can't pick between....

[Chris14]

Hello all.im currently having a little bit of a hrad time deciding ifi want to play a guardian or a paladin. I like the idea of being the tank for a gorup and i do wish to group often. I know that the guardian would handle much better in a raid situation but in a group..will both be able to handle themselves quite well? what are the main differences between the two? I mean i know the paladin can heal themselves but is that that useful when you have a healer in hte group? is that able to replace the healer in some cases? Might the paladin be more fun to play having a little more versatility with spells and such? Can either of the two solo haha and if so which over the other? Thansk for the input in advance!<div></div>

[beliker]

If you plan to raid alot go with the guard. If you plan to solo and small group alot you will most likely get more milage out of a paladin.<div></div>

[Umeil]

Paladin on a PvP server sucks they are nothing more than useless ( proberbly why most have exiled and gone to become shadowknights)  A paladin is not bad in PvE  but a paladin is not considered anything more than a backup to the main tank.

[Faelgalad]

<P>A Paladin is sadly a lousy choice for solo play. </P> <P>Your heals get interupted often and your damage is so lousy, only plate healers and bards have less. </P> <P>So, to your astonishmend, the paladin community advises not to play an Paladin. </P> <P>SOE has no love for Paladins. </P>

[Seidhkona]

<blockquote><hr>Chris14 wrote:im currently having a little bit of a hrad time deciding ifi want to play a guardian or a paladin. I like the idea of being the tank for a gorup and i do wish to group often. I know that the guardian would handle much better in a raid situation but in a group..will both be able to handle themselves quite well? what are the main differences between the two? I mean i know the paladin can heal themselves but is that that useful when you have a healer in hte group? is that able to replace the healer in some cases? Might the paladin be more fun to play having a little more versatility with spells and such? Can either of the two solo haha and if so which over the other? Thansk for the input in advance!<div></div><hr></blockquote> Let me offer you some more constructive feedback than the answers I saw posted previously.  To start with, I love the paladin class, so much so that I have two toons that are paladins, one 70 and one 49. If you want uber damage and to rip through foes quickly, do not play either a guardian or a paladin.  These plate tanks are not meant to be death-dealing DPS specialists, so no use whining because they are not. A guardian is really hard to solo because the guardian has really low DPS.  You certainly CAN solo with a guardian, but most of the time you will want to be in a group.  Paladins have a bit more DPS because we get a bunch of spells and combat arts that do damage... and if you spec so that you have high INT, you can get spell crits pretty often and do some very respectable DPS.  The ability to self-ward and self-heal is really handy with a paladin and makes soloing just a bit easier.  For either a guardian or paladin, investing in high-end mastercrafted armor, shield, and weapon for your tier improves your soloability. Guardians get more taunts than paladins do and make very good raid and group tanks.  Paladins can and do act as Main Tank for end-game raid content.  Like guardians, paladins make good group tanks as well. The thing everybody seems to overlook when discussing end-game guardian vs. paladin is that most established raid guilds already HAVE a couple of plate tanks and they are not looking for more, of any flavor.  I think both classes have an equally difficult time finding raid slots as a consequence. Guardians are pretty much stuck in the role of tank.  They're fairly useless in a group unless they are tanking.  A paladin however, depending on how they are specced, can be a battle-mage or a secondary healer doing wards, heals and battle rez, and can pump out decent DPS. What I recommend is to start one of each on the newbie island and play them each to level 10 or so and see how they feel to you. If the plate armor is what attracts you, you might also check out berzerkers and templars.  Play with them some, get a feel for the class, and see what you like and don't like. <div></div>

[Goodwill]

great reply <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I have a paladin 64 and he is great at soloing (one of the best), and good in grps.. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> good backup heal - and decent DPS..<div></div>

[Kroms]

I duo with a paladin atm (im a swash) stick dps with a paladin and its all gravy. As for soloing eh its alot rougher with the paladin than it is for my swash. But together we destroy things.<div></div>

[Wulfborne]

<div><blockquote><hr>Chris14 wrote: Hello all.im currently having a little bit of a hrad time deciding ifi want to play a guardian or a paladin. I like the idea of being the tank for a gorup and i do wish to group often. I know that the guardian would handle much better in a raid situation but in a group..will both be able to handle themselves quite well? what are the main differences between the two? I mean i know the paladin can heal themselves but is that that useful when you have a healer in hte group? is that able to replace the healer in some cases? Might the paladin be more fun to play having a little more versatility with spells and such? Can either of the two solo haha and if so which over the other? Thansk for the input in advance!<div></div><hr></blockquote>Paladins are better at soloing - great survivability and can get some decent (not stellar) DPS.Paladins are better in group play, simply due to the versatility. (Yes, sometimes we can replace a healer, if spec'd correctly - though I wouldn't want to tank AND heal).Guardians are better for MT positions in raids. If a guard isn't the MT or MA in a raid, they don't bring as much to the table for a raid as a paladin can, imo. Again, this is due to our higher versatility.I've played my pally from day 1. Though we're the black sheep of the community, we're a fun class to play. Even all those guys you see saying "OMG SoE f00ked up the paladin class AGAIN!" keep coming back to check up on the class. You'll either love your pally or hate him, through all the percieved nerfs and changes.Good luck,~Hawke</div>

[Chris14]

Ahh thank you all for the input it has really helped. Im thinking im gonna go with the paladin but im still deciding. Thansk though.<div></div>

[beliker]

<div><blockquote><hr>Umeil wrote:<div></div>Paladin on a PvP server sucks they are nothing more than useless ( proberbly why most have exiled and gone to become shadowknights)  A paladin is not bad in PvE  but a paladin is not considered anything more than a backup to the main tank.<hr></blockquote>It really dependso on what you consider sucking. I went from a high lvl assassin to play a paladin on the other side when Gaydar came out to experiance it from the begining. Sure solo im not going to kill anyone, but on the flip side, its hard for them to kill me either. I Ussually see them coming throw up my ward and throw down. When they get to half hp and im still full they run, and sure I can't catch them so I dont bother but its a win in my book.In small group I roll with a wiz, a ranger and at times a fury, we absolutly tear [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] up. I have everything locked down with all my taunts, and stuns, aoe stuns are nice. The fury never has to heal me I have that covered and is free to nuke and snare and root, while the Fey mage is hard to target to begin with, but throw in being taunted off and he is impossible for them to stick too, and does so much dps.Now if I was going to solo pvp I would be an assy again, the thought of a solo pally on Naggy, is a no thanks in my book. Now I might be a masochist but im not stupid. I would play my paladin in small group over my zerker any day of the week, and on pve id take paly over it, although ive never played pve. On my 50 zerker untill 50 he was almost dependant on someone else to level at any rate of speed. If my fury friend wasn't on, I just didn't bother. Sure I could do it but it was so boring. Paladin is just way more fun to me, more fun then my 45 bard, more fun then my 50 zerker, more fun then my 40 assassin. I just like the feeling of taking on a group of white mobs or a couple rogues coming out of stealth to take on the group, and never getting taken below 90%hp.</div>

[hawsecav19d]

<DIV>Hope you go with the Pally I probably get ripped for saying this but Paladins are good enough healers to do most instances if you have right group make up. I am normally the tank but if we are healer short I can heal well enough to keep friends who are Berserker and ShadowKnight alive on Nest of Great Egg and Den of Devour instances.  Add in Wiz Assisin and Swash and we can do enough dps to negate my lack of great healing. I dont think a Gaurdian could ever do that they have other skills that make them nice for taking on solo epic mobs. For group content Paladins are the way to go. My guilds told me to quit bittchin if I am tanking I do pretty good job if I switch armor jewelery to dps I can make top 8 in parse most times and I can swap to emergency healer they say I got enough and dont need sony to hand me anythings thats going to make me alot better in any one area and permanently take spot from anouther class cause I can do it all well enough as is.</DIV>

[DravynX]

<P>I wouldn't say paladin's are all that bad at pvp..I solo almost exclusively and I'm ranked a Slayer atm...my kvd isn't all that great, but one on one I rarely lose a fight. I'm lvl 37 by the way, so I can't speak for anything higher than that. I also find, at this lvl, that pve solo is a breeze. I have heard that our dps doesn't scale well, and things will get harder at higher levels, but I can't comment on it personally.</P> <P>"the thought of a solo pally on Naggy, is a no thanks in my book" - I am <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>[Message Edited by DravynX on <SPAN class=date_text>12-10-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:10 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by DravynX on <span class=date_text>12-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:11 PM</span>

[Chris14]

yeah it really seems that the paladin's have a lot more options to them, which i like a lot. A guardian will always seem to rely on the group when maybe the paladin can't get by a little easier if there is no one around.<div></div>

[Rast]

<P>I pretty much have soloed my my 59 all the way up.  I've gotten a few groups with my guild (preferring that now because I needed to work on my group tanking skills, which I'm getting decidedly better at <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)  We aren't a fast solo class and you will not kill quick, but we are durable and I like the complexity of the heals and wards.</P> <P>My suggestion to you, get your mana stone as soon as you are able, it will make your life soooooooooooooo much easier once you do.</P>

[Karlen]

<blockquote><hr>Lynassihr wrote:<div></div> <p>A Paladin is sadly a lousy choice for solo play. </p> <p>Your heals get interupted often and your damage is so lousy, only plate healers and bards have less. </p><hr></blockquote>Try using your ward.  I rarely use my heal(s) when soloing, as my ward protects me and keeps me near full health.  Also, with the ward up you don't get interrupted very often.   The AA that reduces the ward recast from 15 seconds to 10 seconds really helps too.Also, for soloing, get a 2H sword and use your offensive stance (upgraded to adept III or master 1 if possible).  This will help you improve your damage quite a bit. While the upgrading all of your spells/abilities is certainly an objective, I have found that upgrading the offensive stance and ward are the most important for soloing.<div></div>

[Rast]

<P>heck, unless I'm fighting something EXCEPTIONALLY tough, I tank in offensive.  The loss of power and dps doesn't offset the increase in mitigation for group mobs.</P> <P>I've actually tried to tank in defensive, I have a harder time of it than I do in offensive stance.  I hold agro better and with a good healer (I have a great one in my guild) I rarely even have to use my ward.</P>

[Gynx20]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Umeil wrote:<BR> Paladin on a PvP server sucks they are nothing more than useless ( proberbly why most have exiled and gone to become shadowknights)  A paladin is not bad in PvE  but a paladin is not considered anything more than a backup to the main tank.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I am guessing this is someone who is either low lvl, or is trying to solo pvp. Yes you will suck at that. In a group we are a monster. Yes interupts suck, but they dont really bother me all that much. Sigils/Doom Judgement and start AEing.</P> <P>Aslo your AA lines make a big difference here. Hammer Ground is HUGE!! That with Brimstone and out quickcast AE thats 3 AE interupts all good damage and quick cast quick refresh.</P>

[ChopStix]

<DIV>i have a lvl70 pally and a lvl70 zerker, and to answer the original question i have to say a paladin lacks dps, to solo t7 content, now a pally can solo single arrow ups yes, double arrow ups are tough, and you will not take on a triple up even conned unless your in relic/fabled stuff.. maybe in all legendary if your very good at playing your class but they are extremely hard now with the EoF combat changes, evidently i cant play the class well, i'm in all legendary and some fabled and i can not solo a triple up even conned ..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>guardians are tough tanks in a group with a healer and dps, paladins get interupted too much in t7 to heal effectivly while tanking and the ward is not enough in t7, and thier defense/avoidance isnt enough now unless you have some extremely good gear.. healing and tanking simultaneously and effectively are almost impossible now, so do one or the other but not both at the same time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>too me the toss up for a pure tank role would be a guardian or a beserker but only if you have a committed healer that plays alot and you can level up with..  the beserkers pump out alot of dps and never get interupted ,for a plate tank they are fun to play..  my choice is a beserker hands down</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>guardians post EoF, are a good tanking choice and thier dps has been bumped up alot with the right guardian specific aa's chosen, but thats not until T7 with about 58 or 59 aa's...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>paladins post EoF are nothing more than a templar with added dps, and reduced heals... interupts are to frequent now, and casting timers are to long on the heals.... if your not main tanking and assisting, yes a paladin is a VERY EFFECTIVE class, extra heals, wards and the mitigation transfer are EXTREMELY nice on a beserker or guardian that is main tanking and it stacks wit ha templars buff .... a paladin can do GOOD dps against the undead which seem to frequent these new instances alot..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Umeil]

<DIV>For the record my pally is L70 not the best kitted but not the worst and since release of EoF paladins are worthless unless grouped and they are not the main tank but the back up to the main tank.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As chop said they are nothing more than a sub healer with a dash more DPS ( and i mean a small dash)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As a L70 pally we had a group with a 63 zerker in and at the level he was already out DPSing me by well over 200 average a fight. ( i was sword sheild  in defence stance as it helps with the mit x-fere)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Paladins dont have the DpS to match any other tank in the game they had a huge knock on resists since EoF and if it were not for amends the class could easily be removed from the game without changeing anything gameplay wize.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for pally ward  at upper levels master 1 wards for around 1400 every 1 min,  Most classes will deal that damage against the paladin within 10-15 seconds rendering that of no real use either. Heals are very easily interupted but I guess that is for all classes that cast  and what u need to remember is when you are casting your heal you are doing no damage but are still receiving damage ( most times way more that what you will heal for again rendering the pally heal as useless)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also please not this is based on PvP  NOT PvE.  These are 2 totaly different aspects of the game and the sooner Sony realizes that and fixes the problems the better.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I dont ask for "the ubber class" I just ask for a competetive class.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Umeil on <span class=date_text>12-17-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:39 AM</span>

[Demoley]

Paladins are still one of the best classes in game if you know how to play one, the problem is 90% of paladins are complete idiots, our dps is decent but will never match with a pure dps class such as an asn, our tanking ability is great if you have the right group set up, if you want a challenge roll a paladin if you want to tank with ease and very little skill role a guardian, nough said<div></div>