Amends broke?

[Quda]

<DIV>This is about amends, and also about all our taunts.  They don't work any more.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lets get this out in the open.  With the new stats increase, dps's can hit more, but out taunt values stayed the same?  This does not make any sense.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here is the story:</DIV> <DIV>Last night in a quick nest run.  I have all taunts mastered, and amends, and AA'ed for max hate.  I put my amends on a wizard, in the fights I spam all my taunts, and the wizard still pulls aggro through amends EVERY time.  Doing the same things she use to do pre-eof.  On top of that everyone but me was pulling aggro even the fury.</DIV> <DIV><BR>Now I know how to play my class, and know what to do.  But they double the stats, they need to double the values of taunts and amends.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A wizard pulling aggro through master amends and taunts, every time, something is broke.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyone having the same issue, she said she is now constently pulling aggro after eof from other tanks, so it isn't just me.  Any changes to the AA line that will help me maintain aggro?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also changing the stats to allow dps to hit harder is a good thing, but the lack in attention to changing taunts is a major oversight.  It is like hey look we can hit harder, but now we have to hit less (pre-eof level) because we will pull aggro.</DIV>

[Rast]

In the groups I've done I've not had problems like that...  In fact the other night I was running with a group with amends on the conjy pet and only lost agro 1 time the entire evening.  Granted that wasn't an instance or a full group (Me, conjy, fury and templar) and that was with only AdpI amends (I bought the M1 version the next day).  Now our guild guardian was having problems holding agro from a monk in our guild, but his taunts were being overly resisted during the fight.

[Arraza]

<DIV>First, you have to determine whether that wizard has his hate transfer on your or not.  I always ask wiz/war to remove their hate transfer and then I recast amends.  This has been an issue for a long time, not only with the expansion.  Before I knew this I was about ready to give up tanking after a few really nasty instance runs that left me scratching my head as to [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] was going on.  This also bugs with other classes hate transfers as well, so keep an eye out.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Second, you are right there have been significant agro issues lately.  Partially because the new combat system allows for taunts to be resisted, so depending on your level, you have a good chance of getting resisted.  I have had 3 taunts resisted off the bat on some 70+ pulls, so that can be a factor.  SOE is *supposedly fixing this by adding an aggression skill that will level like p/c/s to 350 which may help the taunts being resisted.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Third, your spot on about the DPS increase and the threat levels of our taunts staying the same.  It amazes me since SOE hasn't commented about this at all, and I can't figure out whether they completely neglected that fact and haven;t admitted it yet, or whether for some reason they don't think its a factor.  Personally I have been having a rough time when my group has several really high dps classes who are continually hitting that 900-1000 dps mark (talking group, not raid).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To combat the DPS increase I have gone down the wrath line and the STA/INT lines, which have given me substantially more dps which adds to my hate.  Blowing off my taunts followed by my aes has worked very well for holding agro.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Wintermute218 on <span class=date_text>12-08-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:08 AM</span>

[Knesh]

<DIV>Amends and taunts are working fnie for me in fact after EOF it looks as though SOE fixed the coercer and other players hate gains/transfers to stack with amends. I have zero problem holding agro but if there are 2 wizards or 2 mage types and 1 mage the one I have amends on slacks on DPS and not as much hate is being transferred it can cause me to lose agro to other high dmg dealers. in the group but generally since EOF if no resists on taunts I can 99% of the time hold agro or if I lose it its only for a sec or 2 at the most.</DIV>

[Anariale]

<DIV>Amends is the lowest level threat-transfer spell, even though its the most powerful.  Because of this, its ALWAYS overwritten by other transfer spells.  If a Wizard/Swashy/Assassin/Warlock/Poedunkmomojojo casts their aggro transfer, it will take precedence over Amends.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thus, to solve all problems, make sure that noone uses aggro transfer on you or the target of your amends.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Seomon]

<DIV>If you have Amends on someone, make sure they don't have a hate trans on you. And just saying "don't hate trans to me" doesn't work. I do that, and only when I'm grouping with guildies will the hate trans get turned off, I have to manually go in and turn theirs off.<BR></DIV>

[Wulfborne]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Anariale wrote:<BR> <DIV>Amends is the lowest level threat-transfer spell, even though its the most powerful.  Because of this, its ALWAYS overwritten by other transfer spells.  If a Wizard/Swashy/Assassin/Warlock/Poedunkmomojojo casts their aggro transfer, it will take precedence over Amends.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thus, to solve all problems, make sure that noone uses aggro transfer on you or the target of your amends.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yeah, that's the safest route, though I've heard *some* stacking is possible, but is least buggy if your Amends is the last one tossed out there. Ex: Swash puts transfer onto you, and then you cast Amends on the...wizard, lets say. Done in that order, it usually works ok. You can NOT cast the amends back onto the Swash for added redux, however.</P> <P>It's really hard for me to find all the hate transfer icons in my buffs window to be able to cancel them off. Does anyone know if there's a way to edit the icons on my end, so that maybe I could find them faster? (Like making a red haze over the buff icon, so when it pops up there, I immediately see it and can adjust or click it off).</P> <P>~Hawke</P>

[Wallzak]

<P>One word... distance...</P> <P>I try to avoid casters for Amends because they have to be within 10 metres to make it work.  I often find casters stand back too far, or move away, thus making Amends null.  </P> <P>My favorite... monks, especially for single target mobs.  They do the most steady high amounts of dps in the game... that, and they're often closer to the mob than I am.</P> <P>That said... as everyone else has stated, make sure the Amendee doesn't have their hate transfer on you.</P>

[Mantell]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> sammcduff wrote:<BR> <P>One word... distance...</P> <P>I try to avoid casters for Amends because they have to be within 10 metres to make it work.  I often find casters stand back too far, or move away, thus making Amends null.  </P> <P>My favorite... monks, especially for single target mobs.  They do the most steady high amounts of dps in the game... that, and they're often closer to the mob than I am.</P> <P>That said... as everyone else has stated, make sure the Amendee doesn't have their hate transfer on you.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Amends requires 10m to work? I just thought you had to be 10m to cast it. </P> <P>Is this a change? Because I used to pull aggro from Amends from across a dungeon when a swashy would accidentally aggro something and then cast their aggro reducer.<BR></P>

[Caetrel]

Amends is not broke lol.  OP, the wizzie prolly had his 3% hate transfer (something they added to a wizzie proc a few months back) on you, that will bork Amends. 10m range on Amends is just for casting.  We did a pickup raid on Labs last night.  I had Amends on a Deflier lol.  Vyemn was memwiping and not even changing his target off me, and I guarantee she was not within 10m of me for any of the zone.   <div></div>

[Kaleyen]

I've had the same experience as the OP since the release of EoF. <div></div>

[Seomon]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> sammcduff wrote:<BR> <P>I try to avoid casters for Amends because they have to be within 10 metres to make it work.  I often find casters stand back too far, or move away, thus making Amends null.  </P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Not true.</P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wulfborne wrote:<BR> <P>Yeah, that's the safest route, though I've heard *some* stacking is possible, but is least buggy if your Amends is the last one tossed out there. Ex: Swash puts transfer onto you, and then you cast Amends on the...wizard, lets say. Done in that order, it usually works ok. You can NOT cast the amends back onto the Swash for added redux, however.</P> <P>It's really hard for me to find all the hate transfer icons in my buffs window to be able to cancel them off. Does anyone know if there's a way to edit the icons on my end, so that maybe I could find them faster? (Like making a red haze over the buff icon, so when it pops up there, I immediately see it and can adjust or click it off).</P> <P>~Hawke</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>1) Stacking is possible. I can have a coercer +hate, an assassin's hate trans, a wizzy hate trans, and then amends on the bruiser. I won't lose agro.</P> <P>2) It's not possible. Are you using a custom UI to make the icons really small? I am, and it does make finding the icons hard, but it just takes a couple seconds to make sure that you have huge problems later.<BR></P>

[Caetrel]

<hr size="2" width="100%">1) Stacking is possible. I can have a coercer +hate, an assassin's hate trans, a wizzy hate trans, and then amends on the bruiser. I won't lose agro. <hr size="2" width="100%">You are 100% correct.  Everything stacks as long as it involves only one transfer per person.   If you Amends the assasin, or wizard, for example, there can be issue.  You could Amends a Dirge or Ceorcer and still have their hate gain because it is a gain not a transfer, although that wouldn't be a great choice. Cripes, Amends a Defiler, get hate from a dirge and get MD from an assasin and that alone will keep aggro.  The only way I can see any paladin having a problem is if they are ad3/legendary and everyone else is M1/fabled.    <div></div>

[falconx3]

Actually I havent noticed this. The other night in Lyceum wizzy had his hate transfer on me and I had master amends on him. I sat down and did nothing on the fight. Soon I was laying on the ground as the wizzy had managed to get me killed. <div></div>

[hawsecav19d]

<DIV>I am finding only way to keep amends from getting funky is to cast it right before I pull the first mob and anytime we have break or me or my hate bunny dies. If I cast it when zone in somebody going to override it somehow so I just wait till right before the first pull. No problems after that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Wulfborne]

<div><blockquote><hr>Seomon wrote:<div></div> <p>1) Stacking is possible. I can have a coercer +hate, an assassin's hate trans, a wizzy hate trans, and then amends on the bruiser. I won't lose agro.</p> <p>2) It's not possible. Are you using a custom UI to make the icons really small? I am, and it does make finding the icons hard, but it just takes a couple seconds to make sure that you have huge problems later.</p><hr></blockquote>Well shoot. No, I don't run a custom UI, but I run in a pretty high resolution, so the icons are smaller than in others. Also, since some of the icons are "reused" (not everything has its own individual icon used for nothing else) it makes it a tedious task to look through, especially if I'm approximating the 30 or so icon capacity. Oh well. Would be neat if they'd implement it.~Hawke</div>

[khufure]

<div><blockquote><hr>Wulfborne wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Seomon wrote:<div></div> <p>1) Stacking is possible. I can have a coercer +hate, an assassin's hate trans, a wizzy hate trans, and then amends on the bruiser. I won't lose agro.</p> <p>2) It's not possible. Are you using a custom UI to make the icons really small? I am, and it does make finding the icons hard, but it just takes a couple seconds to make sure that you have huge problems later.</p><hr></blockquote>Well shoot. No, I don't run a custom UI, but I run in a pretty high resolution, so the icons are smaller than in others. Also, since some of the icons are "reused" (not everything has its own individual icon used for nothing else) it makes it a tedious task to look through, especially if I'm approximating the 30 or so icon capacity. Oh well. Would be neat if they'd implement it.~Hawke</div><hr></blockquote>Are you using sigil of heroism?  My experience with sigil is it buggers with any transfer but amends, and sometimes with buffs (dirge etc) as well.  If you have 2 transfers on you NEVER use sigil of heroism.For more discussion see my thread @ <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=116097" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=116097</a></div>

[Wulfborne]

<P>khufure, I'm not having stacking problems or amends problems. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>I just wanted to know if there was a way to alter buff icons so you could "tell at a glance" if one of them might interfere with amends.</P> <P>Your link might be useful to the OP though. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>~Hawke</P>

[Seomon]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> khufure wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wulfborne wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Seomon wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>1) Stacking is possible. I can have a coercer +hate, an assassin's hate trans, a wizzy hate trans, and then amends on the bruiser. I won't lose agro.</P> <P>2) It's not possible. Are you using a custom UI to make the icons really small? I am, and it does make finding the icons hard, but it just takes a couple seconds to make sure that you have huge problems later.<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Well shoot. No, I don't run a custom UI, but I run in a pretty high resolution, so the icons are smaller than in others. Also, since some of the icons are "reused" (not everything has its own individual icon used for nothing else) it makes it a tedious task to look through, especially if I'm approximating the 30 or so icon capacity. Oh well. Would be neat if they'd implement it.<BR><BR>~Hawke<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Are you using sigil of heroism?  My experience with sigil is it buggers with any transfer but amends, and sometimes with buffs (dirge etc) as well.  If you have 2 transfers on you NEVER use sigil of heroism.<BR><BR>For more discussion see my thread @ <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=116097" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=116097</A><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Sigil sucks, never use it. Too much bugs go along with it that it's not even worth it.

[Gynx20]

<DIV>I have seen both sides to this. I do believe amends is broken in that if the casting order is not done correctly can mess up agro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Example, was grouped in CMM with warden myself (only tank) 2 swashies a dirge and a conj. At first had some real agro problems. The final solution was get agro buff from one of the swashies on me first then amends the second swashie. After that I think I only lost agro a couple times, we were able to tear the mobs up and had no worries.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do think casting order and some other agro control spells can really bunk this up. But does seem better to me. Also I only have a master taunt in our encounter and adept 3 in single and amends.</DIV>

[Kaleyen]

I picked up amends M1 off the broker for 3p a week or so back <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Seomon]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kaleyen wrote:<BR>I picked up amends M1 off the broker for 3p a week or so back <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I think I got mine for 4p awhile back.</P> <P>Best... master... ever.</P>

[Rast]

[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], I got a steal then...  I payed 65g for mine about a week ago...

[Wallzak]

I got mine... back about a week before the 49-42% nerf... for cheap, dirt cheap, half a plat if I remember correctly.