Battle Leadership AA's

[Jeffou]

<DIV>Hello,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I just respec'ed to get the Wis line, up to 4/4/8 and boost DPS for me and group buddies.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But as the parses went, i did not see a significant amelioration.</DIV> <DIV>Running 450 to 480 average before, and about same, little more may be, after ...</DIV> <DIV>(Solo buffed, and solo / broker geared, with Velium Greatsword)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was STR 4/5/6, STA 4/4/4/2, INT 4/4/6/6 went to STR 4/5/8, WIS 4/4/8, INT 4/4/8.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Do u guys have noticed a real improvement for taking Battle Leadership, especially at maxed lvl ?</DIV> <DIV>Makes a 34 all stats increase, should be noticeable, isnt it ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Or my parses were a bit "light" and i should reparse longer. </DIV> <DIV>Or the crits that disapeared with STA line cost a lot to my DPS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Anariale]

It depends on what youre fighting.  I notice a reasonable increase in to-hit rates in raids, but in single-group encounters, its not noticable at all.

[Karlen]

It helps you hit more often so is only effective against mobs that you would otherwise miss regularly.<div></div>

[Jeffou]

<P>Eh k, il like that explanation, as ive been parsing on lvl 60 / 61.</P> <P>thx for tip<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P>

[kellan123]

That's why it works in raids better; usually mobs are 70+.I was STR/INT and would parse 1500 on the easy AE encounters if I played my cards right. (I'd usually die as well)However, I respec'd to be a better tank, even though I will never MT for my raid. With the new Epic questline on the horizon, I'll be MTing for quest groups.Also, I made a swashbuckler and my paltry and situational DPS that I was temporarily high on has somehow become....lackluster. I'm enjoying my swash more than my pal, but there's probably a lot of reasons for that. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> So I went back to a defensive build, to contrast.<div></div>

[Kaleyen]

I respec'd last night before our raid, went...STA 4-4-4-5, INT 4-4-4-4 and WIS 4-4-8 and I'm parsing higher because of battle leadership...it's awesome, I love it. <div></div>

[MeridianR]

<div><blockquote><hr>Kaleyen wrote:I respec'd last night before our raid, went...STA 4-4-4-5, INT 4-4-4-4 and WIS 4-4-8 and I'm parsing higher because of battle leadership...it's awesome, I love it. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Unless you were fighting Orange cons I can't see how this would make you parse higher.....my guess is you might have had a better group <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Seriously I can't see wasting 16 points in this line <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> when the returns just don't justify it.  You would do more dps with max melee crits and max spell crits.</div>

[RaistNA]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MeridianR wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kaleyen wrote:<BR>I respec'd last night before our raid, went...STA 4-4-4-5, INT 4-4-4-4 and WIS 4-4-8 and I'm parsing higher because of battle leadership...it's awesome, I love it.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Unless you were fighting Orange cons I can't see how this would make you parse higher.....my guess is you might have had a better group <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR>Seriously I can't see wasting 16 points in this line <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> when the returns just don't justify it.  You would do more dps with max melee crits and max spell crits.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>i <3 u phov<BR>

[MeridianR]

<div><blockquote><hr>RaistNA wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> MeridianR wrote: <div> <blockquote> <hr> Kaleyen wrote:I respec'd last night before our raid, went...STA 4-4-4-5, INT 4-4-4-4 and WIS 4-4-8 and I'm parsing higher because of battle leadership...it's awesome, I love it. <div></div> <hr> </blockquote>Unless you were fighting Orange cons I can't see how this would make you parse higher.....my guess is you might have had a better group <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Seriously I can't see wasting 16 points in this line <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> when the returns just don't justify it.  You would do more dps with max melee crits and max spell crits.</div> <hr> </blockquote>i <3 u phov<hr></blockquote>RAWR!</div>

[Kaleyen]

<blockquote><hr>MeridianR wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Kaleyen wrote:I respec'd last night before our raid, went...STA 4-4-4-5, INT 4-4-4-4 and WIS 4-4-8 and I'm parsing higher because of battle leadership...it's awesome, I love it. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Unless you were fighting Orange cons I can't see how this would make you parse higher.....my guess is you might have had a better group <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Seriously I can't see wasting 16 points in this line <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> when the returns just don't justify it.  You would do more dps with max melee crits and max spell crits.</div><hr></blockquote>Well we were fighting orange and yellow, and normal group setup for me (all mages but a druid and a troub).  And I did have max melee and max spell crits before I made the switch and my DPS was soso.  Before was getting...give or take 500-650ish zone wide when I went all out DPS, the battleleadership has pushed me above the 700 mark for zone wide.<div></div>

[Bladewind]

I went with 448 str/sta/int to try to maximize my dps.  The haste and melee crit bonuses help some, but the massive spell crit bonus makes the most impact by far.  The combination of having a high int (to increase base spell and proc damage) and 70% spell crit (which also effects procs) has increased my damage output nicely.  I'm going a very non-traditional route with my paladin since my main is a dedicated tank.  I'm also taking almost all dps AAs (maxxed out wraths line, smite evil, proc enhancers) in the eof line, and I am looking to see how far I can push the envelope choosing gear on the basis of how it will increase dps.

[Kaleyen]

See, I think that's where I was hurting when I max'd out my spell crits, is that my INT was so low that it really didn't help much.  Thanks for bringing that point up Bladewind. <div></div>

[Arraza]

Don't Wardens have a buff that add +30 to all abilities anyway?  If I'm tanking anything I usually have a warden in my group...

[MeridianR]

<div><blockquote><hr>Kaleyen wrote:<blockquote><hr>MeridianR wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Kaleyen wrote:I respec'd last night before our raid, went...STA 4-4-4-5, INT 4-4-4-4 and WIS 4-4-8 and I'm parsing higher because of battle leadership...it's awesome, I love it. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Unless you were fighting Orange cons I can't see how this would make you parse higher.....my guess is you might have had a better group <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Seriously I can't see wasting 16 points in this line <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> when the returns just don't justify it.  You would do more dps with max melee crits and max spell crits.</div><hr></blockquote>Well we were fighting orange and yellow, and normal group setup for me (all mages but a druid and a troub).  And I did have max melee and max spell crits before I made the switch and my DPS was soso.  Before was getting...give or take 500-650ish zone wide when I went all out DPS, the battleleadership has pushed me above the 700 mark for zone wide.<div></div><hr></blockquote>With a Fury and Troub you should be bursting a lot higher then 700 <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  ( Precision of the Maestro for the win!  We are one of the only classes that can benefit both from a Troub with PoM and a Dirge with CoB )  combined with a Furies Int buffs, and say any mages for procs....Man I am kinda getting hot and bothered at that group...lolThe absolute best (bar none, no doubt about it) group I was ever in was:-- Me-- Defiler-- Troub-- Dirge-- Swashie-- Assassin Sorry I got a little teary eyed thinking about that group <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Back to the Original response though, you would have to check ACT out and look at the differences in Swings to Misses both with and without BL to tell if it helped.  Personally I think you might just have had some better rolls when PoM was up <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[MeridianR]

<div><blockquote><hr>Wintermute218 wrote:<div></div>Don't Wardens have a buff that add +30 to all abilities anyway?  If I'm tanking anything I usually have a warden in my group...<hr></blockquote>Yes, BL is worthless if you have a Warden with you.</div>

[MeridianR]

Tank in offensive stance <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Seriously I am not lying here, there isn't much of a difference between Defensive and Offensive anymore with grouping, so you get the INT benefit.  Plus with Mages, and a Fury you in offensive stance you should be rocking with INT.<div></div>

[Kaleyen]

Well for raids I'm stuck in the squishy group...usually is... Me Troub Fury (sometimes...I'm usually left for group heals and another mage is added here) Wizzy Warlock Warlock My role is a lot different then other Paladin's on raids I'm afraid...meaning it changes from fight to fight (lotta swaping out gear here).  For example when we were running DT with 4 priests I was 3rd on the heal parse for that night cause I was healer mode (urgh).  I'm trying to ease into the OT/DPS role here but I think that my lack of INT is really starting to hinder my attempts. <div></div>

[Kaleyen]

<blockquote><hr>MeridianR wrote:Tank in offensive stance <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Seriously I am not lying here, there isn't much of a difference between Defensive and Offensive anymore with grouping, so you get the INT benefit.  Plus with Mages, and a Fury you in offensive stance you should be rocking with INT.<div></div><hr></blockquote>I'll have to try that, never have before.  Usualy in defensive stance for the resists boost.<div></div>

[Arraza]

I hit 506 INT yesterday self buffed... woot... RC, brimstone, HC all have a range of 900-1200. 

[Kaleyen]

<blockquote><hr>Wintermute218 wrote:<div></div>I hit 506 INT yesterday self buffed... woot... RC, brimstone, HC all have a range of 900-1200. <hr></blockquote>[I cannot control my vocabulary] now I'm jealous...I'm in the low 200s still.<div></div>

[Arraza]

<DIV>You lose some defense and some mit, but with the curves now its not so bad.  I typically tank in o-mode with hammer and shield until I start hitting yellow mobs, once I hit yellow mobs I tend to go D just because it helps the group move quicker.  I've tried tanking with my 2her in o mode, and thats pretty painful... gotta keep the healers happy... lol.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Arraza]

<DIV>Hehe... and STR is high 500s, like 575 or something in that range...</DIV>

[MeridianR]

In Offensive stance, with certain gear switching out I am over 650 str and 400 int.  Then there are Mastercrafted potions for INT that give another 66.<div></div>

[Anariale]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MeridianR wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kaleyen wrote:<BR>I respec'd last night before our raid, went...STA 4-4-4-5, INT 4-4-4-4 and WIS 4-4-8 and I'm parsing higher because of battle leadership...it's awesome, I love it.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Unless you were fighting Orange cons I can't see how this would make you parse higher.....my guess is you might have had a better group <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR>Seriously I can't see wasting 16 points in this line <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> when the returns just don't justify it.  You would do more dps with max melee crits and max spell crits.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Even in offensive stance, without BL, youre only going to have a ~90% to-hit rate on raids.  BL raises that to 95%.  5% better to-hit is ~5% more damage output.  Personally I think thats far better than 400 HP from putting points into the crap-tastic HP buff.  Its a tossup on heal crits though, but since its 5% to-hit for everyone in your group, plus lower power cost for all the healers... its worth it IMO.</P> <P>W</P><p>Message Edited by Anariale on <span class=date_text>01-23-2007</span> <span class=time_text>10:45 AM</span>

[Callim]

<DIV>I realize that as a SK, I have a bit more freedom with my AA's, since I have no need to go down to the crit heals...but I can say this, I wouldnt give up Battle Leadership AA's for anything.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am 448 int, wis, sta, at the moment personally, and being able to buff the groups skills by that much is invaluble, on raids, solo, or in groups.  Its nice to know that I can hit defensive mode in a pinch on a raid and still be able to hit the mobs, not to mention the help it lends to any other fighters in group, or those poor suicidal pullers who need to stay defensive more often then not, but can still hit the mobs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Usually on a raid I go offensive unless off tanking, and go 2 hander, don't underestimate int...was pulling around 650-700 dps the other night on single target mobs with 0 dps/haste mods, but 760 or so int or so.  Also not sure if anyone else has seen this, but there is a limit on mob debuffs which accounts for the largest dps gains on a raid.  Was critting my coil for 396 a tick last night, using master2 group taunt to debuff disease and it still hit for 396, so apparently there is some cap.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bottom line, Battle leadership rocks, it gives you, your groups, and your raids more options in levels, group makeups, and more dps.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[khufure]

I just don't see myself giving up my stamina HP and divine aura.  I am:STA:4/4/8/8/8INT:4/4/8/1To get 8 points in battle leadership I needWIS:4/4/8I can pull 4 points out of melee crits and 1 point out of heals.  Realistically I'd have to give up divine aura and some points out of +HP.  DA saves wipes.  As does HP...<div></div>

[Mgunner]

<P>I think BL is pretty overrated. In offensive stance, there isn't much benefit. In defensive stance, I have no problem holding agro without it and can care less about DPS. If anything, there are certain armor pieces and jewelry that can increase slash, crush, or piercing. Wardens increase skills, as do guardians if you have an extra in raid with you in the OT group.</P> <P>Having once had BL, it helped many times, but spell crit helps me everytime. So in the long run, I feel much better off with spell and heal crit.</P>

[Nevar]

Im not in the Sta line anymore. Im wis and int these days. BL rocks imo cant go wrong with hitting crap. MY grp likes it alot to which is why I keep it

[Bladewind]

<P>In offensive solo, I am running something like 480 str, 160 agi, 380 sta, 300 wis, 400 int.  I'm pretty happy with that ratio - gives nice amount of power and high bonuses to both damage types).  Part of the nice int comes from a few pieces of devout xego that I still wear (16 each on 4 pieces) - my toon is pretty young and I have not had a chance to replace it all yet.  The xego is horrid for tanking due to the low mit, but lends itself farily nicely to the offensive roll.  That said, I'm looking to replace it asap, and I am hoping to make up for the lost int via adornments and jewelry.  My jewelry is half melee half caster at the moment.  I figure i can look for more caster pieces and throw int adornments into the mix to try to keep my self buff int around 450 or so in offensive.  I rarely tank on this toon, but, when I do, I also try to stay offensive.  The extra dps really helps me hold aggro (since my taunts are all a feeble adept 1 <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />).  I have ad 3 amends, which lets me hold aggro pretty easily along with the damage I can put out.  One great item for increasing your int is the ring that the boss of OoB drops - called signet of darkness from light, i think.  It has 10 sta, 30 wis, 30 int, 4 resists in the 600 range, and a defensive proc that has a 5% chance to deal 950 damage to the attacker and heal you for 750 (with my 400 int) when you are hit.  I think it is a great all-around ring for a crusader.  The proc and wis give tanking benefits (proccing 1000 damage and 750 heal generates a nice bit of aggro aside from their obvious benefits), and the int gives a nice boost to spell damage.  Either flavor of crusader gets a nice power boost from it as well.</P> <P> </P> <P>edit - i've gone completely off topic in trying to answer some side questions - sorry</P><p>Message Edited by Bladewind on <span class=date_text>01-25-2007</span> <span class=time_text>03:13 PM</span>

[Kaleyen]

This has probably been mentioned before, but BL does stack.  I wouldn't have thought it would, so the SK and I are always in the add group now and it freaking rocks to have 2 BL's going. <div></div>

[Arraza]

<P><BR>Signet of Darkness from Light is a rocking piece... especially when you pull a group of 8-10 mobs, and you see it light up on 5 of em at once.  That ring procs alot, and with the crit spell chance i see it going off for 1000-1300 all the time, many times on multiple mobs in the encounter.</P> <P> </P>

[Kaleyen]

<blockquote><hr>Wintermute218 wrote:<div></div> <p>Signet of Darkness from Light is a rocking piece... especially when you pull a group of 8-10 mobs, and you see it light up on 5 of em at once.  That ring procs alot, and with the crit spell chance i see it going off for 1000-1300 all the time, many times on multiple mobs in the encounter. </p><hr></blockquote>So very true...best part of being in the add group, consecrate + sigil + AE taunt means that I'm the center of attention, with the ring procing like a mad man it's so sweet it brings a tear to my eye.<div></div>

[Arraza]

<P> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kaleyen wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wintermute218 wrote:<BR> <P><BR>Signet of Darkness from Light is a rocking piece... especially when you pull a group of 8-10 mobs, and you see it light up on 5 of em at once.  That ring procs alot, and with the crit spell chance i see it going off for 1000-1300 all the time, many times on multiple mobs in the encounter. </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>So very true...best part of being in the add group, consecrate + sigil + AE taunt means that I'm the center of attention, with the ring procing like a mad man it's so sweet it brings a tear to my eye.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Nice... I see it happen a lot when I pull 5-10 mobs for writs... </P>