Fabled Brigand vs Fabled pally

[Ai yo]

<DIV>Hi all,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Recently i think that pally need a serious fix up as I as pally cant tank some raid mob like the one in Lcyuem with 4 add - sry i forget the epic x 4 name...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I remeber i did tank it fail like 2-3 times but the brigand friend did it on 1 pull. He tanked the named while having another tank to pull the encounter. And he tanked the named till it dies...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I so disappointed with myself wonder if i should go for some raid tanking lesson lol or pally is just no as good as a brigand in terms of tanking. - make me fell like quiting imao.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I did some checking in grp as same grp with brigand we hav similar mitigation - mine is only like 200 more then him tho.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was wondering how could he did that in terms of tanking better then pally. Should pally get fix?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SOE team of designer should ..... lol</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[RaistNA]

<P>what was your gear/stats at?  What was your group make up?</P> <P>Iv tanked Gnillaw plenty of times, and never really had issues.  He hits hard and is a lot of burst damage, just gotta prepare for that.  Other then his bursts hes rather wussy.</P>

[PolarBear77]

<P>HAHHA funny stuff, yes we can tank it..... i just did last night ... you have to burn the adds superfast/charm them simply put.. and i don't have that BS Divine Auara.. and im not uber geared... i have mostly relic with a few perks. the only thing i can think of is </P> <P>1) healers realy might need to be parsed to see who is slacking </P> <P>2) pally gear/resist were horriable</P> <P>3) the pally doesn't know how to play his class </P> <P>don't get me wrong im not tring to look like a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] here. It just makes me laugh when ppl scream we suck we suck we can't tank anything blah blah blah  well i beg to differ..... i have tank just about all the t7 mobs in the game except matron (have been givent the chance yet) and MO. so it has and CAN be done .. not like im the first to do this either. There is a long list of pally that im sure has done it long be for me  /shrug.       instance mobs = weaksauce </P>

[Fatuus]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ai yo wrote:<BR> <DIV>Hi all,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Recently i think that pally need a serious fix up as I as pally cant tank some raid mob like the one in Lcyuem with 4 add - sry i forget the epic x 4 name...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I remeber i did tank it fail like 2-3 times but the brigand friend did it on 1 pull. He tanked the named while having another tank to pull the encounter. And he tanked the named till it dies...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I so disappointed with myself wonder if i should go for some raid tanking lesson lol or pally is just no as good as a brigand in terms of tanking. - make me fell like quiting imao.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I did some checking in grp as same grp with brigand we hav similar mitigation - mine is only like 200 more then him tho.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was wondering how could he did that in terms of tanking better then pally. Should pally get fix?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SOE team of designer should ..... lol</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Ummm....ummmmmmmm......If you are wearing all fabled, and the brigand is wearing all fabled....your MIT difference is going to be WAY more then 200 mit.....</P> <P>Nuff....said....</P>

[Canel]

<P>I think either your brigand was amazingly decked in Mit gear-when you tanked your healers were healing BS-your dps wasnt killing the adds fast enough-and you werent getting any hate feeds/enough hate from amends (if you havn't had it on a wizzie-do that massive AoE hate)</P> <P> </P> <P>And if you were tanking that while only in a 200 mit diff--dude go get some better armor-</P> <P> </P> <P>Sry for the harshness-but thats just what I think is true</P>

[Jeffmaster]

<P>That is of course problematic although given the right circumstances ...a VERY well equiped Brig can touch pretty high numbers in mitig and avoidance. that plus a taunt and aoe taunt(sta line) can make us a very good alternative for certain situations....but a Paly will always be better for tanking just the plate and hate control that is easier. Retry what you have done and come give some news.</P>

[Rob89]

<P>Have in mind. Some mobs are designed to be tanked by a certain class.</P> <P>Princes is a good example. Vyemm aswell. In general Paladins stays alive alot longer, i dont know why but always when we whipes the mob just blast throu the raid and slams everyone except when it comes to me, good 4-6 sec untill im down. And im full T7 fabled.</P>

[Hamervelder]

One problem is that fabled chain armor, specifically the class-specific stuff, is just over-powered.  I was looking at fabled chain on an assassin tonight, and it had over 500 mitigation, and better stats than my fabled plate breastplate.  My plate bp only has like 550 mitigation.  I think it's a bit overboard for chain to basically be as good as plate, all things being equal.  To top that off, he probably has better avoidance than you do, being a scout, and he cranks out a hell of a lot more damage.  I can see how a well-equipped scout can tank some pretty awesome encounters.  It shouldn't be that way, but it is.<div></div>

[JarredDarque]

<P>A brigand with the proper gear and proper AA set up can top 5200 mitigation and 65% avoidance,  still out DPS almost anyone else on a raid, and have over 8500hp.  Solo.  BTW.   As in, I group with him,  we let him tank,  since we can put him over 10k hitpoints and over the mit cap.  and almost to the avoid cap.</P> <P>Only thing he lacks in is hate gain.  not as many taunts.</P>

[Crib92]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JarredDarque wrote:<BR> <P>A brigand with the proper gear and proper AA set up can top 5200 mitigation and 65% avoidance,  still out DPS almost anyone else on a raid, and have over 8500hp.  Solo.  BTW.   As in, I group with him,  we let him tank,  since we can put him over 10k hitpoints and over the mit cap.  and almost to the avoid cap.</P> <P>Only thing he lacks in is hate gain.  not as many taunts.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I suspect that this is a bit over the top.  If you are setting up your brigand to tank then you are not optimizing him for dps.  I would rather have a tricked out brigand owning [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] rather then trying to make him into a tank.  </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Hamervelder]

I don't doubt that it's true.  My swashbuckler has no trouble tanking at all.  He can hold agro on encounters where paladins and sk's have lost it, and I've stepped in and said "Hey, let me try, what's the harm?"  The swashy has almost as much mitigation and more avoidance than most crusaders, and does 3x the damage.  My thought is this:  Plate wearers need some love.  Especially considering how absolutely unbalanced fabled T7 chain items are, you really don't need a plate tank except for the toughest mobs.  A well-equipped rogue can (and will) tank just about any non-epic mob with relative ease.  Plate armor needs to have more mitigation, and plate tanks need our taunts buffed up some.  As I said, it's gotten to the point where it's just riduculous... why bother taking a crusader (and in some cases a warrior) to tank, when I can take a rogue who can hold agro better, and do more damage at the same time?<div></div>

[FlintAH]

A paladin can tank that.  I havent seen a mob yet that a paladin cant tank.  And only one I havent tried tanking is Matron and Chel'drak.  If you die then your healers, group setup and/or your gear sucks [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].<div></div>

[Arraza]

100% agree, our Swashie has higher mit and avoidence than I have and of course does more damage.  I really feel lame when we compare stats.  Finding decent plate gear is very difficult, and chain seems easier to come by.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Hamervelder wrote:<BR>I don't doubt that it's true.  My swashbuckler has no trouble tanking at all.  He can hold agro on encounters where paladins and sk's have lost it, and I've stepped in and said "Hey, let me try, what's the harm?"  The swashy has almost as much mitigation and more avoidance than most crusaders, and does 3x the damage.  <BR><BR>My thought is this:  Plate wearers need some love.  Especially considering how absolutely unbalanced fabled T7 chain items are, you really don't need a plate tank except for the toughest mobs.  A well-equipped rogue can (and will) tank just about any non-epic mob with relative ease.  Plate armor needs to have more mitigation, and plate tanks need our taunts buffed up some.  As I said, it's gotten to the point where it's just riduculous... why bother taking a crusader (and in some cases a warrior) to tank, when I can take a rogue who can hold agro better, and do more damage at the same time?<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Lairdragna]

We have a level 70 swashy in the guild with a couple pieces of relic and the rest mastercrafted/legendary... he matches my mitigation with me in 6 pieces of T7 fabled plate and one pieces of awakened scalelord... he of course kills me in avoidance.  His health and power are on par and he does hella dps... with the right poisons he can gain aggro or drop it.  It is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ed up and completely unbalanced.  Even he admits he needs to be beaten senseless with the nerf bat.<div></div>

[Hamervelder]

<div><blockquote><hr>Lairdragna wrote:We have a level 70 swashy in the guild with a couple pieces of relic and the rest mastercrafted/legendary... he matches my mitigation with me in 6 pieces of T7 fabled plate and one pieces of awakened scalelord... he of course kills me in avoidance.  His health and power are on par and he does hella dps... with the right poisons he can gain aggro or drop it.  It is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ed up and completely unbalanced.  Even he admits he needs to be beaten senseless with the nerf bat.<div></div><hr></blockquote>I don't think it's so much that scouts need to be nerfed, it's that plate wearers, especially crusaders, need to be un-nerfed.  We pretty much got neutered in LU13, and have never recovered.</div>

[Crib92]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Hamervelder wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lairdragna wrote:<BR>We have a level 70 swashy in the guild with a couple pieces of relic and the rest mastercrafted/legendary... he matches my mitigation with me in 6 pieces of T7 fabled plate and one pieces of awakened scalelord... he of course kills me in avoidance.  His health and power are on par and he does hella dps... with the right poisons he can gain aggro or drop it.  It is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ed up and completely unbalanced.  Even he admits he needs to be beaten senseless with the nerf bat.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I don't think it's so much that scouts need to be nerfed, it's that plate wearers, especially crusaders, need to be un-nerfed.  We pretty much got neutered in LU13, and have never recovered.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>To be politically correct that would be Neutered and Spade.  :smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

[PolarBear77]

What all happened in LU13 i always hear about it ....i statred playing when KoS firsrt came out so i wasn't around when lvl cap was 50 and 60...... i asked some of the older pally's and basically they said we got our dps nerfed and they where being to lazy to go into it in any further detail so if somone could do a breif list of changes it would be much love ....... oh and keep in mind it isn't just any kind of love .......... it's Ogre  = D

[RaistNA]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> PolarBear77 wrote:<BR> What all happened in LU13 i always hear about it ....i statred playing when KoS firsrt came out so i wasn't around when lvl cap was 50 and 60...... i asked some of the older pally's and basically they said we got our dps nerfed and they where being to lazy to go into it in any further detail so if somone could do a breif list of changes it would be much love ....... oh and keep in mind it isn't just any kind of love .......... it's Ogre  = D<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>our dps got nurfed...our rez got nurfed (i think it use to be something awsome like 15 second recast).  Several of our stats got nerfed (while some say we tanked better right after it, i think we tanked worse...but that was just me).</P> <P> </P> <P>It was a huge change to the game mechanics overall that effected us largely.  Hard to get into it all.</P>

[Lairdragna]

Basically LU13 made paladins... well crusaders in general... teh suk<div></div>

[Hamervelder]

<div><blockquote><hr>PolarBear77 wrote:<div></div>What all happened in LU13 i always hear about it ....i statred playing when KoS firsrt came out so i wasn't around when lvl cap was 50 and 60...... i asked some of the older pally's and basically they said we got our dps nerfed and they where being to lazy to go into it in any further detail so if somone could do a breif list of changes it would be much love ....... oh and keep in mind it isn't just any kind of love .......... it's Ogre  = D<hr></blockquote>LU13 basically, for crusaders, cut our dps in half.  I wish I could find the screens I saved, so you could see the difference... I took one of my stats before the servers went down, and then another one after LU13 went live.  I lost over 1k hp and power each, lost mitigation and avoidance.  Half of the paladins' dps was gone.  Pally heals were nerfed.  I didn't play a SK before LU13, so I don't know how badly that side of the crusader line was hit, but paladins were hit hard.  I mean hard.  We used to get a STR/STA buff.  That was taken away, as were a couple of spell-based attacks.  So, in short, here's what LU13 did for paladins:-Less health-Less power-Less mitigation-Less avoidance-Less healing potential-Reduced ability to fight long fights, as our CA's and spells took more power, but we had less to draw from-Drastically increased casting times.  (Oath Strike, anyone?)-Loss of several spells-Loss of several buffsIMO, you should be glad you didn't play before LU13, which was part of Desert of Flames.  The change in many classes was just overwhelming.  So overwhelming, in fact, that I actually quit playing the characters I'd been playing, and rolled new classes, so that I could get used to the combat changes, and then go back and relearn my old classes.</div>

[RaistNA]

now that sounds a tad dramatic...they also changed all encounters in the game to reflect these changes.....<div></div>

[Lairdragna]

They may have changed the encounters, but it was not a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] for tat change and we did come out worse for the wear.<div></div>

[FlintAH]

They also made wards more powerful and take into acct mitigation.  Unless you were a dumbtard and didnt upgrade your gear and skills there wasnt much difference.<div></div>

[MeridianR]

Pre LU13 we were mainly DPS, and group tanks.  No way would we raid tank due to stacking buffs, and classes that made Guardians invincible mainly.Post LU13 we were made better tanks, better healers, and less dps.A Rogue who goes tanking over the dps route might be the dumbest person in the world....both classes are so overpowered dps wise right now, that they need to be dropped from a bridge if they setup to go defensive.<div></div>

[Hamervelder]

<blockquote><hr>Lairdragna wrote:They may have changed the encounters, but it was not a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] for tat change and we did come out worse for the wear.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Indeed.  We came out much worse for the wear, IMO.  I was lvl 42 or so when LU13 came out.  Pre-LU13, I could take on multiple groups of non-heroic lvl 38 lizardmen, with little trouble.  Post LU13, I would get killed by <i>one</i> non-herioc group.  Of course, after some trial and error, I learned new ways to do things, and overcame the limitations that had been introduced.  But to say that encounters were changed to match our changes would be far-fetched at best.   <div></div>

[TorturedOne21]

<P>I seem to remember the largest change in LU13 was that heroic mobs were made dramatically tougher. I was in my 20's, and after LU13 came out I was wondering why I was getting stomped by certain mobs which I used to take on easily. That was when I began paying attention to what was heroic and what was not <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Canel]

yea...post LU13 I almost quit the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] game cause I was so [Removed for Content] fed up with the nerfs--I mean, I used to be able to gank green/blue heroics in mediocer armor/app1/adept1 spells/CA's pre LU13 :/ LU13 was the stupidest move SoE had ever made in truth (save DoF)