Amends

[uberpaco]

<DIV>I'm currently a Shadowknight and I have been looking at the other side of the fence for sometime now.<BR>(yes the grass is always greener on the other side)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One thing I have some problems with is hate and I started to discuss this with a paladin last night.<BR>As the palladin is a john doe to me I'm here now too verify what he was saying cause it sounds just too good.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When he is tanking in a group he puts Amends on the monk and then the monk starts to taunt like he is the one going to tank.<BR>Amends puts (40%?) of the monks hate on the paladin on top of his own taunts, which has the effect the palladin never looses aggro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Does this really work? Is it supposed to work like this?</DIV>

[FlintAH]

yes<div></div>

[gaitano]

<div></div>I have tried this a few times, and it was successful each time. Having said that, they were pick-up groups so wasn't familiar with the DPS char (wizard and assassin most notably) and how well they played,  they could have been used to watching there hate gain and it was nothing I had to worry about. On another note,  it is potentially safer to do it this way as if you are going to lose agro you will lose it to a tank who can take more hits.  I plan and doing this more in the future when I can. Although, most times when I join a group the DPS are all requesting I put it on them and to save agruing over it I put it them.Read this discussion as it is discussed in here as well, both for and against the idea.<a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=10&message.id=29071" target="_blank">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=10&message.id=29071</a><div></div>

[Anesi]

<div></div>I went from Shadowknight to Paladin and I've enjoyed the change. While its less damage, I'm finding myself dying less and just having more fun. Its nice also to pop a group heal to help on aggro gain where using the aoe isn't an option and a better ward since it prevents damage not just heals the caster when the person is hit.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Anesi on <span class=date_text>10-02-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:15 AM</span>

[Matheos]

<DIV> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Basically yes, although this could be the start of a 10 page thread about the relative merits, uses and limitations of Amends.</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>At Adept III the hate transfer is 39% and Master 1 it is 42%. it's a lvl 42 spell so only needs a tier 5 loam to upgrade but a master will set you back a huge amount of platinum.</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Because of Amends a paladin doesn't get a huge amount of other hate generating abilities, 2 taunts (one a divine debuff and one a taunt over time) and a shield bash that increases hate are about it. We have rescue of course as all the fighters do and the first expansion pack DoF gave us an ancient teachings spell called Sigil of Heroes which is a short duration long recast group hate siphon (about 25%). </FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>This means the choice target for amends is absolutely key to your success at holding Aggro. First off the person who has Amends needs to understand that it is their job to generate as much hate as possible. You should also be able to balance your group make up with the encounter types you are facing. For classes that specialise in single target damage or for single mob encounters generally go for the highest DPS class. However if you are facing group encounters and have say a warlock on board I would definitely throw Amends on the warlock. These are very general comments and there are certain classes and certain abilities that will still steal aggro from you if you get is slightly wrong or the other player doesn't understand about aggro control. An example of this would be a group containing a wizard and a brigand. The brigand normally gains hate very quickly and puts out a lot of DPS so typically he get Amends however the wizard has one ability called Fusion (9-12k damage) which will cause a huge spike in hate and if they use early in the fight will almost always get them aggro. However if you put amends on the wizard the Brigand will grab hate almost straight out of the gate because the wizard is a slow cast DPS and takes awhile to build up. </FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>I guess what I am saying is that you just need to get a feel for the abilities of the people you are grouped with and the encounters you are facing to know where best to point Amends.</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff><SPAN>By the way if you do swap to Paladin be prepared to say good bye to the SK DPS. When you are set up to tank Pally’s are not exactly killing machines, we leave that to the other classes :smileywink:</SPAN></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff><SPAN></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by MatheosII on <span class=date_text>10-02-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:31 PM</span>

[TheBu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> uberpaco wrote:<BR> <DIV>I'm currently a Shadowknight and I have been looking at the other side of the fence for sometime now.<BR>(yes the grass is always greener on the other side)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One thing I have some problems with is hate and I started to discuss this with a paladin last night.<BR>As the palladin is a john doe to me I'm here now too verify what he was saying cause it sounds just too good.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When he is tanking in a group he puts Amends on the monk and then the monk starts to taunt like he is the one going to tank.<BR>Amends puts (40%?) of the monks hate on the paladin on top of his own taunts, which has the effect the palladin never looses aggro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Does this really work? Is it supposed to work like this?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Yes Amends agro transfers from another tank or say a shadownight to the pally. Did it with a gardian the other day..  big tuff 64 with his master taunts.. me a little pally 54..  Freaked him out..  that i could keep taking his agro. oh i did ask him first if i could try to steal the agro...</P> <P> </P> <P>Also like MatheosII said we also have Sigil of Heroes short duration 2m recast group hate siphon (about 25%). </P> <P>MatheosII also makes a good point about the brigs and wizards.. and telling the one with amends that they must keep up the dps.</P> <P>Before you switch tho...  ther appears to be a problem when u have more than one hate transfer going. Nothing gets the wizard agro faster than casting thier own agro transfer on the pally who has amends on them. it seems to break the amends transfer.. couple other scouts have agro transfers aswell.</P><p>Message Edited by TheBuzZ on <span class=date_text>10-02-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:53 AM</span>

[uberpaco]

Thanks all for the input and info<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TheBuzZ wrote:<BR> <P>Yes Amends agro transfers from another tank or say a shadownight to the pally. Did it with a gardian the other day..  big tuff 64 with his master taunts.. me a little pally 54..  Freaked him out..  that i could keep taking his agro. oh i did ask him first if i could try to steal the agro...</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>:smileyvery-happy: Hillarious

[tiger911]

If you do have another tank in the group, they would be the best choice to put amends on if you are going to be the MT. Just have them taunting the whole time as you are, 41% of their taunts goto you, including rescue, so its easy to peel off the mob even if he/she rescued it. Sigil is also very useful, at master 1, 36% of the entire group's hate for 15 seconds definetly does help, especially about 10-15 seconds into the fight when you have Wizzys that love to Fusion/Ice Nova at the start and Assassins that love to Decapitate at the start. However, with the extra avoidance a monk/bruiser gives you along with a decent haste gain, they are probably a real good option to have in your group and have them taunting with them amends.

[khufure]

<div><blockquote><hr>MatheosII wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <div> <p><span><font color="#ffffff">Basically yes, although this could be the start of a 10 page thread about the relative merits, uses and limitations of Amends.</font></span></p> <p><span><font color="#ffffff">At Adept III the hate transfer is 39% and Master 1 it is 42%. it's a lvl 42 spell so only needs a tier 5 loam to upgrade but a master will set you back a huge amount of platinum.</font></span></p> <p><span><font color="#ffffff">Because of Amends a paladin doesn't get a huge amount of other hate generating abilities, 2 taunts (one a divine debuff and one a taunt over time) and a shield bash that increases hate are about it. We have rescue of course as all the fighters do and the first expansion pack DoF gave us an ancient teachings spell called Sigil of Heroes which is a short duration long recast group hate siphon (about 25%). </font></span></p> <p><span><font color="#ffffff">This means the choice target for amends is absolutely key to your success at holding Aggro. First off the person who has Amends needs to understand that it is their job to generate as much hate as possible. You should also be able to balance your group make up with the encounter types you are facing. For classes that specialise in single target damage or for single mob encounters generally go for the highest DPS class. However if you are facing group encounters and have say a warlock on board I would definitely throw Amends on the warlock. These are very general comments and there are certain classes and certain abilities that will still steal aggro from you if you get is slightly wrong or the other player doesn't understand about aggro control. An example of this would be a group containing a wizard and a brigand. The brigand normally gains hate very quickly and puts out a lot of DPS so typically he get Amends however the wizard has one ability called Fusion (9-12k damage) which will cause a huge spike in hate and if they use early in the fight will almost always get them aggro. However if you put amends on the wizard the Brigand will grab hate almost straight out of the gate because the wizard is a slow cast DPS and takes awhile to build up. </font></span></p> <p><span><font color="#ffffff">I guess what I am saying is that you just need to get a feel for the abilities of the people you are grouped with and the encounters you are facing to know where best to point Amends.</font></span></p> <p><font color="#ffffff"><span>By the way if you do swap to Paladin be prepared to say good bye to the SK DPS. When you are set up to tank Pally’s are not exactly killing machines, we leave that to the other classes :smileywink:</span></font></p> <p><font color="#ffffff"><span></span></font> </p></div> <div> </div><p>Message Edited by MatheosII on <span class="date_text">10-02-2006</span> <span class="time_text">03:31 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Agree with most of this.  But the spell is T6, and its 41% at M1.  Also we have 1 group taunt (which is also a big divine debuff!), single taunt, shield bash (more powerful than single taunt), rescue, sigil of heroism (short recast group hate transfer), and we can ward ourselves for about a taunt worth of hate.  I count the ward as a secondary taunt because it is pretty effective.  Our two special taunts (amends & sigil) let us keep aggro without a hitch.From a combat perspective we are pretty weak.  Full defensive I average 500dps (zone) with a legendary weapon and adpt3 CAs.  (~450 in a group without raid buffs).   Paladins have pretty good AEs, second to the zerker for tank class.  We have 2 good AEs on short timers, 2 interesting AEs on longer timers, 1 repeating power-drain AE on a long timer, and one interesting AE that turns damage over time 'dots' on us into an AE lightning bolt for each one on us.Add it all up and we have the best group aggro in the game and the worst tank dps in the game.  Our dps is so bad that warrior buckler reversal alone will sometimes out damage us.  Well it feels like it anyway <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  Raid wise we are buggy (amends&sigil) and thus not preferable for MT.  However, our utility and extra spells make us nice 2nd tanks, and when it all works its pretty interesting.  In the expansion with the raised caps we may be in the MT group again regularly due to our mitigation buff.</div>

[khufure]

<div><blockquote><hr>tiger911 wrote:<div></div>If you do have another tank in the group, they would be the best choice to put amends on if you are going to be the MT. Just have them taunting the whole time as you are, 41% of their taunts goto you, including rescue, so its easy to peel off the mob even if he/she rescued it. Sigil is also very useful, at master 1, 36% of the entire group's hate for 15 seconds definetly does help, especially about 10-15 seconds into the fight when you have Wizzys that love to Fusion/Ice Nova at the start and Assassins that love to Decapitate at the start. However, with the extra avoidance a monk/bruiser gives you along with a decent haste gain, they are probably a real good option to have in your group and have them taunting with them amends.<hr></blockquote>The goal of not losing agro is to avoid letting people die.  I usually stick amends on a squishy even if I lose aggro to brigands or brawlers.   They can always FD, transfer back, or take a few hits.That having been said anyone that fusions/decapitate/sniper shot/etc. to start deserves to die.</div>

[enjoilab]

if i have any warlock in my group amends him first! rift causes mad aggro

[Turb]

Remember too the ward is a reactive taunt, the only one we get.Zerks and guards get much better innate reactives, but self-warding is useful to generate hate even if you're stunned or stifled.

[MeridianR]

Sigh - Amends is T5, it is a L47 spell, and as stated above @ Master 1 it does 41% xfer.To answer the original question, I normally use it on Bruisers (mainly because they generate more aggro then monks) but it will work on any tank.  Should it be your primary means of aggro control, probably not....but it will help out if you have no other choices for amends.  <div></div>

[OrcSlayer96]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MeridianR wrote:<BR>Sigh - Amends is T5, it is a L47 spell, and as stated above @ Master 1 it does 41% xfer.<BR><BR>To answer the original question, I normally use it on Bruisers (mainly because they generate more aggro then monks) but it will work on any tank.  Should it be your primary means of aggro control, probably not....but it will help out if you have no other choices for amends.  <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I hear ya bud, in group mob situations, a master 1 Amends on a fabled Warlock is a ton of agro coming to you.  In single mob affairs or where you have your friendly enchanter mezzing the mobs first, i love tossing amends on a fellow monk for stable, precise agro.  Places like Nizara, i like to preward, the open with sigil,group taunt, so when those blasted nagas hit you with machine gun mezes, you keep agro better while allowing the nukers a uninterrupted dps time.  Most other zones i save Sigil for a little later in the fight if we recieve adds or the crits are flying too much.  It suprises me when i see many paladins not use their full AOE abilities and rely only on Amends/Sigil.  With INT and STR buffed, we can put some insane agro out firing off our ~6 AOE's off and half of them are on quick recast timers.</P> <P>I still chuckle when a pickup group is suprised that i can rez a body in the middle of combat, while holding agro and then toss out a heal to somebody in the span of a few seconds.  If you have a dirge/assassin/swashie/coercer handy the agro is usually a lock.<BR></P>