You guys kill me

[Xoen Miller]

<DIV>You know i sit here all the time and read everyone not just paladins but all classes... and i will finally comment on our class i can agree with some of the things everyone says yes but i tell you one thing if my class sucked i would not be outfitted better then 99% of the other plate tanks on my server.. with that being said yes our dps is low but in no way any lower than a guardian. Its all in how you play your toon people and like i have seen so  many times before if you cant figure it out instead of the continuous griping and whining change games or roll up another toon LOL ... quick fix IMO. And if you want to comment on the changes you would like to see then post in the feedback forum lets try and keep the pally forum a positive place to post not a place that no real pally wants to come cause there is always someone pitching about something for cryin out loud. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>End speech</DIV>

[uzhiel feathered serpe]

<DIV>Umm...yes. Warriors can and do out DPS crusaders..quite easily actually. If you are out DPSing a warrior, its because they are not trying. No matter how much nuking and CA you spam, you cannot beat buckler reversal for over 70% chance to double every attack.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Another fact for you is that Crusaders have the lowest DPS of any plate tanks and one of the worst in the game. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>These are facts. You should do some research before posting about how Palys can out DPS a warrior. Just setting you straight, since you seem a bit misinformed. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No one is saying the class is broken. Its not. Does it need some love? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That answer is a resounding yes.</DIV>

[Xoen Miller]

LOL ok well i never said we smoke a guardian in the dps dpt. What the post was meant to say is we are comparable to the guard. That's all as far as the dps was concerned. So before you start tryin to make me look like a tool why not read what i said instead of twisting it tool bag.

[MeridianR]

The Paladin Channel is already nice, this is where we can vent.....oh and pretty much my job is boring the hell out of me right now, so I need some form of entertainment during my 9 hour shift....<div></div>

[uzhiel feathered serpe]

<P>Err...umm..no, we dont compare to Warriors in that regard either, Mr. "Tool Bag".</P> <P>A berserker can plain out make you look silly in DPS. As for guardians, just take a look at their combat arts, damage, and recast. That should give you an inkling.</P> <P>now combine it with buckler reversal...</P> <P>Its ok though. I really cant blame you for not knowing or doing research, since you seem well..kinda of..dont want to say ignorant, but misinformed. </P> <P>Always happy to help the newbies out. </P>

[Rocksthemic]

Well if you want suggestions on how to improve the paladin class, I will champion the idea I came up with recently. That idea is that we get a temporary buff that gives us a VAST improvement in our focus, making it so we cannot be interrupted. My idea is a 45 second buff with a recast timer of 1 minute 30 seconds. This would allow us to get off our wards and heals and thus vastly improve our survivabilty in raid encounters as we would not be getting interrupted every time we try and cast. A reduction in our casting timers for heals would be nice, but the abilty to cast what heals we have even against raid mobs would go a long way toward increasing our effectiveness as raid tanks. Thundaarr Unrest <Nightcap> <div></div>

[OrcSlayer96]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rocksthemic wrote:<BR>Well if you want suggestions on how to improve the paladin class, I will champion the idea I came up with recently. That idea is that we get a temporary buff that gives us a VAST improvement in our focus, making it so we cannot be interrupted. My idea is a 45 second buff with a recast timer of 1 minute 30 seconds. This would allow us to get off our wards and heals and thus vastly improve our survivabilty in raid encounters as we would not be getting interrupted every time we try and cast. A reduction in our casting timers for heals would be nice, but the abilty to cast what heals we have even against raid mobs would go a long way toward increasing our effectiveness as raid tanks.<BR><BR>Thundaarr<BR>Unrest<BR><Nightcap><BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Hey Thundaar, have you tossed that out on the spells and combat arts thread we have started?  I think it is a worthy item to add if you havent yet.  BTW, for some other paladins, we discussed awhile back about the effective mitigation of the cobalt censer with its 114 vs crushing/slashing/piercing.  From what i can tell, items that give bonus mitigation with the versus S/C/P are not affected by the min level of the item to your actual level.  The cobalt censer is actually giving you the full value of the mitigated percentage as if it was 114 at level 70 player.  Seems like that is the main difference between base mitigation and mitigation gained from versus items.  At level 70 , each 70 points of mitigation should show as 1% mitigation gained and that censer is registering as 1.6% mitigation gained.  When i tried the dragonscale tome that is 5 levels higher with 60 versus C/S/P, it was just slightly less than 1% additional mitigation.  Anybody that has time to test, i would appreciate it if they see similar results, being as i am comparing thru my thorui interface...<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>

[Xoen Miller]

<P>Ok look i guess i need to clarify myself.</P> <P>1- In my original post hmm don't think i used the word warrior or zerker one time</P> <P>2- never said we were better than a guardian in dps just comparable.</P> <P>3- i didn't however mention that the dps i speak of is in raid situations and that's something i left out.</P> <P>4- very first thing i said was the fact that i agreed with most things you yourself and others have posted about our class and that i am just tired of the whining.</P> <P>5- do i think we could use some loving like you say.. YES     </P> <P>6- am i going to kick and stomp my feet till i get it ...NO</P> <P>not trying to start trouble here was just expressing my thoughts as you all do from time to time.</P> <P>Last post so if you want to flame me more knock yourself out</P>

[MeridianR]

<div><blockquote><hr>Xoen Miller wrote:<div></div> <p>Ok look i guess i need to clarify myself.</p> <p>1- In my original post hmm don't think i used the word warrior or zerker one time</p> <p>2- never said we were better than a guardian in dps just comparable.</p> <p>3- i didn't however mention that the dps i speak of is in raid situations and that's something i left out.</p> <p>4- very first thing i said was the fact that i agreed with most things you yourself and others have posted about our class and that i am just tired of the whining.</p> <p>5- do i think we could use some loving like you say.. YES     </p> <p>6- am i going to kick and stomp my feet till i get it ...NO</p> <p>not trying to start trouble here was just expressing my thoughts as you all do from time to time.</p> <p>Last post so if you want to flame me more knock yourself out</p><hr></blockquote>Nah man, don't be scared we don't bite....We seriously do need more raiding Paladins posting <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[PolarBear77]

omg i have never been out parsed by a guard ..........ever...... even with there buckler reversal BS........ i always make parse in raid  im near the bottom most of the time but i make it ..... i useally parse about 800-1k dps all the time... but as most of us know, dpsing  on raids has alot to do with your group make up.  give a  templer a great group set up and they will make the parse ........... ok nm  that is going alittle far......... but with the right group you should put up respectable numbers.

[Canel]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> PolarBear77 wrote:<BR> omg i have never been out parsed by a guard ..........ever...... even with there buckler reversal BS........ i always make parse in raid  im near the bottom most of the time but i make it ..... i useally parse about 800-1k dps all the time... but as most of us know, dpsing  on raids has alot to do with your group make up.  give a  templer a great group set up and they will make the parse ........... ok nm  that is going alittle far......... but with the right group you should put up respectable numbers.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I really gotta agree with this. I mean-sometimes I'm not even in a dps set group (I seem to have a thing for being put as the wizzard's group tank) so I can't really prespectivly put up K's of dps on the parse-but by using my CA's and spells in such an order and frequency--one of the main Necros in the guild has put me on heart probation--let's leave it at that-----But I can out DPS the MT, the MA, and the other tanks. Usually the only reason I'm not on the parse at times is due to wizzie spikes and scout/brawler dps. But when I'm plopped into a dps efficiant group--Middle-upper end of the parse. Simple as that. </P> <P>I acknoledge that some guilds don't see Paladins as good raid dps. That's why their Paladins never show up on parses because they're stuck in the groups where INT is more important than haste. And that's the evidence for the guilds who say Pallys arn't dps-because their Paladins arn't given a chance.</P>

[Cenodor]

<P>Personally I don't see other plate tanks outparsing me simply because of their class.. Of the plate tanks in my guild(2 pallies, 1 sk, 1 berserker, 2 guardians) only one of the guardians(our MT) ever parses higher then me.. and only 50% of the time.. I'm usually in the MT group with him so we tend to have the same dps/haste buffs.. I usually parse between 750-1250 and usually end up in the top 5 on parse list for raids. Guild members have admitted to me that I've turned their views about pallies completely around. They are amazed at how versatile a well played paladin can be. When focused on dps, I can parse the above numbers. When focused on healing, I usually heal more then a third of the healers on the raid. And when tanking I can tank almost any mob in the game albeit with extra work from the healers.</P> <P> </P> <P>Too often I read on these boards on how pallies suck and they aren't the best at anything but I wouldn't want to be anyother class in this game. I love the versatility of being a paladin and we are definately a great class when skillfully played.</P> <P> </P> <P>Just my 2 cents,                     </P> <P> </P> <P>Cenodor - 70 Paladin</P> <P>Banished - Lucan D'Lere</P>

[Nevar]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> uzhiel feathered serpent wrote:<BR> <P>Err...umm..no, we dont compare to Warriors in that regard either, Mr. "Tool Bag".</P> <P>A berserker can plain out make you look silly in DPS. As for guardians, just take a look at their combat arts, damage, and recast. That should give you an inkling.</P> <P>now combine it with buckler reversal...</P> <P>Its ok though. I really cant blame you for not knowing or doing research, since you seem well..kinda of..dont want to say ignorant, but misinformed. </P> <P>Always happy to help the newbies out. </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I think this person just likes to cry and make himself think he is special.

[uzhiel feathered serpe]

<P>I can pull out plenty of posts about you [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing about something or another, Itoock. Dont try your little BS on me.  You have dissolution to thank for your stats. They could grab any paly and outfit them as well as you. </P> <P>Your stats mean trash to me, as I am already fully fabled, and I would hope that other paladins dont use your gear as baseline for where their HP and mitigation should be, considering Disso is one of the top 1 % of raiding guilds worldwide.</P> <P>As for me [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing, and you accusing me of [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing, doesnt change the facts that Warriors clearly have better tanking skils that Crusaders.</P> <P>No one said Paladins cant tank. With the exception of some contested. I have tanked most T7 raid mobs just fine. </P> <P>Simply put, all gear being Equal, Warriors have MUCH better tanking AA's and skills that Crusaders. Even you can't deny it. What bothers me, and apparently, other Crusaders, is that now they can OUT DPS too.</P> <P>So the only thing we have on Warrios in healing. Thats pretty UBER.</P>

[Nevar]

<DIV>Seems my previous post is still holding true.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And on other note, ive been with disso since we started, so how am I not responsible for getting the gear I have? Ive earned it. I have put in the time and thats why I got what I have. Dont get [Removed for Content] at me because you suck.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Nevarer on <span class=date_text>08-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:46 PM</span>

[Majorminor]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nevarer wrote:<BR> <DIV>Seems my previous post is still holding true.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And on other note, ive been with disso since we started, so how am I not responsible for getting the gear I have? Ive earned it. I have put in the time and thats why I got what I have. Dont get [Removed for Content] at me because you suck.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Nevarer on <SPAN class=date_text>08-27-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>04:46 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Seems you have brought nothing to this thread either /shrug.  </P> <P> </P> <P>And that should read Don't get mad at me because I Have good/great gear.  Your right you have earned it, don't think I could say you haven't, don't really know you to dispute that.  There for you shouldn't go saying people suck that you don't know, seems in pretty poor taste imho.</P>

[ChopStix]

<P>so howd you get that gear? did you tank those mobs yourself to get it? or did you ward and heal, and do a little dps behind a raid geared tank?</P> <P> </P> <P>i know you didnt go on a raid in xegonite and tank anything... the only way woulda been quested items from the clamore series probably, which if you were on a pvp server you probably couldnt complete on the vox server anyways..</P>

[enjoilab]

then go to a different pvp server chop...

[holypaladin28]

<DIV>kk i havent raiding T7 and im sure it is different but im raid leader for my guild and i have tanked for alot of raids before even if they are yellow to me i never had a problem doing it.  hell i got my ancient combine longsword.  (awesome onehander BTW )from the behomath in the deserted mines and he was a hard raid.  im the first person people ask to tank in both groups and raids though i hardly go in groups because i rather PVP.  but ijm chosen over zerkers and guards because people know i can hold aggro verywell and i dont drop from a sneeze.  </DIV>

[OrcSlayer96]

<DIV><BR>Ok guys, this is going nowhere, this thread should have been done after the first statement, people have stated their views and there is no need to name call or put down people.  Lets agree that we disagree and realize people value different things for their paladin...<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></DIV>

[enjoilab]

<DIV>t7 raiding...as long as you have the right classes the gear will come in time...you can quote me on that <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Nurta]

<P>Holy [Removed for Content] contest batman.  *mumbles something about this being why she doesn't post here much*</P> <P>I've read the front page of the paladin board today and this is the one I'm replying to.  This is kind of like my disclaimer so my opinion formed is not made from this thread solely.</P> <P>I don't understand.  I used to raid, allot.  I don't anymore.  I'm happy with my paladin but I do remember that at the raiding level I was lacking, IMO (in <STRONG>my</STRONG> opinion).  In my group role I'm more than fine, in fact I'm outstanding *toot* *toot*.  Solo?  Yep I can solo, whites, yellows, the occasional orange with luck and heroics and most definitely ^s.  I've changed up my AAs a few times to find what I like, I can solo, I can group...but solo and grouping is not raiding.  Why can't people see the split in the two different gaming aspects and argue those points seperately?  It's like people some how equate raiding and grouping as the same, it's not really... no where close.  Reading threads where people argue the two together in the same thread is like watching a dog chase his tail. (not just this thread but most on this topic)</P> <P>I wish people respected others opinions on this board though, it makes some of you look like arrogant weenies who thump  your chests about pixels; it makes me giggle too though.  Thousands of people play this game and many play paladins.  Not everyone has the same roles, goals or ideas of how they play or want to play.  Your vision may or may not be mine.  You will never see me telling another paladin they are ignorant and likewise you will never see me saying we're not broken.  It's more complicated than black and white and honestly bickering doesn't help.  And, therefore it's SoE's job to find the balance for us (laugh).</P> <P>Ok resume tail chasing <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Nicholai24]

Hi. I'm from the shadowknight boards.I was planning on thumping my pixelated chest, but it looks like I'd be putting some people out of a job.I did bring a box of tissues and some Johnson and Johnson 'No More Tears' baby shampoo, however. I'll leave it here on the doorstep.And before anyone accuses me of being a troublemaker, I felt it simply wouldn't do to watch my flower-wearing, sissified Crusader brothers killing each other, no matter how deliciously ironic it would be, so I decided to remind you about who you should really be focusing your anger towards: us.Shadowknights. Evil. Remember?<div></div>

[holypaladin28]

<DIV>rofl sk's i love owning those even con sk's  [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] last night i got hit with MT or what ever it was at  lvl 54 yah it did 400 needless to say he died.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sk=easy mode/  highdamage one hit evac FD your one step behind scouts o needed skill to play [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] if you had fat fingers you could play an sk like a pro after all those fingers would allow you to mash all your buttons at once</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>also posting on forums you dont belong to is against SOE T&C</DIV>

[Nicholai24]

<div><blockquote><hr>holypaladin2819 wrote:<div>rofl sk's i love owning those even con sk's  [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] last night i got hit with MT or what ever it was at  lvl 54 yah it did 400 needless to say he died.</div> <div> </div> <div>Sk=easy mode/  highdamage one hit evac FD your one step behind scouts o needed skill to play [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] if you had fat fingers you could play an sk like a pro after all those fingers would allow you to mash all your buttons at once</div> <div> </div> <div>also posting on forums you dont belong to is against SOE T&C</div><hr></blockquote>I'm going to go ahead and call you a liar on all counts.. but just in case, I made a Level 1 paladin.Now I'm official.</div>

[Canel]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nicholai24 wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> holypaladin2819 wrote:<BR> <DIV>rofl sk's i love owning those even con sk's  [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] last night i got hit with MT or what ever it was at  lvl 54 yah it did 400 needless to say he died.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sk=easy mode/  highdamage one hit evac FD your one step behind scouts o needed skill to play [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] if you had fat fingers you could play an sk like a pro after all those fingers would allow you to mash all your buttons at once</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>also posting on forums you dont belong to is against SOE T&C</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><FONT color=#ff0000>I'm going to go ahead and call you a liar on all counts.. but just in case, I made a Level 1 paladin.<BR><BR>Now I'm official.</FONT><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>LOL LOL LOL:smileyvery-happy::smileywink:<BR>

[Lairdragna]

Wow... what a [Removed for Content] match.No nobody should look to Itoock as a baseline.  As pointed out, he is in arguably one of the best raiding guilds in the game, and he is no doubt one of the best paladins playing the game... regardless of gear, yes, he has SKILL.  If you put everybody in his gear and gave them his spells, they would likely still not perform as well as he does.  That is not to say they suck, he just has broader experience to pull from.  There are probably several paladins here, given the same set of tools, that could play the class as well as Itoock.  Perhaps some even better.  I do not count myself among that crowd.I also don't believe SOE should develop and balance classes based upon what a handful of people worldwide can do with it.  I don't believe they should gravitate toward the middle either, that only encourages mediocrity.  I am glad to have something to aspire to.  That is not to say that some love shouldn't be shown.  I think our class can tank as well as zerkers and guards in MOST scenarios... but at far too high a cost in terms of power.  We simply need to burn too much of it to keep pace.To make up for mitigation we get heals and wards.  Cool.  Problem is they chew up power and are interruptable.  We have fewer taunts, but our wards and heals generate hate.  Great, but once again, they are easily interruptable and eat excessive power.  To take advantage of our intelligence line, we need to equip a symbol????  [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]?  We have to give up avoidance and mitigation from a shield to use a symbol?  And yes, you can hotbar the shield and symbol and swap them in and out to cast the attack, but that is more than ridiculous.  Not that a buckler is much better, but it is BETTER than having to equip a symbol for God's sake.So yeah, we could use some love... and we can all hope to be as equippes as Itoock someday, but that is not likely to happen.  In the meantime, a little love would be great.<div></div>

[Xoen Miller]

<P>I think this Itoock charicter is weeksauce and you all should pick someone else to compare yourselves to...</P> <P> </P> <P>HEY I am only kidding... " locks doors Turns out lights"</P>

[MeridianR]

<div><blockquote><hr>Xoen Miller wrote:<div></div> <p>I think this Itoock charicter is weeksauce and you all should pick someone else to compare yourselves to...</p> <p>HEY I am only kidding... " locks doors Turns out lights"</p><hr></blockquote>Like Phov!Just for [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]s and giggles, I compare myself to a few paladins...mainly Itoock and Equus (who never posts)....now that isn't saying that I haven't looked at other Paladins' gear / AA's, but these two are the people I most often compare to.Yeah, and before anyone gets there panties in a bunch, that isn't saying there aren't others great geared and skilled Paladin's out there either....these are just the two main one's that I baseline against <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Nurta]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MeridianR wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Xoen Miller wrote:<BR> <P>I think this Itoock charicter is weeksauce and you all should pick someone else to compare yourselves to...</P> <P> </P> <P>HEY I am only kidding... " locks doors Turns out lights"</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Like Phov!<BR><BR>Just for [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]s and giggles, I compare myself to a few paladins...mainly Itoock and Equus (who never posts)....now that isn't saying that I haven't looked at other Paladins' gear / AA's, but these two are the people I most often compare to.<BR><BR><STRONG><EM>Yeah, and before anyone gets there panties in a bunch</EM></STRONG>, that isn't saying there aren't others great geared and skilled Paladin's out there either....these are just the two main one's that I baseline against <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>That sounds like kinky foreplay Phov <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>

[Zodi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nevarer wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> uzhiel feathered serpent wrote:<BR> <P>Err...umm..no, we dont compare to Warriors in that regard either, Mr. "Tool Bag".</P> <P>A berserker can plain out make you look silly in DPS. As for guardians, just take a look at their combat arts, damage, and recast. That should give you an inkling.</P> <P>now combine it with buckler reversal...</P> <P>Its ok though. I really cant blame you for not knowing or doing research, since you seem well..kinda of..dont want to say ignorant, but misinformed. </P> <P>Always happy to help the newbies out. </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I think this person just likes to cry and make himself think he is special.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nevarer wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> uzhiel feathered serpent wrote:<BR> <P>Err...umm..no, we dont compare to Warriors in that regard either, Mr. "Tool Bag".</P> <P>A berserker can plain out make you look silly in DPS. As for guardians, just take a look at their combat arts, damage, and recast. That should give you an inkling.</P> <P>now combine it with buckler reversal...</P> <P>Its ok though. I really cant blame you for not knowing or doing research, since you seem well..kinda of..dont want to say ignorant, but misinformed. </P> <P>Always happy to help the newbies out. </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I think this person just likes to cry and make himself think he is special.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Couldnt say it better myself

[Crib92]

<DIV>Was this thread so riveting that you had to bring it back from the dead?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Kaleyen]

Apprently<div></div>

[Alir]

Dont make a paladin u evil so and so........   We dont want your kind here...............  Stay in FP where you belong!!  I will be along shortly to dispatch you with a Holy [Removed for Content] kicking!