New paladin update on test

[Vulkan_NTooki]

<DIV> <DIV>Paladin changes:<BR>- Divine Favor no longer has a hate reduction component. Its duration was increased from 2 to 3 minutes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've never actually used this spell.. so not sure what its recast time is, or casting time for that matter.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But it seems that we now get another emergency spell that can be used while MT. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Do u loose all your buffs when you die this way btw? If not it would be like having 1400 more hps if the fight lasts below 3 mins right?</DIV></DIV>

[redi]

wish i were an octopus so i could give this update 8 thumbs up<div></div>

[Rarlin]

Sweet!  Now I tank Tarinax!  Oh wait... nm <span>:smileyhappy:</span><div></div>

[Geekyone]

<DIV>Divine Favor (currently on live) is awful for a MT...it reduces your hate by 25 postions or something like that.  It's a good spell that takes about 1 second to cast (uses no concentration) and (now on test) lasts 3 mins...what it does, is the person you cast it on if they are close to death, and receive a death blow, they will instead be healed for over 1K points of health instead of dieing.  So now that it doens't reduce our hate, I'll probably keep this thing casted on someone all the time.</DIV>

[MeridianR]

<div><blockquote><hr>Geekyone wrote:<div>Divine Favor (currently on live) is awful for a MT...it reduces your hate by 25 postions or something like that.  It's a good spell that takes about 1 second to cast (uses no concentration) and (now on test) lasts 3 mins...what it does, is the person you cast it on if they are close to death, and receive a death blow, they will instead be healed for over 1K points of health instead of dieing.  So now that it doens't reduce our hate, I'll probably keep this thing casted on someone all the time.</div><hr></blockquote>Ummm it is SELF only, so you can't cast it on anyone else man.... /sighThis is still worthless, unless it heals for more and ALSO gets rid of the stifle....if not then it is just going to add to the amount of repair costs, because:While tanking, you activate Divine Favor, mob x kills you, DF activates, but you didn't lose hate....mob x hits you 1 sec after you rez for more then 1400, dead Pally again.</div>

[Vulkan_NTooki]

<DIV>Lots of healings in casting could land during that 1 second tho.. :smileywink: Atleast Im gonna try it out some when it goes live.</DIV>

[Anariale]

Way to adjust that 30 minute reuse timer, or the fact that it only heals 1400 HP!W<div></div>

[MeridianR]

<div><blockquote><hr>Anariale wrote:Way to adjust that 30 minute reuse timer, or the fact that it only heals 1400 HP!W<div></div><hr></blockquote>...again it's just people being happy that they see the phrase  Paladin: Something blah blah  - in the update notes.This is again, another worthless change that does nothing other then allow them to add to there huge "This is what has changed since launch" sheet...lol</div>

[Anariale]

Come to the Dark Side, PhovTogether we can rule the Galaxy<div></div>

[Crib92]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MeridianR wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Anariale wrote:<BR>Way to adjust that 30 minute reuse timer, or the fact that it only heals 1400 HP!<BR><BR>W<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>...again it's just people being happy that they see the phrase  Paladin: Something blah blah  - in the update notes.<BR><BR>This is again, another worthless change that does nothing other then allow them to add to there huge "This is what has changed since launch" sheet...lol<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Agreed this change does nothing except increase your repair bill by 10%.  Still wothless unless you don't die and lose buffs.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[MeridianR]

<div><blockquote><hr>Anariale wrote:Come to the Dark Side, PhovTogether we can rule the Galaxy<div></div><hr></blockquote>Maybe I should just start grinding out the rest of my AA's on my Wizard...lol</div>

[Rarlin]

<div><blockquote><hr>Anariale wrote:Come to the Dark Side, PhovTogether we can rule the Galaxy<div></div><hr></blockquote>ROFL!!!</div>

[Rocksthemic]

I think the fact it doesn't drop hate positions has some merit. The stifle factor isn't as good, because you can't taunt. But basically I see this as an extra altruism (AA choice of brawlers) if you're MT. Thundaarr Unrest <Nightcap> <div></div>

[uzhiel feathered serpe]

<P>I wholeheartedly agree with Phov.</P> <P>While it looks good on paper, its will kill you rather quickly if you rez. Think about, you're tanking mob_01. Hits you for x amount of damage and kills you. This is while you are buffed, mind you.</P> <P>You self rez, without any buffs at all..and you're still on the hate list.</P> <P>Now, if the grp, raid, duo member couldnt keep you up, fully buffed...they are going to be REALLY hard pressed to keep you up without any buffs.</P>

[Rothrek]

Folks, come on now! This is a great update! If we are dueling, say someone doesn't kill you fast enough! That extra minute will keep it up, and if they do kill you and ressurect, well you still have your hate on the opponent you're dueling!!!!<div></div>

[MeridianR]

<div><blockquote><hr>Rothrek wrote:Folks, come on now! This is a great update! If we are dueling, say someone doesn't kill you fast enough! That extra minute will keep it up, and if they do kill you and ressurect, well you still have your hate on the opponent you're dueling!!!!<div></div><hr></blockquote>You know I should have thought about that, all is well....it's another wonderful addition to our already uber / overpowered class!!</div>

[Rothrek]

Woot woot : ) <div></div>

[Anzak]

I normally would agree with Phov about useless updates.  But in this case I'm not sure.  I think it is limited use but that is ok I think that is the purpose of it.  By design it needs to be limited use.  This just actually makes it have a limited use as where before it had no real use.   As for it being weak I disagree somewhat.  Not sure if it damages your armor I have only used it  a few times.  But I do know you keep your buffs up.  So tanking and throwing this up before you die gives you 1400 of healing which will buy you a second or 2 which is all that is needed for healers to get something off.  I could see this being useful on pull so that initial spike damage you could take a little better.Now the dark side.  This looks like a cheap attempt on SOEs part to give us something to make up for warriors getting the click bp Tsunami and an AA Tsunami.  Though like Divine Aura this is not nearly as strong as what warriors have and in fact is even weaker than what we have.<div></div>

[Anariale]

Anzak, go compare it to the Berserker Death Ward, then post again...You will be bitter... I promise.<div></div>

[Anzak]

I already am bitter.<div></div>

[OrcSlayer96]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Anariale wrote:<BR>Anzak, go compare it to the Berserker Death Ward, then post again...<BR><BR>You will be bitter... I promise.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I agree with you Anariale, the change in divine favor is fluff at best.  They remove a option that never worked as stated.  How about remove the stifle and shorten the recast down to 5 minutes or such.  Do other FD like spells have a stifle applied to their abilities?  If you wish to keep the stifle, then make it a full heal on the payload instead at the most a 1,400 health heal.  The whole stifle thing and long recast(got to love the boatload of spells we have that 15 minute recast on them), makes this spell a gilded [Removed for Content] at best.  I will still consider that we have only 2 worthwhile ancient spells, not 3...<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>

[Boethius_Permafrost]

This spell doesn't really help the paladin, since you take all the penalties of death, anyway.  But we are above such selfish concerns.  The question is would the group or raid be better off if you cast this, or if you do not cast this, while you are tanking.  The old way, it was an obvious no.  Besides keeping you "alive" but taking all the penalties of death anyway, it also was designed to make you completely lose agro without giving the group any indication of what just happened, so they keep healing you while you are no longer the tank.  Just die, so they can at least react.The new way has at least some small chance of helping the group win, but you are still disabled from being able to tank, so someone has to take over quickly, and they don't have much indication of what is happening.  I think the removal of buffs is the real killer here, because fully buffed, at least you could try to scream for someone else to tank while you are stiffled.  While it has greatly improved, it still seems to be just barely on the "more harm that good" category.  Also the heal probably needs to scale up with your level or max HP.(Disclaimer, I'm taking your word for it on how this spell works.  I'm not planning to actually use it, to get any real experience.  I have heard that the hate loss doesn't work anyway, which would mean there is no change.)

[Rarlin]

<div><blockquote><hr>MeridianR wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Rothrek wrote:Folks, come on now! This is a great update! If we are dueling, say someone doesn't kill you fast enough! That extra minute will keep it up, and if they do kill you and ressurect, well you still have your hate on the opponent you're dueling!!!!<div></div><hr></blockquote>You know I should have thought about that, all is well....it's another wonderful addition to our already uber / overpowered class!!</div><hr></blockquote>Man, you've GOT to stop...  I almost spit Snapple on the monitor here at work cause I was laughing so hard!</div>

[Caetrel]

<div></div>The spell was such a pos I don't even know the exacts on it.   The hate reduction/ stifle made me just never tray it, though I bought the m1 for like a plat just to have it. However, if this is basically a healer save we can cast on ourselves than it kicks [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].  It's not a matter of only being healed to 1400, its a matter of buying a half second for the 10k in heals to hit you that havent quite resolved yet.    Don't dismiss it yet.  It might be okay.  However, what we could really use along this line of thinking is an emergency ward to go along with the lay on hands line.  Insta-cast single target, 15 minute timer, 1700-2200 in the tier 7 master range.  edited to add:  I just logged on to examine this.  It will be useful, very useful, it operates exactly as healer saves do, instead of being dead, you go to 1400 health.  You won't lose buffs , hate, anything.  Healer saves are instacast but they have a short duration so  and this will have a 3 minute- so if you drop it and end up not needing it after all it may have use again if you spike later on.   Keep in mind, healers saves are all on a 15 minute timer and are group friend only.  So if you are MTing a spiky fight this is one more save at your disposal.  My only reservation is the stifle and if that ends up getting changed. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Caetrel on <span class=date_text>08-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:12 AM</span>

[Boethius_Permafrost]

Making use of divine favor might be similar to dealing with bosses that place a long duration stun on you.  Do you normally have another tank trying to be second on threat to take over temporarily?  Do you just rely on stun immunity items and spells?  Hotkey, "/raid Stifled, hold damage"?  I think the usual method is let your main healer and a few dps die, then go around chasing the mob trying to get agro back because rescue didn't do anything.  Anyone else had different experiences with 10 second stifles? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />We can deal with these if the backup tank (usually me) has heals and knows that loss of agro is likely.  But it seems to me that an ability that avoids death but takes you out of the tanking role is of dubious quality.  I guess you still have full mana.<div></div>

[Caetrel]

<hr size="2" width="100%">But it seems to me that an ability that avoids death but takes you out of the tanking role is of dubious quality. <hr size="2" width="100%">Totally.   But they are taking away the de aggro.  If that leaves a 10 second stifle, it still could be useful.  I could keep aggro thru a 10 second stifle on a 15k+ dps raid.  If you could sigil first, it would be easy, though there might not be time. I think this will be dangerous to use at the wrong time, but if your healers are out of saves and your other alternative is to die, your OT would be needing to grab the mob anyway. <div></div>

[Wulfborne]

<DIV>Yeah.... The only time I ever used this is if we were goin down hard and fast, and I'd start running as soon as it rezzed me. (So I had a better chance at staying alive to come back and try to rez healers instead of a full revive at the entrance).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When you rez, you are without buffs, and yes, your gear takes damage. So basically, before, you could use it as a sort of safety net, where you had at least a chance of getting out of range before the second death. Now.....not so much.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1400 hit points healed and no aggro lost = your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] is toast (again) in 3 sec....2 sec... 1... aww... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But hey, since they're dropping the cost of repair bills, if we use it we'll just be paying the old prices, right?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul</DIV>

[Rarlin]

<div><blockquote><hr>Wulfborne wrote:<div>Yeah.... The only time I ever used this is if we were goin down hard and fast, and I'd start running as soon as it rezzed me. (So I had a better chance at staying alive to come back and try to rez healers instead of a full revive at the entrance).</div> <div> </div> <div>When you rez, you are without buffs, and yes, your gear takes damage. So basically, before, you could use it as a sort of safety net, where you had at least a chance of getting out of range before the second death. Now.....not so much.</div> <div> </div> <div>1400 hit points healed and no aggro lost = your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] is toast (again) in 3 sec....2 sec... 1... aww... </div> <div> </div> <div>But hey, since they're dropping the cost of repair bills, if we use it we'll just be paying the old prices, right?</div> <div> </div> <div>~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul</div><hr></blockquote>You MUST be fabled out to last 3 seconds before the second death!!!  <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span>If this would just hold our buffs and not give our gear damage I would be happy...  Sure 1400 HP is not much, but it would give the healers that 2nd chance that is needed if WE'RE tanking.  <span>:smileywink:</span></div>

[Mantell]

<P>I'm pretty sure it doesn't drop your buffs. I'm not 100% sure, and I can't go check while I'm at work but I'm about 90% sure. It does ding your armor.</P> <P>It was designed originally to drop your aggro in a raid when you accidentally get aggro. When's the last time a Paladin "accidentally" picked up aggro in a raid? Well it happens to me if I'm stupid and hit Rescue by accident, or if I pre-ward, but I die so fast that there's no time to cast the spell. The only other time I get aggro is when it's killed everyone on the list above me and we're wiping, in which case I don't want to be rezzed and killed again, thanks.</P> <P>I've used it about four times to good effect.</P> <P>Once when soloing in Bonemire it saved me at the last second, allowing me to run away.</P> <P>Once when duelling both of us had a sliver of health left and the extra 1400 came as quite a surprise to my opponent. Autoattack FTW!</P> <P>A couple times when grouped it has saved me long enough for the healer to keep me up, but someone else would then die because I lost aggro. At least this part is fixed now, so I say it's an improvement. </P>

[hawsecav19d]

<DIV>Why wouldnt your healer be healing you anyway if your about to die unless its a massisve spike they should see your falling. I would think that by time you die and come back heals, hot, ward would have gone off even if you only got 1400 hps one of groups/raids healers should have slapped something on you as soon as you fall I would think a group HoT might work best it should be pumping up your hps as soon as your back since timing might negate others becaust they are  to soon or to slow</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[ChopStix]

what junk we pallies get as an update, pffft!!!!

[enjoilab]

are you kidding me???????? we get the best stuff eva!!!!!!!!

[Goejun]

I used this spell a lot while soloing but now I will be able to use it in group also, so it's great news !!!And despite what some people say, it's good even in raid  because it can give u a chance to get more heals and survive. <div></div>

[Anariale]

<P>While not directly applicable... every patch for EQ2 & Paladins makes me feel like this...</P> <P><A href="http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2001/06/18" target=_blank>http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2001/06/18</A></P> <P>W</P>

[ChopStix]

LOL!

[Pathin Merrithay]

<DIV>How many months ago did I make a huge post on this useless spell, with utterly no respnse? And -now- they make a change so laughably minor to a broken/useless spell? It shall remain safely tucked away in my Spellbook, never seeing the light of hotbar day, thank you very much Dev Team.</DIV>

[Anariale]

<P>Yey, Saffira and I agree!</P> <P>The world is ending!</P>

[Pathin Merrithay]

<DIV>I am already bracing for the upcoming Armageddon. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Nurta]

<P>This is dumb, it would be better IF it actually healed you for more but little sprinkle it does isn't is crap and has anyone ever actually seen the hate reduction work?!?  I've tested this in a group setting before and while duoing.... every time I have tested it I still get the hate after the mini heal and THWAP I still die.  /sigh</P> <P>When I first got this spell I thought, oh this is like the spell the clerics in EQ1 had where for the cost of a pearl or something they could slap this buff on someone and it would grant them a complete heal?!? if the planets aligned....I was terribly let down and I'm still let down.  As it were I use this when I have bitten off more than I can chew and I'm in full retreat mode, I hope that the extra hitpoints will let me live long enough to escape.  So yeah, it's meh.</P><p>Message Edited by Nurta on <span class=date_text>08-30-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:55 PM</span>

[Sabrekong]

<DIV>It all depends on when you use it....timing is everything, just like LoH or the 5 min heal we have....plus I dunno what in the heck you guys are talking about taking extra armor damage when using it, that's never happened to me, nor do I lose my buffs....I just kinda fall on the floor, then pop up like I just went into the purple...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Honestly they should seriously get rid of the Godforsaken stifle on it....that way when we pop up we can block ourselves from whatever attacks may be coming at us if we're fighting...the deaggro thing doesn't work anyway, so with the way Divine Favor is atm it's like it already doesn't have the -25 aggro positions...</DIV>

[g0thiC_iCe_cReaM]

<P>i dunno, i've been using it a lot lately and 70% of the time i end up finishing the encounter after going down with it solo...when i've used it in groups i've managed to still keep the hate and buy the group time to get away or the healer get me back up to par...i kinda like it...</P> <P>the heal on it isn't bad actually (on the ad3) but i dunno...i didn't really think it was all that great of a spell at first but i've grown to like it hehe</P>

[JarredDarque]

<DIV>I have actually had divine favor work once for me.  And keep me alive.  I did not die.  I did not lose my buffs.  I was stifled for 12 seconds though.  It saved my group from a wipe.  I was able to keep aggro cause of the assasins hate transfer and my amends on a wizzy.  I dont see this change being useful really I would prefer they fix something else   Like I said  I have had this spell work...once.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>BTW  the extra second this spell kept me alive, gave the healer enough time to save my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] with wards and heals.</DIV>

[Lairdragna]

I've never used this spell, but its on my hot bar.So a dumb question since I usually off-tank in raids and serve as a tier 2 healer... in a long fight against a boss in which the boss was landing aoes and the healers were going down (I'm usually the last healer to die since I have good mitigation and resists), could this not keep me up a bit longer to heal and ward the MT while the necroes and dirges rezzed the healers?  I start getting into the orange, I cast this, should the next aoe take me to what would have been death... poof, 1400 point heal and I stay on the MT healing a bit longer?<div></div>

[Turb]

<blockquote><hr>Lairdragna wrote:I've never used this spell, but its on my hot bar.So a dumb question since I usually off-tank in raids and serve as a tier 2 healer... in a long fight against a boss in which the boss was landing aoes and the healers were going down (I'm usually the last healer to die since I have good mitigation and resists), could this not keep me up a bit longer to heal and ward the MT while the necroes and dirges rezzed the healers?  I start getting into the orange, I cast this, should the next aoe take me to what would have been death... poof, 1400 point heal and I stay on the MT healing a bit longer?<div></div><hr></blockquote>You're alive, but stifled for 12 secs so you can't heal anyone...

[Nurta]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Turb0T wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lairdragna wrote:<BR>I've never used this spell, but its on my hot bar.<BR><BR>So a dumb question since I usually off-tank in raids and serve as a tier 2 healer... in a long fight against a boss in which the boss was landing aoes and the healers were going down (I'm usually the last healer to die since I have good mitigation and resists), could this not keep me up a bit longer to heal and ward the MT while the necroes and dirges rezzed the healers?  I start getting into the orange, I cast this, should the next aoe take me to what would have been death... poof, 1400 point heal and I stay on the MT healing a bit longer?<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>You're alive, but stifled for 12 secs so you can't heal anyone...<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Exactly. It's a worthless spell IMO.  Like I said I use it when running away <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>

[MeridianR]

I got the master this weekend....not because I wanted it, but mainly because now I only need 3 spells to have full masters...lol  (Full Masters meaning any spell that can be made a master spell, that is still used at 70)<div></div>

[Mad Marty]

<P>My understanding was that the whole point of this spell was the reduce hate part. The idea being that with two tank groups in a raid - when you are tanking you cast it  - if you "die" the second tank takes over - you are saved a repair bill and a run from the zone in and can start building up hate again.</P> <P>Having said that, it never worked for me.</P>

[g0thiC_iCe_cReaM]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lairdragna wrote:<BR>I've never used this spell, but its on my hot bar.<BR><BR>So a dumb question since I usually off-tank in raids and serve as a tier 2 healer... in a long fight against a boss in which the boss was landing aoes and the healers were going down (I'm usually the last healer to die since I have good mitigation and resists), could this not keep me up a bit longer to heal and ward the MT while the necroes and dirges rezzed the healers?  I start getting into the orange, I cast this, should the next aoe take me to what would have been death... poof, 1400 point heal and I stay on the MT healing a bit longer?<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>yeah, if everyone survives your stifle period...i use it mostly solo...i'm sure it could be useful in that situation, mostly i think it was meant for raiding with a second tank...i usually cast it when i'm in the red...it's not a very long casting time, almost instant...</P> <P>i have had it pull off some tough battles with groups before...amends on the dpser keeps my hate high enough not to loose agro while the healer gets me back up to 100%...once i'm back up i use my manastone and vessel of fyr'un to replenish my power and finish the encounter...when i'm solo i'll either use it to run away or get back up and stomp the mob...</P> <P>i wouldn't call it useless...perhaps it could use a little reworking, but it's definitely not useless...</P>