Paladins seem to be weak..

[ChopStix]

<DIV>I have a 67 paladin that just seems to be weak... they do great in a group as an off tank... but for pvp play they seem to be about the weakest class.. anyone else thinking this? and they also seem to be about the most nerfed class, didnt know they nerfed the symbol and now we cant use it to dash now..... seems to me they need to be nerfing the assassin and brigand class....  or being the shadowknight can evac i think we should get one also being we're suppose to be somewhat of a mirror class of the sk... anyone else seem to think this of the paladin class or is it just me...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>mitigation is 3000 with no buff ,3405 with def. buff.. no special armor.  xegonite helmet, cuirass of protection, pungent chitin spaulders, rezhirs bracers of the task, chitin plated gauntlets, prismatic legplates, talonlord footsteel.. definetly working towards the fabled gear now and wanting it in a bad way..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>stats with no buff</DIV> <DIV>str 281</DIV> <DIV>agi 172</DIV> <DIV>sta 328</DIV> <DIV>int 121</DIV> <DIV>wis 239</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>stats with def. buff</DIV> <DIV>str 281</DIV> <DIV>agi 172</DIV> <DIV>sta 328</DIV> <DIV>int 121</DIV> <DIV>wis 366</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>stats with off. buff</DIV> <DIV>str 396</DIV> <DIV>agi 172</DIV> <DIV>sta 328</DIV> <DIV>int 236</DIV> <DIV>wis 239</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>achievement points are messed up at the moment but not to bad.. hopefully i'll fix them later on</DIV> <DIV>points are set as follows</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>str 3/0/0/0/0</DIV> <DIV>sta 5/0/0/0/0</DIV> <DIV>wis 4/4/5/1/0</DIV> <DIV>int 5/1/0/0/0</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> with 1 point available...</DIV> <DIV>where i ran into the problem with my ach points is , i out lvled our main tank by 8 lvls, hes a gaurdian.. so at first i figured he would be mt because this is the first time ive played this game and he was experienced player on another server ,so i started going with more dps, then when i out lvled him i turned into the mt, which leaves me lacking stamina... on this matter you think i should go ahead with the dps figure i initially intended and wait on him to catch up, or wait and restack my points... as far as dps goes, i can dish it out decently when i'm fired up... i had an oppurtunity to xp with a lvl 67 gaurdian and i could tell a paladin wasnt meant to mt... i worked awesomely as a dps/ emergency tank/emergency healer if an npc got on to a healer or caster..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>some of you old timer paladins please help a fellow crusader with some advice..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and thanks in advance, and you'll definetly hear more from me..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>have a nice day!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Knesh]

<DIV>For starters no I dont agree; now that may be true in PVP I dont know I play PVE. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2ndly,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>your mit is grossly awful (no offense) no wonder you can't tank at 67. You should at the VERY least be 4k unbuffed, period.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>also your defense plays a big role as well; what is your avoid, I am guessing in the low 40's defensively maybe high 30's.</DIV> <DIV>You need to increase some agility without comprising your mit. perhaps with a book of knowledge and wisdom I think its called that gives like 16+ to str, agi, and wis and I think sta too.</DIV> <DIV>You should have close to 50 avoid with 4K mit to be a quality tank. This needs to get better your plans are to start offtanking T7 raid mobs. It should be 4500k to 5500k mit and 50-55avoid, to be considered quality.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Perhaps grab some awakening scalelord legendary gear from POA this will help alot also the legendary shoulders from HOF and boots from sothis will definately help a lot, start working the claymore line once you hit the POA group quests you get some incredible gear. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and no I dont think paladins should get an evac.... SK's also get a FD do you want this too? Uhm... no... Now I dont know if we get something that SK's dont because i dont play an SK but it might be nice to have a unique ability or two that the SK's dont have, doesn't have to be evac or FD because quite frankly pretending to die is cowardly for a paladin and I dont want to be tanking and having to know when to evac too...</DIV><p>Message Edited by Knesh on <span class=date_text>07-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:52 PM</span>

[Novalos]

<P>While I'm not quite at your level of play, I play a 47 Paladin on the Nagafen server.  It was clear from beta that Paladin was not going to be a strong PvP class <EM>one on one, </EM>and I was aware of this when I chose the class.  Our abilities really shine in groups, often due to other peoples underestimating of our abilities.  With our instant heal, full health rez, wards and group heals, I've been able to keep a PvP group up and running against considerably stronger foes.</P> <P>As you can see from the "What T7 mobs have you tanked?" thread, Paladins are just as viable an option for tanking as any other fighter class when it comes to PvE.  That thread alone could have answered your question.</P>

[Leawyn]

<DIV>I gotta agree that your mitigation is SORELY lacking. I don't know what its like on PVP, i'm a PVEer all the way, but with some POA gear, some xegonite to fill out where you don't have at least equal mitigation, and starting the hat quest and some HOF runs will help. Tho with only 3000 mitigation, i can't see you tanking HOF.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, i might suggest if your guild is interested, hitting up some T6 raids and gear up that way. That stuff will considerably improve your stats so you can better tank T7 group mobs.</DIV>

[ChopStix]

<P>wheres our damage spell of 3500-5500 like a sk gets???  what do we get apposed to the sk?? a heal. hard to heal when your dead brother..  if your look at the spells or a paladin opposed to other fighter classes we give out by far the least amount of damage.. why is this?</P> <P> </P> <P> yes i'm taliking pvp, i've been on vox since the server went live, and ive even had many other paladins ask me if i think our class is weak, and i have to agree with them we are.. you cant call a paladin a fighter because they dont do enough damage, they dont have the taunts,they dont have any high damage spells whatsoever, all they can do is absorb damage and heal [if you can get a heal off without interruption], and heal the main tank, and give him some mitigation. and then die because you have no mitigation..</P> <P>could someone enlighten me one this? and why nothing is being done about it!!!!!!!</P>

[Wulfborne]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ChopStix wrote:<BR> <P>wheres our damage spell of 3500-5500 like a sk gets???  what do we get apposed to the sk?? a heal. hard to heal when your dead brother..  if your look at the spells or a paladin opposed to other fighter classes we give out by far the least amount of damage.. why is this?<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>It's right under your disease based attacks and lifetaps. :smileysurprised: You aren't an SK so don't ask for their abilities. Our Lay Hands line is the counter to their Harmtouch. Our heal for their hurt. Also our heal is 0 mana, and instant cast - so if you're getting interrupted, the other person is just freaking lucky. They're both on the same recast timer, too, iirc. Sounds pretty balanced to me...</P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ChopStix wrote:<BR> <P> yes i'm taliking pvp, i've been on vox since the server went live, and ive even had many other paladins ask me if i think our class is weak, and i have to agree with them we are.. you cant call a paladin a fighter because they dont do enough damage, they dont have the taunts,they dont have any high damage spells whatsoever, all they can do is absorb damage and heal [if you can get a heal off without interruption], and heal the main tank, and give him some mitigation. and then die because you have no mitigation..<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>As was mentioned before, your mitigation is pretty crappy. get some decent gear and giving that miti buff to the MT won't hurt so bad. Also if you want more damage, run the Intelligence line of AAs to improve on that.</P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ChopStix wrote: <P>could someone enlighten me one this? and why nothing is being done about it!!!!!!!<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Because there's not really anything to do? What exactly do you want?</P> <P>~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul<BR><BR><BR></P>

[Leawyn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wulfborne wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ChopStix wrote:<BR> <P>wheres our damage spell of 3500-5500 like a sk gets???  what do we get apposed to the sk?? a heal. hard to heal when your dead brother..  if your look at the spells or a paladin opposed to other fighter classes we give out by far the least amount of damage.. why is this?<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>It's right under your disease based attacks and lifetaps. :smileysurprised: You aren't an SK so don't ask for their abilities. Our Lay Hands line is the counter to their Harmtouch. Our heal for their hurt. Also our heal is 0 mana, and instant cast - so if you're getting interrupted, the other person is just freaking lucky. They're both on the same recast timer, too, iirc. Sounds pretty balanced to me...</P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ChopStix wrote:<BR> <P> yes i'm taliking pvp, i've been on vox since the server went live, and ive even had many other paladins ask me if i think our class is weak, and i have to agree with them we are.. you cant call a paladin a fighter because they dont do enough damage, they dont have the taunts,they dont have any high damage spells whatsoever, all they can do is absorb damage and heal [if you can get a heal off without interruption], and heal the main tank, and give him some mitigation. and then die because you have no mitigation..<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>As was mentioned before, your mitigation is pretty crappy. get some decent gear and giving that miti buff to the MT won't hurt so bad. Also if you want more damage, run the Intelligence line of AAs to improve on that.</P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ChopStix wrote: <P>could someone enlighten me one this? and why nothing is being done about it!!!!!!!<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Because there's not really anything to do? <FONT color=#ff0000>What exactly do you want?</FONT></P> <P>~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul<BR><BR><BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>What every red-blooded PvPer wants... the dps of an assassin, the hps and mitigation of a guardian, the healing power of a templar, no interrupts, no fizzles and never ever ever losing a battle and learning something from it.

[ChopStix]

<P>take a look at all the other fighter class's and tell me which one the paladin can even remotely come close to in melee damage, or casting damage?</P> <P> </P> <P>so if your down to half health and a SK hits you with pestilent touch for 3000-6000 disease damage and kills you, you going to heal yourself when your dead??or an assassin hits you with decapitate at what 5500-7500 melee damage.. fire off that heal, i dont think so!!!!!</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>this is exactly what i'm talking about..we have nothing to counter high damage spells, no melee damage at the higher lvls, no casting damage at higher lvls, nothing that stands out as the sk does, life draining and adds to thier life, might as well be a heal over time, plus its a dot.. these are just a couple of instances and spells i'm using i could probably compare every spell of a pally and sk from lvl 60 on and get the same thing...</P> <P> yes my mitigation is low, i know this, knew it coming into this post thats why i put it in here...but mitigation and heals will get you nowhere against these high damage spells in a pvp encounter, well maybe make the fight last a little longer before you die.. as when you heal yea great you healed, but if your getting hit in the process by melee or disease or whatever else, the heal is completely useless, becasue your not putting out any damage while your healing yourself, just taking damage in that negates the heal anyways, get my point?</P> <P> what we need is a heal over time that we can use on ourself with a long recast timer or someting.. it sounds stupid but we need something either a high damage melee, or casted spell and not talking refusal of conviction with its measly 850-1500 divine damage, like others have stated previously this isnt much if you have 4500 mitigation, and 6500 health and your hitting half as much because your having to heal yourself in the middle of a fight!!!</P> <P> </P> <P>i'm not complaining at you guys, i just think soe needs to do something about it ,either nerf those high damage hits/spells or give the pally something, the simplist would be to nerf those high damage spells..  yes i know a wizard puts out alot of damage, but his downfall is absolutely no mitigation.. a sk and assassin gets the best of both worlds, plus a sk, if he gets in trouble low on health hit the evac. cya!!!  a paladin just heals and then dies cant evac... </P>

[treedo]

Dude, go roll an SK.you know, the grass is always greener........<div></div>

[ChopStix]

<P>treedog,</P> <P> </P> <P> its people like you that dont need to be allowed in forums!!</P>

[Leawyn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ChopStix wrote:<BR> <P>treedog,</P> <P> </P> <P> its people like you that dont need to be allowed in forums!!</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>People like <STRONG><EM>HIM!? </EM></STRONG>Have you listened to yourself? His point is extremely valid and spot on. If you like what the SK's can do, there's an NPC you can talk to in Qeynos that will start you on your way there.

[Wulfborne]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ChopStix wrote:<BR> <P>take a look at all the other fighter class's and tell me which one the paladin can even remotely come close to in melee damage, or casting damage?</P> <P>so if your down to half health and a SK hits you with pestilent touch for 3000-6000 disease damage and kills you, you going to heal yourself when your dead??or an assassin hits you with decapitate at what 5500-7500 melee damage.. fire off that heal, i dont think so!!!!!</P> <P>this is exactly what i'm talking about..we have nothing to counter high damage spells, no melee damage at the higher lvls, no casting damage at higher lvls, nothing that stands out as the sk does, life draining and adds to thier life, might as well be a heal over time, plus its a dot.. these are just a couple of instances and spells i'm using i could probably compare every spell of a pally and sk from lvl 60 on and get the same thing...</P> <P> yes my mitigation is low, i know this, knew it coming into this post thats why i put it in here...but mitigation and heals will get you nowhere against these high damage spells in a pvp encounter, well maybe make the fight last a little longer before you die.. as when you heal yea great you healed, but if your getting hit in the process by melee or disease or whatever else, the heal is completely useless, becasue your not putting out any damage while your healing yourself, just taking damage in that negates the heal anyways, get my point?</P> <P> what we need is a heal over time that we can use on ourself with a long recast timer or someting.. it sounds stupid but we need something either a high damage melee, or casted spell and not talking refusal of conviction with its measly 850-1500 divine damage, like others have stated previously this isnt much if you have 4500 mitigation, and 6500 health and your hitting half as much because your having to heal yourself in the middle of a fight!!!</P> <P>i'm not complaining at you guys, i just think soe needs to do something about it ,either nerf those high damage hits/spells or give the pally something, the simplist would be to nerf those high damage spells..  yes i know a wizard puts out alot of damage, but his downfall is absolutely no mitigation.. a sk and assassin gets the best of both worlds, plus a sk, if he gets in trouble low on health hit the evac. cya!!!  a paladin just heals and then dies cant evac... </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Riiiight... ok, let's look at this. Other fighter class comparison.. ok, we're close to Guardians in melee dps. There ya go. And we surpass them in Spell casting DPS.</P> <P>Nothing to counter high end spells? You have got to be kidding. Work on your mitigation and resists.. That disease based spell SKs get that you seem to be infatuated with? Up your disease resists and it won't land. /shrug How about your wards, eh? Those are pretty effective to counter the high end spells. Raise those in tier (master 1's for example) and it's that much more damage that they waste trying to go through. Oh, and if they just wait out the ward to tick down before DPSing you some more, guess what - the ward heals you for whatever amount they didn't chew through.</P> <P>If mitigation has no value vs these high end and high damage abilities, then I guess you might as well run around in leather armor. You'll survive a lot more in that.... right? (sarcasm)</P> <P>A heal over time would possibly be a good suggestion. I can't argue this. However, since it's not in our current line up of spells, I'd assume any such addition would likely be one of those "specialized" things that we get once. But rest assured that those SKs will get something similar to counter it, like an additional dot. Again, with your complaints of low damage, use the int AA line, and max your int and str out and you'll hit harder. I don't know how to make that clearer for you. That "measly 850-1500 divine damage" from the Refusal line was hitting for over 2.5k for me when I went that line, and my int was still nowhere near max.</P> <P>To your final point, you will never gain ground by calling for nerfs to other classes. You lose even more credibility when your "issues" arise only within the PvP spectrum. The devs have stated they will not adjust things for PvP which have an effect on PvE (though some argue they already have). If you want an evac, there are items that allow you to have it (roots from your plant or items from quests come to mind). Try damage shields against people that flurry hit you to death. Pesky mage that nukes you to oblivion? Go the AA route that includes a 'reflect" spell and burn him with his own nuke.</P> <P>Your only hold up is your own creativity and unwillingness to look for a solution.</P> <P>Good luck.</P> <P>~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul<BR></P>

[Leawyn]

Wow.... Steel has competition for my affection after that post Hawke!

[Wulfborne]

<DIV>I could only dream to match his knowledge and wit... :smileywink:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul</DIV>

[Rocksthemic]

If you are playing a paladin expecting to be a DPS person, you will always be dissapointed. Paladins are a DEFENSIVE tank. We are not designed to nuke people into oblivion. If you are soloing in PvP as a pally, you will have a rough go of it. Where we shine (as has been stated before) is groups. We have amends, shield bash, and taunts to keep aggro with. Up your mitigation, and just accept you will NEVER be a top dps class. If you want high nukes, backstabs, or anything of that nature, you need to re-roll. Thundaarr Unrest <Nightcap> <div></div>

[Rast]

<P>We are the opposite of the Shadowknight.  We are the heal to their hurt.  We win by outlasting the opponent.  Learn to play the class, when to use wards, when to use your heals (you have like 4 of them, including the 1 instant and from what I've seen uninteruptable LoH line).  Keep your ward up and let your mitigation and resists do what they do best.</P> <P>Now again, I don't know about PvP and quite frankly I don't care about it.  To me is was one of the worst mistakes SoE has ever made (even over the crap they've done to Tradeskillers), all PvP added to a PvE game does is cause balance issues that should have never mattered just to attempt to make everyone equal.</P>

[Majorminor]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ChopStix wrote:<BR> <P>take a look at all the other fighter class's and tell me which one the paladin can even remotely come close to in melee damage, or casting damage?</P> <P> </P> <P>so if your down to half health and a SK hits you with pestilent touch for 3000-6000 disease damage and kills you, you going to heal yourself when your dead??or an assassin hits you with decapitate at what 5500-7500 melee damage.. fire off that heal, i dont think so!!!!!</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>this is exactly what i'm talking about..we have nothing to counter high damage spells, no melee damage at the higher lvls, no casting damage at higher lvls, nothing that stands out as the sk does, life draining and adds to thier life, might as well be a heal over time, plus its a dot.. these are just a couple of instances and spells i'm using i could probably compare every spell of a pally and sk from lvl 60 on and get the same thing...</P> <P> yes my mitigation is low, i know this, knew it coming into this post thats why i put it in here...but mitigation and heals will get you nowhere against these high damage spells in a pvp encounter, well maybe make the fight last a little longer before you die.. as when you heal yea great you healed, but if your getting hit in the process by melee or disease or whatever else, the heal is completely useless, becasue your not putting out any damage while your healing yourself, just taking damage in that negates the heal anyways, get my point?</P> <P> what we need is a heal over time that we can use on ourself with a long recast timer or someting.. it sounds stupid but we need something either a high damage melee, or casted spell and not talking refusal of conviction with its measly 850-1500 divine damage, like others have stated previously this isnt much if you have 4500 mitigation, and 6500 health and your hitting half as much because your having to heal yourself in the middle of a fight!!!</P> <P> </P> <P>i'm not complaining at you guys, i just think soe needs to do something about it ,either nerf those high damage hits/spells or give the pally something, the simplist would be to nerf those high damage spells..  yes i know a wizard puts out alot of damage, but his downfall is absolutely no mitigation.. a sk and assassin gets the best of both worlds, plus a sk, if he gets in trouble low on health hit the evac. cya!!!  a paladin just heals and then dies cant evac... </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I've beat, and yes Lost to..Monks, Assasins, Troubadors, Dirges, Bruisers, Rangers, Druids, SK's, </P> <P>/shrug those were duels  don't PvP but its about using what tools you do have, not wishing you had the tools.</P>

[Midsong]

<div></div>The fun of pvp.If you don't like the fact that people have advantages over you on a character level, why do you want to pvp in an rpg. Pvp is is fundamentally imbalanced in a class based system.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Midsong on <span class=date_text>07-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:16 PM</span>

[Kaleyen]

I play on a PvP server...we're not weak.  Just the majority of the people don't know how to play them IN PvP.  I can take on basically any class one on one.<div></div>

[Knesh]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kaleyen wrote:<BR>I play on a PvP server...we're not weak.  Just the majority of the people don't know how to play them IN PvP.  I can take on basically any class one on one.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>riiiiight and im superman. I would love to see you take on a conjuror or necor of equal level - for that matter a swasy, too....

[Kaleyen]

<div><blockquote><hr>Knesh wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Kaleyen wrote:I play on a PvP server...we're not weak.  Just the majority of the people don't know how to play them IN PvP.  I can take on basically any class one on one. <div></div> <hr> </blockquote>riiiiight and im superman. I would love to see you take on a conjuror or necor of equal level - for that matter a swasy, too....<hr></blockquote>I have before, it hurts but I've done it.  Only Fury and Warden give me issues.</div>

[Kaleyen]

And I can't fight Conj's just Necro's.<div></div>

[ChopStix]

<P>wolfborne,   thank you.. seems like youve played a paladin a while... very imformative...  the sk class i'm actually not to worried about i've fought them and won, its just that almost every other class has some kind of high damage spell but not the paladin..thats my only gripe..</P> <P> </P> <P>leawyne... look on the pvp leaderboards, any pallies in the top 200? nope....</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> and i agree with you guys we pallies shine in a group,  we had a lvl 70 healer, 67pally,64 conj,64wiz, 60 trouby,and 58 gaurdian last night in the forgotten city xp'ing and general adventuring.. and a paladin was priceless in that group.. i sure stayed busy i know that, tanking/dps and emergency heals and such and a rez here or there ,it was a blast and a great group of guys to be with.. also ran into a few groups of fps last night sanctum and wiped them a few times...</P>

[Wulfborne]

<P>Not a problem. :smileywink:</P> <P>If there are no Pallys in the top 200, it gives you a goal to shoot for, no? Do us proud, and kick their butts.</P> <P>~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul</P>

[Leawyn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ChopStix wrote:<BR> <P>wolfborne,   thank you.. seems like youve played a paladin a while... very imformative...  the sk class i'm actually not to worried about i've fought them and won, its just that almost every other class has some kind of high damage spell but not the paladin..thats my only gripe..</P> <P> </P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>leawyne... look on the pvp leaderboards, any pallies in the top 200? nope....</FONT></P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> and i agree with you guys we pallies shine in a group,  we had a lvl 70 healer, 67pally,64 conj,64wiz, 60 trouby,and 58 gaurdian last night in the forgotten city xp'ing and general adventuring.. and a paladin was priceless in that group.. i sure stayed busy i know that, tanking/dps and emergency heals and such and a rez here or there ,it was a blast and a great group of guys to be with.. also ran into a few groups of fps last night sanctum and wiped them a few times...</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Spelled my name wrong but i can forgive ya <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I don't look at the PVP leaderboard. I don't know how they work. Does the whole group get a credit for a kill or only the person who lands the killshot? Anyway, its all lame to me, i hate PVP. All about who's [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] is larger lol!<BR>

[Hakan]

<DIV>Chopstix,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In PvP,  Paladin is going to be an underpowered class... because the nature of PvP is opposed to the nature of a Paladin.  Paladins are a primarily defensive class.  Offense is ALWAYS easier than Defense, eventually everyone gets ambushed and as you said... its very tough to LoH if the HT kills you instantly.  If you looke dlike you would win, they wouldn't have attacked you in the first place.  The attacker gets to chose... the defender just has to cope.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That said... I would reroll the AAs.  You will probably want to have a different set of armor for PvE and PvP.  For PvP focus on mobility, the AGI line specifically.  Invest in POTIONS, HEX DOLLS, and TOTEMS:   every dirty trick in the book.  If you play fair, you will lose.  Is your computer fast or slow?  If it is slow, focus on passive defenses like mitigation / resist.  If it is fast, you may be able to dodge spells by getting behind trees or under water or over hills. PICK the fights, go out and kill people don't wait for them to come to you.  That will help more than anything else.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Your Mitigation, as the other Paladins have made abundantly clear, is too low to tank raid mobs.  However, how much physical mitigation do you need to fight wizards and necros?  Design your character to do a certain task: kill spell casters, for example.  Just accept the fact that if you get caught by the wrong class at the wrong time, you will die.  If you want everything, you get nothing.  Focus on being good at something, and forget the rest of it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hakanek</DIV>

[ChopStix]

<P>i think the group gets credit, its split up evenly as far as guild points and personal status...</P> <P> </P> <P> i wish you would roll a paladin on a pvp server just to see how it is, it would change your mind drasticly of the paladin class in the pvp environment,  pve i wouldnt have anything else, we're too versatile....</P> <P>dont get me wrong, i'm not bashing the class or anything, i love playing the paladin... we just seem weaker to everyother class out there as far as pvp dps goes, maybe its just me but the pvp stats on ca's and spells are weak in general, they work ok on npc mobs, but no way can i solo a triple up heroic even conned npc ,one on one, which some have stated they can. i would have to see that to believe it... i dont think paladins put out enough damage to do that. pvp i hope its a caster thats attacking me, other than that i cant do much of anything..</P> <P> </P> <P>i have a lvl 28 ranger that puts out more burst dps than my lvl 68 paladin, no special gear on the ranger either [ AQ items and pristine oak longbow] and i'll upgrade to stormfire probably and lock his xp down at 32 maybe 34 and put feysteel gear on him, i rolled the ranger because the simple fact the paladin is weak in the pvp envionment, and the ranger has alot of burst dps, yes thats the easy way out but all i could do right now... and the ranger works great in pvp... i took out 2 lvl 28 freeporters yesterday, got the drop on my first target, dropped him like a sack of potatos ,then had to work to get the 2nd kill in... i hear an assasin has even more dps than a ranger, dunno wont roll an assasin...</P>

[Boli32]

PvP - he who ganks first ganks lastPvP aside though you need to get more mitigation and more wisdom/resists. There is plenty of jewerly with + slashing + crushing+ piercing stats upon them especilaly in T7 and cobalt tablets in T6.<div></div>

[Kaleyen]

In PvP utilize the Forsaken City, the plate has resists/stats/hp/power.<div></div>

[therodge]

Did They give Conjurers a major boost on pvp servers becuase i dont have problems dueling conjurers i am 59 infact almost all casting classes seem pretty easy (expecially wizards) unless their is a very very large buff on conjuerers or nerf and paladins on pvp then im am quite confuzed

[ChopStix]

i have 2 guildmates that are conjurors,they both said they got nerfed pretty hard a few months back..

[Vathranen]

<P>I'll back you up on the crappy Paladin in PvP issue. I'm 68 and my gear is far from great, but it's serviceable. I'm close to what you all prescribed as necessary to be called "tank". The issue isn't so much class imbalances as is it mechanics of the game. As someone already said - this game wasn't made for PvP. Classes can't be balanced. It was my fault (and yours) for choosing the wrong class for PvP. Here is a list of reasons why Paladin is a poor choice for PvP:</P> <P>1) Low damage output. This is because Paladins get healing. I've actually been main healer for my group several times as many healers dropped out in the high levels to reroll as scouts. You can't have high defense, decent healing, and high damage in one package. (Though you can have tracking, safe fall, stealth, high defense, and high offense in one package but that's another can of worms)</P> <P>2) Resist rates in Tier 7. PvP in tier 7 is broken. The gear you start getting at level 60 has such high resists on it that many mages drop out of PvP and reroll as scouts. The one class that a Paladin excells against is a non-pet mage. Sadly I haven't seen one in a very long time. Doubled with this is the fact that half of the Paladin's offense comes in the form of spells. Fortunately nobody bothers with divine resistance because the only classes that use it are the lowest DPS ones.</P> <P>3) Damage scaling (offense vs. defense). When I played PvE I noticed that at level 50+ the mobs' hitpoints started increasing exponentially (seemed like) but so did the offense of the DPS classes. They tried to tone this down for PvP but it didn't work. The high damage hits didn't get toned down enough and the low damage hits stayed the same. You won't be one-shot by Decapitate, but it'll get you close enough to red that you have no hope of healing back up and winning. My ward at Adept 3 is 1300 and I crit it almost all the time from the INT AA line. 1300 is 1 combat art from an assassin or bruiser and two from any other class. It takes longer to cast than it does to punch through.</P> <P>4) Heals lowered for PvP. In PvP heals got lowered as well as damage output. However, they overdid it. Heals are reduced by more than 20% (I don't know if ward also got reduced, mine has never lasted long enough to really tell). Two healers can't keep a group alive if the attackers have more than one scout and one mage. And there's always more than one scout. Couple this issue with the <STRONG>long</STRONG> cast times on heals in addition to the huge animation that says, "I'm casting a heal, come interrupt me!" healing in PvP is somewhat of an oxymoron.</P> <P>4a) Without getting into a Shadowknight vs. Paladin discussion one things needs to be said here. Lay on Hands got toned down. Harm Touch did not. Harm Touch also gets a bonus from INT and says in its description "Very difficult to resist."</P> <P>5) Interrupts. 2/3 of the Paladin's arts are spells of either healing or damage. Both have animations that are very easy to see and hear and have casting times that are quite long enough to stop. With the new changes to stuns you can be stunned an entire fight, never even getting a single spell off. This happens to me often with the plethora of bruisers out there.</P> <P>6) Taunting capability. All other fighters' auto-taunt buff works in PvP. Monks can force their target to fight them exclusively with Dragon Stance. Berserkers and Guardians proc a taunt nearly every time they're hit. The Paladin's Amends and the Shadowknight's Tainted Caress line (I think that's what it's called) are both broken for PvP. Tainted Caress does nothing at all and Amends gives the target a 5% chance to proc a taunt from the Paladin when struck in PvP. Worthless. Normal taunts last 3 seconds no matter how upgraded and get resisted terribly in tier 7.</P> <P>To sum up, I agree with ChopStix's sentiment but maybe not his delivery. I'm not discussing 1:1 PvP as a Paladin as that's just foolish. But even in a group I'd rather be <EM>any</EM> other class as I'd feel like I could contribute something other than being an extra target. As ChopStix says - you'll spend an entire fight just trying in vain to heal yourself and your group but it's really an uphill battle. On one hand you want to taunt and try to save your group but on the other you know it won't last long, and it'll only mean you can't do anything yourself while you get the beatdown. If there's another tank such as a berserker then you're freed up to do a bit more but I honestly feel any other class would be better suited to any role that a Paladin could do.</P> <P>I think that the source of the problem is that the Paladin is one of the only true hybrid classes and neither tanking nor healing work very well in PvP so when you water both down and put them in one class you've got a lame duck.</P> <P>Our only saving grace is Doom Judgement. That attack is so good in PvP <EM>if it lands.</EM></P> <P><EM>EDIT: I also want to add that it's not too bad until post 50. Most classes work pretty well until then, but after 50 the damage scales up so fast that there's really no reason to play anything other than a DPS class.</EM></P><p>Message Edited by Vathranen on <span class=date_text>07-30-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:43 AM</span>

[Wulfborne]

<div><blockquote><hr>Vathranen wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <div></div><p>Our only saving grace is Doom Judgement. That attack is so good in PvP <em>if it lands.</em></p> <p>Message Edited by Vathranen on <span class="date_text">07-30-2006</span> <span class="time_text">04:43 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Just curious... Why is this spell good in comparison to any of our others?~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul</div>

[Vathranen]

<P>I have been told that maybe I focus a little too much on the negative, so here are a few ideas that I think would help make the Paladin a little better in PvP, give the class some individuality, but not overpower the class.</P> <P>1) The first AA point needs to be changed from <EM>+20 focus when under 50% health</EM> to <EM>immune to stun/interrupt effects when under 50% health</EM>. The AA as it is works fine for PvE where the mob's stuns and interrupts are sporadic, but it does nothing at all to help against Cheap Shot or one of the many kicks Bruisers get.</P> <P>2) The last AA point in the Wisdom line should be a group immunity to Fear effects in a radius around the Paladin. This would emulate the ability that Paladins get in 3rd ed. D&D and certainly fits in well with the class. This would be a very class defining ability as there are many Freeport classes that get fear and would be thwarted with a Paladin in the group. As it is now I don't think <EM>anybody</EM> has taken or will take the power.</P> <P>3) Amends needs to be changed to 100% chance to proc a taunt from the Paladin when the target is struck. IE - an Assassin comes up and Decapitates the Mage but then gets taunted onto the Paladin. The mage may still die but if he doesn't then the Assassin is dealing with the Paladin instead and can't finish the job.</P> <P>4) Give us back our nuke on the run. This ability was in no way overpowered and should never have been taken away. Warriors and Brawlers have a taunt that interrupts, is instant cast, ranged, and can even be used while stunned. All of these classes also get ranged auto attack which is immensely important in PvP when you're trying to chase down a runner. The Grizzfazzle bow does quite a lot of damage just from ranged auto attack; more than Decree/Brimstone.</P> <P>5) Detect Evil. This is something that Paladins have had in many games throughout the genre. I'm thinking it could be like the racial vision types except it wouldn't alter anything visually. You'd just get a red glowing outline on any Freeporter that you see whether they're in stealth, invis, or just standing around. I'm thinking it would look like players look when stealthed except in red instead of gray. It could be on a 1 minute recast timer with a duration of maybe 20 seconds, or a 5 minute recast with duration 1 minute. This would give Paladins some kind of a use and a defense when out alone and actually fits quite well with the class. Obviously shadowknights would likewise get a Detect Good ability. Correct me if I'm wrong but don't templars get this as a fun spell? Does anyone know if it works in PvP? Templars are more rare than spongy loam on Venekor or I'd ask one myself. I think this would fall under the "PvP Only" category as it wouldn't affect anything in PvE but would be class defining in PvP.</P> <P>Notice I'm not asking for any extra damage as I don't feel that's what Paladins do. I think we could use a little bump in potency but these issues are far more glaring and preventing the class from performing as well as it should against other classes or when compared to peer classes.</P> <P> </P> <P>EDIT: The reason Doom Judgement is so powerful is because it removes beneficial buffs from targets. I try to use it when my enemies are bunched up at the beginning of the fight to remove as many of their buffs as I can. This can and does turn the tide of a fight because missing some crucial buffs can be crippling to a group. I have mine Adept III and it removes 112 levels of buffs (I think).</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Vathranen on <span class=date_text>07-30-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:31 AM</span>

[Kaleyen]

Vath, from your 4a.) thingNO FREAKIN kidding.  I got HT'd for over 6k last night from a 70th SK (I'm 63 atm), my "Lay Hands" at this level (I think it was 62 was the new form?) at Master I form only does a little over 4k...what's up with that?<div></div>

[Vathranen]

The lay on hands you have at 62 is the best you'll get. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[ChopStix]

<P>i see you guys are starting to see what i'm talking about...</P> <P> </P> <P>i have a 69 paladin, and all we can do in pvp is take the damage, and that is it, just absorb all the damage then die!!!</P> <P> </P> <P>and SOE doesnt give a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]!! they just want more of your money..</P><p>Message Edited by ChopStix on <span class=date_text>07-31-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:40 PM</span>

[Vathranen]

<P>Sadly I think Paladin is very low on the list of PvP things to be looked at. Mostly because there are so few of us. On Venekor I know of 3 level 70 Paladins - Vysha, Midnights, and Balios. I see Balios still posts here but I haven't seen Vysha out and about for a very long time and as far as I know Midnights quit (He made a Ranger alt, not sure if he's still around in that form). Then there's me, Rhone, 4th down. Then on Vox I see you guys have one 70 Paladin.</P> <P>No I don't see us getting any attention anytime soon.</P>

[Magnis]

Well, I've only  taken my pally as far as 19, with masterCrafted everything, and masters and adeptIIIs  they do really good, IMO... but dont know if its the same in hier levels.:smileyindifferent:

[lonethius]

<div></div>Chopstix, sorry to break it to you buddy, but paladin is THE STRONGEST pvp plate tank. I play one on nagafen. I can 1v1 any other plate class and win. even SKs. we are the only class who does a good amount of damage with divine, therefore no one focuses on buffing it up, so our spells/CAs hit for a lot. also although our healing takes a lot of mana it is brutal against other tanks. There are tanks out there who can beat me, but it is due to them knowing their class well and normally myself effing up <span>:smileytongue: SKs might do a little more damage with their combat arts/spells, but that is the way it is ment to be. Their mana pool draws from STR and INT, which provides their spells with extra damage. However, our mana pool draws from STR and WIS, which gives us significantly more resists. only thing that i wish i had that an SK has is evac (which makes zero or maybe even negative sense)In groups and raid PVP we are also highly strong. we can taunt with the best of them and the extra group healing is KEY, also brimstone wrecks people. we actually have one of the best pvp spells in the game as well. Sigil of heroism. Castigate also allows paladins to do massive amounts of damage and cure which other tanks cant do. I also prefer LOH to HT any day. I'd rather fully heal my group's mage/healer from red than knock one of theirs down to half health. All of you who feel palis are [Removed for Content] in pvp I felt the same was as you for a long time. But now I feel like if you learn your class, get good gear, and have the right AAs you can be amazing in pvp. </span><div></div><p>Message Edited by lonethius on <span class=date_text>08-01-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:18 PM</span>

[Turb]

Hi,In answer to the original question on stats, I don't have any fabled gear (yet!) and am also L67.With def stance on I have 6200hp, around 3900 mit (55.5% vs L67), 50.5% avoid, with STR and STA over 300 and WIS around 370. A ranged item with +mit helps, there's a few crafted ones that have that.For the avoid, I recently got Grizzlefazzle's shield and that boosted me very nicely as it has a great rating and +6 DEF and +5 parry. I think I gained like 5% avoid over the crimson rock targe I had before that.I have cuirass of protection too. A good leg armour is empowered scaleguard greaves at 403 + 120 vs all physical, so 523 in all, as well as +20 str/sta. The chitin rings are nice +mit too.Good luck <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Doylen]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ChopStix wrote:<BR> <DIV>I  or being the shadowknight can evac i think we should get one also being we're suppose to be somewhat of a mirror class of the sk... </DIV> <DIV><BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I guess you didn't keep in mind that  we can heal, SK's can't.</P> <P>We can Rez, SK's can't</P> <P>We have a ward against damage, SK's has a ward that gives health</P> <P>We have a lay hands, SK's has a Harm Touch</P> <P><BR>Personally I think it'd be pretty boring if we were a mirror class to the SK. and it wouldn't be much of a point having both...</P>

[Kaleyen]

<div><blockquote><hr>Vathranen wrote:<div></div> <p>Sadly I think Paladin is very low on the list of PvP things to be looked at. Mostly because there are so few of us. On Venekor I know of 3 level 70 Paladins - Vysha, Midnights, and Balios. I see Balios still posts here but I haven't seen Vysha out and about for a very long time and as far as I know Midnights quit (He made a Ranger alt, not sure if he's still around in that form). Then there's me, Rhone, 4th down. Then on Vox I see you guys have one 70 Paladin.</p> <p>No I don't see us getting any attention anytime soon.</p><hr></blockquote>Well there's Atuc at 66, then myself at 64 (almost 65) for Pallys on Vene</div>

[enjoilab]

<P>seriously at lvl 70 pvp gets alot easier with nicer resist gear, i kill lvl 70 SKs quickly if they dont evac, work on resists and you are a god in pvp, the divine aura i just respeced to gives me time when dispatch is on me to cure it with castigate.</P> <P>ive killed some necros before if i put on my resist gear and throw on my 2 hander, imo divine aura is the best pvp aa you can possibly get</P> <P>on a lighter note its kinda funny when a raiding t7 sk hts you for only 1.8k and you dont even have to cast lohs to kill him</P> <P> </P> <P>but for god sake if you are a pvp pally GET RESISTS!!!!!!! they will save your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] sooo much!!!!</P>

[holypaladin28]

<DIV>YAH PALLY POWER.  we rock heals wards damage rez MIT avoid RESIST we get the best of everything </DIV>

[Kaleyen]

I'm having a hard time balancing my resists vs my health.  Cold and Heat seem to be my weakpoints and everytime I switch out a piece of armor for more resists I lose about 75-100HP.<div></div>

[Vathranen]

I wouldn't worry too much about cold/heat Liluk. On our server there's only two wizards that I know of - Riddicks and Gromph. Otherwise it's all poison & disease.

[Kaleyen]

<div><blockquote><hr>Vathranen wrote:<div></div>I wouldn't worry too much about cold/heat Liluk. On our server there's only two wizards that I know of - Riddicks and Gromph. Otherwise it's all poison & disease.<hr></blockquote>2 Wizzys on our side or theirs?  I know that we have 1 70 Wizzy (Mags) might have another, but usually the Freepers have 3x the amounts we do.  My Mental/Magic/Divine/Poison are my highest, my disease is not bad but dang my cold/heat hit below 2k when I'm self buffed.  And it's not like I'm in crappy gear either.  My armor and weapons are all T7, only my helm and forearms are the T7 mastercrafted (I have a shiny Pally helm in my bags for when I get 67).  I didn't invest in the T7 mastercrafted jewelry because I bought the T6 mastercrafted and for the price I don't think it's worth it.  I did get the dark chitin ring from the den, so that's my only T7 jewelery, I would like to get the light chitin to go with that.  But if I get that I'll lose 18STA + 40HP which will bring me down to the 6k hp unbuffed mark.To give you an idea at 64/65 I was at 6.5/6.6k HP self buffed I'm now 66 and I'm in the 6.2/6.3k unbuffed HP after getting dropped T7 armor that has more resists then stamina/hp.</div>

[Vathranen]

Two wizards on their side. You don't have to worry about Qeynos wizards - they aren't going to be launching ice nova at you <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Rocksthemic]

Have a question for you PvP'ers out there. Once you are exile, can you group with anyone else that is exiled without giving up your class? Like could you potentially have an exiled Paladin and an Exiled SK in the same group? Thundaarr Unrest <Nightcap> <div></div>

[Vathranen]

<P>Yeah that's correct. Keep in mind that if you're <EM>not</EM> grouped then it's open season for PvP - exiles can fight each other too.</P>

[falconx3]

I dinged 70 pally the other day on Venekor. So I guess I can speak a bit on the Pvp Aspect. I can effectively solo necros. Hands down when they were orange I was killing them and now even reliced out necros I can win against. Yes we are not the most effective class for solo PvP but as stated before divine resists are overlooked. Toss out that group taunt on anyone (mines master 2) take out 1k of the targets divine resits (or encounter) and boom you gave yourself a chance at winning. The biggest thing I see in pally PvP is the spamming of our skills. Waste of effort really, the key is to space out our kicks and interupts and wait for the right time. We have a decent selection of stuns and interupts, why not use them. Now I dont find a ton of solo fights, most of the times ifa scout doesnt get a good opening shot on me they evac, so I cant tell. Groups is where I feel at home. I dont try to do damage that isnt my job. I spam taunts (maybe turning on consecrate) and heal/ward myself and the group to help the healers(this is assuming it is a fair fight). Let the DPS classes kill. Its been stated before we are a tank with heals. We gave up DPS for the ability to heal. Does it suck to not be able to kill all that well solo? Yes, so if you dont like it betray or reroll. My group since I was a tiny pally has consisted of normally 2 pallies, have we proved the theory(well some people say this at least) that pallies are useless for PvP. Yes Liluk and I have. Its always fun being that helpless pally in the freeps eyes and then being able to spank them. <div></div>

[Vathranen]

<P>Well grats Atuc. It is good that most Paladins enjoy their class in PvP. It can be an effective class, I've never denied that. But I stand by my original claim that any other class could contribute more to a group in PvP except maybe an Illusionist.</P> <P>That said, my opinion means nothing since I've given up. EQ2 holds no more surprises for me so it's back to waiting for the next big thing.</P>

[Kaleyen]

<div><blockquote><hr>FalconX333 wrote: My group since I was a tiny pally has consisted of normally 2 pallies, have we proved the theory(well some people say this at least) that pallies are useless for PvP. Yes Liluk and I have. Its always fun being that helpless pally in the freeps eyes and then being able to spank them. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Haha, he speaks the truth, the two pally group in PvP and PvE rocks!</div>

[lavasoul]

<P>I wouldn't say the class is weak. Sure we get interrupted a lot and I would love to see our spells and heal have shorter cast time. It's all in the gear and how you play the crusader class. I used to play on a blue server then later play on a pvp server and loving it. Our class isn't played by many cause our damage output doesn't look that attractive for pvp but that doesn't mean we suck. </P> <P>Crusaders is one of the best tanks to have in a group or even to solo for that matter. A lot may see crusader as a [Removed for Content] tank but I'll go ahead and let them think that way. You won't know if a class is good until you can play it well. I got friends that jumps from one class to another cause people say that certain class is good. </P>

[ChopStix]

<P>as youve seen my other posts, i've rolled a beserker, lvl 13 at the moment....  wish i would have chose a beserker to begin with... i can honetly say after rolling a beserker the paladin class is weak.</P> <P> </P> <P> i can already tell the difference in dps.. rolling through even conned monsters and up too 2 lvls higher than me... and this beserker isnt even tweaked out with gear yet... cant wait to get him in some steel armor and tweaked out jewelry and a good 1 hander... as far as AA points,compared to a paladin's, its a wash, the beserkers aa's are far better than a paladins....</P> <P> </P> <P>in regards to this post, you can say what you want about paladins being good or bad, if you like them or not..  i now know the difference, i'll still play my paladin, unless someone wants to buy him :] but for now the lvl 13 beserker is my main, and the lvl 70 pally is my alt... i wanted dps, and now i'm getting it, by switching to a beserker...</P> <P> </P> <P>as far as comparing the two class's, i will say this, the paladin class needs a SEVERE makeover, in dps and also AA choices!  its that simple!!</P>

[Vathranen]

<DIV>I did the same thing about a year ago ChopS. I got my zerker up to 44 and it's a completely different class. The DPS of the zerker is pretty high. It's not quite what a monk's DPS is, but if the zerker is tanking he'll come out on top pretty often through riposting - that's the zerker specialty. However, I didn't play a zerker on PvP. I tried a guardian for a short time and I saw what the Paladin is missing - an auto taunt like the other fighters have that works in PvP. That's a game breaker for me as a Paladin. If our Amends did something in PvP that would go a long way toward fixing the class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The problem with comparing zerker and Paladin is that it's apples and oranges. Paladin is a hybrid healer class, so you're going to lose out somewhere. In this case Paladins lose out on DPS. They balance out because the Paladin can outlast about anything while the zerker or monk can beat something down before it beats them down.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What I think you'll enjoy most is your ability to shrug off tons of damage with your mitigation buffs, interrupt on taunt, ranged auto attack, auto-taunt when hit, not being interrupted yourself (no spells), and using combat arts while moving. These are the things that I found as glaring flaws in the crusader class.</DIV>

[ChopStix]

funny you should mention the attacks while on the move, that is the very first thing i noticed, and liked very much..  i wish i woulda rolled a zerker from the get go, believe it suits me better for my style of play.. i'm a little too aggresive for a paladin i think...   as i've played a paladin for a while, the style of play i accepted was to try to keep some range at first, then go in too attack, which works very well..  but the beserkers mitigation buffs are just simply awesome, and the buckler aa line is very impressive..

[Vathranen]

Be sure to pull with your ranged auto attack to get your skill up. From what I understand the Grizzfazzle bow on ranged auto attack does around 1k from a zerker or a guardian. That's more than I can do on the go as a Paladin.

[ChopStix]

<P>haha, i have a bow equipped now, just need a quiver and arrows... and i'm having a blast with tihs lvl 15 serker... one funny thing that happened the other night in the caves..</P> <P> i was lvl 13, and for some reason a lvl 16 asassin come up next to me while i was fighting a nasty gnoll, so i finshed the gnoll, and waited to heal up, looked to make sure he didnt have help while listening to the funny little ratonga laugh, then i laid into him, and smoked him, beat him down, he tried to run and zone under the waterfall, the last thing that happened was i smoked him with my imbued club and its proc went off and he was dead.. i was simply amazed and i dont think a lvl 13 pally could've come close to beating him...</P> <P> </P> <P>dont get me wrong i still love my pally,and what they stand for , i just think they need a severe overhaul and some lovin from soe developers.. thier dps is, well,  just lacking alot... maybe a new spell called crusade or courage added into the mix for some more dps and aggro..and some real aa options that stand out like a couple of the beserker aa lines do..</P>

[holypaladin28]

<DIV>huh i thought i was in the pally forum not the zerker forum.   oh wait i am in a pally forum its chop that is confused (not a mig surprise)  get the hint</DIV>

[ChopStix]

whats a mig suprise?

[OrcSlayer96]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ChopStix wrote:<BR> whats a mig suprise?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Hmmm, a russian pilot joke that is the punchline for?...<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>

[ChopStix]

now that is funny!!!