Paladin, compaired to other classes? Opinions please.

[Gilthen]

Greetings.The highest character I have is a 32 paladin. I mostly play solo and have been having a blast upto this point. The only concern I have is higher levels... folks just keep telling me that Paladin DPS is horrable. I don't see that yet... but that may be my level.I usually solo with a two-handed sword, offensive stance, all my spells/combat arts are at Adept 1-3. I don't think fights take that long, I kind of thought my DPS was good... I was even taking agro from the Berzerker I duoed with. But, due to short play times I don't want to get stuck at the higher levels with a frustrating choice.So, a few questions if I may:- In the begining, I was debating three classes; Paladin, Berzerker, and Swashbuckler. Has anyone played these and can give me a comparison of them? Just ease of soloing, speed soloing, etc.- Paladin DPS... is it that bad? Have I just not reached high enough to notice? How much does a properly prepaired Paladin really do compaired to say, Berzerker? Swashbuckler? Is it something outragous? (ie: Swashbucklers do four times the damage of a Paladin!)I'd really like to hear from folks who have tried multiple classes. I'm one of those folks who gets very little time online so the, "Try them all to 30" really doesn't work for me.All advice, opinions, stories, points, comparisons, meathods... much appreciated. Thanks.<div></div>

[Rocksthemic]

 I have not played all 3 classes, but I will compare as best I can at high level's from my experiences grouping with these classes and as a raid leader for my guild. 1. ease of soloing - Any class can solo really in this game. There are designated solo mobs. HOWEVER out of all 3 I would say that soloing with the paladin is the easiest. With heals, wards, and lay on hands, we have great survivability in case things go wrong such as an extra roamer, bad pull, etc.  With these tools you can usually buy yourself enough time to run if need be, or outright survive things that some of those other listed classes might not. Swashbucklers at lvl 25 do get an evac spell, which can always take you to a safe place in zone, so if the fit hits the shan, they can generally live through it. Beserkers get superiour dps, and can kill solo mobs quicker than a paladin, but they have no healing ability nor an evac ability, so you pretty much win or lose and not much in between. 2. dps - Swashbucklers do generally provide MUCH higher dps than paladins, maybe not 4 times as much, but easily 3 times as much in a group or raid situation. The exception to this is if you get lots of things with intelligence. Int will improve your spell dmg, but usually you will still be behind beserkers and swashies no matter what, assuming equal gear and skill. If you are planning to mostly solo, you can do it with a paladin, but our dps (or lack therof) can make for some very long fights. In all honesty if you are planning on mostly soloing, I would go with a bruiser. They get great dps, and the ability to feign death makes it so you will survive most even fight even if things go wrong. In addition, they can even tank in groups should you ever desire to do that. <div></div>

[Rob89]

<DIV>Go ahead and try to kill a tripple up heroic if u can <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well at lvl 32 there isnt much to talk about.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But at lvl 70 there is some huge diffrence.. A paladin does VERY bad dps compared to the other 2 classes you mention.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Like this. My paladin is full fabled. fully mastered and over 500str and 500 int and can parse around 1000-2000 dps if im lucky.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With my swashy i had ad1 CA and some ad3, legendary armor and some treasured. I did 900-2200 dps. Says pretty much.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Zerkers does insane dps while tanking cuz of thier short term buffs.</DIV>

[beliker]

I have a up and coming Paladin and a 50 Zerker, and have noticed that their dps focus is the same. Against single target mobs neither really has anything to write home about, but when it becomes more the one mob, thats where both shine. Now ofcourse the berserker will have more dps, but at the same time he can't heal and ward himself, you have to make sacrafices somewhere.Swashbuckler will have way more dps then you, but thats because thats what he is supposed to do. Its like comparing which is better a Mystic or a Wizard based purely on DPS, there are more factors in it then that. If the question was which would you rather have in a group with no healer, a Paladin or a Swashbuckler. You really should group some, it makes live so much easier.<div></div>

[JarredDarque]

<DIV>I have played a Paladin, a Zerker geared as well as my pally, and while not a swashy, a brigand,  which are relatively close.   All classes are fun,  the swashy can solo faster than both,  the zerker can solo faster than the pally, the pally doesnt have to run from a fight...ever..just about.   I.e.  My pally sits tehre with 5 or 6 high 60s solo mobs at once,  the zerker can live with 2 or 3, and the swashy evaced a long time ago.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, without having much playtime, your ability to get into a group if you want one is kinda important, swashies are gonna have a better time finding groups than any tank class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All three classes  are fun, very active to play.   (I dont like casters, to boring imho)  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For ease of soloing BTW, on a Pally, look into using a sword and board, but stayin in offensive stance.  This will more than double your avoidance, improving survivability alot more.   This is also useful, since the quickest way to solo as a Pally, is to pull mult solo mobs and AOE them as much as possible.   My Pally pulls on the order of 5-6 mobs per fight and just AOEs the entire bunch.  Since most of our damage is spell based, the two hander doesnt make all that much of a differance in our DPS as you might think..except those really really long oop fights.</DIV>

[Umeil]

<P>I recon the 1st question here should be are you playing on a PvP server or a PvE server.</P> <P> </P> <P>PvP server dont touch the pally if you going solo they plain suck  solo PvP.</P> <P> </P> <P>PvE server realy just play the class you enjoy the most all have there ups and downs it just a matter finding them and working around them</P>

[OrcSlayer96]

<DIV>One thing i would add in the discussion that many paladins either ignore or assume all know, is when you are trying to level, you will level easier by targeting undead mobs in your level range.  Paladins have several of their combat arts and their proc buffs that do double damage to undead.  In all the zones you go to there is quite abit amount of mobs that fall under the undead tag and almost all have the humanoid tag for better loot drops.  If i had a wish in this game, it would be that at least all of our combat arts that do divine damage do double damage to undead, not just several of them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The role i have always looked at for my paladin is a undead slayer type that is specced for raid adds and is very useful to any of the raiding classes.  If you do any type of tanking the EOF Hero line is a must, after that it is your choice to go down either more dps in the wraith line, more healing efficiency in the healing line or more utility in the support line.  I choosed the support line to have both the reduced recast of intercepts, the increase proc chance on our self only and group proc buffs plus the group armament ability to give a roughly 10% plus mitigation boost to non fighters in the group, which can be cast along with pledge of armament with no problems.  The end line cure is something i have wished to have since i rolled a paladin back in december of 04.  The remaining 8 points will go to the heal line, 3 to the fervant aid single heal line and 5 to the prayer group heal line to reduce casting and power cost.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If the question is how much fun is playing a paladin versus another class, i can only comment on the paladin side.  Since the time Steel was created on crushbone server, i have not had any inclination to play another class.  In solo and group combat/quests we have some powerful tools to get the job done.  In raiding i am usually the guild's raid leader and find that with EOF it is even easier to help guide raids with the addition to using bows when we need to devote more energy to intercepts, heals, rezes, or pull adds off non fighters.  Our class is a good oh <A href="mailto:sh@t" target=_blank>sh@t</A> class, where when it hits the fan we have skills that can help save the raid.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When progressing my paladin, i have devoted to maxxing health, power, mitigation and avoidance in that order.   In solo or light herioc stuff i will usually attack in two handed mode in offense and fall back to shield and hammer if it becomes worse.  I have setup a partial hotbar that i can toggle quickly thru adamantine hammer/shield of wyrms to spiritise censer for power tap, draconic manslayer for piercing 2 handed, vraksakin's club for crushing 2 handed plus a couple of others.  Makes for a quick change out from dps to tank to healing.  I am looking forward to the upcoming change on master strike so i can free up around 7 hotkeys...<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Rast]

<P>I have a lvl 60 paladin and spent alot of time solo.  I MT for my guild, I can heal and ward and I can solo.  Makes for a good class (though it needs a couple tweaks to allow it to really shine).</P> <P>but for advice for soloing with a pally, I will reiterate what OrcSlayers said.  Undead, Undead, Undead...  I spent a good deal of time searching out the undead to hunt with Jal simply because of his bonus to damage to them.  Not found any low t7 yet though, but still learning my way around KoS.</P>

[Quda]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gilthenin wrote:<BR>Greetings.<BR><BR>The highest character I have is a 32 paladin. I mostly play solo and have been having a blast upto this point. The only concern I have is higher levels... folks just keep telling me that Paladin DPS is horrable. I don't see that yet... but that may be my level.<BR><BR>I usually solo with a two-handed sword, offensive stance, all my spells/combat arts are at Adept 1-3. I don't think fights take that long, I kind of thought my DPS was good... I was even taking agro from the Berzerker I duoed with. But, due to short play times I don't want to get stuck at the higher levels with a frustrating choice.<BR><BR>So, a few questions if I may:<BR><BR>- In the begining, I was debating three classes; Paladin, Berzerker, and Swashbuckler. Has anyone played these and can give me a comparison of them? Just ease of soloing, speed soloing, etc.<BR><BR>- Paladin DPS... is it that bad? Have I just not reached high enough to notice? How much does a properly prepaired Paladin really do compaired to say, Berzerker? Swashbuckler? Is it something outragous? (ie: Swashbucklers do four times the damage of a Paladin!)<BR><BR>I'd really like to hear from folks who have tried multiple classes. I'm one of those folks who gets very little time online so the, "Try them all to 30" really doesn't work for me.<BR><BR>All advice, opinions, stories, points, comparisons, meathods... much appreciated. Thanks.<BR><BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Ok, about the pally dps here is the deal.  We are great until about 40+,  our dps takes a nose dive from there and never pulls up.  Compare my lvl 16 wizard can hit for the same numbers as my 70 pally, well just about.  My pally has a aoe spell adpt 3 that his for 313 max, my 16 wiz hits for 298 max aoe.</P> <P>The one saving grace for pallies, is we can survive.  The fertilzer hits the ventilator, and we will be standing longer, or give the squishies enough time to run for the zone, zone out, take a smoke break, and ask what is taking you so long.  We can change our AA lines and go healer, we can also change to max out our dps, yes, we can do some decent put in the right lines, we can also change our AA to go tank.  How many other classes do you know that can do all 3?</P> <P>Agro - We are the best in holding aggro, escpecialy with master amends A+<BR>Mit - We are about the mid range for tanks, zerks/guards are bettter, but they have a hard time with aggro C-<BR>DPS - We are the worst at it for fighters, monks/brawlers are better followed by zerks/guards F-</P> <P>One thing bad about pallies, every group from level 1-69 wants one tank. So your wanted 1 out of 6. At 70 this changes, and they only want 1 tank for a raid of 4 groups. So your wanted 1 out of 24, and guess what there is already a bunch of tanks at 70 waiting to MT.</P>

[Wulfborne]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Quda44 wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>Ok, about the pally dps here is the deal.  We are great until about 40+,  our dps takes a nose dive from there and never pulls up.  Compare my lvl 16 wizard can hit for the same numbers as my 70 pally, well just about.  <STRONG><EM><U>My pally has a aoe spell adpt 3 that his for 313 max</U></EM></STRONG>, my 16 wiz hits for 298 max aoe.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>[Removed for Content]? What AE do you have that is so [Removed for Content] that it only hits for 313 max at adept 3 quality? With the exception of Doom Judgement (which is NOT a T7 ability) every single AE I have hits for 800+... and some frequently are hitting for 2500 or 3200 per target.</P> <P>I'm not saying you are wrong. It's just that every paladin I know can put up better numbers than you are mentioning. Seeing that, I'm assuming you'd have to have next to 0 int, no int AAs, no crit AAs or adornments, no Symmetry gear, no wraths line, etc. Heck, you'd almost have to be trying to get numbers that low.</P> <P>If those are real figures, and not just an exaggeration, I really feel badly for you.</P> <P>~Hawke<BR></P>

[khufure]

You guys are way off target.  Did the op mention raids? NO.For soloing no question the swashy is better.  A lot better.  I solo with my alts brigand and conjuror.  Both own the paladin.  It is not even close.For DUO the paladin can be superior because he can heal and tank without wasting power on tanking (amends line).  However, if your duo partner is a berserker do yourself a favor and use the swashbuckler.End game there is almost no class more replacable than a paladin.  Sorry, I have a paladin but that's just the way it is right now.  A swashbuckler is 1000 times more useful iwth their debuffs and outstanding dps.<div></div>

[hawsecav19d]

<DIV><BR><BR>End game there is almost no class more replacable than a paladin.  Sorry, I have a paladin but that's just the way it is right now.  A swashbuckler is 1000 times more useful iwth their debuffs and outstanding dps.<BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then khufure your probably not playing to your paladins potentiel. A paladin can replace any other spot in a raid, group  tank/dps/healer and fill the roll with some effiecientcy if you got diff sets of gear. Tank gear I come to 4600mit and 7800 health  self buffed and can become MA or Offtank if needed. Switch Armor and jewelry I can get to  540 Str 640int self buffed and reach 750-900dps for zone. Went down Heal line in EoF I can heal well enough to beat real heal classes that think they need to do bit more dps in raids. I am not the best in any area but Paladins are they only class that can fill every single roll. If you concentrate to be MT you can become a MT for raids if you work at your dps you can become top 3rd dps on raid if you Spend your AA to heal and get the gear that helps you can become good backup healer. If you like Paladins play them if you dont then thats fine but its bad for business if spew stuff thats only part truth and rest bad experiences.</DIV>

[duuf]

I agre with Khufure, my pally, wiz and brig are all raid class with my pally self buffed for 5100 mit, 7900 health mostly mastered.  Cant tank as good as a moderately equipped guard, Cant ma as good as an sk (glad you guys finally got some luv).  On full offense all intel in place cant make the parse list even with all crit selections on aa.  As healer dont have enough power to keep up and crap for buffs/cures.  The raid never wants the pally always wants the wiz or the brig.  The only exceptional thing we can bring to a raid is amends.  Just not enough if your tank is good at holding aggro.SOE we need some luv tooDuufuss lvl 70 PallyDuufus lvl 70 BrigDuffus lvl 70 WizLEET HAX! (TItle bestowed by the greatest fury of all time Gutwrench)Everfrost<div></div>

[khufure]

<div><blockquote><hr>hawsecav19d wrote:<div>End game there is almost no class more replacable than a paladin.  Sorry, I have a paladin but that's just the way it is right now.  A swashbuckler is 1000 times more useful iwth their debuffs and outstanding dps.</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>Then khufure your probably not playing to your paladins potentiel. A paladin can replace any other spot in a raid, group  tank/dps/healer and fill the roll with some effiecientcy if you got diff sets of gear. Tank gear I come to 4600mit and 7800 health  self buffed and can become MA or Offtank if needed. Switch Armor and jewelry I can get to  540 Str 640int self buffed and reach 750-900dps for zone. Went down Heal line in EoF I can heal well enough to beat real heal classes that think they need to do bit more dps in raids. I am not the best in any area but Paladins are they only class that can fill every single roll. If you concentrate to be MT you can become a MT for raids if you work at your dps you can become top 3rd dps on raid if you Spend your AA to heal and get the gear that helps you can become good backup healer. If you like Paladins play them if you dont then thats fine but its bad for business if spew stuff thats only part truth and rest bad experiences.</div><hr></blockquote>I have a Paladin.  He's fine for groups.  I enjoy some things they can do, enough that I haven't rerolled and gone through the hell of leveling.  I've thought about making a warrior replacement a few times, though.  Anyway you are talking about raid usage.You can't beat any healer at healing.  Seriously, how long can you heal with Paladin wards?  Why would you have to be in MT group for heals?  If you are there for healing, why not have a fury or inquisitor instead?   I wonder if a Paladin can even heal more dps than a swashbuckler can prevent with debuffs.   My guess would be no chance if you are fast pulling encounters.  (E.g. Labs takes less than 1h30m total time).Res?  You can't out res a dirge or healer with your 1m res.  Oooh whoopee its a full hp heal.  It's about getting the people back up ASAP not full hp.  Looking for a dead body for 10s doesn't cut it in the big leagues.You can't beat any dps at dpsn - not even a warrior.  Assuming both specd for dps warrior will pummel Paladin.  In any case any real dps class like a swashbuckler is at least 2x Paladin dps or something horrible is wrong.  My experience is Paladins don't really try to dps on anything tough because their job is never ever to dps because they are no good at it.  On tough encounter the dps dps's and the Paladins OT.What can a Paladin do?  A little of everything.   Amends OT is about the best skill.  Maybe the day will come when the Paladin is in MT group again as a main assist.  I like the EOF lines for this future..P.S. 7800 health?  Our Paladin, when he was still with the guild, had > 9000 self buffed HP.</div>

[khufure]

<div><blockquote><hr>rtwitty wrote:<hr></blockquote>Bah if I had read your reply I would have skipped mine!</div>

[hawsecav19d]

<DIV>I am not in a full time raiding guild maybe thats the diff we raid about 3-5 times a month we have yet in last 6 months had ideal classes to fill out a raid. I get swapped around to diff roll [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] near every time from one raid to next on what job I am going to be doing. We have Pal as MT for our guild when he can be on and Guardian and Berserker when not. In less than Ideal situations or small family oriented guild a pally can fill every roll I said. I have never been in a raid heavy guild so cant say what happens there with Pallies but for day to day you cant beat our versitility at filling a spot when needed. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The guy who started this thread solo's mostly doesnt play alot so I take it he probably going to raid closer to weekly or monthly rather than daily. I still believe a paladin will offer you more versitilaty in long run if you want to group/solo and raid occasionaly. We can fill in a slot in raid and contribute we will not be as good as anyone else in any role though unless you have dedicated yourself with AA/armor/group setup/and learning how to fill a role. And you still may not if they play thier class well and are as dedicated as you are at yours because they have diff skills to fill that role proper.</DIV><p>Message Edited by hawsecav19d on <span class=date_text>12-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:09 PM</span>

[Ai yo]

pally is cool can heals, ward, tank.... & etc but its just not nothing that is real good at

[Robbpilot]

<DIV>I know others above have posted about DPS differences, but let's put it this way in comparing those three classes, which I can do as I play all three.  I play all three seriously, and try to do the best I can with each.  Considering that I hate like hell to die, and take pride in not doing so while still being challenged... look at these numbers:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Class              Kill vs Death Ratio</DIV> <DIV>Berserker                     70</DIV> <DIV>Swashbuckler             244</DIV> <DIV>Paladin                       <FONT color=#ffff00>663</FONT></DIV> <DIV>Necromancer              108</DIV> <DIV>Inquisitor                     139</DIV> <DIV>Warlock                      134</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, I play all these classes with the same level of enthusiasm, care, disdain for death, and quality of gear/spells.  I'd point out that the berserker's KVD ratio is lower due to raiding more.  Unfortunately, SOE believes that wiping often in raids is a good thing.  I'd say that without that skewing the berserker's ratio, it would be about 130 outside of raiding.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The point is that the paladin's versatility makes them very surviveable.  For someone who hates trivial death, this is important and adds greatly to my enjoyment of the class and the game.  There are many who play sorcerers, love the gigantic nukes, and don't mind dying 10 times every half hour, but that is not me.  You can see that I've managed to keep my sorcerer on par with my other characters, but it isn't easy.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On top of the paladin's surviveability, they can help other group mates survive when they wouldn't normally as well.  Not only heals, but rescues, intercepts, aggro reduction, and resurrections all help.  Lots of utility that the warriors just don't have.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I wish crusaders could dual wield though, and I also wish kite shields had a purpose today as well.  I just see towers as the better option, and there should be a reason for crusaders to use the kite shield IMHO.   I don't think the dual wield restriction serves any purpose other than flavor and tradition; I guess they'd consider that a utility that warriors have.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Robbpilot on <span class=date_text>12-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:39 PM</span>

[Exos]

<P>I have a 44 Paladin and a 36 Swashbuckler and without question the swashbuckler has been a better solo class for me.</P> <P>1. Soloing with a swashbuckler is just more active.  You do things like stun the mob, run to its back side, then use a combat art that does special damage from behind.  To me that kind of stuff makes it more fun.</P> <P>2. Swashbuckler is more self sufficient with skill like tracking & sneak.</P> <P>3. With good food and drink there is little down time between fights.</P> <P>I have very average gear, nothing special at all, and I can solo heroic mobs 8 levels below me.  I'm sure with better gear and combat art upgrades I could do tougher ones.</P> <P>I still enjoy playing my pally especially in groups its fun to be the tank.  Whats not to love about a tank that can ward and heal himself and others.</P> <P>Safe travels</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>