TU 26a... WOOT!

[Leawyn]

<DIV>From TU 26a notes:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>- Paladin: Penitent Sacrament: Removed spell component cost.<BR>- Paladin: Blessing of the Penitent: Removed summoning of spell component as a proc.<BR> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>About time... now if only they'd do this for my coercer too, she racks up about 10x more than I do in an night lol!</DIV>

[FlintAH]

Did they remove them from those 2 or the whole line?<div></div>

[TheManInTheBox]

<font face="Comic Sans MS">Glad this finally got put through.</font><div></div>

[OrcSlayer96]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> FlintAH wrote:<BR>Did they remove them from those 2 or the whole line?<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>My guess the whole line the do that all the time by mention only one of the names it is called, that will free up some space in my inventory finally...<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Now when are they going to change our Hooluk hat to level 67? heheheh.</P> <P> </P>

[Zo]

<span></span><div></div>nice! they listen <span>:smileytongue:</span>

[nopen]

Took them long enough jeeezz.....but im happy now ^_^

[Hakan]

<P>Ah, good, they got the memo.  Covers on allt he TPS repots, too.</P> <P>Hakanek</P>

[madha]

<P>*does the happy dance* saves room in my bags when i tank.  Although they could leave it as is but let us sell them =P</P> <P> </P>

[Monfar]

Bah , they should make us buy the darn things just like i.e rangers ,temp and conj have to buy components and have the cast time taken away. I'd be happy to pay 1-2g (or more).No auto summon , buy essence at a vendor and make the spell an actualt usefull insta heal instead. I had no real problem with the things stacking in my bag , the spell having such a long cast time that it has no real use bugs me (especialy now with all stuns of players nerfed and mobs having more stuns).

[Hakan]

<P>True... if the spell were useful, we wouldn't have so many essences because we would use them.  Its barely more efficient than my single target heal, and a lot slower.</P> <P>Hakanek</P>

[Crib92]

<DIV>If I play for 5 hours I may use this spell once.  Completely worthless</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Wulfborne]

Woohoo! I just deleted over 200 of these from my inventory tonight. Yay for more lewt space!~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul<div></div>

[Anariale]

<DIV>This does literally nothing to affect Paladins.</DIV> <DIV>Well... we get one more inventory spot back.  Whoopty doo.</DIV>

[MeridianR]

Stupid change - wow the devs listen to the important stuff... <span>:smileyindifferent:</span><div></div>

[Wulfborne]

Regardless of how relatively minor or stupid it is.... It *is* something we've been asking for for the past year or so. Why so bitter that they finally got around to it? The fact that they did this does not mean they have done it instead of something else. It's only part a of the update. If we're lucky they'll continue to fix stuff for us with the rest of it. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul<div></div>

[MeridianR]

<div><blockquote><hr>Wulfborne wrote:Regardless of how relatively minor or stupid it is.... It *is* something we've been asking for for the past year or so. Why so bitter that they finally got around to it? The fact that they did this does not mean they have done it instead of something else. It's only part a of the update. If we're lucky they'll continue to fix stuff for us with the rest of it. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul<div></div><hr></blockquote>.....because this change does nothing for me - I use at max 4/5 of these a week.  The heal just isn't worth it, even when soloing due to the insane casting time associated with it.....I would have rather had a 99% chance of getting one of these things, if the cast time was reduced to instant or 1sec.</div>

[Wulfborne]

<div></div>I don't use the heal that often myself, either. I wasn't rejoicing that they had done anything miraculous with the spell to make it more effective. I was happy the stupid essences wouldn't be filling up half my inventory slots every night. Not the greatest improvement in the world, but one less annoyance is one less annoyance. /shrug~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul<div></div><p>Message Edited by Wulfborne on <span class=date_text>07-24-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:28 AM</span>

[DocSavag]

Yea I'm happy about the change for the same reason. Not because it makes the heal any better but because right now the stupid essences are killing me. I have to stop and remove them from my inventory constantly. They are pointless because they are generated far more often than they are used up and they have no other use which means no marketablity.

[Crib92]

<P>Actually the one essence that used to bug me were the Necro ones.  I always had to clear them out of inventory.  Stinkin Necros.  Who knows where they've been.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Arraza]

<P>I can't get excited about this.  Firstly, of ALL the things that need work with the paladin class, they address this?  Seriously, that's just weak.  You think its becuase they are listening to us?  I think its to help simplify their spell system and its related coding and reduce the number of in game items, and this just happened to be an easy target.  I don't think its because they 'listened' to us, or wanted to help out our class (which it doesn't do by any stretch of the imagination).</P> <P>Secondly, who has inventory problems?  My god, I carry around 4 - 32 slot boxes with me, plus two more bags and even fully loaded its only 1/3 of my weight carrying capacity.  Do I care that I have a couple stacks of essences in there somewhere?  I don't even notice them until I start selling to vendors and clearing out my boxes after a week of adventuring.</P> <P>I'm not trying to sound bitter, but this does nothing except for eleviate the most trivial of nuisances with our class.  Paladins need some lovin, and this is SOE telling us they have a headache.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[MeridianR]

Yeah space isn't a big deal for me either, 6 Rosewood boxes in my inventory for when I go farm and I have no issues.I can see how some people are happy with this I guess, but I would just prefer for some other changes as opposed to people getting excited just to see the Paladin: <Randon Change> in the Update notes.<div></div>

[Anzak]

The usefullness of this spell could have been addressed or heck the lack of mitigation to allow us to tank raid mobs with at least close to equal footing with warriors.  This looks like someone look at the pally boards for 30 seconds found the easiest thing to fix that was mentioned here and then did that to try and make pallies think they are being looked at as closely as the other classes.<div></div>

[Anariale]

<P>Think of it this way.  Dev time isnt infinite, so the time they spent making this non-change could have been spent doing something else... and if you think this wasnt some hot-topic debate by SOE over months, you dont know much about MMO Design.  </P> <P>Its beauracracy at its worst.</P> <P>Its ok though, my Guardian only needs 55% XP to hit 70.</P> <P>W</P>

[Anzak]

<div><blockquote><hr>Anariale wrote:<div></div> <p>Think of it this way.  Dev time isnt infinite, so the time they spent making this non-change could have been spent doing something else... and if you think this wasnt some hot-topic debate by SOE over months, you dont know much about MMO Design.  </p> <p>Its beauracracy at its worst.</p> <p>Its ok though, my Guardian only needs 55% XP to hit 70.</p> <p>W</p><hr></blockquote>My guardian is waiting for EoF.  Going to make a Fae Guard with bright pink wings so people will be able to pick her out easy in a raid. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[OrcSlayer96]

<DIV>Kinda funny, a live update with a posted change to the pallie class that nobody on this board considers a nerf and still i hear the griping.  I agree they have not yet fixed more important bugs nor tweaked spells that have become less usefull from some of the updates.  Maybe you do not feel that getting rid of essences has any meaning, but to me when i solo or group i find stacks of these buggers in my inventory, competeing with my gear and other items.  They never developed further on the concept of using these so it was high time to pull the plug on creating essences.  How long did it taker to get a ranged slot symbol?  How long to be able to use Axes?  How long to be able to use Spears?  How long to be able to use Tower Shields?  Sure they usually take forever and a day to get to us on some of our issues and we still have outstanding problems, but to say nothing is ever done is a lie.  If i deleted the name of our forum and inserted any of the other 23 classes there, I imagine those classes agree to having outstanding problems and major bugs fixed too.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If we as a class want to be fixed on what is truely bugs, we need to post concrete numbers and examples about what needs to be fixed and not have it torn down by our own people.  We should post it out on the spell and combat section and if necessary repeat it with a new thread every month or so while trying to get other classes to help out.  If all you want to do is post how paladins suck and you cant wait to play another class instead, play that class and move out of our forum and into those greener pastures you think is better and let the rest of us try to help the new pallies and pallies that stick to it improve themselves.  If you are frustrated, and need to blow off steam, kill 1,000 deer or something in Thundering Steppes....<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Anariale]

<P>Its a non-change.</P> <P>It does absolutely nothing to address the problems with the Paladin class.</P> <P> </P> <P>Again, its ok though... Guardian is 70 now.  Another Paladin on the server asked me yesterday, "How is tanking without being able to heal yourself?"  My response, "I dont even have to heal myself anymore".  Seriously, 2nd best geared Paladin on Permafrost (arguably the best tanking Paladin) has been benched because the class flat sucks.</P> <P>Guardian ftw</P><p>Message Edited by Anariale on <span class=date_text>07-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:52 AM</span>

[Leawyn]

<DIV>I <3 Steel!</DIV>

[MeridianR]

<div><blockquote><hr>Anariale wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <p>Its a non-change.</p> <p>It does absolutely nothing to address the problems with the Paladin class.</p> <p>Again, its ok though... Guardian is 70 now.  Another Paladin on the server asked me yesterday, "How is tanking without being able to heal yourself?"  My response, "I dont even have to heal myself anymore".  Seriously, 2nd best geared Paladin on Permafrost (arguably the best tanking Paladin) has been benched because the class flat sucks.</p> <p>Guardian ftw</p><p>Message Edited by Anariale on <span class="date_text">07-26-2006</span> <span class="time_text">11:52 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>I say you and Savage go to the arena and see who wins!! <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span></div>

[Anariale]

<DIV>Haha, Savage is built more offensively than I am (pretty sure he is Int/Str AA's).  Ive looked at his armor, and I dont think he focused on getting as many tanking items (some of his armor just perplexes me, TBH).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Nothing but respect for the guy</DIV>

[Mantell]

<P>I agree the heal spell is nearly useless, but now Blessing of the Reverent will be a fairly lousy buff as well. It only gives me 260 hp or something if I recall. I guess it's better than not having 260 hp. but I have to take up space on my hotbar with this? Make it add 100 mitigation or something. Doesn't have to be a game breaker, just make it worth stopping to cast it.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[MeridianR]

I am fairly secure in saying that I am the best geared Paladin on Unrest <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Arraza]

hehe... at master1 it gives you 376... w00t!  That means i can take one more hit from a green mob... <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DarthKerwin wrote:<BR> <P>I agree the heal spell is nearly useless, but now Blessing of the Reverent will be a fairly lousy buff as well. It only gives me 260 hp or something if I recall. I guess it's better than not having 260 hp. but I have to take up space on my hotbar with this? Make it add 100 mitigation or something. Doesn't have to be a game breaker, just make it worth stopping to cast it.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[MeridianR]

There are some things to [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about, and others not to <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Put it in prospective:Blessing of the Reverent @ M1 = 376 HPOwl's Reparation @ M1 = 390 HP - so a priest classes' only HP buff gives 14 more HP then ours'In the same group as a Guardian, a Crusader with the Stamina line of AA's will have more HP - so our HP issue to me, is no longer an issue. Solo wise they will have more due to Return to War, but we should have more power.<div></div>

[Leawyn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MeridianR wrote:<BR>I am fairly secure in saying that I am the best geared Paladin on Unrest <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Only cuz I left... (I can dream, can't I?)

[OrcSlayer96]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MeridianR wrote:<BR>There are some things to [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about, and others not to <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR>Put it in prospective:<BR><BR>Blessing of the Reverent @ M1 = 376 HP<BR>Owl's Reparation @ M1 = 390 HP - so a priest classes' only HP buff gives 14 more HP then ours'<BR><BR>In the same group as a Guardian, a Crusader with the Stamina line of AA's will have more HP - so our HP issue to me, is no longer an issue. Solo wise they will have more due to Return to War, but we should have more power.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Exactly, we are the only Fighter class that has a self only health buff that i know of.  If you put all 6 fighter groups in a group and all of them had same amount of stamina/health before buffs are factored in, a paladin will have the most health.  The guardians buff is like 660 health or so to group, shadowknights get their health from a group sta/str buff, the berzerker has his group health regen buff.  As far as i know bruisers/monks have no health buffs, single or groupwise.  The Templer's Holy redoubt is a nice 800 plus health single target buff and Defilers are the king of health buffs.  Try a group that has a pallie, guardian, defiler,templer,necromancer(85 sta/int group buff), and enchanter/bard for some nice group health/damage...<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>

[MeridianR]

<div><blockquote><hr>OrcSlayer96 wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> MeridianR wrote:There are some things to [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about, and others not to <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Put it in prospective:Blessing of the Reverent @ M1 = 376 HPOwl's Reparation @ M1 = 390 HP - so a priest classes' only HP buff gives 14 more HP then ours'In the same group as a Guardian, a Crusader with the Stamina line of AA's will have more HP - so our HP issue to me, is no longer an issue. Solo wise they will have more due to Return to War, but we should have more power. <div></div> <hr> </blockquote>Exactly, we are the only Fighter class that has a self only health buff that i know of.  If you put all 6 fighter groups in a group and all of them had same amount of stamina/health before buffs are factored in, a paladin will have the most health.  The guardians buff is like 660 health or so to group, shadowknights get their health from a group sta/str buff, the berzerker has his group health regen buff.  As far as i know bruisers/monks have no health buffs, single or groupwise.  The Templer's Holy redoubt is a nice 800 plus health single target buff and Defilers are the king of health buffs.  Try a group that has a pallie, guardian, defiler,templer,necromancer(85 sta/int group buff), and enchanter/bard for some nice group health/damage...<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><hr></blockquote>Yeah in a group with:GuardianDefilerTemplarI would have over 13k buffed.</div>

[Anariale]

<P><EM>Exactly, we are the only Fighter class that has a self only health buff that i know of.</EM></P> <P>Guardians get a group HP buff and a self STA buff.  Paladins have slightly more HP than Guardians, if they go down the STA line.  However, it doesnt matter since Paladins take a metric monkeypoo-ton more damage than a Guardian does. </P>

[Leawyn]

Aren't you a guardian now? /rolls eyes

[OrcSlayer96]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Anariale wrote:<BR> <P><EM>Exactly, we are the only Fighter class that has a self only health buff that i know of.</EM></P> <P>Guardians get a group HP buff and a self STA buff.  Paladins have slightly more HP than Guardians, if they go down the STA line.  However, it doesnt matter since Paladins take a metric monkeypoo-ton more damage than a Guardian does. </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Why is that we have a discussion that concerns health and when it shows that a pallie that specs on the stamina line will have more raw health coupled with a master blessing of the reverant, people try to flip it to mitigation again?   The point that some of us are trying to prove is that health wise, a specced paladin will have more health than a specced guardian when both are in the same group, period.  Mitigation is a whole other beast and there have been numerous posts on how we as a class could have improvements to existing spells to help defray the mitigation loss to the warriors.  Just so we are all on the same page concerning plate tank buffs for health and group stats:</P><FONT size=2> <P><STRONG><U>Shadowknight</U></STRONG>: Unhallowed Strength(lvl 61) 54 STR/54 STA group effect</P> <P><STRONG><U>Berzerker</U></STRONG>:        Roar(lvl 65) 122 STR group effect</P> <P>                        Combative Rage(lvl 61) 82 in combat health regen group effect</P> <P><STRONG><U>Guardian</U></STRONG>:        Fortified Conviction(lvl 70) 66 STA self buff</P> <P>                       Return to War(lvl 61) 677 max health group effect</P> <P><STRONG><U>Paladin</U></STRONG>:           Ardent Belief(lvl 61) 54 WIS/54 STR group effect</P> <P>                       Blessing of the Reverant(lvl 66) 367 max health self buff</P> <P>Note: Factor on paladin is their heals, plus their ward is a temp health protection to all damage and all listed spells above and below are master 1 versions.</P> <P><STRONG><U>Paladin</U></STRONG>:           Devotion(lvl 6<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> wards self/raid/group target for 1,376 points of damage, 2 seconds of casting, 15 seconds recast, 24 seconds  duration.</P> <P>                       Reverent Sacrament(lvl 6<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> self heals for 2099-2566 points of health, 3 seconds of casting, 5 minutes recast.</P> <P>                       Celestial Touch(lvl 62) Heals target for 3326-4066 points of health, instant cast, 15 minutes recast.</P> <P>                       Fervent Aid(lvl 64) Heals target for 864-1056 points of health, 2 seconds of casting, 5 seconds recast.</P> <P>                       Prayer of Consecration(lvl 5<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Heals Group targets for 839-1026 points of health, 3 seconds of casting, 7.5 seconds recast.</P> <P><BR> </P></FONT>

[enjoilab]

<P>for pvp ill take more hp and heals over more mit any day</P> <P> </P> <P>Edited i am sure i am the best geared pally on the venekor server and possible have the most mit on the qeynos side too (its a mit battle between our raid mt and me our raid ot)</P><p>Message Edited by enjoilabel on <span class=date_text>07-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:53 PM</span>

[MeridianR]

<div><blockquote><hr>enjoilabel wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <p>for pvp ill take more hp and heals over more mit any day</p> <p>Edited i am sure i am the best geared pally on the venekor server and possible have the most mit on the qeynos side too (its a mit battle between our raid mt and me our raid ot)</p><p>Message Edited by enjoilabel on <span class="date_text">07-26-2006</span> <span class="time_text">06:53 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Wow not a lot of geared up tanks on that server eh...your gear is pretty lacking compared to the top PvE Paladins (let alone guardians)</div>

[Anariale]

<DIV>Sigh... nothing I said was incorrect.  Noone is even coming close to disputing the fact that a Paladin with the STA line has more HP (its very minor, but more nonetheless), and I didnt even mention the word Mitigation.  Welcome to internet forums, I guess.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Again, this change is a waste of time.  Noone ran out of essences.  It took 1 out of >200 inventory slots to have a stack.</DIV> <DIV>This change does nothing to affect Paladin effectiveness in any way.  They are still the bottom of the barrel for fighter classes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>W</DIV><p>Message Edited by Anariale on <span class=date_text>07-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:52 AM</span>

[Crib92]

<P>I guess it boils down to class defining attributes.</P> <P>When you think of the different fighter classes what makes them valuable?  What is the Pally class defining attribute?  Jack of all trades, master of none? </P> <P>What would the Pally's like to see as our differentiator?  Or is what I stated it?  And if so, is it just a poor selection on your part for not doing the research before selecting a class?</P>

[OrcSlayer96]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Anariale wrote:<BR> <DIV>Sigh... nothing I said was incorrect.  Noone is even coming close to disputing the fact that a Paladin with the STA line has more HP (its very minor, but more nonetheless), and I didnt even mention the word Mitigation.  Welcome to internet forums, I guess.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Again, this change is a waste of time.  Noone ran out of essences.  It took 1 out of >200 inventory slots to have a stack.</DIV> <DIV>This change does nothing to affect Paladin effectiveness in any way.  They are still the bottom of the barrel for fighter classes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>W</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Anariale on <SPAN class=date_text>07-27-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:52 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Sorry Anariale the post i did before wasnt aimed intentially at you, just in general to the people i have seen posting that they want the same mitigation buffs that guardians have.  I imagine the ton of damage you were talking about is a combo situation, less standard avoidance, less mitigation, and no real damage absorbation like tower of stone and buffed temp mit spells.  I am still a big supporter of getting a ward that actually helps adress this issue, but so far no response from devs on any raid support..<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   The only part i was addressing to you was the fact that if you have officially given up on the paladin and strictly will only play guardian, let it go and move over to the guardian forums.  I fully understand your frustration on MT capabilites as a raid tank that were mentioned at the beginning of the game, but if you are not having fun, play a class that gives you satisfaction.  I pay to be entertained and have fun in this game, not to be stressed out like i am at work.   If my pallie becomes a chore and dispointment to play i would either reroll or quit the game, so far i feel just as good about my pallie now that i did from december of 04...<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>

[Leawyn]

<DIV>Steel once again speaks my mind in words better than I can express :smileyhappy:</DIV>

[Anzak]

Towards whitefang - Many of us made pallies on day one of the game under the assumption that SOE gave us that all fighters could tank.  Which is true, but the second half of their statement is that it would be situational.  Currently there is no raid situation where a pally or any other class for that matter is better than a guard.Simple facts here these are all things that guards have that make them better tanks than any other class.1) Bonus Mitigation from AA - Ok zerkers get this as well but pallies have nothing to make up for this to keep them even close to on par.2) Self/Group temp Mitigation buffs - Again Zerkers have a lesser group one but our heals and wards are suppose to make up for this yet we have nothing that is a self buff that makes up for the self mit buff they have.  Our self heal is as close it it comes and this is useless on raids.3) Tower of Stone - We have nothing to make up for this.4) Two Tsunami (AA and BP) - We get one from AA though it is not as strong as the guard one vs raid mobs as ours is geared towards group mobs and we don't get the click effect on from the BP that is Warrior only.Sure we can get a few more HP but over the course of a single fight against a raid mob the damage stopped for the extra mitigation Guards have is going to more than out strip the little bit of extra HP we have.I don't want to get the same things guards have but I do want to see the tanking field made more level and the promise of situational tanking made a reality.Reduce the recast of our self heal to 1.5 minutes and make it instant or 1 second cast.  This will make it useful and help off set the guardian's self only abilities.Give us bonus mitigation in the form of AA or Crusaider only gear that makes up for the AA mitigation guards get.  This includes giving back the mit on our tablet which was taken away in T7.Finally we should have a click effect Tsunami item so we can have 2 Tsunami's as well as guards, and our Tsunami needs to be slightly better balanced for dealing with raid mobs rather than group mobs.  Maybe make it block anything up to 65-70% rather than 50%Just the three things I have listed above would bring us much closer to guardians though they still have the edge overall.Heres and Idea for situational tanking as well.  Give us a buff that has a high chance to proc a short duration mitigation buff when ever an undead mob hits us.  This would make us situationally better vs undead since most if not all of the fight our mitigation would be above what a guard can but the duration would be short enough that it even if you chain pulled the effect would not last long into the next fight if even past the pull.Anyway I'm just rambling again.  I really hope they do something in EoF to address the tanking balance in this game.<div></div>

[OrcSlayer96]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Anzak wrote:<BR>Towards whitefang - Many of us made pallies on day one of the game under the assumption that SOE gave us that all fighters could tank.  Which is true, but the second half of their statement is that it would be situational.  Currently there is no raid situation where a pally or any other class for that matter is better than a guard.<BR><BR>Simple facts here these are all things that guards have that make them better tanks than any other class.<BR><BR>1) Bonus Mitigation from AA - Ok zerkers get this as well but pallies have nothing to make up for this to keep them even close to on par.<BR>2) Self/Group temp Mitigation buffs - Again Zerkers have a lesser group one but our heals and wards are suppose to make up for this yet we have nothing that is a self buff that makes up for the self mit buff they have.  Our self heal is as close it it comes and this is useless on raids.<BR>3) Tower of Stone - We have nothing to make up for this.<BR>4) Two Tsunami (AA and BP) - We get one from AA though it is not as strong as the guard one vs raid mobs as ours is geared towards group mobs and we don't get the click effect on from the BP that is Warrior only.<BR><BR>Sure we can get a few more HP but over the course of a single fight against a raid mob the damage stopped for the extra mitigation Guards have is going to more than out strip the little bit of extra HP we have.<BR><BR>I don't want to get the same things guards have but I do want to see the tanking field made more level and the promise of situational tanking made a reality.<BR><BR>Reduce the recast of our self heal to 1.5 minutes and make it instant or 1 second cast.  This will make it useful and help off set the guardian's self only abilities.<BR>Give us bonus mitigation in the form of AA or Crusaider only gear that makes up for the AA mitigation guards get.  This includes giving back the mit on our tablet which was taken away in T7.<BR>Finally we should have a click effect Tsunami item so we can have 2 Tsunami's as well as guards, and our Tsunami needs to be slightly better balanced for dealing with raid mobs rather than group mobs.  Maybe make it block anything up to 65-70% rather than 50%<BR><BR>Just the three things I have listed above would bring us much closer to guardians though they still have the edge overall.<BR><BR>Heres and Idea for situational tanking as well.  Give us a buff that has a high chance to proc a short duration mitigation buff when ever an undead mob hits us.  This would make us situationally better vs undead since most if not all of the fight our mitigation would be above what a guard can but the duration would be short enough that it even if you chain pulled the effect would not last long into the next fight if even past the pull.<BR><BR>Anyway I'm just rambling again.  I really hope they do something in EoF to address the tanking balance in this game.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>This is the type of post i like to see on our forums, excellent post Anzak...<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Iike the idea of changing our sacrament heal to be on a 90 second reuse timer and with stun changes/mob interupts a 1 second cast time would make this a powerful spell in our lines.  I think we have a better chance at getting a 1 second cast versus instant cast(might look like  having a lay on hands to devs).  If the spell cost stays, it will be the main factor on how often in a long battle we would use it.</P> <P>The comment about no mit symbols in tier 7 is another thing we need to keep bringing up on threads.  Currently if i need a little more mitigation, i use the cobalt censer for 114 mitigation and lousy stats.  A tier 7 crafted symbol should be in there also, probably a xegonite censer or idol or something that applies at least 150 mitigation to the bearer.  If the Devs dont want to mess with our spells, it would be alot easier to introduce a crafted mitigation symbol like that in tier 7, after all i thought they were making the tiers similar to each other...<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></P> <P>I agree also that we have no comparable tower of stone for us either, our divine aura would be alot better if it either had the 50% or less took out or the 30 hits maxxed took out.  Currently, with both of these in place plus not able to protect against epic specials, 15 minute recast and very short duration, it has remained a gilded [Removed for Content] option for AA choice for me.</P> <P>All in all, i think this problem could be remedied the easiest by the specialization AA choices hinted at in EOF expansion.  If I knew for sure they had reliable,useful,effective raiding upgrades in the paladin only AA paths then i will feel ok to grind thru the months before the expansion comes out.  I have a sinking feeling that no more AA modifications for the better will be applied our crusader line, and can hope for at least spell casting time reductions on sacrament and mit symbols for tier 7.  Now if only i could get back into the PaldinsforRight channel again but alas the GM's are not listening for the last 3 months...<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Anariale]

<EM>Now if only i could get back into the PaldinsforRight channel again but alas the GM's are not listening for the last 3 months...<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></EM> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Use the command to load a UI from another toon, to copy your UI from your Paladin to an Alt.  Then copy that toon's UI back to your Paladin.  It should fix the broken chat channels.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think its /loadui_settings but Im not entirely sure.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>W</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Vathranen]

<P>The thing that I have noticed is that Paladin mitigation (or lack thereof) is made up in the form of heals and wards when compared to warriors. The problem with this is the silly rate of interrupts we get since LU13. This is especially awful in PvP where almost every attack is an interrupt. You don't want to be a tank when you're 1/3 mage and 1/3 healer and everybody that's attacking you is using kick and cheap shot.</P> <P>It seems to me that they "tried" to alleviate this somewhat with our first AA point - the +20 focus when under 50% health. This is great for PvE where your interrupts are caused by auto attack damage; true stuns being more sporadic. However, as I said, in PvP there are many fights where I never get a spell cast before I die under a hail of interrupting stuns.</P> <P>I think that first AA point should just be "immune to stun/interrupt if under 50% health".  Heck, even scout evac can't be interrupted unless it's a stun and only if the stun is still in effect when the evac goes off.</P> <P> </P> <P>As to the original topic - I agree this heal is worthless due to its casting time. If it were 1 second I'd use it no matter what the recast timer is. My major complaint being interrupts it's pretty obvious that I don't like that super-long casting time. Another point I'd like to bring up here - look at our counterpart's spell here. Shadowknights get to summon a skeleton to fight for them. Extra DPS, a pet that chases your target and prevents stealth, someone to take a hit for you. Way better if you ask me.</P><p>Message Edited by Vathranen on <span class=date_text>07-29-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:38 AM</span>

[Anzak]

Vathranen,    Interrupts aside.  Plan and simple outside of our self heal which is currently useless if you are MTing a raid.  All our heals and wards can be cast cross raid.  This means we can use them just as effectively if not more so on a guard.  Yet they have Extra Mit in their AA, Temp self mit buff, Tower of Stone, and a Tsunami BP. So if we Leave their self temp buff as it is.  Then make Tower of Stone targetable so they can cast it on someone else and protect them sort of like intercede.  Though they would still need to be able to cast it on themselves or course.  That still leaves the extra AA Mit and the extra Tsunami unaccounted for and the fact that even if we could get our self heal off in a decent time so that it actually healed something over the recast a guard would be able to block more damage with his self mit buff than we could heal over that same length of time.<div></div>

[MeridianR]

<div><blockquote><hr>Anzak wrote:Vathranen,    Interrupts aside.  Plan and simple outside of our self heal which is currently useless if you are MTing a raid.  All our heals and wards can be cast cross raid.  This means we can use them just as effectively if not more so on a guard.  Yet they have Extra Mit in their AA, Temp self mit buff, Tower of Stone, and a Tsunami BP. So if we Leave their self temp buff as it is.  Then make Tower of Stone targetable so they can cast it on someone else and protect them sort of like intercede.  Though they would still need to be able to cast it on themselves or course.  That still leaves the extra AA Mit and the extra Tsunami unaccounted for and the fact that even if we could get our self heal off in a decent time so that it actually healed something over the recast a guard would be able to block more damage with his self mit buff than we could heal over that same length of time.<div></div><hr></blockquote>hehe you forgot a Tsunami AA <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Vathranen]

<P>Yeah I see where you're coming from.</P> <P>I was just talking about general grouping and gameplaying as I'm not a raider and have no desire to be the raid MT (though on Venekor things are looking so bad they're suggesting I do it).</P>

[Anzak]

<div><blockquote><hr>MeridianR wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Anzak wrote:Vathranen,    Interrupts aside.  Plan and simple outside of our self heal which is currently useless if you are MTing a raid.  All our heals and wards can be cast cross raid.  This means we can use them just as effectively if not more so on a guard.  Yet they have Extra Mit in their AA, Temp self mit buff, Tower of Stone, and a Tsunami BP. So if we Leave their self temp buff as it is.  Then make Tower of Stone targetable so they can cast it on someone else and protect them sort of like intercede.  Though they would still need to be able to cast it on themselves or course.  That still leaves the extra AA Mit and the extra Tsunami unaccounted for and the fact that even if we could get our self heal off in a decent time so that it actually healed something over the recast a guard would be able to block more damage with his self mit buff than we could heal over that same length of time.<div></div><hr></blockquote>hehe you forgot a Tsunami AA <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><hr></blockquote>Nope their Tsunami AA vs ours.  While I think theirs might be a little better we atleast have one to say we have something that is close to equal.</div>

[Male]

<P>I guess my problem not just only comes from the cast time of this spell, it's the reuse timer. I leveled my Shadowknight to level 68, and I can say the their dumbfire pet (sacrament line) is far more useful than the paladin one. Fighting yellow conned mobs or even conned with ^'s I could use it not only once if I wished, but twice in ONE fight! A 30 second recast. Why isn't this one a 30 second recast aswell. Heck even a 1 minute recast with a 1 second cast time could even things out between the two.</P> <P>I never understood why these varied. I could even cast the pet to help out another player while they were in locked combat. I can't even use this paladin spell on a group mate. It just boggles my mind :smileyindifferent:</P> <P>Sir Eragon Sterling</P> <P>53 Paladin - Unrest</P>

[Hakan]

<P>Grats on 53 Eragon=P</P> <P>Hakanek</P>