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gachamann

10-23-2006, 04:40 PM

I haven't had much experience grouping with Mezzers, but it's starting ot happen with regularity so I better get my ducks straight. I know that Taunt and Group Taunt doesn't break Mez/Charm. But someone told me that it seemed like using a taunt on a mob shortened the mez time. If this is the case, obviously I wouldn't want to use my group taunt while MT'ing in that situation until I'm ready to fight that mezzed creature. I'm curious if anyone else can tell me if this might be true? If not, I'll keep taunting away regardless. Can someone please list all the classes that can Mez/Charm? I'd rather know straight off when a group forms. Also, I received Sigil of Heroism not long ago, which transfers some hate from all group members to the Pally (I guess a shortened version of group amends is what it seems to be). Does this affect mobs in any way, or affect anything outside the group encounter, or is it totally passive?- Ravynn<div></div>

MeridianR

10-23-2006, 05:09 PM

Taunts do nothing to break, shorten, or do anything to mezzes.....UNLESS they have a DOT attached to them, but Paladins do not.Classes the can mez, to the best of my knowledge are:-- Coercer-- Illusionist-- Troubador-- Swashbuckler-- Wizard (though they use this very rarely)Sigil of Heroism, also has nothing that effects mez at all. Even AE's that do not directly target the mob that is mezzed won't break mez, unless it has a dot attached to it, but not many people AE when stuff is mezzed.<div></div>

Fatuus

10-23-2006, 05:37 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> gachamann wrote: I haven't had much experience grouping with Mezzers, but it's starting ot happen with regularity so I better get my ducks straight. I know that Taunt and Group Taunt doesn't break Mez/Charm. But someone told me that it seemed like using a taunt on a mob shortened the mez time. If this is the case, obviously I wouldn't want to use my group taunt while MT'ing in that situation until I'm ready to fight that mezzed creature. I'm curious if anyone else can tell me if this might be true? If not, I'll keep taunting away regardless. Can someone please list all the classes that can Mez/Charm? I'd rather know straight off when a group forms. Also, I received Sigil of Heroism not long ago, which transfers some hate from all group members to the Pally (I guess a shortened version of group amends is what it seems to be). Does this affect mobs in any way, or affect anything outside the group encounter, or is it totally passive? - Ravynn <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Our taunts don't normally break mez BUT they can if there is a dot proc placed on you that does any spell damage. I have had mobs break mez when someone placed a proc dot on me that went off when I did my taunt combat art. Be mindful of who you have in your group and what buffs are on you. Another important factor to remember when dealing with mezzers is that your group taunt will not build aggro towards you with that target when they are mezzed UNLESS you target them specifically before using your group taunt.

Seidhkona

10-23-2006, 08:01 PM

<blockquote><hr>MeridianR wrote:Taunts do nothing to break, shorten, or do anything to mezzes.....UNLESS they have a DOT attached to them, but Paladins do not.<hr></blockquote>Some of our taunts do Divine debuffs as well however. <ul> <li>50 - Zealous Preaching - Encounter AE threat increase + divine debuff</li> <li>64 - Righteousness - Encounter AE threat increase + divine debuff</li> </ul> I dunno if these hose up a mezz or not. We also have a couple of attacks that do DOTS: <ul> <li>55 - Consecrate - AE divine damage DOT</li> <li>56 Zealous Strike - Divine damage + Divine DOT</li> <li>70 - Devout Strike - Divine damage + Divine DOT</li> </ul> <div></div>

Fatuus

10-23-2006, 08:08 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Seidhkona wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MeridianR wrote: Taunts do nothing to break, shorten, or do anything to mezzes.....UNLESS they have a DOT attached to them, but Paladins do not. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Some of our taunts do Divine debuffs as well however. <UL> <LI>50 - Zealous Preaching - Encounter AE threat increase + divine debuff</LI> <LI>64 - Righteousness - Encounter AE threat increase + divine debuff</LI></UL>I dunno if these hose up a mezz or not. We also have a couple of attacks that do DOTS: <UL> <LI>55 - Consecrate - AE divine damage DOT</LI> <LI>56 Zealous Strike - Divine damage + Divine DOT</LI> <LI>70 - Devout Strike - Divine damage + Divine DOT</LI></UL> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Consecrate is NOT a dot. A dot is a spell that is cast ON a mob that causes it to constantly hit a mob. Consecrate is perfectly safe to use around Mezzed mobs, just not dazed ones. If your curious to what the difference is, dazed mobs are essentially stunned until they receive some damage OR the spell expires. Debuffs do not break mezzes. The only way a debuff can break mez is if you have a proc dot cast on you for either your combat arts or spell line casts. Hexes and debuffs should be cast before breaking mezes on tough mobs.

TheBu

10-23-2006, 10:39 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MeridianR wrote: Taunts do nothing to break, shorten, or do anything to mezzes.....UNLESS they have a DOT attached to them, but Paladins do not. Classes the can mez, to the best of my knowledge are: -- Coercer -- Illusionist -- Troubador -- Swashbuckler -- Wizard (though they use this very rarely) Sigil of Heroism, also has nothing that effects mez at all. Even AE's that do not directly target the mob that is mezzed won't break mez, unless it has a dot attached to it, but not many people AE when stuff is mezzed. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Encounter aoe "green" will not break some mezs unless directly targeted. I am not sure that all mezs have the line "prevents aoe (except when directed)" I think the other aoes will break the mez

Fatuus

10-23-2006, 11:27 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TheBuzZ wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MeridianR wrote: Taunts do nothing to break, shorten, or do anything to mezzes.....UNLESS they have a DOT attached to them, but Paladins do not. Classes the can mez, to the best of my knowledge are: -- Coercer -- Illusionist -- Troubador -- Swashbuckler -- Wizard (though they use this very rarely) Sigil of Heroism, also has nothing that effects mez at all. Even AE's that do not directly target the mob that is mezzed won't break mez, unless it has a dot attached to it, but not many people AE when stuff is mezzed. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Encounter aoe "green" will not break some mezs unless directly targeted. I am not sure that all mezs have the line "prevents aoe (except when directed)" I think the other aoes will break the mez <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Spells are often very bugged in this regard and what happens. Green and blue spells (encounter versus true AOE spells) are not supposed to affect mobs that ARE mezzed. However, some spells (including some red "single target" spells) are prone to breaking mezes due to bad dev programing. They are numerous, but in regards to paladins the ONLY spell that can break mez (again unless we have a proc dot on us and we are doing a debuff) is the proc from the Devout Strike line of spells.

Dwergux

10-24-2006, 03:05 AM

<blockquote><hr>MeridianR wrote:Taunts do nothing to break, shorten, or do anything to mezzes.....UNLESS they have a DOT attached to them, but Paladins do not.Classes the can mez, to the best of my knowledge are:-- Coercer-- Illusionist-- Troubador-- Swashbuckler-- Wizard (though they use this very rarely)Sigil of Heroism, also has nothing that effects mez at all. Even AE's that do not directly target the mob that is mezzed won't break mez, unless it has a dot attached to it, but not many people AE when stuff is mezzed.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Only time a paladin taunt can break a mez is when you have a spell proc item or buff going. If you do there is a chance of proccing and thus breaking mez with the damage of the proc. (Same goes for non damage debuffs proccing)Possible proc buffs are: Aria of Exclamation (bard song)Dynamism (Illusionist buff)Bone clasped Girdle (item)Taunts do no shorten the duration of a mez.Message Edited by Dwergux on 10-24-2006 01:07 AM

OrcSlayer96

10-24-2006, 03:29 AM

<DIV>I have lost track of the amount of times i have grouped with a illisionist or coercer and they assumed i was going to open up with a aoe. There must be alot of tanks out there that either are ignorant or ignore that if you open up on mobs with your two taunts instead of damage spells, you allow your friendly neighborhood mezzer to lock their mobs down. After that unleash your aoes, blue or green dont matter unless you have some wanders outside the the intial mezz range that can get pulled into a blue aoe radius. If you fire off consecrate after a mezzer has locked down the mobs, none will take damage till you break a mez due to melee or direct attack and then only that mob. Normally if you wish to consecrate, let the mezzers know ahead of time and hold their mezzes in reserve for maximum effectiveness. Also i have noticed many paladins seem to be unaware that they can cancel their consecration spell if they need to by right clicking and canceling the spell. Have been in groups where we have asked a paladin to cancel so he doesnt walk into a non agro section and pull and they are like: "you mean that is possible?"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On a side note: How in the world is consecration considered a fixxable spell? In the last few months i have had it fizzle just as much as a heal or ward and there is no component in the spell that has a non damage piece to it, unless the power tap to the caster is considered beneficial or uses a ministration/ordination skill check.</DIV>

equinoxio

10-24-2006, 03:40 AM

Consecrate is the only atk spell we have (that I know) that uses Ordination skill, I have gone like 100 points in my ordination skill with using Consecrate.

Wulfborne

10-24-2006, 03:47 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> OrcSlayer96 wrote: <DIV>Also i have noticed many paladins seem to be unaware that they can cancel their consecration spell if they need to by right clicking and canceling the spell. Have been in groups where we have asked a paladin to cancel so he doesnt walk into a non agro section and pull and they are like: "you mean that is possible?"</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Even easier, all you have to do is click the spell again on your hotbar and it turns off. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul

Fatuus

10-24-2006, 05:33 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> OrcSlayer96 wrote: <DIV>I have lost track of the amount of times i have grouped with a illisionist or coercer and they assumed i was going to open up with a aoe. There must be alot of tanks out there that either are ignorant or ignore that if you open up on mobs with your two taunts instead of damage spells, you allow your friendly neighborhood mezzer to lock their mobs down. After that unleash your aoes, blue or green dont matter unless you have some wanders outside the the intial mezz range that can get pulled into a blue aoe radius. If you fire off consecrate after a mezzer has locked down the mobs, none will take damage till you break a mez due to melee or direct attack and then only that mob. Normally if you wish to consecrate, let the mezzers know ahead of time and hold their mezzes in reserve for maximum effectiveness. Also i have noticed many paladins seem to be unaware that they can cancel their consecration spell if they need to by right clicking and canceling the spell. Have been in groups where we have asked a paladin to cancel so he doesnt walk into a non agro section and pull and they are like: "you mean that is possible?"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On a side note: How in the world is consecration considered a fixxable spell? In the last few months i have had it fizzle just as much as a heal or ward and there is no component in the spell that has a non damage piece to it, unless the power tap to the caster is considered beneficial or uses a ministration/ordination skill check.</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> I have a 70 Coercer personally. Its great for any enchanter for a paladin to open up with any AOE. Its surprising how ignorant a lot of tank classes are of the needs of mezzers. Not opening up with an AOE USED to be the way chanters wanted you to start. This was due to the fact their way of "locking" down the mobs was via a group stun spell (now called a daze effect) that would break when any of the mobs were hit by an AOE. Mezzes prohibit any AOE spell damage or effects (ie: taunt increases from group taunts) from affecting any mobs. Even if a spell hits a mob with a non-directed AOE, as long as the spell does not cause a dot effect (either power drain or HP drain) the coercer will easily be able to mez that mob via group or individual mez spells. Consecrate WILL NOT AFFECT ANY MEZ SPELLS! You can use this spell freely around mezzers. It DOES NOT BREAK MEZZES. You are going on old school Pre LU 24 mez changes...LU 24 changed the way enchanters were able to mez. Again like I said before AOES are a MEZZERS friend from paladins...with the exception of the devout strike (single target) spell that will break mezes...but since its targeted on the mob you wish to kill it doesn't matter much (if you are tanking). The tank class mezzers HATE to group with are SK's since they basically only have DOTS for AOE and target damages.Message Edited by Fatuus on 10-24-2006 06:37 AM

Wulfborne

10-24-2006, 07:16 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Fatuus wrote: Consecrate WILL NOT AFFECT ANY MEZ SPELLS! You can use this spell freely around mezzers. It DOES NOT BREAK MEZZES. You are going on old school Pre LU 24 mez changes...LU 24 changed the way enchanters were able to mez. Again like I said before AOES are a MEZZERS friend from paladins...with the exception of the devout strike (single target) spell that will break mezes...but since its targeted on the mob you wish to kill it doesn't matter much (if you are tanking). The tank class mezzers HATE to group with are SK's since they basically only have DOTS for AOE and target damages. Message Edited by Fatuus on 10-24-200606:37 AM <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Only prob (for me, and probably some others as well) is to make sure that you don't have on gear that proc's damage on spell cast. I generally sport at least 3 pieces that do this when I am DPS'ing, so it's still dangerous (for me) if i don't do a gear change beforehand. ~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul

Fatuus

10-24-2006, 07:45 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wulfborne wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Fatuus wrote: Consecrate WILL NOT AFFECT ANY MEZ SPELLS! You can use this spell freely around mezzers. It DOES NOT BREAK MEZZES. You are going on old school Pre LU 24 mez changes...LU 24 changed the way enchanters were able to mez. Again like I said before AOES are a MEZZERS friend from paladins...with the exception of the devout strike (single target) spell that will break mezes...but since its targeted on the mob you wish to kill it doesn't matter much (if you are tanking). The tank class mezzers HATE to group with are SK's since they basically only have DOTS for AOE and target damages. Message Edited by Fatuus on 10-24-200606:37 AM <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Only prob (for me, and probably some others as well) is to make sure that you don't have on gear that proc's damage on spell cast. I generally sport at least 3 pieces that do this when I am DPS'ing, so it's still dangerous (for me) if i don't do a gear change beforehand. ~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Items that proc should NOT cause an issue against mobs that hurt you, unless the proc is a dot in nature that inflicts a damage or manadrain proc. STUN, STIFFLE procs do NOT break mez...they don't damage the mob. Items like the bone clasp girdle will only proc on the mob you are attacking and can HIT...therefore if the mob is mezzed you can't HIT the mob with any of your spells...so it won't proc on the mezed mob. This is not always the case. There are a few goofy examples of what items and spells/combat arts are broke in this regard, the swash hurricane ability is a great example of this.

OrcSlayer96

10-24-2006, 08:37 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Fatuus wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wulfborne wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Fatuus wrote: Consecrate WILL NOT AFFECT ANY MEZ SPELLS! You can use this spell freely around mezzers. It DOES NOT BREAK MEZZES. You are going on old school Pre LU 24 mez changes...LU 24 changed the way enchanters were able to mez. Again like I said before AOES are a MEZZERS friend from paladins...with the exception of the devout strike (single target) spell that will break mezes...but since its targeted on the mob you wish to kill it doesn't matter much (if you are tanking). The tank class mezzers HATE to group with are SK's since they basically only have DOTS for AOE and target damages. Message Edited by Fatuus on 10-24-200606:37 AM <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Only prob (for me, and probably some others as well) is to make sure that you don't have on gear that proc's damage on spell cast. I generally sport at least 3 pieces that do this when I am DPS'ing, so it's still dangerous (for me) if i don't do a gear change beforehand. ~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Items that proc should NOT cause an issue against mobs that hurt you, unless the proc is a dot in nature that inflicts a damage or manadrain proc. STUN, STIFFLE procs do NOT break mez...they don't damage the mob. Items like the bone clasp girdle will only proc on the mob you are attacking and can HIT...therefore if the mob is mezzed you can't HIT the mob with any of your spells...so it won't proc on the mezed mob. This is not always the case. There are a few goofy examples of what items and spells/combat arts are broke in this regard, the swash hurricane ability is a great example of this. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> I understand that consecrate doesnt affect mezzed targets, what i mean is if you want to hit all the targets with consecrate, let your mezzers know beforehand, otherwise you are not achieving maximum damage with the spell. Generally, when i group with a mezzer, i save consecrate for the wanderers or repoppers instead of the encounters we are on. It especially comes in handy in contested dungeons like temple of the scale or sanctum of the scaleborn when another group/raid or rogue monk comes running thru your area and a player's aoes catch the mobs. So if we pull with brimstone before the mezzers have a chance to use their group mez, you are saying the mobs wont break the after mez with any of our AOEs like Doom Judgement, Holy Circle, Brimstone/Decree, Unflinching Conviction, Castigate, after the lockdown? For me i like to stick with the 2 taunts first, being as most of our aoes are point blank aoes centered around us and i like to pull ahead of the main group and bring back in case of any nasty barrages or spells. I know that when you are with mezzers, the godking weapon proc has a very nasty chance of breaking mez with its disease dot that has a good cahnce to proc, so i shelve that weapon when i mentor unless i am in total healer mode and need the power regen from it. I wonder who was the einstein dev that placed ordination skill check on a straight damage spell like consecration? Did they look at the spell description and see the power cost per tick and think, that it is just like a manastone so lets toss a fizzable component to it. Let's completely ignore the damage component and frustrate the paladins out there with another fizzable spell, heheh. I dont know, usually i preward, then toss sigil up then toss my taunts off when pulling the mobs, even if the straggler casts first, sigil gets him to come after me and with the preward i keep the shaman safe from instant death. One of the biggest factors on steady agro is who you have amends on and how well they play their character. A well played monk on single target mobs or mobs mezzed and taking them down one at a time is hard to beat for agro control. In places where you have high resist mobs like the drakotas in Labs, i still take the monk over a wizard or warlock, but generally in those situations i am amendsing to reduce a caster's agro. I really wish they would change the sorcerer's agro transfer to a agro eliminator like the guardians buff, it would make things work so much better in raids/groups.

Fatuus

10-24-2006, 10:34 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> OrcSlayer96 wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Fatuus wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wulfborne wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Fatuus wrote: Consecrate WILL NOT AFFECT ANY MEZ SPELLS! You can use this spell freely around mezzers. It DOES NOT BREAK MEZZES. You are going on old school Pre LU 24 mez changes...LU 24 changed the way enchanters were able to mez. Again like I said before AOES are a MEZZERS friend from paladins...with the exception of the devout strike (single target) spell that will break mezes...but since its targeted on the mob you wish to kill it doesn't matter much (if you are tanking). The tank class mezzers HATE to group with are SK's since they basically only have DOTS for AOE and target damages. Message Edited by Fatuus on 10-24-200606:37 AM <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Only prob (for me, and probably some others as well) is to make sure that you don't have on gear that proc's damage on spell cast. I generally sport at least 3 pieces that do this when I am DPS'ing, so it's still dangerous (for me) if i don't do a gear change beforehand. ~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Items that proc should NOT cause an issue against mobs that hurt you, unless the proc is a dot in nature that inflicts a damage or manadrain proc. STUN, STIFFLE procs do NOT break mez...they don't damage the mob. Items like the bone clasp girdle will only proc on the mob you are attacking and can HIT...therefore if the mob is mezzed you can't HIT the mob with any of your spells...so it won't proc on the mezed mob. This is not always the case. There are a few goofy examples of what items and spells/combat arts are broke in this regard, the swash hurricane ability is a great example of this. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> I understand that consecrate doesnt affect mezzed targets, what i mean is if you want to hit all the targets with consecrate, let your mezzers know beforehand, otherwise you are not achieving maximum damage with the spell. Generally, when i group with a mezzer, i save consecrate for the wanderers or repoppers instead of the encounters we are on. It especially comes in handy in contested dungeons like temple of the scale or sanctum of the scaleborn when another group/raid or rogue monk comes running thru your area and a player's aoes catch the mobs. So if we pull with brimstone before the mezzers have a chance to use their group mez, you are saying the mobs wont break the after mez with any of our AOEs like Doom Judgement, Holy Circle, Brimstone/Decree, Unflinching Conviction, Castigate, after the lockdown? Correct you will NOT break mezes of ANY mobs that have been MEZED...mobs that have been DAZED are a different story..however its pretty simple for enchanters to lock them down if they break too. For me i like to stick with the 2 taunts first, being as most of our aoes are point blank aoes centered around us and i like to pull ahead of the main group and bring back in case of any nasty barrages or spells. I know that when you are with mezzers, the godking weapon proc has a very nasty chance of breaking mez with its disease dot that has a good cahnce to proc, so i shelve that weapon when i mentor unless i am in total healer mode and need the power regen from it. I wonder who was the einstein dev that placed ordination skill check on a straight damage spell like consecration? Did they look at the spell description and see the power cost per tick and think, that it is just like a manastone so lets toss a fizzable component to it. Let's completely ignore the damage component and frustrate the paladins out there with another fizzable spell, heheh. I dont know, usually i preward, then toss sigil up then toss my taunts off when pulling the mobs, even if the straggler casts first, sigil gets him to come after me and with the preward i keep the shaman safe from instant death. One of the biggest factors on steady agro is who you have amends on and how well they play their character. A well played monk on single target mobs or mobs mezzed and taking them down one at a time is hard to beat for agro control. In places where you have high resist mobs like the drakotas in Labs, i still take the monk over a wizard or warlock, but generally in those situations i am amendsing to reduce a caster's agro. I really wish they would change the sorcerer's agro transfer to a agro eliminator like the guardians buff, it would make things work so much better in raids/groups. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>

Dwergux

10-25-2006, 11:47 AM

<blockquote><hr>Fatuus wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Wulfborne wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Fatuus wrote:Consecrate WILL NOT AFFECT ANY MEZ SPELLS! You can use this spell freely around mezzers. It DOES NOT BREAK MEZZES. You are going on old school Pre LU 24 mez changes...LU 24 changed the way enchanters were able to mez.Again like I said before AOES are a MEZZERS friend from paladins...with the exception of the devout strike (single target) spell that will break mezes...but since its targeted on the mob you wish to kill it doesn't matter much (if you are tanking). The tank class mezzers HATE to group with are SK's since they basically only have DOTS for AOE and target damages.Message Edited by Fatuus on 10-24-200606:37 AM <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Only prob (for me, and probably some others as well) is to make sure that you don't have on gear that proc's damage on spell cast. I generally sport at least 3 pieces that do this when I am DPS'ing, so it's still dangerous (for me) if i don't do a gear change beforehand.~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Items that proc should NOT cause an issue against mobs that hurt you, unless the proc is a dot in nature that inflicts a damage or manadrain proc. STUN, STIFFLE procs do NOT break mez...they don't damage the mob. Items like the bone clasp girdle will only proc on the mob you are attacking and can HIT...therefore if the mob is mezzed you can't HIT the mob with any of your spells...so it won't proc on the mezed mob.This is not always the case. There are a few goofy examples of what items and spells/combat arts are broke in this regard, the swash hurricane ability is a great example of this.<hr></blockquote>The problem is paladin taunts are considered a spell, so using your single target taunt on a mezzed mob (in order to generate hate towards you and get the nr. 1 hate position away from the mezzer) you can and will (Murphies law: if anything can go wrong it will go wrong and when it goes wrong it will be in the most inconvient moment) break mezz if you have a spell proc buff active (be it from an item or a spell/song).