Agro Issues?

[Kaleyen]

Maybe I'm the only one having issues, but here's how a normal one of my groups goes.Me Tanking3-4 DPS Classes1-2 Healers All my taunts are Master I, I try to get the encounter Taunt/Debuff before I try to get the other two taunts to land....I am probably landing less then 50% of my taunts, I always see this big "Resist" tag over their heads.  So that's part of the problem, so then one would think that amends would be my savor.  Well in all my groups thus far if I put amends on DPS Class A then Class B and Class C as well as Class A pull agro....so why is the person I'm putting amends on pulling agro?  Maybe it's just their class cause they can do spike damage.  So I'll put it on another DPS class like a Brawler....same thing happens.  Basically it doesn't matter who I put amends on, the other DPS classes will get agro along with the person I have amends on.  And their not doing anything different, I've been grouping with these guys for the past 4 months and since weapon damage was reduced I really don't get it.Any ideas?<div></div>

[madha]

I was having similar issues the other night the person with amends was going full blast as allways and kept getting agro.  I canceld amends and recast it cleaned up the problem right away,  YOu can cast amends on yourself now so watch out i did it the first day of the expantion and wondered to myself how usefull taking 30% of my own hate lol...  What saddens me is I hit like a little girl with a wet noodle now, and i hate the way haste is displayed, mod will be 62 but you'll swing  64% faster.

[Kaleyen]

I was constantly refreshing it because I was trying it with different people all night.  This has been happening for the past week now, I'm probably tanking maybe 60% of the time. <div></div>

[Odinwray Treewalker]

please refer to my post in this thread. if it doesnt fix your agro issues somethings wrong. http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=10&message.id=30766<div></div>

[Kaleyen]

I read your post at the bottom and I was under the impression that it was all pretty common knowledge to a T7 Paladin, all of those steps I've been using for as long as I can remember. Only thing I can think of is that damage creates agro and my 1 hander use to be decent before the combat changes but after it's below a 70 DR, so maybe that's the cause of my woes? <div></div>

[Wulfborne]

<P>I've had a little more difficulty getting a 'lock' on aggro as well, but I assume that the problem is multi-dimentional.</P> <P>You mention that you roll with several DPS'ers. Their new AA's most likely give significant boosts to their DPS. So, even though overall dps and damage ratings of everyone went down, they likely chose lines that boosted them back up - and with enough points can actually probably hit better dps numbers than before. Your crew is going to need to relearn aggro management. Until then, I'd suggest putting amends on one of 2 people - either whichever DPS that can't aggro dump to you or threat redux in some manor, or on the squishiest friend.</P> <P>Meanwhile, find items that have a proc called 'aggrivate' on it. I believe Aggrevate 2 procs a 700 point taunt - that's more hate than Ascendant procs. Additionally, look for adornments that boost how hard your melee and spells hit, or look for damage shield-types. More damage for you = more hate as well.</P> <P>If several of your buddies do not have/use hate transfers, blast Sigil as often as you can. I have not seen it bug out Amends for a while, and it seems to work pretty well for me.</P> <P>Hope some of that helps.</P> <P>~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul</P>

[Kaleyen]

Yeah thanks, I'll look into some adornments.  However anything that procs hate will be going to our warriors unless there's an instance where a named drops a weapon that increases my hate and I'm the only tank there <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[equinoxio]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kaleyen wrote:<BR>Maybe I'm the only one having issues, but here's how a normal one of my groups goes.<BR><BR>Me Tanking<BR>3-4 DPS Classes<BR>1-2 Healers <BR><BR>All my taunts are Master I, I try to get the encounter Taunt/Debuff before I try to get the other two taunts to land....I am probably landing less then 50% of my taunts, I always see this big "Resist" tag over their heads.  So that's part of the problem, so then one would think that amends would be my savor.  Well in all my groups thus far if I put amends on DPS Class A then Class B and Class C as well as Class A pull agro....so why is the person I'm putting amends on pulling agro?  Maybe it's just their class cause they can do spike damage.  So I'll put it on another DPS class like a Brawler....same thing happens.  Basically it doesn't matter who I put amends on, the other DPS classes will get agro along with the person I have amends on.  And their not doing anything different, I've been grouping with these guys for the past 4 months and since weapon damage was reduced I really don't get it.<BR><BR>Any ideas?<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I had this problem last night, was in a group with a bruiser a monk and a warlick, i normaly put the amends on the bruiser since he does a lot of agro, but then the monk got agro and the warlock died like 4 times from stealing agro, I changed the amends to the warlock, and then the bruiser would agro lock the mobs ping ponging it with the monk, there was like no steady agro producer for amends, the only moments i could hold agro when i used sigil.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The resist on hate is really annoying and makes holding the agro of the encounter more difficult.</DIV>

[Kaleyen]

We went to labs last night, decided to try out the KoS zones since the fix and seeing as Labs is the easiest KoS T7 raid zone we wanted to test against this zone.  We cleared it in under an hour and a half with a few wipes and deaths here and there. But to the point our MT was losing agro a lot easier and he has the shield from MMC that procs hate to the encounter, then our other MT (we have two MT's Zerker and Guardian we just flip a coin on who's tanking a raid basically when they're both around for raid form up) and he has the axe from deathtoll that has a hate increaser and he was losing agro. So it's not just me when I'm doing my group instances and I can't keep agro for longer then 5 seconds. <div></div>

[Wulfborne]

<P>I'm gonna go out on a limb here and assume it's partially because of the combat 'tweaking' abd partially because of classes not knowing their aggro limits with all these new AAs. If you check out most classes have lines that increase their hate or increase their damage done, etc. I'm betting that has adjusted how fast/how often they can hit their 'big numbers' buttons.</P> <P>~Hawke</P>

[Arraza]

<DIV>I have been having significantly more trouble with agro the past few days as well.  I have never had agro issues in the past between our aes and taunts i hasnt been an issue, but since early / mid last week I have been having a real hard time holding agro in grouped encounters and even sometimes on single mobs.  People who I group with regularly were pulling mobs off me in many encounters, I even had a healer pull a mob off me a couple times in a grouped encounter.  I really think something changed recently that SOE hasn't owned up to.  Even guards and beserkers in my guild were having difficulties as well.  The worst issue seems to be that when someone actually grabs agro, its is almost impossible to get it back without blowing rescue or sigil, wheras in the past just tossing a few taunts in would get it back.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I understand that people are doing more dps, but if it is the dps / healer lines that are now pulling agro, then perhaps SOE should have thought about bumping tanks taunts as well.  I mean whats the rationale for increasing everyones DPS and healing capabilities, but not increasing tanks taunting abilites?  Some flawed thinking...</DIV>

[Kaleyen]

Tanks Arraza for bringing up two points that I failed to mention earlier. 1. Healers are pulling agro 2. Almost impossible to regain agro without blowing a rescue (I've found it's really difficult to regain agro when I throw out a sigil) Oh and I suppose a third point as well... I've talked to the Zerkers and the Guardian in my guild and they're all fuming over the same thing, so I'm glad to know that I'm not a complete bloobie. <div></div>

[CycoDelic]

<DIV>Only time I have had a healer pull agro is on the pull... but with so much social agro in the EoF zones I have been going more towards having a ranger/assasin surv pull.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for Guards/Zerkers... yeah, I have been hearing this too. Moreso from our zerker. To quote him "There is nothing better than getting nerfed and asked to spend AA to get to where I was... I love the smell of napalm in the morning, smells like victory!"</DIV>

[Arraza]

<DIV>Ok, glad its being discussed here as well.  I was feeling like a complete idiot for a few days, actually getting really bummed out thinking I was slipping as a tank... kept saying to myself that it must be some environmental issue like I didn't get enough sleep or whatever, but I think its an issue / bug now that I am hearing more about it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was talking to a few folks in my group about it in TS, and our berserker, other pally, and guardian said they were having the same issues and all the people in my group were saying that it wasn't me that they had been having *worse* problems with other tanks, so that made me feel a little better.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hope SOE takes a look into this and hopefully theres a fix somewhere, between that and this stupid chat bug they better get cracking.</DIV>

[Kaleyen]

Well this is what I believe is happening as to why the healer is pulling agro.  Once I lose agro the hate list is all [Removed for Content]'d so they can easily pull it when they have to use their insta heals on the scouts/mages/anyone who has pulled it.  And I'm a big believer in surv pull, only place that I don't activily use it is in Blight cause a blind monkey can pull that zone <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Arraza]

<P>Nope, I'm well aware of prewarding and healing on pull agro issues, this was typically in group encounters or multi-mob non-grouped encounters.  Prior to now, I never had an issue with blowing a couple aes and holding agro that way, even in non-grouped encoutners.  In fact, I think paladins excel at holding agro on multiple mobs, non grouped encounters because of our aes.  Anyway, on most pulls I'll ward myself to get the extra agro and give the healers a break for the first few seconds.</P> <P>oh and Surveillence is an awesome tool for hunting names!<BR></P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> CycoDelic wrote:<BR> <DIV>Only time I have had a healer pull agro is on the pull... but with so much social agro in the EoF zones I have been going more towards having a ranger/assasin surv pull.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for Guards/Zerkers... yeah, I have been hearing this too. Moreso from our zerker. To quote him "There is nothing better than getting nerfed and asked to spend AA to get to where I was... I love the smell of napalm in the morning, smells like victory!"</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Rast]

I think what I've noticed (I've not done raids, so this is from a group perspective) is my taunts are getting resisted alot more than they use to and sometimes in all the battle spam, it is hard to tell what is getting resisted at times, but if the taunts are NOT landing it is going to be exceptionally difficult to use any form of agro management...<p>Message Edited by Raston on <span class=date_text>11-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:22 PM</span>

[Kaleyen]

I know the majority of my taunts are being resisted but luckily rescue isn't! <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Rast]

Yah, but it is nearly a double nerf for tanks with this...  not only will the DPS classes be able to pull agro from us easier due to more DPS but our own ability at holding agro has gotten worse.  Rescue is nice, but it's application is limited due to the recast timer on it.

[Freliant]

<P>Yes, I do believe there is an issue with not only taunts, but almost all hate related spells being outright resisted. My tank, with all masters/all fabled never had problems keeping agro. Prior to whatever update happened before I was also able to do some mean dps with the AA lines I went into, however, now I get resisted constantly on all types of taunts, and the auto attack of my weapon is being dodge, blocked and parried much more often than it ever has. On my mage, most of my attack spells land no problem, and their "% harder" is much lower than the "%harder" on my guardian's taunts. On top of this, my wizards detaunts are also being resisted alot more... Something is definately wonkey on the whole thing and I can't put my finger on it.</P> <P>Maybe it has to do something with the chat bug we've all been having :smileysad:</P>

[DarkLord35]

<DIV>Relief from dev's comming soon,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This posted in the Guard forum,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> Lockeye wrote:<BR>Neither,<BR><BR>But scheduled for the next update, all defensive stances will increase a new skill called Aggression that reduces the chances that taunts are resisted. This does allow Aggression to be found on other spells and items as well...<BR> <BR> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Jedod 70th Paladin</DIV> <DIV>The Tyrants</DIV> <DIV>Permafrost</DIV>

[Xidiana]

<P>Hi Guys</P> <P>I've also had this issue since EOF. But I haven't found it to be that big I problem. I've been having to spam Sigil and Intercede (think thats the name) alot more, but 50% of the time, instead of relying on purely my taunts, I also rely on my AOE's to keep aggro. </P> <P>Appart from that, what I also believe is the big difference, is that I almost always have a monk in my group. What I do is smack amends on the monk, and have him go in offensive stance and have dragon stance up. I also ask him to pop a taunt now and again... and after that, I almost never loose aggro.</P> <P>Friendly<BR>lvl 70 Paladin<BR>Oldliners Darathar</P>

[Madbiker]

<DIV>Same, agro is so screwy now when it used to be cut & dry. with AA's, classes have de-agros, I try to tell everyone in my group not to use transfers and such, but im pretty sure there was stealth nerfage or some broken code</DIV>