66.6% of paladins would never be happy

[Mgunner]

<DIV>Because you will either gear yourself for good healer, good DPS, or good tank (notice the word great wasn't used)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SOE can make us a better tank, but those who want DPS won't be happy.</DIV> <DIV>SOE can make us better DPS, but won't make the paladin tanks happy.</DIV> <DIV>SOE can make us better healers, but at the expense of DPS and tanking paladins.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So it's the direction to make us average at best in each of the roles we fulfill. If they made us great at one of the three roles, 2/3 of us would be angry.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>**side note** I'm pretty certain not many of us want to be great healers.</DIV>

[Obfw Striker]

<P>I think you hit the nail on the head. </P> <P>YET...........SOE has made Berserkers as good at tanking as Guardians - maybe better - and they have the highest dps of any fighter - looks like they have their cake and are eating it also.</P> <P>........and dont get me wrong Im not grousing about Berserkers - more power to them - just how about a little mitigation help for the Paladin - like where is our T7 mit symbol?</P>

[Seomon]

Our primary role is to be a tank. All the rest matters not if I am a good tank and can hold agro. I started out as a Fighter. From there, I chose Crusader, and from there I chose Paladin. In all the descriptions, the main thing was to tank. The rest is just filler.

[joe2sgirl]

a Paladin is a hybrid class... we are not meant for one role ie tank heal and dps... we are meant for all .. be happy with what you are or play a different class

[Caphi2]

>a Paladin is a hybrid class... we are not meant for one role ie tank heal and dps... we are meant for all .. be happy with what you are or play a different classWrong. Paladins are NOT a "hybrid" in EQ2. EQ Live, yes. The whole "hybrid" concept was thrown out the window according to the Devs during development. All classes were designed from the ground up as complete classes. In fact, that philosophical rejection of "hybrid" theory was one of the only reasons I gave EQ2 a chance after the debacle that befell EQ1 paladins in the Gates of Discord expansion.Sadly, the longer forward we move in time since release, the less apparent that rejection becomes.<div></div>

[Faelgalad]

<P>Joe2sgirl, where was the "Hybrid" thing ever announced officially?</P> <P>I haven't found a single statement of SOE defining a Paladin as an half tank, half healer. And if they would do it, they would be rightfully accoused of misleading customers. As all official texts to Paladin from SOE gives an full tank impression. If my car seller writes "drives 150 km/h" then it has to drive 150 km/h and can't say "Sorry guys, you should have known this, so buy an other car".  </P> <P>If someone buys a Truck, and seller writes, "excel in carrying cargo" then it has to be 95% close to that. What would you do if he says "You should have known, it is no truck, it is a halftrack, bit familycar and a bit of an motorised bicyle". You would be say "cheating by false information". </P> <P>We are customers, give our money, and make our choice on the writings of the seller. This game is not an no-profit-be-happy-what-you-get thing. </P> <P>Situation: </P> <P>Most Paladin do Tank in Groups. </P> <P>A Minority is Maintank in Raids, 'cause gap to berserkers/guardians is to big. </P> <P>On Innovation Server, I know not a single MT-Raid Paladin doing T7, and T6 is nearly nonexistent. Being in the biggest guild, leading an Raid, I have a bit overview. </P>

[g0thiC_iCe_cReaM]

<P>i've tried other tank classes and i still preferr a paladin, i'll venture to say we're a great tank class...not to be conceeded, but i usually am complemented on my tanking with my pally</P> <P>it all depends on what you wanna do, if a pally doesn't play the way you want roll another class...i guess i'll just never get why people that play pallys are so vocal about their perception that we suck as a tank...i've pumped out 1000+ dps on raids before where i'm not MT...(surprisingly i ended up in the top 3 a few times)...and i've done pretty well as MT raiding or grouping...i'd rather solo with a pally than anything else (although my coercer is lots of fun)</P> <P>i think it really just comes down to some people just won't EVER be happy</P>

[OrcSlayer96]

<DIV>In most of the game i am happy with my paladin but even with that statement there are abilities that were promoted to us that have never worked as billed.  How useful you find Divine Favor as a death ward?  How does Divine Aura stack up to various other survival aa abilities in other classes?  How effective is the Hero line in EOF compared to the Wrath Healing or Support lines?  Are you happy that they made crafted mit symbols for only one tier and never went past that?  For me i love my class but i am frustrated at many items that either are ignored or like the case of the hooluk hat we wait 9 months for a fix.  I believe with some tweaking we can use our skills we have now and be much more effective tanking in raids without getting any mit buffs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You say that 66.6% will be [Removed for Content] off, i say it is the ones that are frustrated that the path to improve themselves better as a tank is either not there or so situational with 30 min recasts that it is not viable.  I am seeing better changes on the eof AA lines but they still need to rework some of it to make me feel we have true tanking AA's that are both useful and balanced.</DIV>

[Seomon]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> OrcSlayer96 wrote:<BR> <DIV>In most of the game i am happy with my paladin but even with that statement there are abilities that were promoted to us that have never worked as billed.  How useful you find Divine Favor as a death ward?  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>It actually saved me once. Seriously. I was duo'ing, and the named mob we were going after in POA was hitting like a truck. It was almost dead, maybe 5%, so I threw up Divine Favor, and actually lived through instead of insta-dying like normal.</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How does Divine Aura stack up to various other survival aa abilities in other classes?  How effective is the Hero line in EOF compared to the Wrath Healing or Support lines?  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>IMO, the 20% Block is a must in our new AAs. That's the only one that's a must, unless you play this class to not be a tank, and if so, then go away.</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Are you happy that they made crafted mit symbols for only one tier and never went past that?  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>There might be a reason behind that.</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For me i love my class but i am frustrated at many items that either are ignored or like the case of the hooluk hat we wait 9 months for a fix.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Wasn't that big of a deal, because you couldn't really get it until around 67-68 anyways, unless your guild took you to do everything, then it's around 65.</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I believe with some tweaking we can use our skills we have now and be much more effective tanking in raids without getting any mit buffs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Agreed, but also disagree. You'd have to break the sterotype that mit is better, and if someone has a higher mit, they will be better in everyone's eyes.</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You say that 66.6% will be [Removed for Content] off, i say it is the ones that are frustrated that the path to improve themselves better as a tank is either not there or so situational with 30 min recasts that it is not viable.  I am seeing better changes on the eof AA lines but they still need to rework some of it to make me feel we have true tanking AA's that are both useful and balanced.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Agreed.</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Majorminor]

<DIV>70% of stat's are made up</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/grin <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[OrcSlayer96]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Seomon wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> OrcSlayer96 wrote:<BR> <DIV>In most of the game i am happy with my paladin but even with that statement there are abilities that were promoted to us that have never worked as billed.  How useful you find Divine Favor as a death ward?  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>It actually saved me once. Seriously. I was duo'ing, and the named mob we were going after in POA was hitting like a truck. It was almost dead, maybe 5%, so I threw up Divine Favor, and actually lived through instead of insta-dying like normal.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ffcc>Same here, i worked one time in Nizari but the dot ending on me just before the last shred of health was what saved me on the divine aura.  It would be safe to assume for both us that the spell has not been effective more than it has been.  I still have the look that if you are going to keep the hate on me, stifle me for 12 secs and keep me dazed till damage has a chance to break the daze(which for me always seems to proc a root or snare on me) then i should have a full health heal being as i am helpless when the effects are on me.  Do away with the stifle/daze and i would accept the 1,400 health heal...<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How does Divine Aura stack up to various other survival aa abilities in other classes?  How effective is the Hero line in EOF compared to the Wrath Healing or Support lines?  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>IMO, the 20% Block is a must in our new AAs. That's the only one that's a must, unless you play this class to not be a tank, and if so, then go away.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ffcc>Don't misunderstand me on the post above, i think the 24% block chance maybe one of our most usefull tanking AA's we have available currently.  I meant that the Divine Aura AA is overpriced for what benefit you gain from it.  The devs think we are afraid of under 50% unmitigated damage when I am more worried about damage that does more than 25% of my max health mitigated.  They could change so much on this spell like reduce recast to at least 10 minutes, change the proccing of the stoneskin to the percentage above and still keep the 30 hits or 12 seconds rule.</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Are you happy that they made crafted mit symbols for only one tier and never went past that?  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>There might be a reason behind that.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ffcc>I am sure there is a reason, but stopping a item that i would say the majority of the paladins out there have from scaling up to higher tiers is fishy to me.  Not one place have i seen a post from a dev or somebody with why the items are not available in higher tiers.  The design of the tier 6 was thought out pretty well, if you wanted the mitigation gained you gave up alot on stats and health/power.  They could of tossed newer versions in tier 7 but nothing was done.  If a dev came out and said we made a mistake and tier 7 mit symbols are way down the line for you or we have no intention of putting them in it would be one thing, but to ignore the question for 9 months is another.</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For me i love my class but i am frustrated at many items that either are ignored or like the case of the hooluk hat we wait 9 months for a fix.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Wasn't that big of a deal, because you couldn't really get it until around 67-68 anyways, unless your guild took you to do everything, then it's around 65.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ffcc>The deal wasnt that we had early access to the helmet, the deal is that we had less effective mitigation on a class helmet for 9 months while other classes were fine.   Especially when we saw posts of countless items in the game that were redone one way or another while no reply for a simple fix on the helm.  Against higher end mobs in KOS the level 60-67 tag equals to roughly 30 mit or more that we never had.  May sound small but every piece of mit comes in handy on tougher fights and there was no reason it should of took this long on a fix.  </FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I believe with some tweaking we can use our skills we have now and be much more effective tanking in raids without getting any mit buffs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Agreed, but also disagree. You'd have to break the sterotype that mit is better, and if someone has a higher mit, they will be better in everyone's eyes.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ffcc>I agree, stereotype is hard to break, even harder when your alternatives to it are not optimized to take advantage of it.  I would think you would agree that after you make a reputation on your server people who know you look at what you as a player can do versus what the hype is about.  If your tanking abilities are limited due to abilities that are never tweaked it doesnt matter if you know you character inside and out.  Sure you will be better than a unskilled player but you are fighting not only stereotypes but skills that have not been ajdusted to the combat revamp.  Player skill is always our responsabilty, but the tweaking/adjustment needs to be done by the Devs. </FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You say that 66.6% will be [Removed for Content] off, i say it is the ones that are frustrated that the path to improve themselves better as a tank is either not there or so situational with 30 min recasts that it is not viable.  I am seeing better changes on the eof AA lines but they still need to rework some of it to make me feel we have true tanking AA's that are both useful and balanced.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Agreed.</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[beliker]

<div><blockquote><hr>Obfw Striker wrote:<div></div> <p>I think you hit the nail on the head. </p> <p>YET...........SOE has made Berserkers as good at tanking as Guardians - maybe better - and they have the highest dps of any fighter - looks like they have their cake and are eating it also.</p> <p>........and dont get me wrong Im not grousing about Berserkers - more power to them - just how about a little mitigation help for the Paladin - like where is our T7 mit symbol?</p><hr></blockquote>Thats because if you compare thier skills side by side, only like 5 are different, the rest are identical or [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] close. Ive played em both, and I think the guard has the better self buffs, but haven't played either in quite awhile (tuff life on pvp servers as a warrior)Now if a zerker could heal himself then you could compare him to a paladin =p</div>

[Seomon]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> OrcSlayer96 wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Are you happy that they made crafted mit symbols for only one tier and never went past that?  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>There might be a reason behind that.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ffcc>I am sure there is a reason, but stopping a item that i would say the majority of the paladins out there have from scaling up to higher tiers is fishy to me.  Not one place have i seen a post from a dev or somebody with why the items are not available in higher tiers.  The design of the tier 6 was thought out pretty well, if you wanted the mitigation gained you gave up alot on stats and health/power.  They could of tossed newer versions in tier 7 but nothing was done.  If a dev came out and said we made a mistake and tier 7 mit symbols are way down the line for you or we have no intention of putting them in it would be one thing, but to ignore the question for 9 months is another.</FONT></DIV> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>I think the reason behind it is that there's not a single bow out there, or something similar that the other fighters (minus SKs) can use in the ranged slot that will give them some mitigation. We're lucky we still have it, IMO.</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>