Raid Value

[Kaleyen]

Alright, so what would make it so that a Paladin would get 1 spot in a 24 man raid?  Right now we don't bring anything to the table that would justify bringing a Paladin over another class.  My intent is not to whine/complain/etc. With EoF around the cornor I want to see what it can offer with having an idea of what could make it useful to have a Paladin on a raid.<div></div>

[StormQueen]

<P>Let me see.</P> <P>Mit buff "Pledge" on tank? Oookaayy... so so. IF you are in main tank group. Which you won't often be.</P> <P>Full Rez every minute? Dirges/necros as well as healers can do rezzes.</P> <P>Single target wards on the MT? *cough* Shaman *cough*</P> <P>Heals? Group heals? mm.. any healer.</P> <P>AA lines for health regen and shorter self cast timer and that oh-so-uber ONE ATTACK ONLY group proc? Pffft.</P> <P>DPS? LOL. And Epics ignore half the effects on our best CAs (stun, anyone?)</P> <P>Group buffs? Yeah we buff wisdom and STR. So do other classes.</P> <P>Interceding the tank when he is looking like he is gonna drop? Well then you need another healer anyway. Or better DPS. Either way....</P> <P>One thing a Paladin DOES do well is redirect and fine tune aggro. If i was on my pally I could be backup to the off tank and take aggro if MT or OT went down. That we are best of all classes at doing, bar none. Amends on the right class, and carefully gauged taunts over time, and the loose mob comes straight to us.  </P> <P>Otherwise I am waiting for the EoF expansion to come out, and playing my Inquisitor as raid main.</P> <P> </P>

[Goejun]

What StormQueen said is so true. Paly steal room in raid because any class can do better in any department. Once you start the raid business you gonna be very sad about your character, like if u were cheating your guildmates. EoF AA are supposed to give us more DPS and faster healing, and the combat change coming should give us more power and DPS too..maybe it will help us for raiding.<div></div>

[Fellindar]

As posted above, Paladin agro control makes them a good choice as a secondary tank. Maintaining a steady level of agro just below the MT ensuring any loss of agro from the MT doesn't lead to the death of several mages etc. A Paladins toughness in combat combined with their healing and rez makes them usefull as combat medics, healing  people who get caught in AoE attacks and rezzing any who fall leaving the main healers free to keep the MT on his or her feet.<div></div>

[Kaleyen]

Like I mentioned, not a flame or a rant I just want to know if a guild is striving to do great things and they need every single person on that 24 man raid to be on top of things, why fill the role with a Paladin?Mit Buff- What T7 raid guild tank and off tank hasn't hit the cap on this?Rez's- Dirge/Necro is faster spell cast, faster recast and you don't need to go "find" the corpse to rez it, dirge also has an in combat group rezGroup heals- Fury's have a faster spell cast on theirs so by the time I get mine off group is fully healedThe one thing people fight over (a wizzy and a warlock) is amends, but it's single target only and a coercer(sp?) has something along the same lines that effects 2 targets but I'm not sure what % of a reducer it is.<div></div>

[Wulfborne]

<P>Some people in my guild were talking about this just last night. We had 2 paladins on the raid.</P> <P>I think outside of what is said above, our overall 'changeability' is what can make a paladin attractive to a raid force that really has any kind of 'situational awareness'. Try gathering together a group of 24 people. All must be on at the same time, all must stay at their keyboards for the duration of a several hour raid run, and not leave until that final boss mob is dead. 90% of the time, this just ain't gonna happen. People have to leave early due to RL issues, time constraints, food prep, yelling parents, screaming children, sheer boredom, arguments with fellow raiders, etc. All of a sudden, the only guildy available to take that healer's spot is...another scout. Hmm...</P> <P>Enter the paladin. With a paladin or two on a raid, you have "room to breathe". Sure we're jacks of all trades and masters of none, but with us around, the raid doesn't end because too many of a key class had to leave, or didn't show up to begin with. We can toss those wards and heals, until another person leaves and now a templar is available to come fill the gap. We can tank kthose mobs when due to a lag spike or burst mob dps the MT starts munching dirt. We can do respectable DPS when there are enough healers and tanks to sustain the backbone of the raid...</P> <P>We're flexible. Is that full of wow-factor, snap and pop? No, but it helps, and can save a raid.</P> <P>~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul</P>

[ChopStix]

<P>a paladin can be useful..  the paladins ward lets the healers catch up quicker on thier healing for sure, i notice as soon as i cast my ward the healers really light up on thier heals, and the tanks health recovery is way faster..  yes, IF YOU ARE JUST STARTING TO RAID, AND NOT OVERLY GEARED TO START RAIDING,a paladins mitigation buff is priceless on the main tank, and also the intercept.</P> <P> i think the resists on a geared out paladin are better than a beserker, so in my view a paladin could be better as a main tank,if aggro can be controlled, and a beserker go straght dps, if the beserkers geared up good you might throw amends on him and you pass aggro between you or  throw a warlock , troubador, in the main tank group, put amends on the warlock and you will not lose aggro, and your power will not be a problem, blast away...  </P> <P> </P> <P>as far as the dps goes, honestly i believe the guardians were percieved too soe to be the main tanks and the paladins to be the main assist because of both class's LACK of dps, and the beserkers were to be more of the offensive weapon. actually i believe they [soe] screwed up and made the beserker to strong, and i believe they will get a nerf  with the expansion.. if zerks get a nerf then what?or if the stat change i'm hearing about whats going on with the mitigation, a paladin might have to be a must have on a raid for the mit buff. i'm also hearing someting with the aa's a paladin might get involving a kite shield specific aa, just have to wait and see i guess..</P> <P>honestly that is why i re-rolled a beserker, and i can say things are quite different with a beserker, too the point you would be completely in awe compared to the paladin. as it stands now from grouping with a guardian consistantly, and also a geared beserker.. the beserker class are dps and aggro machines...   </P> <P> </P> <P>also turn the the tide and put the paladin as the main tank, and the beserker as the assist.. if your paladin is geared up good enough with armor that you can tank an epicX4 and your in good with your guild/raid leaders, ask them to let you tank one of the trash mobs and see how you do, tell them you want some practice at it, put a hammering wizard or warlock in your group or run a parser on a couple of fights and put the highest dps in your raid group and put amends on that person.. start with a taunt and a couple of melee hits and do sigil of heroism, and you shouldnt ever lose aggro if you periodicly throw a taunt in,,, most will let you try, and if they are wanting to be a great raid guild they will, and they might be suprised.... all the raids i've been on i have mostly been in the main tank group, and i've also saved the main tank so many times i cant count, and i've also saved entire raids before when the tank has went down a few times and i took over the tanking position until the main got back up,the raid might not see it but i know the main tank does, and he has commented on my abitlites as a main assist, this guy knows the game good, and that tells me i'm playing my roll pretty good..</P> <P> </P> <P>i also know a paladin can tank almost as well as any other class, where we fall sort is our mitigation though, the guardian and besrker, if they pick the wisdom line aa and load up on the 4th ability they will always have more mitigation than an equally geared paladin which isn't right in my opinion..either the paladins defensive buff needs to be adjusted or we need a mitigation AA ability, an aa ability that stands out like the beserker, and guardians stamina line, and the wisdom line's 4th ability which add's mitigation and the 5th in that line that cancel's all downfalls of the offensive, and defensive stance.[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] give a paladin that and we would be the tank of all tanks also!  just change the buckler to IF kite shield equipped, a paladin would look funny with a buckler!!</P> <P>all in all, i have to say compared to a guardian or beserker the paladin needs adjustments to even out the tank class's or nerf one of the other tank class's [cough,beserker,cough] to even it out ,or move the paladin to the priest class, and give him bigger, faster heals that use less power, a bigger ward,and a faster recast on the incombat rez! and do away with the paladins taunts..</P><p>Message Edited by ChopStix on <span class=date_text>11-02-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:49 AM</span>

[Mantell]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wulfborne wrote:<BR> <P>Some people in my guild were talking about this just last night. We had 2 paladins on the raid.</P> <P>I think outside of what is said above, our overall 'changeability' is what can make a paladin attractive to a raid force that really has any kind of 'situational awareness'. Try gathering together a group of 24 people. All must be on at the same time, all must stay at their keyboards for the duration of a several hour raid run, and not leave until that final boss mob is dead. 90% of the time, this just ain't gonna happen. People have to leave early due to RL issues, time constraints, food prep, yelling parents, screaming children, sheer boredom, arguments with fellow raiders, etc. All of a sudden, the only guildy available to take that healer's spot is...another scout. Hmm...</P> <P>Enter the paladin. With a paladin or two on a raid, you have "room to breathe". Sure we're jacks of all trades and masters of none, but with us around, the raid doesn't end because too many of a key class had to leave, or didn't show up to begin with. We can toss those wards and heals, until another person leaves and now a templar is available to come fill the gap. We can tank kthose mobs when due to a lag spike or burst mob dps the MT starts munching dirt. We can do respectable DPS when there are enough healers and tanks to sustain the backbone of the raid...</P> <P>We're flexible. Is that full of wow-factor, snap and pop? No, but it helps, and can save a raid.</P> <P>~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Wulfborne has it right. What we add is versatility. We can tank if we have to. When there is a need for another healer, we're that other healer.  We can rez pretty well. We have a very nice emergency heal that can't be interrupted and costs no power. Our ward isn't the best ward in the game, but it stacks with the healer wards and it recasts really fast. When there is a need for more DPS we do 500-600 against a single target and 600-800 against a group (if we don't have to heal).  We buff mitigation, strength and wisdom while doing all this. We have a divine proc that we put on the whole group that seems to go off quite a lot too. Everyone has something like that but most mobs don't seem to resist divine.</P> <P>You can get this from different classes, sure, but you we do all this and only take up one spot in the raid and we can switch on the fly. It takes me 5 seconds to go from DPS mode to healing mode and 5 seconds to go from there to tanking.</P> <P>We pretty much always have a Paladin in the MT group for the mit buff and the extra healing. Usually we have at least one more who does DPS, healing people besides the MT and spot-rezzing.</P> <P> </P>

[hawsecav19d]

<DIV>I think its the versitility we bring to raid that makes us needed. I getting to be armor junky I got 3 full sets and about 20 pieces of jewelry that I swap in and out depending on what job I am doing or what the group make up is for buff stats. If I am in tank mode I get my best Mit gear on and swap my jewelry around till I am at 480ish str sta wis self buffed. If I am trying to dps bring out 2handers swap gear and get about 480 Str Sta Int and drop mid to about 3k and crank about 700dps. Healing I swap out Armor to Str Sta Wis again and put on best power jewery and FT items. No other class can change themselves around and be suitable tank adverage dps and ok backup healer like a Pally can.</DIV>

[Daydeee]

Be the raid leader...:smileywink:

[Illustrious]

<P>There are several classes that are not absolutely "required" on a raid, Pally/Sk and Monk/Briuser spring to mind but im sure theres plenty of others also.  In fact obviously so when PvP guilds manage to raid ok with just half of the available archeotypes.</P> <P> </P> <P>Anyways pally do still add something to a raid, they are good MA and can get aggro fast on a tank wipe and take a fair beating themselves, can MT if required to a reasonable level and are arguably the best MT on mobs that do total mana drains on the tank, they can also heal a little, rezz a little and dps a little.</P> <P> </P> <P>There is a saying, pretty corny but something like "jack of all trades but master of none" i think this description applies well to  pally, no they are not "required" if you have a good tank, enough healers and rezzers and enough dps but having a Pally in any raidforce isnt going to break it either.</P>

[Fatuus]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> StormQueen wrote:<BR> <P>Let me see.</P> <P>Mit buff "Pledge" on tank? Oookaayy... so so. IF you are in main tank group. Which you won't often be.</P> <P>Full Rez every minute? Dirges/necros as well as healers can do rezzes.</P> <P>Single target wards on the MT? *cough* Shaman *cough*</P> <P>Heals? Group heals? mm.. any healer.</P> <P>AA lines for health regen and shorter self cast timer and that oh-so-uber ONE ATTACK ONLY group proc? Pffft.</P> <P>DPS? LOL. And Epics ignore half the effects on our best CAs (stun, anyone?)</P> <P>Group buffs? Yeah we buff wisdom and STR. So do other classes.</P> <P>Interceding the tank when he is looking like he is gonna drop? Well then you need another healer anyway. Or better DPS. Either way....</P> <P>One thing a Paladin DOES do well is redirect and fine tune aggro. If i was on my pally I could be backup to the off tank and take aggro if MT or OT went down. That we are best of all classes at doing, bar none. Amends on the right class, and carefully gauged taunts over time, and the loose mob comes straight to us.  </P> <P>Otherwise I am waiting for the EoF expansion to come out, and playing my Inquisitor as raid main.</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Just wanted to give props to Storm on something very few paladins get in regards to our usefulness. I have posted repeatedly that I am often in the Wiz/Caster group so if I need to snag aggro quickly...its very easy to do so with my Sigil ability. Warlocks and Wizards will also do much more DPS then they normally would have been able to with your amends on them...which allows you to do other things for the raid like rez patrol and healing while STILL getting aggro built up in case you need to take over on tanking.</P> <P>Lastly, the big thing people still forget about on differences between Guardians and Pallies isn't mitigation....240 mitigation means not that much of a difference endgame when you have over 6500 mit. When I was helping tank Tarinax it was easy for me to get that type of aggro. Its the guardians ability to flat out absorb damage occasionally that makes them shine as a raid tank...especially against mobs that have an AOE knockback.</P> <P>Storm had it on the money with our ability to control and direct aggro better. The other thing we are awesome at is getting aggro on mobs that have memwipes (Vyeme comes to my mind). Just before I know when a memwipe will occur, I'll cast Sigil of Heroism on and will automatically get aggro no matter what I am doing right after a memwipe due to the fact I am drawing 32% of my entire groups hate to me (if you are in a group with 4 casters thats a lot of hate). Sigil can be cast ANYWHERE and you can get aggro from FAR distances from the mob. The guardians reinforcement which in some respects is stronger...requires them to be within MELEE range to get and take aggro.</P><p>Message Edited by Fatuus on <span class=date_text>11-03-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:53 AM</span>

[Mgunner]

<P>Paladins are useful in fights where you need multiple tanks. 3 Princes, Chel'drak, and Matron come to mind. Granted, these are not targets of average guilds.  Even Vyemm you only need one tank. Tarinax is easier if you have 2 tanks. We are more in the role of "just in case".  Of course, with the exception of 3P, you use any old tank, preferably a serker since they do DPS. I'm not sure SK's even do enough DPS. I know I can almost match them.</P> <P>Here's what they can do to make us useful. Adjust our Amends. 41% I think it is at master level on one target. They should make it scale down and allow us to use it on multiple targets. </P> <P>For example,</P> <P>41% on one target,</P> <P>20% on 2 seperate targets,</P> <P>13% on each of 3 targets.</P> <P> </P>

[holypaladin28]

<DIV>okay i dont raid alot but when i raided the epic angler meathooks that thing in nek castle.  vision of vox i tanked all of them and did fine..  i hvae also done raids where i was not tank and saved the raid a few times from wipes. </DIV> <DIV> ward on the tank just to help the healer catch up.</DIV> <DIV>  LOH at the last second rescue when the tank dropped.  </DIV> <DIV>my group heal amost always hits for 950-1300 when it crits</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>the thing with pallys is our stats are all useful for different setups</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>MT health MIT resists depending onthe mob</DIV> <DIV>MA more STR INT AGI for dps and spells and agi for lessing the chance a mob hits you</DIV> <DIV>just in the raid as a class.  max STR INT again the DPS</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i am on a pvp server which means my pvp set up isnt even close for raiding and grouping for PVE i have my resists capped at 80 percent and have very little dps i need my group for that</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>what i do do is carry four full sets of gear on me</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>PVP MT MA and just tag along gear.  having the gear to give you any edge always makes it easier </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Jayad]

<P>You use pallies in raids for:</P> <UL> <LI>Mitigation buff in MT group if MT doesn't have enough (newer raiding guilds)</LI> <LI>Tank in ST group or OT group (with 2 healers they can take adds & mobs running loose).  Some fights more or less require another tank group and it's a good fit.</LI> <LI>Rezzing (sure other classes have it but you need *some*)</LI> <LI>Amends (enables 1 caster dps type)</LI> <LI>Ghetto ward/heals & dps - every bit would help</LI></UL> <P>There's only so many slots for another tank/util type but they do have their role.</P>

[lavasoul]

<DIV>What I see in EOF is you either choose a path of being a support tank where you shine your MT boots and be his squire or you get abit more DPS. As for anything that give us some better tanking ability for raid mob within our tier its none.</DIV>

[ChopStix]

<P>thats the way i see it, also, i wasnt in beta but looking at the skill options we get, with the added factor of the mitigation adjustment.. i think i might have to go pure MA setup, we have 2 guardians at level 66, and 3 pallies at 70-69-61 so we might have to focus on leveling the gaurdians up and trying to get them some gear...  have to wait and see..</P> <P> </P> <P> i would like some solid information before i buy the expansion though... as this game might be a wash with no tanks in game!!!</P> <P> </P>

[Domiuk]

<P>There are 6 types of tanks.</P> <P>A 24 man raid carrying more than 3 or 4 tanks is going to lose efficiency.</P> <P>Paladins are more than capable of filing up to 2 of the 4 possible slots, however so are SKs, Guards, Zerkers and even Monk and Bruisers.</P> <P>Players Skill and gear in general is more important than the class.</P> <P>We tend to run With Paladin, Guardian MT group, Berzerker , SK MA/OT  group.</P> <P>With this setup the Paladin is actually usually the MT and fairly simple to switch to Guard for very tough single mobs where the guard has a slight advantage.</P> <P>All 4 of the plate tanks can hold agro on a single target well and survive against all but the absolute toughest of mobs, where the fractional edge the warriors get comes in.</P> <P>Paladins ability to hold agro is about as good as it gets, tanking is not just about incoming damage and I for one do not think the balance is anywhere near as bad as some people think.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Silverpaws]

<div><blockquote><hr>Kaleyen wrote:Like I mentioned, not a flame or a rant I just want to know if a guild is striving to do great things and they need every single person on that 24 man raid to be on top of things, why fill the role with a Paladin?Mit Buff- What T7 raid guild tank and off tank hasn't hit the cap on this?<font color="#ff0000"> After GU 29, no one will be capped.  Mit decreases for a semi fabled paladin (me) from upper 60s to mid 50s.  You will be needed to mitigate again.  Now if they just made it across raid....</font>Rez's- Dirge/Necro is faster spell cast, faster recast and you don't need to go "find" the corpse to rez it, dirge also has an in combat group rezGroup heals- Fury's have a faster spell cast on theirs so by the time I get mine off group is fully healedThe one thing people fight over (a wizzy and a warlock) is amends, but it's single target only and a coercer(sp?) has something along the same lines that effects 2 targets but I'm not sure what % of a reducer it is. <font color="#ff0000">As secondary tank on most raids, I need the warlock for aggro control.  Amends is give and take, and I take as much as I can.  The coercer is normally in the tank group, or the caster group.</font><div></div><hr></blockquote></div>

[FlintAH]

New AAs and combat changes will make us significantly more valuable.  +700 group mit to non tanks.  More heals, faster wards.  Pledge is incredibly important now.  Mitigation is very hard to get anywhere near the cap atm.<div></div>

[MeridianR]

<div><blockquote><hr>FlintAH wrote:New AAs and combat changes will make us significantly more valuable.  +700 group mit to non tanks.  More heals, faster wards.  Pledge is incredibly important now.  Mitigation is very hard to get anywhere near the cap atm.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Ummm, why do non tanks need mitigation, if they are not tanking?  Nobody else except tanks should be getting hit, and +700 mitigation is like 2-3% at max.It's worthless, and just another step in the 'support tank' role.</div>

[Rarlin]

<blockquote><hr>MeridianR wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>FlintAH wrote:New AAs and combat changes will make us significantly more valuable.  +700 group mit to non tanks.  More heals, faster wards.  Pledge is incredibly important now.  Mitigation is very hard to get anywhere near the cap atm.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Ummm, why do non tanks need mitigation, if they are not tanking?  Nobody else except tanks should be getting hit, and +700 mitigation is like 2-3% at max.It's worthless, and just another step in the 'support tank' role.</div><hr></blockquote>Yeah,But what happens when your Druid takes aggro when they're DPSing Epicx4?  See, this is truly the best thing that has ever happened to Paladins!  /sarcasm off<div></div>

[Squelch]

No one mentions Resolute Faith. Have you ever parsed this yourself while you have it on the MT. At master level it goes off a hell of alot. In the ACT parse you'll see "YOU Block" "YOU Avoid" ect. On the MT. Parse a fight and look at all incomming damage on the MT and you'll see.

[MeridianR]

<div><blockquote><hr>Squelch wrote:<div></div>No one mentions Resolute Faith. Have you ever parsed this yourself while you have it on the MT. At master level it goes off a hell of alot. In the ACT parse you'll see "YOU Block" "YOU Avoid" ect. On the MT. Parse a fight and look at all incomming damage on the MT and you'll see.<hr></blockquote>I haven't been in the MT group (unless I am MTing) in months, there is NO reason whatsoever to put a Crusader in the MT group in a raid guild who has been raiding KoS for more then a month.Typical MT group setup:GuardianDefilerTemplarWardenCoercerSwashieWi th changing out a Dirge for the Warden if needed, or an Assassin for a Swashie.My typical OT group setup:PaladinMysticTemplarSwashieCoercerBruiserIn this case, the avoid buff from the Bruiser works pretty decent....but with the proper use of Intercede, it doesn't really matter.....for that matter a lot of people totally forget about Intercede, when in fact it is a killer skill.</div>

[Rarlin]

<div><blockquote><hr>MeridianR wrote:<div><b>In this case, the avoid buff from the Bruiser works pretty decent....but with the proper use of Intercede, it doesn't really matter.....for that matter a lot of <font size="5">people totally forget about Intercede, when in fact it is a killer skill.</font></b><font size="5"></font></div><hr></blockquote>Amen</div>

[FlintAH]

<div><blockquote><hr>MeridianR wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>FlintAH wrote:New AAs and combat changes will make us significantly more valuable.  +700 group mit to non tanks.  More heals, faster wards.  Pledge is incredibly important now.  Mitigation is very hard to get anywhere near the cap atm.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Ummm, why do non tanks need mitigation, if they are not tanking?  Nobody else except tanks should be getting hit, and +700 mitigation is like 2-3% at max.It's worthless, and just another step in the 'support tank' role.</div><hr></blockquote>If you arent in the MT group it is a big help to the people in your group when you have unavoidable aes.  Your mit and resists are cut in half almost across the board for everyone, making paladins useful in both groups.</div>

[MeridianR]

I don't recall 1 raid mob with an unavoidable AE (which would have to be trauma for mitigation to help out, sort of like Wrath of Fury, etc) that couldn't be cured, or wasn't distance based (Matron, Chel'drak)<div></div>

[Silverpaws]

I only use intercede cuz I have a sexy hotkey for raiding.Seriously tho, its one of our best abilties when not main tank.  Almost no aggro, and at Master 1  intercedes 100% of damage.  The refresh timer is pretty good without the new AA, and with more than one pally casting it in rotation, it can save enormously on damage spikes.  I also throw it up on a non tank when pet pulling, surveil, or just plain old over aggroing.  Save a pally, ride a guardian....<div></div>

[MeridianR]

<div><blockquote><hr>Silverpaws wrote:I only use intercede cuz I have a sexy hotkey for raiding.Seriously tho, its one of our best abilties when not main tank.  Almost no aggro, and at Master 1  intercedes 100% of damage.  The refresh timer is pretty good without the new AA, and with more than one pally casting it in rotation, it can save enormously on damage spikes.  I also throw it up on a non tank when pet pulling, surveil, or just plain old over aggroing.  Save a pally, ride a guardian....<div></div><hr></blockquote>Every class gets intercede <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />When I would OT, normally my amends target would be a Bruiser (add a Coercer and get a tasty 98% dps mod...mmm mmm good) - and he would cycle intercede on me when I might have got some spike damage....it is also great to say, save a Rogue who might have got aggro.</div>

[Mantell]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Silverpaws wrote:<BR>I only use intercede cuz I have a sexy hotkey for raiding.<BR><BR>Seriously tho, its one of our best abilties when not main tank.  Almost no aggro, and at Master 1  intercedes 100% of damage.  The refresh timer is pretty good without the new AA, and with more than one pally casting it in rotation, it can save enormously on damage spikes.  I also throw it up on a non tank when pet pulling, surveil, or just plain old over aggroing.  <BR><BR>Save a pally, ride a guardian....<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Try this...</P> <P>Cast Intercede on the tank before the pull and then immediately cast Devotion on yourself.</P> <P>You take the first hit and are warded against it. You're pre-warding the tank without all the danger of taking aggro.</P>

[MeridianR]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>DarthKerwin wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Silverpaws wrote:I only use intercede cuz I have a sexy hotkey for raiding.Seriously tho, its one of our best abilties when not main tank.  Almost no aggro, and at Master 1  intercedes 100% of damage.  The refresh timer is pretty good without the new AA, and with more than one pally casting it in rotation, it can save enormously on damage spikes.  I also throw it up on a non tank when pet pulling, surveil, or just plain old over aggroing.  Save a pally, ride a guardian.... <div></div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>Try this...</p> <p>Cast Intercede on the tank before the pull and then immediately cast Devotion on yourself.</p> <p>You take the first hit and are warded against it. You're pre-warding the tank without all the danger of taking aggro.</p><hr></blockquote>Even better, have yourself pre-warded with Shaman wards, have reactives on yourself - and then do that</div><p>Message Edited by MeridianR on <span class=date_text>11-07-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:02 PM</span>