Paladin only raid!

[Geekyone]

<DIV>I think it would be feasable.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We have Heals, Wards, Rez's.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We could use Intercede contantly with 24 paladins and 24 wards worth 1200, being cast on the MT pally every 30 seconds would help to...then of course 24 LoH's that could be used.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>24 Consecrates going off at the same time...thats about 3,000 points of damage ever 1.5 seconds for a minute.</DIV>

[Kaleyen]

Sure 24 level 70 Pallys can take on an epic x4 55 mob np!<div></div>

[TheBu]

<DIV>You might wanta do some instances first....</DIV>

[Vulkan_NTooki]

<P>If you isolate healing and dps numbers, it would be feasible(atleast for the pickup raid areas like labs, HoS and Lyc).. However.. timing(for healing) would be crucial and almost impossible to organize.</P> <P> </P> <P>Maybe if you had 2-3 paladins that used their LoH's quickly to get the wardchain going.. But do they even stack?</P> <P> </P> <P>Another problem would be power regen, and buffs.. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P>Ppl underestimate paladins prowess tho.. even within the paladin community... sad</P> <P> </P>

[Kaleyen]

I don't underestimate, I know the limits of my class.  Our best healing tool is our ward and they do NOT stack with eachother.  When I'm in healing mode I can keep up with the non-MT group healers and the majority of that comes from my ward.  We can't heal burst damage besides LoH and that's where we will fall short.<div></div>

[Vulkan_NTooki]

<P>If the ward doesnt stack, then it wont do much good.. have to agree on that.. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P>Allthought it would be awesome to participate in an attempt.. hehe.. :p</P>

[Kaleyen]

That and if you blue background AE in places like labs you'll get pwnd in the face.<div></div>

[Norrsken]

<DIV>Who would be MT? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[holypaladin28]

couldnt do it on my server 8 pallys lvl 61-70 2 are inactive 2 more are bots

[Knesh]

<DIV>Theres only 8 paldins on vox sheesh I need to move to vox!</DIV>

[Kaleyen]

<div><blockquote><hr>Knesh wrote:<div>Theres only 8 paldins on vox sheesh I need to move to vox!</div><hr></blockquote>There's only like 3 Pallys on Venekor that still play :p  I mean level 70 Pallys that is.</div>

[holypaladin28]

<blockquote><hr>Knesh wrote:<DIV>Theres only 8 paldins on vox sheesh I need to move to vox!</DIV><hr></blockquote>rofl only 3 of them are lvl 70 and one of them sucks bigtimw.but im getting ready to move to lvl 70 ina few weeks just need to finish grinind a few other guildies

[Mantell]

<P>I've toyed with the idea of single-class groups before. I think this is doable though not the best configuration for a raid.</P> <P>There would actually be too much healing. You'd want to configure the groups with specific tasks in mind. </P> <P>Group 1, the MT group would have the Pally with the highest Mit, best taunts, strength line AAs set up as MT. He's #1. Pally #2 does nothing but POA and ward. He maxes out his mit and avoidance and puts his avoidance buff on MT for all the good it will do him. He spams the single-target and the group heals only when the ward is down.  Pally #3 spams single target and group heals and hits Intercede on a regular basis and calls it when it goes off so #4 and 5 can do the same thing. Pally #6 has Amends on him, he taunts hard and is geared for DPS. Preferably #6 has the Int/Sta AA lines for max DPS.</P> <P>Group 2 is the backup MT group, set up exactly the same. The backup tank, Pally #7 gears for mit and spams his ward on the MT while he's up. He taunts between wards. He does not intercede because he's there to pick up aggro with Rescue and needs to have full HP when that happens. His support heals/wards the MT while he's up and then switches to the backup tank if he falls.</P> <P>The other two groups would have to be told not to heal and focus on max DPS. In the event you are fighting something with huge melee range AOE you would need to specify two paladins in each of these groups to hit group heals every time the AOE goes off.</P> <P>Aggro is easy to manage, just make sure that the MT has all his taunts in before calling for assist. Make sure that if Consecrate goes off that the MT fires his first. If someone keeps pulling aggro because he's too uber just swap them into the MT group and put Amends on him.</P> <P>You have to have a specific chain for lay hands, rez, intercede and the ward. Actually you should have that on any raid but it usually gets lost in the shuffle.</P> <P>The biggest problem is that Castigate has a 3 minute timer and it's the only ability that removes dots and debuffs. If the MT gets hit by Debilitate or something and his Castigate is down there's nobody who can cure it. He can carry potions to get around this but they have a reuse timer that could get in the way.</P> <P>Don't think I'm going to be trying this though. There aren't enough active paladins in my guild and finding and convincing 20 other paladins to try it probably wouldn't work out.</P> <P> </P>

[khufure]

Why don't you just go raid doomsquall naked instead if you are bored<div></div>

[Boli32]

<div></div>That raid is going to end up with a lot of dead pallys.... you're missing a lot of crucial debuffs... next time you raid just ask everyone not to debuff and then you see how hard an epic <i>really</i> hits... its like trying to survive the 'pull' every second. Slows, stoneskin, wards, reactives, dps debuffs ('cept tha pally centric ones), are all missing if you are just goign to tank an epic based purely on mitigation and abvoidance you are going to end up one nasty smear across the floor. Even if you manage to keep yourself alive with no cross class buff stacking your dps will be the same as it is when you solo... and you are goign to run out of power fast.Sure you can do instances untill they come out your ears... but epics? *shakes head*A nice pipe dream but not a reality. I love pallys and all but classes work best when their buffs stack.Just think of your hit points... your solo hit points + ward I'm thinking 10k...maybe.... an undebuffed raid mob you are talking about 8k hits easily even with capped mit and if they arn't slowed they are going to be coming in faster than you can heal/reward.<div></div><p>Message Edited by boli on <span class=date_text>10-17-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:59 AM</span>

[Fatuus]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DarthKerwin wrote:<BR> <P>I've toyed with the idea of single-class groups before. I think this is doable though not the best configuration for a raid.</P> <P>There would actually be too much healing. You'd want to configure the groups with specific tasks in mind. </P> <P>Group 1, the MT group would have the Pally with the highest Mit, best taunts, strength line AAs set up as MT. He's #1. Pally #2 does nothing but POA and ward. He maxes out his mit and avoidance </P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Avoidance is nerfed against epic mobs currently, just ask any brawler why they can't tank an epic for more then a second unless they can use tsunami.</FONT></P> <P>and puts his avoidance buff on MT for all the good it will do him. He spams the single-target and the group heals only when the ward is down.  Pally #3 spams single target and group heals and hits Intercede on a regular basis </P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Intercede is the most usless pointless spell for anyone other then a guardian (tower of stone) and brawler with a higher general HP pool since it still IGNORES the mitigation of yourself currently. Very easy to one shot yourself intercepting what would have been a 1.5k shot to the MT.</FONT></P> <P>and calls it when it goes off so #4 and 5 can do the same thing. Pally #6 has Amends on him, he taunts hard and is geared for DPS. Preferably #6 has the Int/Sta AA lines for max DPS.</P> <P>Group 2 is the backup MT group, set up exactly the same. The backup tank, Pally #7 gears for mit and spams his ward on the MT while he's up. He taunts between wards. He does not intercede because he's there to pick up aggro with Rescue and needs to have full HP when that happens. His support heals/wards the MT while he's up and then switches to the backup tank if he falls.</P> <P>The other two groups would have to be told not to heal and focus on max DPS. In the event you are fighting something with huge melee range AOE you would need to specify two paladins in each of these groups to hit group heals every time the AOE goes off.</P> <P>Aggro is easy to manage, just make sure that the MT has all his taunts in before calling for assist. Make sure that if Consecrate goes off that the MT fires his first. If someone keeps pulling aggro because he's too uber just swap them into the MT group and put Amends on him.</P> <P>You have to have a specific chain for lay hands, rez, intercede and the ward. Actually you should have that on any raid but it usually gets lost in the shuffle.</P> <P>The biggest problem is that Castigate has a 3 minute timer and it's the only ability that removes dots and debuffs. If the MT gets hit by Debilitate or something and his Castigate is down there's nobody who can cure it. He can carry potions to get around this but they have a reuse timer that could get in the way.</P> <P>Don't think I'm going to be trying this though. There aren't enough active paladins in my guild and finding and convincing 20 other paladins to try it probably wouldn't work out.</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Wulfborne]

<div><blockquote><hr>Fatuus wrote:<div></div><blockquote><p><font color="#ff0000">Intercede is the most usless pointless spell for anyone other then a guardian (tower of stone) and brawler with a higher general HP pool since it still IGNORES the mitigation of yourself currently. Very easy to one shot yourself intercepting what would have been a 1.5k shot to the MT.</font></p></blockquote><hr></blockquote>They fixed that... and last I checked, it worked pretty good. When it was broken, people got 1-shotted all over the place. I haven't had it happen since the fix went in, and usually don't get hit very hard when I use it. So unless they broke it again very recently, it still works for me.~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul</div>

[TheManInTheBox]

I've joked around about an all paladin raid before. I would have to give it a try and film it. <span>:smileytongue:</span><div></div>

[Nicholai24]

Intercede works fine, and saves lives. Anyone with the HP to use Intercede who doesn't bother should be slapped.<div></div>

[ChopStix]

haha that would be funny, every pally would definetly run out of power before the raid mob died...

[OrcSlayer96]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Fatuus wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DarthKerwin wrote:<BR> <P>I've toyed with the idea of single-class groups before. I think this is doable though not the best configuration for a raid.</P> <P>There would actually be too much healing. You'd want to configure the groups with specific tasks in mind. </P> <P>Group 1, the MT group would have the Pally with the highest Mit, best taunts, strength line AAs set up as MT. He's #1. Pally #2 does nothing but POA and ward. He maxes out his mit and avoidance </P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Avoidance is nerfed against epic mobs currently, just ask any brawler why they can't tank an epic for more then a second unless they can use tsunami.</FONT></P> <P>and puts his avoidance buff on MT for all the good it will do him. He spams the single-target and the group heals only when the ward is down.  Pally #3 spams single target and group heals and hits Intercede on a regular basis </P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Intercede is the most usless pointless spell for anyone other then a guardian (tower of stone) and brawler with a higher general HP pool since it still IGNORES the mitigation of yourself currently. Very easy to one shot yourself intercepting what would have been a 1.5k shot to the MT.</FONT></P> <P>and calls it when it goes off so #4 and 5 can do the same thing. Pally #6 has Amends on him, he taunts hard and is geared for DPS. Preferably #6 has the Int/Sta AA lines for max DPS.</P> <P>Group 2 is the backup MT group, set up exactly the same. The backup tank, Pally #7 gears for mit and spams his ward on the MT while he's up. He taunts between wards. He does not intercede because he's there to pick up aggro with Rescue and needs to have full HP when that happens. His support heals/wards the MT while he's up and then switches to the backup tank if he falls.</P> <P>The other two groups would have to be told not to heal and focus on max DPS. In the event you are fighting something with huge melee range AOE you would need to specify two paladins in each of these groups to hit group heals every time the AOE goes off.</P> <P>Aggro is easy to manage, just make sure that the MT has all his taunts in before calling for assist. Make sure that if Consecrate goes off that the MT fires his first. If someone keeps pulling aggro because he's too uber just swap them into the MT group and put Amends on him.</P> <P>You have to have a specific chain for lay hands, rez, intercede and the ward. Actually you should have that on any raid but it usually gets lost in the shuffle.</P> <P>The biggest problem is that Castigate has a 3 minute timer and it's the only ability that removes dots and debuffs. If the MT gets hit by Debilitate or something and his Castigate is down there's nobody who can cure it. He can carry potions to get around this but they have a reuse timer that could get in the way.</P> <P>Don't think I'm going to be trying this though. There aren't enough active paladins in my guild and finding and convincing 20 other paladins to try it probably wouldn't work out.</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I agree with the avoidance, but the interced/intercept works just fine.  Normally i am setup as a support tank but buffed up my health to be even higher than  the mt sometimes.  going into defense mode with my master 1 intercept, i have save alot of people since they fixxed the bug.  I like to toss it on a mage when he pulls agro from a ice nova or undead tide and toss it on the mt on the pull for a psuedo stoneskin for him.  I learned a long time ago to not toss it on the mt and be in the the mt's path of a cone attack mob, instant death as you take cone damage plus intercept his damage, heheh.</P> <P>I like the fact also that intercepts do not generate hate or very very little hate.  when tossing on the mt the only way i iniatlly pull agro is if i toss the ward on him first, otherwise the intercept is a non agro benefit to him.  I tell the healers to ignore me unless i die or drop to red/purple(sometimes even a mitigated spiked damage hit can be overpowering.  I have used it also when i saw the mt get hit with chaincasted debilatate or other mitigation debuffers and the healers are stunned/stifled.  if the mob hits him with a follow up shot it hits me at my standard mitigation, not the mt's debuffed mitigation.<BR></P>

[Squelch]

<DIV>If it only worked llike this, think of the possibility of hate gain. Pali 2 ammends pali 1, pali 3 ammends pali 2, pali 4 ammends pali 3 ect ect ect. MT got uber hate.</DIV>

[JarredDarque]

<P>I have also often toyed around with the idea.  the problems really lay in these areas:</P> <P>power--we all know that we burn through it really, really fast</P> <P>offensive debuffs--we cant slow the target, we cant lower his DPS, increase recast timers etc.</P> <P>organization--due to all the redundent effects, to conserver power would require an amazing lvl of orginazation, and the second something went wrong, it would all go wrong relaly quick</P> <P>removal of Debuffs--at most, a Paladin is going to have 2 debuff/DOT removals without potions.   Castigate, and Helm of the Vindicator.   For one thing, Debilitate,  alot of epics throw that thing on every 15 seconds.  The named right before corsolander,  has a MAJOR arcane kill-shot.  90% of health when it ticks,  he throws it out about once a minute and a half.  You get hit with that more than 3 times,  your entire raid is toast at the same time.  (It is a raid wipe spell)</P> <P> </P> <P>honestly, if we did not suck at power consumption, then the massive damage would not be a problem.   especially if you set group 1 to always heal, group 2 to heal when in the yellow,  group 3 to heal when in the orange, and 4 to  heal in the red.  And also set an order for when to use LoHs</P> <P>Someone mentioned debuffs, like the brigands dispatch.  dispatch is nice, but if you only have one brigand (we run with two honestly) then a mob is only dispatched for a very short time of the total fight.  Other than that spell, there are very few divine debuffs out there, since divine is not typically thought of as a DPS damage type...come on,  us, SK, and healers use it....and thus, very few people can debuff it at all.  I dont see this being a major effect, except increasing the length of the fights, and thus our problems with power come into play.   With say 14 of your people DPSing, if they know what to do,  and have their 22% haste gloves,  you should have aobut 10k DPS...which is stil la bit short for a raid,  and that is going all out.  And all of us raiders know that you need spike damage, to take care of adds like the Alzid in labs wit hte mutagenics etc.</P> <P> </P> <P>Now, if you took say 18 Paladins, and say the last group filled with other classes,  brigand, templar, (insert other nice healer type here)  wizzy, conj, (insert poer regen here) and split those last 6 up within the groups as needed,   say  templar in MT group for extra mit and HPs,   along with power regen for well..power..  add in an inquis in one group for added DPS buffs etc.   Then yes,  you could prolly do a mostly PAladin raid,  but noit a full Pally raid.</P> <P> </P> <P>As for the guy who said hey, maybe you could try a lvl 55 epic...You can do that with a single group of Pallies.</P>

[ChopStix]

<DIV>i was in a raid once in lyceum... it wasnt an all paladin raid by far, but a couple of healers bugged out on the raid.. so for [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]e and giggles we stuck 4 paladins and a beserker and a trouby in the MT group... it was pretty funny and it didnt last to long either... no way the heals could keep up..  lasted less than 2 minutes..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> but it was funny..</DIV>