Focused on healing

[Gwydion20]

<DIV>I know most of you rolled a paladin just to tank, but that's not my case, i liked the versatility of the class and i find my APs lacking in abilities which could help my healing performance. I'll take the risk of being called an heretic and ask SOE to add better Aps in EOF which improve this DEFINING utility of the paladin. I don't mind if we fall inmediatly behind  the worst healing class (fury probably) but i would love to be able to fill that role when necessary if i invest enough time and APs at least. They could change the lame wisdom CA responsible for the decreasing use of swords between crusaders and put a decent group and raid heal. But if this is impossible due to paladins sharing Aps with our nemesis Shadowknight and a heal doesn't fit  with that class, the easiest way would be to add EOF Aps who follow this path.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know we have heal crits and probably the last Str AA would help too, but there's no really "Healer paladin" path which i would love to see to spice things a bit. And no, i don't want to turn EQ2 paladin into WOW one, but AAs allow for customization and this won't be a "must have" at all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sorry for my english.</DIV>

[Twofeets]

"I don't mind if we fall inmediatly behind  the worst healing class (fury probably) but i would love to be able to fill that role when necessary"Sorry, had to chuckle at this one.  Having a 70 pally and a 69 fury Im quite familiar with both classes.  It still amazes me that after all this time people still think furies are weak healers.  At 67 my fury was able to solo heal Blackscale and HoF.  The problem with most furies is they concentrate too much on DPS and forget they are healers.As to pallies, I agree, I love playing the healing role with my pally.  Hit gear is decent (mainly instance legendary, with 2 pieces of Xego), and he can tank fairly well, I love the roll of 2ndary tank/healer.  I keep all his wards/heals at Adept III or master, but their recast timers can prove to be fatal at times.  Because a pally is already a strong class, Im not sure how much they can do to improve the healing without taking away from our other abilities, but perhaps a new stance type spell (trading defense/offense for reduced recast times or some such) would help.All in all, Im pretty happy as is though.  Other than the competition for plate armor due to the 100k other plate wearers in my guild, I love my pally.<div></div>

[Gwydion20]

<P>The new stance idea sounds great. On the other hand if you invest Aps to be a better healer you're not investing them to be a better Dpser or tank so it sounds fair for me anyway.</P> <P>Sorry for minusvaloring furies, no offense i don't really have a clue about which healer is the best or worst one.</P><p>Message Edited by Gwydion2000 on <span class=date_text>08-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:08 AM</span>

[Tazr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Twofeets wrote:<BR>"I don't mind if we fall inmediatly behind  the worst healing class (fury probably) but i would love to be able to fill that role when necessary"<BR><BR>Sorry, had to chuckle at this one.  Having a 70 pally and a 69 fury Im quite familiar with both classes.  It still amazes me that after all this time people still think furies are weak healers.  At 67 my fury was able to solo heal Blackscale and HoF.  The problem with most furies is they concentrate too much on DPS and forget they are healers.<BR><BR>As to pallies, I agree, I love playing the healing role with my pally.  Hit gear is decent (mainly instance legendary, with 2 pieces of Xego), and he can tank fairly well, I love the roll of 2ndary tank/healer.  I keep all his wards/heals at Adept III or master, but their recast timers can prove to be fatal at times.  Because a pally is already a strong class, Im not sure how much they can do to improve the healing without taking away from our other abilities, but perhaps a new stance type spell (trading defense/offense for reduced recast times or some such) would help.<BR><BR>All in all, Im pretty happy as is though.  Other than the competition for plate armor due to the 100k other plate wearers in my guild, I love my pally.<BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Um since when is it a problem if someone decides to spec their fury for damage? o_O  We have an illusionist that basicly is a wizard, he pulls massive DPS and its constantly in the top section of our parses, do we bug him because he forgets to be an illusionist, of course not, there is a lot individualization.  Furies can be good dps, if they choose not to heal, its not a "Problem" <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[ArcticFlare Arcadi]

One of the reasons I like my pally is in fact I can heal myself and not rely on people in the group at the last min for a heal then fizzles out. I just love the group healing we have, But unfortunantly my big weakness is in my stamina but I can usually turn things around with my heals.I also do prefer being a secondary tank , I dont mind MT a bit but  people got to get it in their head that were no guardian or beserker.:smileywink:

[Anzak]

I don't want to see more healing potental added to us.  The reason is simple.  We are already weaker tanks than warriors by a long shot.  And the arguement that is used is that we can heal so they should be better tanks.  If we get more healing options that will just add fuel to the fire rather than giving us a valid point for situational tanking.  If you want to play a healer in plate roll a cleric in fact they can get pretty good mitigation as well.As a side note in one of the fights last night I parsed almost 87K in healing.  Which while at the bottom of the list for the 5 healers we had.  It was only just bearly below most of them.  So I think we have plenty of healing if we need to play that role.  The down side to this is that doing this hurt my DPS badly but since a healer was what was needed for that fight well that is the role I filled.  That is our only strength is being able to play more than one role depending on what is needed.<div></div>

[Gwydion20]

<DIV><EM>"If you want to play a healer in plate roll a cleric in fact they can get pretty good mitigation as well."</EM></DIV> <P>As i said i like versatility, clerics are too much specialized on healing for my taste.</P> <P><EM>"Warriors are better tanks than us by a long shot"</EM></P> <P>I think you're wrong by a long shot, we can tank anything, we just need to struggle more for uber gear in order to reach the mit cap. We excel at group tanking specially small groups without healer. I don't want more general healing abilities added, i just want enough eof Aps to customize my char as a healing focused paladin which i like. I hope they add things for you who want to be the star, the man standing alone. I will sacrifice that to choose what i like more. I hate the unidirectional class most of you want the paladin to be. If you want to be the best tank (and do nothing else) roll a guardian. Leave my paladin as he is and allow him to improve in all his paths.</P> <DIV><BR></DIV>

[Boli32]

If offensive stance now givies + disruption, a nice way to gain 'extra healing power' woudl be to have +ministration and +focus on the defensive stance... allowing you to heal/ward more whilst in combat as a MT getting fewer fizzles/interuptsFrom what I gathered when I played my pally is it wasn't the amount of healing a pally can do (in fact they are pretty efficient at it), it was you could spend too long casting, and recasting due to interupts and fizzles they were more a disadvantage than an advantage whilst tanking.<div></div>

[Anzak]

<div><blockquote><hr>Gwydion2000 wrote:<div><em>"If you want to play a healer in plate roll a cleric in fact they can get pretty good mitigation as well."</em></div> <p>As i said i like versatility, clerics are too much specialized on healing for my taste.</p> <p><em>"Warriors are better tanks than us by a long shot"</em></p> <p>I think you're wrong by a long shot, we can tank anything, we just need to struggle more for uber gear in order to reach the mit cap. We excel at group tanking specially small groups without healer. I don't want more general healing abilities added, i just want enough eof Aps to customize my char as a healing focused paladin which i like. I hope they add things for you who want to be the star, the man standing alone. I will sacrifice that to choose what i like more. I hate the unidirectional class most of you want the paladin to be. If you want to be the best tank (and do nothing else) roll a guardian. Leave my paladin as he is and allow him to improve in all his paths.</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote><img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I get that roll a guard a lot which is why I said roll a cleric if you want to heal.   As for warrirors being better tanks by a long shot that is very true.  Forget group and solo.  Each class solos differently.  As for grouping any tank with half a brain cell can tank for a group.  Outside of zones I'm doing for the first or second time I practically fall asleep tanking group content.  Raid tanking is where the difference really is.  And if you think our heals and ward make up for the 3-4% Base mitigation warriors have over us you are crazy.  Then throw in their mitigation buffs, tower of stone, and tsunami abilities.  I never said we can not tank raid mobs.  There is plenty of proof agianst that.  But the point is that there is enough of a difference in raiding tanking abilities that warriors are a much better choice and so unless you are lucky and in a guild that doesn't feel they need to use their best chance every time then you are stuck as healing/DPS.The more I think about this I really think Steel hit the solution right on the head.  Ranged slot item that gives a bit more mitigation than warriors AA.  We should have a slightly higher base mitigation to make up for the fact that warriors abilities are slightly better then our heals and ward.  Even with say 50-100 more mitigation warriors are still the better raid choice but not nearly as much as they are now.</div>

[Gwydion20]

<DIV> <EM>"I get that roll a guard a lot which is why I said roll a cleric if you want to heal.   As for warrirors being better tanks by a long shot that is very true.  Forget group and solo.  Each class solos differently.  As for grouping any tank with half a brain cell can tank for a group.  Outside of zones I'm doing for the first or second time I practically fall asleep tanking group content.  Raid tanking is where the difference really is.  And if you think our heals and ward make up for the 3-4% Base mitigation warriors have over us you are crazy.  Then throw in their mitigation buffs, tower of stone, and tsunami abilities.  I never said we can not tank raid mobs.  There is plenty of proof agianst that.  But the point is that there is enough of a difference in raiding tanking abilities that warriors are a much better choice and so unless you are lucky and in a guild that doesn't feel they need to use their best chance every time then you are stuck as healing/DPS.<BR><BR>The more I think about this I really think Steel hit the solution right on the head.  Ranged slot item that gives a bit more mitigation than warriors AA.  We should have a slightly higher base mitigation to make up for the fact that warriors abilities are slightly better then our heals and ward.  Even with say 50-100 more mitigation warriors are still the better raid choice but not nearly as much as they are now."</EM></DIV> <P><EM></EM> </P> <P>You're right but the fact is i don't really care about raid tanking, i like my toon due to his versatility and utility which warriors have none. There are enough of you asking to turn our class into another warrior one (just with a winged trash can on our heads). I ask for better customization and the chance to choose what kind of paladin i want to be. You don't really need that symbol to do what you think is "fix" our class, soe will have to add an eof AA which gives 300 mit and you'll be happy again. I just hope they don't forget there are other kind of players who don't give a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about being the raid MT. Which versatility do clerics have? none they're healers, period and i find that as boring as to be just a tank.</P> <DIV><EM><BR></EM></DIV>

[uzhiel feathered serpe]

<P>Yes, but you also forget that the Paladin is first and foremost a tank. I rolled my Paladin to tank, which he can do, im not debating that point. </P> <P>My point is that here we have a tank that needs heals to do his job. If you wanted grp heals and more versatility, a troub or a warden might have been a better choice.</P> <P>Is the paladin class broke? not by a long shot...</P> <P>But what some of you keep forgetting is that a Paladin is a tank, not a grp healer, rezzer, etc. Hell, when this game came out, Paladins didnt even have grp heals.</P> <P>If I wanted a healer, I would have rolled a temp or a defiler. </P>

[Boethius_Permafrost]

Healing is an essential part of paladinhood.  Trying to deny it is dooming yourself to suckitude.  That said, I am able to get the job done with my current heals.<div></div>

[OrcSlayer96]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gwydion2000 wrote:<BR> <DIV> <EM>"I get that roll a guard a lot which is why I said roll a cleric if you want to heal.   As for warrirors being better tanks by a long shot that is very true.  Forget group and solo.  Each class solos differently.  As for grouping any tank with half a brain cell can tank for a group.  Outside of zones I'm doing for the first or second time I practically fall asleep tanking group content.  Raid tanking is where the difference really is.  And if you think our heals and ward make up for the 3-4% Base mitigation warriors have over us you are crazy.  Then throw in their mitigation buffs, tower of stone, and tsunami abilities.  I never said we can not tank raid mobs.  There is plenty of proof agianst that.  But the point is that there is enough of a difference in raiding tanking abilities that warriors are a much better choice and so unless you are lucky and in a guild that doesn't feel they need to use their best chance every time then you are stuck as healing/DPS.<BR><BR>The more I think about this I really think Steel hit the solution right on the head.  Ranged slot item that gives a bit more mitigation than warriors AA.  We should have a slightly higher base mitigation to make up for the fact that warriors abilities are slightly better then our heals and ward.  Even with say 50-100 more mitigation warriors are still the better raid choice but not nearly as much as they are now."</EM></DIV> <P><EM></EM> </P> <P>You're right but the fact is i don't really care about raid tanking, i like my toon due to his versatility and utility which warriors have none. There are enough of you asking to turn our class into another warrior one (just with a winged trash can on our heads). I ask for better customization and the chance to choose what kind of paladin i want to be. You don't really need that symbol to do what you think is "fix" our class, soe will have to add an eof AA which gives 300 mit and you'll be happy again. I just hope they don't forget there are other kind of players who don't give a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about being the raid MT. Which versatility do clerics have? none they're healers, period and i find that as boring as to be just a tank.</P> <DIV><EM><BR></EM></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>The Healer and raider paladin views are both good, accept that neither side is wrong and go from there.  One thing i will take exception to is the myth that warriors have no utility to them.  Anariele and others can give you better info from experience, but are you aware that the guardian has the ability of reducing a player in his group's hate by almost as much as our amends?  What about group protection abilities that actually work after the intercept fix?  How about Berserker's group proc berzerk that can increase player's dps and haste by 28%?  I do not begrudge those classes at all for those and other abilities, but i say hogwash when people say warriors have no utilities.  </P> <P>P.S.  Dont forget the guardian group health buff that raises players health by over 600 health, for many mages that is a good 1/4 of their health.  Having a tier 7 higher mitigation symbol as a CHOICE, does not impact the players that are more attuned to healing/supporting role.<BR></P>

[Anzak]

We really have 3 main roles.  Healer, DPS, Tank.  We should have AAs that depending how you set up make any one of them better since we are really sub-par in all 3 when you look at it.  Sure I can do a good deal of healing if set up right or even a good deal of DPS with a different set up.  Though still less than other classes.Right now what we have is we have increased crit chances for heals, spells, and melee.  We could get haste though at the loss of some of this.  We can also get reduced recast time though that is a big loss.  We can get increased hate which honestly we do not need.  When you look at our AA lines we really have a good amount to help with healing.  Increase wis and str for more power, increase int for higher heals, increase heal crit chances.  So you could set yourself up to be a really good healer.  Get the godking scepter and you can increase it even more.  Not to mention maxing out incombat group regen.  At the same time we can change things around and go heavy DPS and there are a number of ways to do this.  Melee crits, Spell crits increase STR and INT increase your weapons skills, haste, reduce recast.  Through in a relic BP and pants and you can get even more.  So depending on how you feel about certain skills you can decide what you need to increase your DPS.  What do we have for tanking though?  More HP, a flawed Tsunami that is basically useless on raid mobs, immunity to fear which is not a big deal either, and in combat regen which over the course of a raid fight would not even add up to one hit.So when someone asks for more healing options you can see why I get upset.  We already have the that if you spec right.  When some one asks for more DPS again if you spec right we have that.  Though I will say it is a bit on the low side even specced right though I think it is a fair trade off for everything else we can do.  But the one place that we can not spec into a stronger role is tanking and more importantly raid tanking.  In resist gear, offensive mode, and a two hander and giving pledge to a zerker I was still enough mitigation to easily tank any group zone in the game.  Group tanking is a joke for the most part.  So when you talk about tanking you have to talk about raid tanking.<div></div>

[Gwydion20]

I know i'm repeating myself but the fact that i don't care about raid tanking doesn't mean SOE is not going to throw us a bone with EOF APs to better fill our tanking role. I hope all raid tanking problems get fixed with the next expansion, not sure if it's going to be via more mitigation or via % healing or something but i think it's going to be done. The fact is you can't expect all EOF Aps to be focused on tanking, we'll get other things and it's my desire to get a couple of good abilities or even a full path in order to heal better. Just that

[Anzak]

Yes I do hope there are paths for all of that.  But currently the lost mitigation in the AAs means our tanking path is sub-par.I would love to see maybe something like 4 paths.  Tanking, DPS, Healing, Utility.... Maybe throw in a balanced 5th path.  As long as the tanking paths allows us to be very close to warriors in terms of raid tanking and maybe gives us an edge for certain mobs I think I will be happy.  That and give us a ranged items with some mitigation to fix the balance they broke in this expansion.<div></div>

[Gwydion20]

Signed.

[Tazr]

I completely dropped my mitagation gear, went full out on dps gear, respecced my AA lines to healing AA's.  I have a blast spot healing the raid and really pull in some good parses.  The raid has noticed a difference in me switching.  The heals are good and strong, get adept 3's/master 1/master 2 in them all and you will see the difference almost instantly <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Gwydion20]

<DIV>All my heals and ward are adept III master I or master II. I upgraded heals first. We could get another heal which just works on another char, never on ourselves.</DIV>

[Lifeswor]

Can't speak for higher levels, as I'm only level 47 on my Paladin, but with all Master spells on my heals I am quite happy, apart from the idea that someone suggested about putting focus on our defensive stance. We are first and foremost tanks, having multiple interrupts and fizzles in a row is just annoying, and our utility (healing) should be compatible with our main role, ie. tanking.Apart from that though, I'm loving the balance between tanking, healing and dps. Frequently my group heals make the difference, and wards/heals/LoH can save many a tough or stuffed-up fight. Maybe I'll think differently at higher levels or in the raid scene, and I'm not against the OP's idea of having AAs focusing on heals. But if I'm playing what Paladins are, let's not ruin it too much <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Message Edited by Lifesworde on <span class=date_text>09-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:01 PM</span>

[Turb]

I wouldn't be surprised if we couldn't heal 50-60% of what a 'real' healer can do, maybe even a shade more with maxed heal crits on the INT line.Where we lack is cures, and we should lack there. In raids and challenging instances, fast and effective cures are paramount.That's - rightly - why we're always 2nd class healers.