somehow this means I can’t solo (ring of cold anyone?)? I was soloing orange and red mobs in my 20’s-30’s BEFORE the wizzy upgrade"

I can solo Red ^^^ group mobs, in fact I killed Vox myself last night. Just stop now before you embarass yourself further by claiming how you solo ^^ blue mobs as if this is how you xp. People who want to solo want to grind out xp when there's nothing else going on and which almost the entire Wizard population agrees there is something funky with the way things are, CLEARLY -YOU- are RIGHT and EVERYBODY ELSE is WRONG.

"Sometimes I think people just want a “I WIN” button they can hit. I for one like a challenge"

You picked the perfect class. A challenged player for a challenged class. Sounds like a good combination.

"Wizzys have more at their disposal than warlocks for developing new strategies."

Warlocks do not have to is the point, thanks. It's not a cry for a nerf, it's a request to look into roots/stuns/damage to find out how balanced 2 similar classes are in terms of group viability and solo viability.

"So if you want to whip out your dps dong and feel like a big man then go warlock"

You apparently continue to show the gaming community how a mental midget decides to share their logic. Wizards are not asking for more DPS, they are asking not to be out gunned on every front. I for one wouldnt mind higher damage nukes on slower timer which would leave the DPS the same but atleast when you want BIG hits you call in a wizard.

I can not remember the last time somebody invited me to a group and said "hey get that wizard he can xfer power" most of the times have been for the nukes, which a Warlock can do better.

Unless you show some stats or logic, I'm done with you, however I will be mildly amused by how upset you'll be when you read this and sit at your keyboard shaking with your heart beating all fast trying to reply with more nonsense not relevant to the thread.

Your father,
Spyderoptik

 

edit - BTW Thanks Geldin for posting the info regarding your nuke, good to hear the nukes get better eventually pre-50 =)

Message Edited by spyderoptik on 03-04-2005 01:14 PM

Message Edited by spyderoptik on 03-04-2005 01:25 PM

[UpurBloodst]

Wow...I post the facts about the issues and get 1-starred.  Maybe if we would stop running away from our problems and start to ackknowledging the cold hard facts, we might be able to get our class back where it belongs.

 

I hope everyone who one-starred me feels happy - You're just putting our class further and further back, and proving that you don't understand the issue at hand.

[styph]

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Nacoa wrote:
The point of playing a Wizard is we know what SOE says they want the class to be, and it fits in to what I want to play. Of course the class is not balanced perfectly yet. But it will end up being what I want it to be.

For example, I strongly suspect that Warlocks are going to get a DD nerf. That way wizards end up being the big nukers, and Warlocks end up being the big DoTers. Which will be more valuable in the end? The one that's got the best player at the keyboard.

Message Edited by Nacoa on 03-03-2005 12:34 PM

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/agree

 

 

[Nacoa]

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UpurBloodstab wrote:

Wow...I post the facts about the issues and get 1-starred.

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Actually, you posted an opinion pretending to be a question. There weren't any facts in your post.

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Maybe if we would stop running away from our problems and start to ackknowledging the cold hard facts, we might be able to get our class back where it belongs.

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Complaints like yours will just bring out the nerfbat. Eventually it'll be swung back at us.If you're so unhappy about being a Wizard, you should quit or reroll. What's the point of paying $15/mo to play a game that makes you unhappy?

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I hope everyone who one-starred me feels happy - You're just putting our class further and further back, and proving that you don't understand the issue at hand.

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Speaking as one of the people that 1-starred you, I did it because you were whining and failing to provide a solution to the problem.Your original post: "Whaaaaaa!! Warlocks do more damage than me!! That's not fair!!"This post: "Whaaa!! You guys didn't all agree with me!!! That's not fair!!"A post I wouldn't have 1-starred: "I think wizards should do more direct damage than warlocks because [give some logical reason]. Specifically, the devs should [something to buff wizards] and [something to weaken warlocks] and [give warlocks something else to make up for what you took away]."And no, 1-starring you did not bring me any joy. Thanks for your concern though.

[TheC]

I gave ya 5 stars bloodbath, didn't read any of your posts but I think you deserve 5 stars just cuz.

[RSZ]

He deserves this due to clueless nacoa crapping on his thread.