Lord Vyemm falls at yet another Pally's feet....

[txleathertx]

Ok...time for a little positive Pally news...lol. I finally got the chance I've been wanting... I got to /shout Inc. Lord Vyemm and his bad breath in 5 secs. My guild's guardian even came on his whizzie to give me aggro hell to do it...but Lord Vyemm fell at my feet, on my pull, first pull. The raid was very smooth...2 major wipes....but some how 2 mobs got pulled. I know a few others of you have done this and I'm sure you felt like bragging too. Pallys, we can MT a raid with the right setup...we just have to be given the chance. Are guardian's stronger....maybe, yea. Keep your winged helms up high dear Palllys our day will come. <div></div>

[Heeehahaha]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> txleathertx wrote:<BR>Ok...time for a little positive Pally news...lol. I finally got the chance I've been wanting... I got to /shout Inc. Lord Vyemm and his bad breath in 5 secs. My guild's guardian even came on his whizzie to give me aggro hell to do it...but Lord Vyemm fell at my feet, on my pull, first pull. The raid was very smooth...2 major wipes....but some how 2 mobs got pulled. I know a few others of you have done this and I'm sure you felt like bragging too. <STRONG><U>Pallys, we can MT an extremely easy raid</U></STRONG> with the right setup...we just have to be given the chance. Are guardian's stronger....maybe, yea. Keep your winged helms up high dear Palllys our day will come.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Fixed.

[electricninjasex]

<div></div>Before EoF was released, we were able to use a Paladin on almost anything in a pinch.As in all things, the trick is with people not sucking.<div></div><p>Message Edited by electricninjasex on <span class=date_text>01-26-2007</span> <span class=time_text>06:16 AM</span>

[Arraza]

<P>Tanking and pwning Vyemm (and labs) for the first time is indeed an accomplishment, don't let anyone bring you down.  I was very proud the first time I did that as well.</P> <P>Grats!</P>

[Crib92]

<DIV>Gratz on your accomplishment.  Nobody can take that away from you.  Now take out Lyceum.  If you can do Labs you can do this.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Wallzak]

<P>The thing that I find is Paly's and Guard's tank differently, if people know how to allow and support a paly tanking, then we're good.  The problem is in the switch from have a Guard up front to having a paly, often it takes some time for people to adjust, wipes occur and people get impatient saying, "Paly's can't tank, bring back the Guard" :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P>That as a side note, congratz!!  We did labs last night, have two very well raid equipped guards and we wiped on the first pull (the split didn't happen right).</P>

[Magnis]

well can anyone give any deatails the differences between them? Or how shoud a raid act or expect from us, so everything can go as smooth as possible.

[Wallzak]

<DIV>I guess I should qualify my statement.  I was speaking from grouping experience, not raiding experience... it should apply though.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is what I have found.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If I can pull a mob with decree, then I'm fine.  Decree, group taunt, other aoe's for the win then sit back and have a drink.  If I have to body pull (which is a lot of EOF) then I have a harder time maintaining agro.  The group needs to learn to take it slower until I get my aoes off.  If I amend a warlock, the group agro is fine, but I lose individual agro cause the warlock casts slow.  If I amend the assissin, then I can lose individual agro to the monk, wizzie etc.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hear from healers we heal differently.  There are other threads about that.  We do have the ability to heal ourselves, which is good, the problem is we lose our hate gaining ability while we are casting, if we get interrupted then it can add up to several seconds.  I would rather have our heal cast times shorted and have the timer set longer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My only experience with raid tanking was in Lycenium (can't remember how it's spelled).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I had just joined the guild, and got two fabled pieces that night, the rest was legendary.  They thought it would be fun to use me on the pull with all the mob standing on the stairs... it didn't go well and I haven't been called forward since then... sigh...</DIV>

[Arraza]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sanser wrote:<BR> well can anyone give any deatails the differences between them? Or how shoud a raid act or expect from us, so everything can go as smooth as possible.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I think the main difference between a guard and a pally is a) the ability to absord damage for short durations and b) the ability to generate hate themselves, rather than relying on another party member to do it for them.</P> <P>This makes guards ideal for pulling named mobs pre-debuff because they can reduce that massive damage on the pull.  They also don't have to worry about their amends target going afk on them, or getting hit with an ae or something else similar.</P> <P>I guess the 3rd thing really is that pallys just have a general stigmata about them in a way that most people feel that we are inferior to guards and zerkers as tanks.  For whatever the reason, if you were to ask anybody whos the best tank, I guarantee it will be a guard or a zerker and I also guarantee that most people can't explain why, they just "know".  Personally I think we are on par with zerkers especially with the mit curve now... but people still prefer them to pallys.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Rast]

<P>I think alot of that comes from that we do function different than the warrior classes.  And it is often easier to use what you are familiar with than to use something that acts foriegn to you.  Like many things, it is as important to understand your group/raids abilities as it is your own.</P> <P>Take for example furies, I tank differently when I have a fury as a healer than when I have a templar.  With a templar, I'm less likely to use my own heals since the reactives work exceedingly well on me, but with a fury, I have to compensate for the HoTs with my own heals and wards to give them time to do their magic.  I've not groupped much with mystics, so I can't comment much on them (yet, have one in my guild that I'm going to spend some time with, just a shame she also has the highest templar too <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )</P> <P>In groups, most of the time I see issues is on the initial pull.  IF I survive it, the encounter will normally go well, if I don't...  well it isn't pretty <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[hawsecav19d]

<DIV>Grats on bringing down Lord Vyemm keep up the good work.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Equal skilled equal geared Gaurdians got us Pallies edged cause of few abilites they got that we dont. But most time I have found skill lvs never close pallies have had to work alot harder to get the same spot on the raid as a gaurdian. Everytime we do the good we open up a few more peoples eyes so grats.</DIV>

[boosted]

How about warding yourself on pull?  That absorbs some damage, LoH is great in a bind.  Something we can do that guards can't, keep ourselves alive.  I went down the line for arch heal in EoF and working on the shield increase now, and the extra heal is very nice along with the cast time reductions/mana reduction.  Sigil of Heroism works great on those tough encounters also. 

[txleathertx]

First of all Valoron....<span>:smileytongue:</span>...might be an easy raid but ya know what...it's a hurdle that has to be crossed in order to go farther. <blockquote><hr>Sanser wrote:<div></div>well can anyone give any deatails the differences between them? Or how shoud a raid act or expect from us, so everything can go as smooth as possible.<hr></blockquote>The differences and how I see it.... Major difference is the pull...a non-debuffed mob hits HARD...guardians are able to handle this non-debuffed hit due to their extra mit from their temp buffs....but with a tamplar in group putting his reactives on ya it's not so bad. Another difference is gaining hate...with a guardian, most fighter classes can go ahead and start in on any mob...with a pally at the front you have to give me a touch longer to gain...the only two people that should be hitting the mob are the pally and the person he has amends on...in my case it was an assassin...but then again it's a blessing in return to have to wait...debuffs seemed to stack alot quicker...I didn't have to yell out "give me 3 rows" at any point and time.  Getting aggro is not a problem, but keeping it...best bet is to have someone like a coercer in group...which we did...they have a hate gain spell plus mana regen. But I did find that we might not have reinforcement like a guardian does...but consecrate worked wonders on most the mobs.  Now I admit I sneaked a peak at the heal parse and compared the numbers...[I cannot control my vocabulary] shame I didn't save all the numbers I had...but...poor healers...but then again I found myself on the heal parse as well. I may not have played it 100% correctly and let the healers do all the healing...but on pull after I settled in...I did ward myself...heal myself...and taunted my butt off...I probably didn't use as many spells as I normally would if I wasn't tanking...Holy Circle and Refusal of Conviction just take too long to cast. I didn't see too many interuptions in my heals and wards like I expected...seemed to go off without a hitch. Anyways, Thanks all...I had a blast doing it...can't wait to do that again, but I am looking forward to my new sword Vyemm had for me and being buffed offensive, hitting the dps and heal parse, rezzing a few folks here and there and letting our guard take the face slaps...mindless raiding....lol <div></div>

[BoneSmasher]

<DIV>Grats on taking down Lord Vyemm.  He is tuff for anybody to tank, no matter what your tank class is.  That is quite an accomplishment. Kudos.</DIV>