Paladin and Dual Weild - once again

[adolf102]

I did some searches on forums and this topic was discussed before but I was unable to find clear answer.The question is can Paladins dueal weild?I'm level 40 paladin now and I'm able to equip two dual weild weapons. But it works bit awkward. Like to equipd weapon in off-hand I need to drag it from main hand slot. I can not drag weapon directly to off hand slot from inventory.Am I exploiting some bug or paladin actully are allowed to dual weild?Thanks in advance for reply.<div></div>

[Turb]

Paladins don't dual wield, but we can wield a single dual wield in one hand.

[adolf102]

So how to explain the fact that I actully do dual weild? Is it a bug/exploit then?<div></div>

[Velius2820]

I just tested this and can confirm i am a dual wielding level 12 pally.  It has to be a bug because paladins shouldnt be able to dual wield, until it is fixed i will be leveling weapon skills in a quick fashion =)<div></div>

[Silverpaws]

Do you mean you are using 2 weapons at the same time?  Or do you mean you have a duel weild weapon in your primary and a totem in your secondary?  It may give the illusion you are duel weilding, but you are not.  What weapons do you have equipped at the same time?<div></div>

[adolf102]

<div></div>You can use any dual weild weapon in off hand as well as main hand. Yes seems to be bug. I did cut ticket to GMs we will see what reply I will get.I took some screen shots so I will post them later. As it surly won't last hehe<div></div><p>Message Edited by adolf102 on <span class=date_text>09-24-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:47 PM</span>

[adolf102]

There you go:To be honest I wouldn't mind some thanks or something for discovering a bug. Took quite some afford to actully get in touch with GM and explain that I do dual weil with my paladin.And I got broke buying dual weild weapons which ones I will not use when the bug will get fixed. Ah tough luck. Case a:<img src="http://www.y76.eu/bug/a.jpg">Case b:<img src="http://www.y76.eu/bug/b.jpg"><div></div>And chat with GM:<img src="http://www.y76.eu/bug/c.jpg">

[fang101]

<DIV>ya geez I tried it out I do a ton more dps. Wish would stay like this </DIV>

[Hamervelder]

I've never liked the fact that crusaders can't dual-wield.  It's just another one of those "We're going to restrict this just for the sake of restricting it" things that SOE is famous for.  All fighters should be able to dual wield if they want.  If I, as an SK, want to dual wield, that should be my choice.<div></div>

[Gwydion20]

<DIV><EM>"To be honest I wouldn't mind some thanks or something for discovering a bug. Took quite some afford to actully get in touch with GM and explain that I do dual weil with my paladin."</EM></DIV> <P><EM></EM> </P> <P>I feel more inclined to estrangle you instead of thanking you :smileywink:. Paladin is working as intended so please don't troll the boards he he he.</P> <P>Repeat with me: PALADINS CAN'T DUAL WIELD, PALADINS CAN'T DUAL WIELD, PALADINS CAN'T DUAL WIELD.<BR><BR></P> <P>Message Edited by Gwydion2000 on <SPAN class=date_text>09-25-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:02 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Gwydion2000 on <span class=date_text>09-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:08 AM</span>

[Rob89]

<P>PLZ!!!!! WHY did you report it!? WHY WHY WHY?!</P> <P>Now they gonna fix it for sure! [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]!! </P> <P>Worked perfect for me and i got 800-1400 dps on raids! SHHHHHHHH!</P>

[adolf102]

You are disgrace to Paladins order. Paladin hiding the trurth?! Be damned forever!<div></div>

[Crib92]

<P>LOL I may have to show up to tonights raid set up duel wield and ask to be put in a dps group.  </P> <P>I guess I shouldn't report our AOE immunity then...</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Gwydion20]

<DIV>You are disgrace to Paladins order. Paladin hiding the trurth?! Be damned forever!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!<BR></DIV>

[fang101]

<DIV>Think im gonna cry when I see *Paladins can now not duel-weild* on update notes. :smileysad:</DIV>

[tiger911]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> fang101 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Think im gonna cry when I see *Paladins can now not duel-weild* on update notes. :smileysad:</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>OMG, NO WHY OH WHY WAS THIS REPORTED?

[Scadie]

Paladin´s can´t dual wield.. what are you talking about..  :smileywink:

[Wulfborne]

<P>Do you guys actually *hit* with both weapons, or is it just a graphical bug that is showing you holding the weaps, but you never actually hit with the offhand?</P> <P>~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul</P>

[adolf102]

You actully hit and actully do impressive damage with all the paladins skills that have per cent chance to activate on hit.Funny thing was like I had to say to this GM 3 times that I actuly dual weild to get any other reply that "You can not dual weild but you can use 2handed weapon" while I was standing there good few minutes dual weilding... <div></div>

[OrcSlayer96]

<DIV>Hmm i tried several different dual wield weapons last night and they all said the same thing to me when i tried to drag to the secondary slot:  cannot drag item to this slot.  I have no idea why some of you can dual wield(PVP?) but i have never been able to dual wield, only use a single dual wield if i needed a low delay weapon.  It would be cool to dual wield, but i would prefer some class bonus to more two handed damage for a niche in fighter dps.</DIV>

[Hamervelder]

It's not just paladins.  My SK and my fury both can also dual wield.  I'm sure it will bet "fixed" soon, but it's fun for now.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Gwydion20]

we have to end this thread NOW.

[Gwydion20]

<DIV><EM>"You actully hit and actully do impressive damage with all the paladins skills that have per cent chance to activate on hit"</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV>False, i've tested it and those procs just work on the main hand. I'm still thinking is just a "visual" bug.</DIV>

[dubbs]

<P>You can easily see if both weapons are doing damage by equipping one slasher and one crushing weapon and see if both types of damage are showing up on logs.</P> <P>I'm at work or I'd test it out to see which one is the case.</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by dubbs on <span class=date_text>09-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:58 PM</span>

[adolf102]

There is a little trick with equiping weapons which allow you to equip offhand. I discovered it by accident.But don't want to post here what is this trick as it might be taken as posting how to for exploit.<div></div>

[RaistNA]

ok dude who reported this, im sorry but [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] is wrong with u.  Their response is enough to show u that they DONT CARE.  If you leave it be, they wont change it and eventually the bug will become 'the norm' and be concidered working as intended.  You may have just single handedly broke any chance we ever had at having duel wield in the future.  so for that, i say CONGRATZ TO YOU.  Now stop reporting stuff

[Nocifer Deathblade]

Wow, nice to hear that from so-called paladin who insulted OP for reporting the bug as honorable paladin should do.. Welcome to dark side of crusader called SK, Raistlin as supposed to as black wizard from Dragonlance. /evil grins.<p>Message Edited by Nocifer Deathblade on <span class=date_text>09-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:45 AM</span>

[RaistNA]

<P>no relation to raistlin (<3 the random generator for naming, some good stuff comes outa there).</P> <P>And who cares if we are a paladin.  Dont report stuff unless it truly F's the game up.  THIS was minor in the big picture.  It's the Sk's that really got the boost with it imo.  One of our Sk's wanted to test it out the other night, i need to go relook at parsers but he broke 2k a few times in Lyceum i believe duel wielding...forgot what he had tho..wurmslayer and something else.</P>

[Silverpaws]

<div><blockquote><hr>RaistNA wrote:<div></div> <p>no relation to raistlin (<3 the random generator for naming, some good stuff comes outa there).</p> <p>And who cares if we are a paladin.  Dont report stuff unless it truly F's the game up.  THIS was minor in the big picture.  It's the Sk's that really got the boost with it imo.  One of our Sk's wanted to test it out the other night, i need to go relook at parsers but he broke 2k a few times in Lyceum i believe duel wielding...forgot what he had tho..wurmslayer and something else.</p><hr></blockquote>Yes, because that is how stuff gets fixed.  Not reporting it. /boggleKnowingly doing something in game that is not allowed, from quest duping, using duel cores to increase your run speed, to duel wielding when you arent supposed to is an exploit.  And even saying "but officer... I didnt know the speed limit was only 25" isnt an option either.  You know you cant duel wield from the get go.  Actively attempting to use abilities you are not supposed to use is exploiting.  Not to be a party pooper, but he did the right thing, even if we all wish we could duel wield.I would look uber sexy with 2 duel wield weapons <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.... maybe someday.../sigh</div>

[Cobblestoned]

<P>I just dont understand some of you. If you find something you KNOW is a bug you report it as such. Doesn't matter how good it is. If you don't you are EXPLOITING it. And if you EXPLOIT a bug you are cheating period.</P> <P> </P> <P>Good job reporting it man. Even if it doesn't matter or doesn't get fixed, you did the right thing. Besides, who ever heard of a duel wielding Pally. Just doesnt make sense.</P>

[Gwydion20]

Bah this bug has made my paladin fun again for me. When it gets fixed i will go back to my dirge alter, a much more fun char than the borked pally who has been reduced to the typical "doesn't shine at anything" SOE character. Will they ever give us an AA to double attack or something?

[JarredDarque]

<DIV>OP, thanks for reporting it, seriously.  Even if Raist diagrees with you, it was teh right thing to do..some people like to call it..integrity.  Raist, get some <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Either way,  I am gonna get some dang DWs for tonights AoA raid if it is still working.</DIV>

[Wulfborne]

It was still working last time i tried it, but quite honestly I am not super impressed.Maybe I don't have ideal weapons to try it out with (I got a couple legendary ones) but I still do about 200 DPS more with my fabled 2-Hander.~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul<div></div>

[Gwydion20]

<DIV>Yes, it's nothing game breaking.</DIV>

[Nocifer Deathblade]

DWing serves pure melees better than it serves crusaders due to the nature of crusader's melee+magic combo. Spell usually takes longer to cast than melee CAs would and it handicaps crusaders even more if they use fast attacking DWs than slow attacking DWs.. 2h generally is better than DW for crusaders due to the fact that most 2h has slow delays that usually is longer than our spell cast time..  It's ok for pure melees to use fast attacking DWs considering that almost all of their CAs are in 0.5 sec cast time..

[OrcSlayer96]

<DIV>Of course on the other side, when crusaders burn thru their power on a extended battle they can have more damage relying on occasional heal or ward then letting the dual wields do the damage.  The problem i see so far for crusaders is that we have no inherant bonus or AA that makes our 2 hander weapon shine.  With the restricted weapon state we have and lack of double attack, we should have a healthy bonus using a 2 hander.  Maybe that is addressed in EOF, i truely hope so.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Nocifer Deathblade]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> OrcSlayer96 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Of course on the other side, when crusaders burn thru their power on a extended battle they can have more damage relying on occasional heal or ward then letting the dual wields do the damage.  The problem i see so far for crusaders is that we have no inherant bonus or AA that makes our 2 hander weapon shine.  With the restricted weapon state we have and lack of double attack, we should have a healthy bonus using a 2 hander.  Maybe that is addressed in EOF, i truely hope so.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Well, the design of DW vs 2h should come out to be equal in dps minus any casting or procs. It's mostly for cosmetic look for dps. But, DW has one advantage, it can double proc but as a trade off, they get more chance to get riposted or DS'ed out. </P> <P>In hands for pure melees, 2h vs DW would be comparable.. In hands for crusaders,  2h > DW.   Like you said, during long fight, DW would start doing its job.. So are 2h.. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> 2h will do the job just fine what DW would do during long fight minus their procs.<BR></P> <P>Yeah, I agree about double attack, we need it for sure..   Wait and see how EOF AP turns out to be for paladin and SK. Good thing that EOF AP will be separate for each of us, paladin vs Sk this time. Crusader AP such as heal crit is largely useless for SK anyway cuz spell crit still can heal us critically so heal crit will just mostly wasting our AP while it will benefit you nicely.. EOF AP will stop wasting our AP cuz of our opposite class that needs it more..</P>

[Crib92]

<P>I went out and bought a couple of whips last night and was having some fun with it.  Was pretty cool looking but hard to tell if the dps was comparable vs. a 2H since they were treasured weps vs. my Rakelo blade.  Was amusing to see but after a few kills I got bored and went back to my 2H.</P> <P>Maybe I will pick up some fabled dual wields since no one needs anymore and try it again.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Crib92]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cobblestoned wrote:<BR> <P>I just dont understand some of you. If you find something you KNOW is a bug you report it as such. Doesn't matter how good it is. If you don't you are EXPLOITING it. And if you EXPLOIT a bug you are cheating period.</P> <P> </P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000><STRONG>Good job reporting it man. Even if it doesn't matter or doesn't get fixed, you did the right thing. Besides, who ever heard of a duel wielding Pally. Just doesnt make sense.</STRONG></FONT></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Yea who ever heard of it *gasp*  Cause ya know, my neighbor is a Pally and he says that Pally's don't dual wield.  Ummm, its make believe...  this game isn't real...  :smileywink:</P> <P><BR> </P>

[Nocifer Deathblade]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cobblestoned wrote:<BR> <P>. Besides, who ever heard of a duel wielding Pally. Just doesnt make sense.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I heard of that often in other games. Even old traditional D&D that EQ1/EQ2 copied most concept from has dual wielding Paladin.. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>

[Lairdragna]

So what, crusaders should be able to duel wield.  We are the only melee lass that can NOT duel wield... that is beyond ridiculous.  We are already gimped by being the only melee class that can not equip a ranged weapon, and the symbols that we are given are sub par.  I think there is nothing wrong with us duel wielding, in fact we should be the most martial of all the fighter classes, the experts on close in weapon combat.  The Guardian should be the strongest defensive plate tank, trading dps for mitigation.  The Zerker should be the strongest dps plate tank, trading mitigation for an increased ability to do damage.  The monk is a utility tank/situational dps that survives and kills by stealth.  The crusader should be the consumate warrior, skilled in the use of weapons, stoic and resolute... not possessing the defensive or offensive capabilities of Guardians or Zerkers, but something in between.To be effective with duel wield we would need to go offensive... which hurts our mitigation, resists and avoidance.  It is a trade off that comes with some significant penalties.  If we duel wield while defensive, it would be pretty ineffectual.While this may be a bug, it is hardly game breaking.  If crusaders are going to be saddled with lower mitigation, no ranged weapon and fewer melee weapon choices... we should receive some compensating bonuses such as we had in EQL with 2 handers.  Our spells are a poor substitute for a ranged attack weapon.  They have long recasts, cost precious power, can fizzle, can be resisted.I think they should leave duel wield alone and allow crusaders who wish to develop along these lines the opportunity.  Heaven forbid we should allow a little individuality.  And if we can't duel wield, make us the experts of two handed weapons again.  I know SOE can see the wisdom in this, they saw it once before in allowing us to use some piercing eventually.  Leave the duel wield in place please.<div></div>

[Nocifer Deathblade]

Remember crusaders upon EQ2's launch? They can't use axes and spears/piercing weapons at all and they can't even equip ANYTHING in their ranged slot. That sure was even more subpar than  now.. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I dunno why SOE ever thought of that severe restrictions placed upon us during the launch. That was very flawed design that they introduced into game for us..

[RaistNA]

<DIV>ok im nto reading through allt he posts i missed.  But to those knockin me, come look at my character.  I dont have a single duel wield weapon on him, never have, never will.  Im not duel wielding, i dont agree with the bug.  BUT i also dont agree with going all out to report it.  IF paladin_01 is duel wielding next to u, does it effect you?  No.  So why ARGUE with a guide about it.  Let paladin_01 have his fun duel wielding till they fix it.  Going outa ur way to petition, report, debate with devs on it is pointless.  If you wanna be chival and do good, go hunt the stupid bots down that are destroying any ingame economy we had.  Dont waist it reporting a bug that honestly, is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] in its self.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And again let me restate, i NEVER duel wield on my paladin, not even to check it out.</DIV>

[Wulfborne]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RaistNA wrote:<BR> <DIV>ok im nto reading through allt he posts i missed.  But to those knockin me, come look at my character.  I dont have a single duel wield weapon on him, never have, never will.  Im not duel wielding, i dont agree with the bug.  BUT i also dont agree with going all out to report it.  IF paladin_01 is duel wielding next to u, does it effect you?  No.  So why ARGUE with a guide about it.  Let paladin_01 have his fun duel wielding till they fix it.  Going outa ur way to petition, report, debate with devs on it is pointless.  If you wanna be chival and do good, go hunt the stupid bots down that are destroying any ingame economy we had.  Dont waist it reporting a bug that honestly, is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] in its self.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And again let me restate, i NEVER duel wield on my paladin, not even to check it out.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Assuming I understand the OP, he didn't go reporting anyone.. He found the bug on his own, and then reported finding it to a GM. I don't believe it was a tattle-tale type of thing.</P> <P>When I find things jacked up in a game, I report them also. It's not done in a "OMG everyone that does this SUCKS" kind of way... more of a "Hey, just so you guys know... this might need checking into to fix your game" kind of thing.</P> <P>~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul</P>

[SimmySandm]

I have tried to test this out with two dual-wield crushing weapons to no avail.  Maybe they have fixed it?  Maybe it only works with certain weapons?<div></div>

[Lairdragna]

Think it has been fixed... thanks a lot to the narc who ran to the teacher.<div></div>

[Silverpaws]

Narc?  How about honest....It was broken, he told them it was broken and its fixed.  I think he did more than a lot of people that come to these boards and complain about stuff but never actually do anything about it.<div></div>

[RaistNA]

<P>i think what angers us is with so many BROKEN aspects of our class (o i dunno...amends, DA, fear-immunity, our general lack of any real strength) we all just kinda sit here and take it.  The second something nifty comes along (even tho i didnt ever even try duel wielding, if it was something they added in perminantly, i woulda had fun with it) we are suddenly petitioning and reporting and arguing with GM's about it?</P> <P> </P> <P>I think what annoy's some of us is this guy got in contact with a guide or gm or whatever it was, and even when they where like 'sorry our game has no bugs, urn ot duel wielding' when he clearly was, he waisted energy arguing with the middle eastern underpayed ingame copy n paster.  How about putting that energy into hounding them to fix the stuff that is causing our class to be useless...and i know what some of u will say about that but lets face it.  Theres a reason every time my guild gets matron down well below 50% the last day or 2 i havent been in the raid.</P>

[Lairdragna]

It had no major in game impact, but did allow us to have a little fun...  Of all the problems in the game, this wasn't one.  Still, somebody had to take it upon themselves to ruin the little bug that allowed us to have some fun and did no harm.  Rather than SOE fixing real problems, they addressed this and leave the real problems in face.  Yeah, I tried the duel wield to see if it indeed was possible.  It was funny, we still weren't DPS by any stretch, I was getting pounded on while in offensive stance.  There was no practical use for it, but it was FUN!  Parish the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing thought that we should have FUN!  And then Johnny Narc needs to run along and tell the teacher.  I despised these people when I was a kid, I despise them now.  If it was game imbalancing, fine.  But it wasn't.  Still Johnny Do Good needed to brown nose and off he ran.You want to report farmers that permacamp nameds and train people and interrupt the game... cool!You want to report somebody duping plat and destroying the economy, good for you!You want to report somebody botting and leveling while clearly afk... bring it!You go out of your way to report something that doesn't hurt anyone, and doesn't imbalance the game... that's just sad.<div></div>

[Wulfborne]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lairdragna wrote:<BR>It had no major in game impact, but did allow us to have a little fun...  Of all the problems in the game, this wasn't one.  Still, somebody had to take it upon themselves to ruin the little bug that allowed us to have some fun and did no harm.  Rather than SOE fixing real problems, they addressed this and leave the real problems in face.  Yeah, I tried the duel wield to see if it indeed was possible.  It was funny, we still weren't DPS by any stretch, I was getting pounded on while in offensive stance.  There was no practical use for it, but it was FUN!  Parish the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing thought that we should have FUN!  And then Johnny Narc needs to run along and tell the teacher.  I despised these people when I was a kid, I despise them now.  If it was game imbalancing, fine.  But it wasn't.  Still Johnny Do Good needed to brown nose and off he ran.<BR><BR><FONT color=#ff0033>You want to report farmers that permacamp nameds and train people and interrupt the game... cool!<BR><BR>You want to report somebody duping plat and destroying the economy, good for you!<BR><BR>You want to report somebody botting and leveling while clearly afk... bring it!<BR></FONT><BR>You go out of your way to report something that doesn't hurt anyone, and doesn't imbalance the game... that's just sad.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>So, how are the highlighted scenarios *not* being that "Johnny Narc" guy you hate? The only difference I see is who it affects, and you seem to be fine with it if the recipient isn't you.</P> <P>Honestly, who gives a crap? It wasn't ever intended, and it was certainly no boost in DPS or anything, so if it's as non-game breaking as people are saying, [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] is the big deal?</P> <P>You wanna get mad at someone, try redirecting your anger to the "prioritys" for those that correct game issues. even though problems with our abilities, buffs, and spells have been prevalent, reproducable and well known for a significant amount of time, THOSE people elected to put our well known issues on the back burner in favor of the newest one - the horrible dual weilding paladins! Seriously. Cut the guy some slack. That lengthy argument he had with the GM probably took all of 2 minutes.</P> <P>~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul</P>

[Sidien]

<DIV>Aye, they just patched it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Kind of tweaks me that there's no patch note.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Undocumented patches realy get to me, even if they are bug fixes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Still I dunno why they still have to treat paladin's, crusaders in general, as "hybrids".</DIV> <DIV>Originaly the hybrids were more powerful than the other classes, in light of that we had a large EXP penalty. Then they nerfed hybrids to be less powerful than everyone else and it took years to finally get the EXP penalty removed. When EQ2 came along I had renewed faith that finally "hybrids" would be treated as real classes, with real roles. </DIV> <DIV>I'm still dissapointed. I mean dual weilding is way down on the insignificant end of the list, but it would have been cool. </DIV> <DIV>From the 'stat penalty' (so called 'hybrids' needing to build all thier stats while other classes can concentrate on 2 or 3 to increase thier effectivness) To nerfing our shields and upping dual weilding classes unshielded mitigation.(They nerfed our kite shields not once, but twice then increased tower and buckler protection, then increased DW classes protection) Because heaven knows a person hauling around a big sheet of metal shouldn't be able to block better than a person with only armor!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just feels like the same old hybrid "Slap In The Face"(tm)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Because of this, I probably wouldn't have /bug'd the DW bug.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hell I've been away for several months at least and just in one night I've had plenty of other new bugs to report. From the doors inside the court of blades only opening with right click 'open' menu to the bug zapper quest no longer being possible because you cannot pick up the carapace's.</DIV>

[Lairdragna]

Those examples I pointed out negatively effect other players, and that is why it is fine to go to the powers that be.  Since DW did nothing which effected other players, or diminished the role of other classes, it really is just about crying to the teacher for the sake of crying.  If you can't see that... not sure how I could make it clearer.And I did fault the game designers for having their priorities fubared, did I not?The point still stands, some people take it upon themselves to go crying for no reason other than to get attention.  If the bug had a negative impact on the game, it would be fine.  I however did less dps using duel wielders than I do using a good two hander... At most, the DPS might approach a two hander... but since we don;t have an AA line that takes advantage of duel wield... it is self-defeating if you are trying to DPS.  In other words, it was just fun, different... something to play with.  But now it is gone...  We know who to thank.<div></div>

[Nocifer Deathblade]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sidien wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Still I dunno why they still have to treat paladin's, crusaders in general, as "hybrids".</DIV> <DIV>Originaly the hybrids were more powerful than the other classes, in light of that we had a large EXP penalty. Then they nerfed hybrids to be less powerful than everyone else and it took years to finally get the EXP penalty removed. When EQ2 came along I had renewed faith that finally "hybrids" would be treated as real classes, with real roles. </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You assumed that hybrids must stay powerful than any other classes just cuz they used to be in D&D games.. Hybrid definition changes over  time.. In MMOs,  alphas are not working well at all and everyone must be equal to make things work.. SWG tried alpha approach for jedi and failed and tried to do NGE to make jedis equal and also failed cuz they killed off lot of professions and [Removed for Content] off veteran Jedis who worked so hard to get where they were only to be cheaped by it overnight.. </P> <P>I still think Crusaders here are of hybrid nature. </P> <P>Why? 100% CA = Pure melees.   100% spells = Pure casters</P> <P>We are blend of CAs and Spells..What are we called? Hybrid of melee and caster..  Hybrid definition means mixture of 2 or more items. Hybrid car is mixture of electric and gas.. Hybrid crusader is mixture of CAs and Spells. It's simple as that. </P> <P>Pure melees relies only strength for damage for CAs.. Casters relie only INT for damage for Spells..   Hybrid like us relies on BOTH STR and INT for CA+Spell damages.. </P> <P>Hybrids in MMOs are not supposed to be all-powerful or they won't work well cuz everyone would wanna play Hybrids as alphas..</P> <P>I'm proud to be called hybrid fighter. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I am hybrid in EQ1 as SK and continues to be so in EQ2. Hybrid doesn't really mean Fighter+Necro. That definition was true back in EQ1 during inital release but hybrid changes just to blend CA+spells or  /disc+spells in EQ1 instead of fighter+cleric or fighter+necro.<BR></P><p>Message Edited by Nocifer Deathblade on <span class=date_text>10-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:46 AM</span>

[Boethius_Permafrost]

Actually, I think all the hybrids were pretty weak, and had a huge xp penalty anyway.Then the xp penalty was removed, and all the hybrids were adjusted to be very effective, indeed.You may disagree, but this is just the opinion of one older eq1 player.  Me.

[Nocifer Deathblade]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Boethius_Permafrost wrote:<BR>Actually, I think all the hybrids were pretty weak, and had a huge xp penalty anyway.<BR>Then the xp penalty was removed, and all the hybrids were adjusted to be very effective, indeed.<BR>You may disagree, but this is just the opinion of one older eq1 player.  Me.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Heh, I don't disagree.  Hybrid in EQ1's launch was horrible designed and had 40% exp penalty.   I was talking about hybrid in D&D that was nicely made and pretty powerful for its own level against non-hybrids. Hybrid in EQ1 got better by loss of exp penalty like you said and divorced the concept of fighter+cleric, druid or necro combo and re-molded them into true self-defining paladin,sk and ranger with their own new spells that cleric, necro, druid don't have..

[Sidien]

<P>I never said 'hybrids' should be more powerful than the other classes.</P> <P>I only stated that the original intent was just that, therefor the original exp penalty.</P> <P> </P> <P>What I'm saying is that I am sick of the attitude that 'hybrid' = weaker than, which seems to run rampant at <STRIKE>Verant Interactive 989 Studios</STRIKE> SOE.</P><p>Message Edited by Sidien on <span class=date_text>10-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:44 PM</span>