I found my DPS Problem!

[Kaleyen]

I've been severly slacking behind the SK in DPS on raids and granted he has a slightly better 2HS then me I wondered what the hell I was doing wrong.  I mean granted I'm not spec'd all for DPS, I went STA 5-4-8-8 and INT 4-4-8-8 meaning I did a combo of HP/DPS which I feel the boost in HP helps me in raids because then I can outlast the AE's better then the silly mages and rez em.My strat has been auto attack then fire off a CA/Spell, auto attack fire off a CA/Spell so I can utilize my offensive skills and I can do decent enough but still notice the huge gap between my evil and dark brethern on raids.As it turns out I needed my Combat Arts and Spells above App. IV to compete, so this weekend I plan exile a level 10 scout, give him coin, put him back in Qeynos, get Spongy's then exile him back.  Ever notice that some of the most frustrating questions can be solved with a very simple answer?<div></div>

[Squelch]

<DIV>WOW Im a bit supprised. Most of us get adept 1 or adept 3 ASAP, and sprinkle in masters. I hope your healers on raid have adept 3 on their good heals and buffs :/  </DIV>

[Kaleyen]

I have Adept III's in heals/ward/stances/procs.  But being exile the price for a spongy is 3+ plat so I just didn't think much into it after seeing the price tag, but after a detailed dicussion with a raiding Pally on AB it boils down to my own bloobieness.<div></div>

[Boethius_Permafrost]

What's all this exile stuff?  Can unaffiliated characters still not use mail?<div></div>

[enjoilab]

i dont even have a good 2 hander and on some raids i end up in the top 10...its all those adept 3s i had to buy for 3pp each

[TuxDave]

<DIV>What's with all the exiling?  </DIV>

[Jodah]

<P>I found your DPS problem! Your a Paladin :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P>lol sry just kidding, but might add to bit of the issue :smileywink:</P>

[Kaleyen]

<div><blockquote><hr>TuxDave wrote:<div>What's with all the exiling?  </div><hr></blockquote>I'm the only Paladin in Exile.</div>

[enjoilab]

i am in a qeynos guild called Exile its been the #1 Q guild on the server and has been created since day 1 of pvp

[Kaleyen]

Yeah, don't get us confused...Liluk the ExileBalios of Exile<div></div>

[enjoilab]

its not like we dont kill each other...

[Kaleyen]

Hey Balios, I got a discovery on Paladin Relic Gloves....sup with that?!<div></div>

[enjoilab]

i only have relic boots...but i have the fear etched gloves from LoA, also did ya get the labs helm and shoulders yet...i am still mad that you got those firebrand pants before us...

[holypaladin28]

im thinking when i hit lvl 70 im going to get some pally discoverys for my server. there are 8 lvl 70 pallys 2 arent active and 2 other well suck pvp+pally=lowpally populationhave no fear when EOF comes out we will all be happy with what we getmore dps baby

[Kaleyen]

<div><blockquote><hr>enjoilabel wrote:<div></div>i only have relic boots...but i have the fear etched gloves from LoA, also did ya get the labs helm and shoulders yet...i am still mad that you got those firebrand pants before us...<hr></blockquote>Nope, but I did get the Doomsworn Solitare and the Wurmscale band from Labs, which is good cause my jewelery <strike>is</strike> was severly lacking.</div>

[enjoilab]

i go just for the mit and resist jewels...i do have the 25 str agi sta neck piece from the ring event guy in labs cant remember the name

[Kaleyen]

I was in severe need of resist jewelry as you saw my resists before leaving Qeynos.  Seems I've been having very good luck with it...that or my resists did suck so much that I was taken pity upon :p<div></div>

[enjoilab]

i can get all them to cap except stupid mental...

[Geekyone]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> enjoilabel wrote:<BR> i dont even have a good 2 hander and on some raids i end up in the top 10...<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I find this hard to believe unless you are in a raid filled with Templars.  I would sometimes hit at or just above the 10 spot on a 12 man raid.  On a full raid, that would never be seen.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have a very good 2HS, Acheivements set for max melee damage and all Adept 3's or masters.  Yet all these other paladins magicially do more dps than an Assassan on crack.</DIV>

[Kaleyen]

<div><blockquote><hr>Geekyone wrote: <div> </div> <div>I have a very good 2HS, Acheivements set for max melee damage and all Adept 3's or masters.  Yet all these other paladins magicially do more dps than an Assassan on crack.</div><hr></blockquote>I do more dps then a Templar on crack...does that count?</div>

[Seidhkona]

<blockquote><hr>Geekyone wrote: <div>I find this hard to believe unless you are in a raid filled with Templars.  I would sometimes hit at or just above the 10 spot on a 12 man raid.  On a full raid, that would never be seen. </div> <div>I have a very good 2HS, Acheivements set for max melee damage and all Adept 3's or masters.  Yet all these other paladins magicially do more dps than an Assassan on crack. </div><hr></blockquote> I'm betting you only THINK you are correctly configured for DPS.  A paladin in my guild, Sir Strikkeer, regularly parses <a href="http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/souls/parses/Labs_20060819.html" target=_blank>in the top 10</a> on a raid for DPS and <a href="http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/souls/parses/Labs_20060901.html" target=_blank>sometimes even in the top 5</a>.  When I followed his suggestions I boosted my own DPS enormously.  He recommended maxing INT for the maximum amount of crits, since paladins are primarily casters in terms of where we do damage. <div></div>

[Kaleyen]

I've heard mix responses on STR vs INT for maximum DPS and to be honost I am playing towards the STR theory for the time being.  When I do upgrade my spells and ca's I'll have to post my findings.Oh and I haven't done any AA in the STR line.<div></div>

[holypaladin28]

no hes right for max DPS the INT crit line and the STA melee CRIT line are the way to go.you have to remeebr half our attacks are spell based think about it lets say you gear for max dps so STR and INT for your stat capsand you go down the AA lINE the int is either a 50-60 percent chance for CRIT spell damage. thats alotthen you go down the STA line put 8 in the crit melee line you have a 30-40 percent chance to CRIT damage that alone is a huge increase in pally DPS<p>Message Edited by holypaladin2819 on <span class=date_text>10-16-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:26 AM</span>

[Boli32]

<div><blockquote><hr>Seidhkona wrote:<blockquote><hr>Geekyone wrote: <div>I find this hard to believe unless you are in a raid filled with Templars.  I would sometimes hit at or just above the 10 spot on a 12 man raid.  On a full raid, that would never be seen. </div> <div>I have a very good 2HS, Acheivements set for max melee damage and all Adept 3's or masters.  Yet all these other paladins magicially do more dps than an Assassan on crack. </div><hr></blockquote> I'm betting you only THINK you are correctly configured for DPS.  A paladin in my guild, Sir Strikkeer, regularly parses <a href="http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/souls/parses/Labs_20060819.html" target="_blank">in the top 10</a> on a raid for DPS and <a href="http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/souls/parses/Labs_20060901.html" target="_blank">sometimes even in the top 5</a>.  When I followed his suggestions I boosted my own DPS enormously.  He recommended maxing INT for the maximum amount of crits, since paladins are primarily casters in terms of where we do damage. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Good advice... but those parses are severaly lacking in DPS doing 300-400 dps is nothing even as a pally breaking 500 should be do-able without breaking a sweat if the mob is debuffed correctly.</div>

[Nicholai24]

That's extended DPS, not normal DPS. EXT DPS is always lower. Merged parses.600 DPS - 700 DPS should be doable. If you've been running with AppIV spells, no wonder you've been sucking.The increase from AppIV to M1 is around 100% more damage, if I recall. Possibly more. App1 - M1 is 187%.<div></div>

[Fatuus]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> holypaladin2819 wrote:<BR>no hes right for max DPS the INT crit line and the STA melee CRIT line are the way to go.<BR>you have to remeebr half our attacks are spell based <BR><BR><BR>think about it lets say you gear for max dps so STR and INT for your stat caps<BR><BR><BR>and you go down the AA lINE the int is either a 50-60 percent chance for CRIT spell damage. thats alot<BR><BR>then you go down the STA line put 8 in the crit melee line you have a 30-40 percent chance to CRIT damage <BR><BR>that alone is a huge increase in pally DPS <P>Message Edited by holypaladin2819 on <SPAN class=date_text>10-16-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:26 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Since a crit does about 20% more damage then a normal strike...by going down the int and sta lines like you said you are gaining about 10% more damage output overall on the parses.</P> <P>However, keep in mind that other aa lines do increase your damage output as well via buffs and abilities. By going down the STR lines I have myself perpetually hasted for an additional 40%...thats a greater chance that I can proc with my weapon and more then makes up for the sta crit line increase. I also got the 12% faster cast timer and recast reducer which allows me to nuke faster and harder on shorter fights. All said and done I parse routinely around 5 to 600 DPS on raids against single target mobs using ONLY a 1H weapon and can easily hit 1k dps against group mob encounters. If I had a nice 2h fabled Axe I would probably parse around 7 to 800 DPS and 1.1 to 1.2 k on encounter mobs.</P> <P>I agree that the Max Int line is a great way to go for DPS, but I can max INT at current INT caps without going that line and still maintain superior tankability without using the STA and INT lines.</P> <P>Message Edited by Fatuus on <SPAN class=date_text>10-17-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:35 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Fatuus on <span class=date_text>10-17-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:37 PM</span>

[Xidiana]

<DIV>Hi all...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm planning to go STR 4/4/8 STA 4/4/8 INT 4/4/8, so why not just get the best of all 3?. Combining the Crits from Melee and the Haste from STR is working wonders for me. I've got 31 AA atm, and have only consentrated on my STR and STA lines first, I'll finish up the INT line as I progress to 50 AA's. Currently my Haste goes over 50%, if I fire off that spell in the STR line (given I also have the haste belt equiped).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but afaik, CA's dont interrupt Auto attack, whereas some of our spells' casting time is so long, that you could probably have done the same dmg with just auto attack. This is probably why I chose to go STR STA first, and do INT afterwards. Also, remember, increased haste increases the chance of procs firing off, and also in offensive stance we have more stance of interrupts. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I must say though, I'm not sure if I should spend some points in the Heal crit line, as I ward myself more than what I heal myself.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just my opinion <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Haven't played as long as the other lvl 70's here <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Friendly</DIV> <DIV>lvl 66 Paladin</DIV> <DIV>Oldliners - Darathar</DIV>

[Nicholai24]

NT<p>Message Edited by Nicholai24 on <span class=date_text>10-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:24 AM</span>

[Kaleyen]

<div><blockquote><hr>Xidiana wrote:<div>Hi all...</div> <div> </div> <div>I'm planning to go STR 4/4/8 STA 4/4/8 INT 4/4/8, so why not just get the best of all 3?. </div><hr></blockquote>Because on raids and pvp raid on raid my job isn't to do damage.On Raids: Group heals/Help with main heals when we're short a few healers/Do moderate damagePvP Raid vs Raid: Group heals/Direct Heals/TAUNT/Very little damageI gain a lot by the crit heal in the INT line, I forget the percentage when it's max'd at 8 points off the top of my head.  But I do know that there was a HUGE increase in my healage on raids from when I hadn't any in the heal crit to when I max'd it out.</div>

[OrcSlayer96]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Fatuus wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> holypaladin2819 wrote:<BR>no hes right for max DPS the INT crit line and the STA melee CRIT line are the way to go.<BR>you have to remeebr half our attacks are spell based <BR><BR><BR>think about it lets say you gear for max dps so STR and INT for your stat caps<BR><BR><BR>and you go down the AA lINE the int is either a 50-60 percent chance for CRIT spell damage. thats alot<BR><BR>then you go down the STA line put 8 in the crit melee line you have a 30-40 percent chance to CRIT damage <BR><BR>that alone is a huge increase in pally DPS <P>Message Edited by holypaladin2819 on <SPAN class=date_text>10-16-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:26 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Since a crit does about 20% more damage then a normal strike...by going down the int and sta lines like you said you are gaining about 10% more damage output overall on the parses.</P> <P>However, keep in mind that other aa lines do increase your damage output as well via buffs and abilities. By going down the STR lines I have myself perpetually hasted for an additional 40%...thats a greater chance that I can proc with my weapon and more then makes up for the sta crit line increase. I also got the 12% faster cast timer and recast reducer which allows me to nuke faster and harder on shorter fights. All said and done I parse routinely around 5 to 600 DPS on raids against single target mobs using ONLY a 1H weapon and can easily hit 1k dps against group mob encounters. If I had a nice 2h fabled Axe I would probably parse around 7 to 800 DPS and 1.1 to 1.2 k on encounter mobs.</P> <P>I agree that the Max Int line is a great way to go for DPS, but I can max INT at current INT caps without going that line and still maintain superior tankability without using the STA and INT lines.</P> <P>Message Edited by Fatuus on <SPAN class=date_text>10-17-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:35 PM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Fatuus on <SPAN class=date_text>10-17-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:37 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>In your situation, STR would be a very doable choice on the AA lines.  I guess the way i look at it for maxxing int and sta lines is more dps versus groups of mobs not single encounters.  The strength line is good for haste and taunting increases plus the decresed casting/recast time, but the majority of my damage is coming from my spells like my 6 AOE's and refusal/judgement lines plus procs of my gear.</P> <P>Strength is much needed to do steady autoattack damage and with the higher end eapons out there you can really put out the dps.  For those that are not close or maxxed out on intelligence but do have their aoe and other spells adept 3 or better, you see a very nice improvement on the crit increasers in the int path.  For most of my encounters i already have a large haste buff with gear i have on plus almost always with a haste buffer or 2 in the group.   If i had a wish in this new expansion, it would be to give us a double attack two hander line(not specific crusher/slasher/piercer but if two handed wielded) and a overall DPS increaser line.  There is no reason at all for us to not be able to do a ton of dps as a two hander, yet we have no supporting abilities to enhance us in that mode.<BR></P>

[Kaleyen]

I would love to see a double attack when using a 2-hander.<div></div>

[Fatuus]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> OrcSlayer96 wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Fatuus wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> holypaladin2819 wrote:<BR>no hes right for max DPS the INT crit line and the STA melee CRIT line are the way to go.<BR>you have to remeebr half our attacks are spell based <BR><BR><BR>think about it lets say you gear for max dps so STR and INT for your stat caps<BR><BR><BR>and you go down the AA lINE the int is either a 50-60 percent chance for CRIT spell damage. thats alot<BR><BR>then you go down the STA line put 8 in the crit melee line you have a 30-40 percent chance to CRIT damage <BR><BR>that alone is a huge increase in pally DPS <P>Message Edited by holypaladin2819 on <SPAN class=date_text>10-16-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:26 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Since a crit does about 20% more damage then a normal strike...by going down the int and sta lines like you said you are gaining about 10% more damage output overall on the parses.</P> <P>However, keep in mind that other aa lines do increase your damage output as well via buffs and abilities. By going down the STR lines I have myself perpetually hasted for an additional 40%...thats a greater chance that I can proc with my weapon and more then makes up for the sta crit line increase. I also got the 12% faster cast timer and recast reducer which allows me to nuke faster and harder on shorter fights. All said and done I parse routinely around 5 to 600 DPS on raids against single target mobs using ONLY a 1H weapon and can easily hit 1k dps against group mob encounters. If I had a nice 2h fabled Axe I would probably parse around 7 to 800 DPS and 1.1 to 1.2 k on encounter mobs.</P> <P>I agree that the Max Int line is a great way to go for DPS, but I can max INT at current INT caps without going that line and still maintain superior tankability without using the STA and INT lines.</P> <P>Message Edited by Fatuus on <SPAN class=date_text>10-17-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:35 PM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Fatuus on <SPAN class=date_text>10-17-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:37 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>In your situation, STR would be a very doable choice on the AA lines.  I guess the way i look at it for maxxing int and sta lines is more dps versus groups of mobs not single encounters.  The strength line is good for haste and taunting increases plus the decresed casting/recast time, but the majority of my damage is coming from my spells like my 6 AOE's and refusal/judgement lines plus procs of my gear.</P> <P>Strength is much needed to do steady autoattack damage and with the higher end eapons out there you can really put out the dps.  For those that are not close or maxxed out on intelligence but do have their aoe and other spells adept 3 or better, you see a very nice improvement on the crit increasers in the int path.  For most of my encounters i already have a large haste buff with gear i have on plus almost always with a haste buffer or 2 in the group.   If i had a wish in this new expansion, it would be to give us a double attack two hander line(not specific crusher/slasher/piercer but if two handed wielded) and a overall DPS increaser line.  There is no reason at all for us to not be able to do a ton of dps as a two hander, yet we have no supporting abilities to enhance us in that mode.<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I also had an another reason for going WIS and STR and that was to increase my overall base power pool. I have maxed out the amount of power I get from STR and WIS...so when EOF comes out I am looking forward to an increase in my base power pools too.

[ChopStix]

<P>kalgore...</P> <P> </P> <P> have you ever seen a beserker/guardian aa tree?  all they need to do is make the paladins aa Sta line the same as a beserker/guardian  instead of a buckler though, make the paladins sta line [if kite shield equipped] and the dps is fixed, and our power consumption problem would be fixed also....</P> <P> </P> <P>just  leave the hammer ground alone though, thats probably my favorite in that line ,besides the melee crits.. there was a raid of fp's in QH last weekend, very funny seeing about 90% of them on thier [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]'s from hammer ground..</P> <P> </P> <P>our last 2 skills in sta could be +mitigation and the last one be the power consumption just like the zerk/guardian</P>

[enjoilab]

heh last night i was 6th in the zone wide parse...just need to get a fabled 2 hander now...

[Vathranen]

<DIV> <P>I sure hope I'm one of the Paladins who quit, and not one of the sucky ones left on PvP <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Of course I probably didn't make the cut, being as I left at level 69. Just couldn't stomach another 80% xp of being a Paladin. You call it underdog, I call it suicide playing a Paladin in PvP. (I know sometimes you luck out and kill a scout, I say it's more a case of bad scout than good paladin haha)</P> <P>I went back to PvE and betrayed my 55 Paladin to Shadowknight and solo'd my way to 70 in two weeks with very little trouble. The reason the Shadowknight outdamages the Paladin is because of the class difference. Think about it. If you could trade your lay on hands, ward, and three heals in for Lifetaps and DoTs don't you think you'd be doing a tad more damage (all the while keeping yourself healed equally as well)? The major difference between a Paladin and a Shadowknight is that the Paladin can heal his group very well, but the Shadowknight loses that ability in return for better lifetapping and utility (making Shadowknight quite a good soloer). All that plus evac and feign death is a nice soloing package.</P> <P>Bottom line, if you're both in Adept 3 / Master 1 spells the Shadowknight will do more damage than you. That's what he gets in return for not being able to heal his group.</P> <P>Of course, bear in mind as well that a Shadowknight only has to invest in the Spell Crit AA ability and his heals crit as well on Lifetap, that's 8 points saved over the Paladin who wants heal crits <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P></DIV>

[enjoilab]

<DIV>i just got dreadnaught and my group that i pvp with is massive... i got the 2 hander from dt that spawns little lions talk about f'n sweet!!</DIV>

[Kaleyen]

Which 2 hander is that?  I got a 2 hand spear from DT last night...looks so much better then Har'la dar's Axe IMO. <div></div>

[Wulfborne]

<P>I believe he's referring to Pride's Edge or something similar.</P> <P>~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul</P>

[enjoilab]

ya Pride's Edge....btw all you raiding pallies what is the best 2 hander?

[Wulfborne]

I use the Axe of the Overlord. Nice big hits, an axe that allows me to get higher haste (str line), proc's an ae taunt, and a slow enough delay that even with the haste I can easily time my CA's between auto-attack swings to get nice dps.That's my personal choice.~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul<div></div>