Changing our Ward

[hawsecav19d]

<DIV>Bringing this idea from quick fix to new thread cause I want to try and keep this to just this issue.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I basing the idea of a %hp based ward on a 7000hp mastercrafted and legendary armor and jewelery lv 70 Pal. I know thats what most are running at that I have talked to in last few days. 12,000hps seems to be the good base for mostly Fabled lv 70 Paladin thats buffed to be raid tank.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think the ward we have needs to be changed to % of hps based ward to help us balance with the Guardians and Berserkers and even Shadowknights now as MT for raid. We can be main raid tank but its alot more effort on us and the rest of the raid to do it. I think this make us as good a option without stealing something from War book to get it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>15%hp wards for Adept 1 would give 7k hp Solo paladin a 1050hp ward. 18% at Adept 3 1260hp ward and 20% Master 1 would give 1400hp ward.</DIV> <DIV>15%hp wards for Adept 1 would give 12khp Raid  Paladin a 1800hp ward. 18% Adept 3  2160 hp ward and 20% Master 1 would give  2400hp ward.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For solo tank this would give us pretty much the same numbers we have now with our ward. For Raid tanks though this would be a big boost to our surviving spike damage that we curently have to concede because we dont have temp mit buffs like War classes or can steal it like the Shadowknights.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>First question I want everyone to ask themselves is do you think this would work and help us be better raid tanks? Second thing is how do we go about getting it tested on test server to see if it will make a diff or if it would be to powerfull?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I dont want to have a Guardians hand me down temporary mitigation style way of fighting I want a Paladin ability that lets us tank as well and I think this best idea I have heard so I spent the time asking around and crunching numbers to make this as fair as possible without stepping on any other tank classes toes.</DIV>

[Rast]

<P>The biggest problem I see in this is scaling it for lower level characters.  It might be well balanced for the lvl 70, but scaling that ability back to it's lvl 12 variant, is it balanced for them too?  I don't see how you can scale that one back to maintain any ability at the lower levels without either being able to decrease effectiveness once the spell goes grey or making the % Ward a new ability completely.</P> <P>I'm beginning to thing this should be a one time ability for us(like consecrate or decree), or at the very least a very late starting line (like the refusal of line) as it's true use is raiding and I'm leaning towards a one time skill gotten at 50 (for those pallies who want to raid the original end game material) because I honestly do not believe that the skill will scale well as a line.</P>

[ChopStix]

<P>seems to me it would almost have to scale since the mitigation is scaled now, and also on a percentage..</P> <P>i've thought all along our ward was to small against t7 content, i mean cmon, 1370 points of damage in labs is a joke.. and same goes for our damage output, compared to other fighter class's ours is the lowest of all now..</P>

[Mgunner]

<DIV>You know how many other healers want to have a better ward because the pally wards are almost just as good? This will never happen. It would be twice as good to what other healers have now. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Even solo, a few of us are nearing 9k hps. Raid buffed to 12k makes a 2400 ward that I can recast every 9 seconds. That's way to overpowering. </DIV>

[PolarBear77]

i personally would like to see something for us in the hero line in which is gives us a refreshing ward of some sort like the one int he Sorcerers aa's

[hawsecav19d]

<DIV>I dont think this is to powerfull when you consider how hard it is to get off during combat. If mobs hitting you 2-5 times in that 9 seconds your not going to get it off everytime you want but it will be noticable when you do get it off. This isnt to [Removed for Content] off healers this is to take something we got and make it raid usauble as a MT which we are severly lacking compared to the other tanks CA abilties that we have to use spells for.</DIV>

[Boli32]

In a group situation, the ward is useable and a very powerful tool to use, however that same useful tool which allows us to become on par with the warrior tanks becomes completely redundant in a raid situation.However I don't believe its the ward that is the problem, our shield attack and kick both complete complete with stuns/knockdowns which many paladins (including myself) who use them before they cast any heal/ward in a group or solo situation... in fact  any situation <i>but</i> a raid situation. Unfortunaly by having the ability to stun epics for 2.5s or so every time we use the combat arts is unreasonably powerful.The problem is not the wards themselves  - they add an additional health for the inital hit and a self ward (hate) on the pull is almost as good as a taunt with the added bonus of having virtualy more health (ask shamans how much they pull agro on a preward) - but the inability to use them.I would rather have an addition to the kick/shield attack something that could be used in both a group and a herioc sense... perhaps an insane boost to the focus skill, spell haste for a VERY short while (allowing our ward to be very quick casting) or just something  else that will allow us to actually USE the tools we have at our disposal.

[Mgunner]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> hawsecav19d wrote:<BR> <DIV>I dont think this is to powerfull when you consider how hard it is to get off during combat. If mobs hitting you 2-5 times in that 9 seconds your not going to get it off everytime you want but it will be noticable when you do get it off. This isnt to [Removed for Content] off healers this is to take something we got and make it raid usauble as a MT which we are severly lacking compared to the other tanks CA abilties that we have to use spells for.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>How overpowered would this be in normal groups, or even solo. When suggesting changes, you need to remember the balance of all three types of playstyles.</P> <P>Even for use with raids, the ward helps keep up the Guardian MT. Let's be honest, most raids use a guardian. Most paladins on a raid are not MT. At best, we handle adds on many occasions. I spam my ward all the time. Doesn't get interupted when your not taking hits.</P> <P>The actual ward amount will never, and should never change. What can change is how often it gets interrupted, or allow us to cast it on the run, ala combat arts.</P>

[Rast]

<P>Actually, the simplest solution would be to add a new ward that is self only (thus not to overpower) that stacks with our anyone ward.  Make both uninteruptable and make it so the recast is right about the same as the use.</P> <P>And you mention the very point we need this, not everyone here wants to play second fiddle to a bland guardian as a MT.  I rolled my Pally to be a MT not some underpowered healer.</P>

[OrcSlayer96]

<DIV>If you guys are talking about a self only ward have divine favor(level 58 cruddy death ward) redone to give you a ward.  Should be much easier to rework a existing spell than to change the whole scaling to number thing that wards have now and because it would be self only it wouldnt step on the toes of healers...<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Rast]

That would certainly work.

[Canel]

<P>the problem with warding while soloing is a)it chews your powder up fast with all your attacks going off (I have 4.8k pwr) and b) the mobs (least for me [maybe cause i solo named <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />]) chew up the wards, thus you have to try to expend pwr to bring down the mobs fast so they DONT kill your ward, cause even with raid armor, with the new revamp they usually hit alot</P> <P> </P> <P>Concering raiding while warding, shaman solo wards are considerably close to (even though more powerful) to the pally ward, but thats why they put up that ward, then put up the group ward, which is mainly used for the MT and that has several K protection, along with reactives which basically keeps the MT alive through attacks.</P>

[Bladewind]

Turning the ward and small heal into combat arts that cannot be interrupted would be an alternate route to increase their effectiveness without changing the numbers.  The issue I have when tanking in any situation is not my ward/heal being too small to matter but rather being constantly interrupted as I try to use them.  By the time the ward or the heal is cast, I usually have taken more damage than they conteract due to casting interrupts.  If I was able to be interrupted while using face of the mountain (self mit buff), tranquil calm(self ward vs magic damage), or tsunami (self avoidance buff) on my monk, I'd be an unhappy camper and far less successful as a tank.  Casting these protective abilities at the right time is what makes or breaks tough encounters.  Casting them 10 seconds too late due to interrupts makes for dead tanks and wipes.