Before pull

[Quda]

<DIV>Question.  </DIV> <DIV>When your about to tank a hard encounter, labs names for example.  Does your healers buff/ward/do anything before pull?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I ask this because I have noticed that sometimes I feel like I am stuck out there for the first couple of hits and the healers spam heals to catch up my health.  God help me if I get hit with ice comet or a hard hitting spell that does 19k damage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If I know I am going to pull something hard, I may self ward, but that isnt that strong.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So what does your healers do? Do they pull aggro right off the bat when you pull?</DIV>

[TheBu]

<P>aw.. yea..</P> <P>It apears to me the MT get bigger and have little shields around them.  o yea the mt yells something like "Buff me!" sometime the healers follow the mt and keep them in buff range... So yea create ur "buff me!" macro...  </P> <P>now if ur refering to non raids.. and lower lvls it really depends on the healer, ther type and type of pull.</P> <P>you said something about agro? u should have that most the time.  or they may not want buff u. How u pull?</P>

[khufure]

<div><blockquote><hr>Quda44 wrote:<div>Question.  </div> <div>When your about to tank a hard encounter, labs names for example.  Does your healers buff/ward/do anything before pull?</div> <div> </div> <div>I ask this because I have noticed that sometimes I feel like I am stuck out there for the first couple of hits and the healers spam heals to catch up my health.  God help me if I get hit with ice comet or a hard hitting spell that does 19k damage.</div> <div> </div> <div>If I know I am going to pull something hard, I may self ward, but that isnt that strong.</div> <div> </div> <div>So what does your healers do? Do they pull aggro right off the bat when you pull?</div><hr></blockquote>MT should indicate if he wants heals on before pull or not.  Typically this can be done with spamming 'HEALS ON' type messages.  Generally its a bad idea because some big monster will eat your healers over the course of a raid.  For trash and most named you don't need pre-heals.Exception to the rule - if you aren't geared well and/or experienced you will need to pre-ward yourself and have the healers in process on casting.  Try to time it so that your taunts get out before the shaman & templar heals are cast.  You'll get better with practice and gear.  Fights that are a struggle now are a joke later <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Quda]

<P>Was just curious, if a healer wards me before pull, and I body pull, the mob takes after the  healer, and doesn't even look at me.  Depending on the situation, and how close the mobs are, I have to wait until the mob is out of socail agro range before I am able to taunt.  Since I have some good taunts, I have no problem in getting control of the situation.  But I hate it when the mob runs straight for the healer before I can taunt.  And no, the healer is not spam healing me right on pull, it is the ward he put on me.  We tested this in labs last night.  Wards me, and the mob goes staight for the healer before I can taunt, no wards and I have no problems, but more vulnerable.</P> <P>I was just curious if we was doing something wrong.</P> <P>The how to tank is a good guide, but I think we need a advanced version, one that includes interaction with the other members in the group.</P>

[Boethius_Permafrost]

I give a "10 second" warning on the pull, then I pull with encounter taunt.  We set up to ensure that I am within heal range at all times.  (Typically, I am not the main tank, but the same applies to MT; and for encounter named, I often take the initial hits, which is your point of concern.)<div></div>

[Caetrel]

The timing is tricky, but generally you want nothing before the pull, and everything asap after the pull. If you self ward and no one wards you or reactives you, you will get a free aggro snag on the encounter the first time you are hit.  As a pally, you must self ward before a hard pull.  If you have a shaman ward or cleric reactive on you when you pull, that healer will get eaten by any mob that isn't in your Righteousness taunt range.  The first mob to hit you will generate hate on the healer to other mobs in the encounter and they will pounce unless you can generate more hate very quickly. Now, if you self ward and it's a single mob, you can pull with a reactive on you.  Your ward will give you 1300 on the first hit, your cleric's reactive will proc once on that first hit if it goes thru the ward.  A shaman would never, ever ward you prepull.   The shammy m1 ward is only 300 more than the pally ward anyway.  Bolster is a different story, you should always have that on you before you pull, just be careful that the mystic doesn't cast it *as you are pulling* or they are dead meat.  In general, healers should begin healing you as soon as the mobs you pull begin moving towards you...by the time the 2 second casting times resolve you should have aggro.  There are exceptions to this, but they have got to get heals running asap. The biggest concern pulling raid mobs, and the most common mistake I have seen new MTs make, is to throw their encounter taunt too early so that it does not tag all the mobs in an encounter.  As long as you time your AOE taunt well you'll get all the mobs, and of course we have it easy as pallies with AOEs.  If an encounter is isolated/ there are no social mobs around, you can pull with decree, drop relentless conviction as they move in, and then encounter taunt.  Paladins are prolly the best pullers of all the plate tanks between the self ward and Decree. <div></div>

[Quda]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Caetrel wrote:<BR>The timing is tricky, but generally you want nothing before the pull, and everything asap after the pull.<BR><BR>If you self ward and no one wards you or reactives you, you will get a free aggro snag on the encounter the first time you are hit.  As a pally, you must self ward before a hard pull.  If you have a shaman ward or cleric reactive on you when you pull, that healer will get eaten by any mob that isn't in your Righteousness taunt range.  The first mob to hit you will generate hate on the healer to other mobs in the encounter and they will pounce unless you can generate more hate very quickly.<BR><BR>Now, if you self ward and it's a single mob, you can pull with a reactive on you.  Your ward will give you 1300 on the first hit, your cleric's reactive will proc once on that first hit if it goes thru the ward.  A shaman would never, ever ward you prepull.   The shammy m1 ward is only 300 more than the pally ward anyway.  Bolster is a different story, you should always have that on you before you pull, just be careful that the mystic doesn't cast it *as you are pulling* or they are dead meat.  <BR><BR>In general, healers should begin healing you as soon as the mobs you pull begin moving towards you...by the time the 2 second casting times resolve you should have aggro.  There are exceptions to this, but they have got to get heals running asap.<BR><BR>The biggest concern pulling raid mobs, and the most common mistake I have seen new MTs make, is to throw their encounter taunt too early so that it does not tag all the mobs in an encounter.  As long as you time your AOE taunt well you'll get all the mobs, and of course we have it easy as pallies with AOEs.  If an encounter is isolated/ there are no social mobs around, you can pull with decree, drop relentless conviction as they move in, and then encounter taunt.  Paladins are prolly the best pullers of all the plate tanks between the self ward and Decree.<BR><BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Thank you, this was exactly what I was looking for.  I thought I was doing something wrong when a healer wards be during a pull and the mobs take after him.  I love it when they time the ward right when I get within aggro range.  I didn't feel comfortable in telling the healer he was doing something wrong, because after all, isn't  he suppose to know his own class.  I have noticed our class has the most interaction with what each other class does and how they work.  With amends, knowing which classes are aoe vs. single.  And now with how the healers should react to a pull.

[Seidhkona]

I prefer for the MT to give a "%T Incoming in 5 seconds" warning.  I then cast my paladin ward (Devotion) on the MT and usually Intercede (intercepts the first hit on the MT so I take the damage instead), and the healers cast their stuff.  When the particle effects from the casts fade, the tank counts 5 and then issues the message "%T incoming NOW" or something similar. If there is a little gap between the preward/buff and the pull, then the mobs don't run up and eat the healers. The wards and the Intercede take the big hit off the MT - you do get some bad hits pulling the thing back to where you want to position it for fighting.  If you've got a paladin that has good Devotion and Intercede, you might experiment with having a mystic put a ward on the pally, then have the pally do Devotion/Intercept on you, and that lets you all survive the pull better. <div></div>

[RaistNA]

<DIV>the 5 second rule is emperial.  Basically most of their wards/reactives have 30 second times.  Pull atleast 5 seconds after they have casted them on u.  Same goes for bolster.  Then ull be fine with agro.  The 5 seconds will insure the agro from these wards/reactives will have worn off a little, giving you better agro on the pull.</DIV>