GU25 change not previously announced

[Leawyn]

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>From GU 25 Notes:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ffcc00>*** Combat ***<BR><BR></FONT></STRONG>- Racial Hide Abilities: Increased stealth duration for up to 30 minutes. Reduced recast timer to 5 minutes.<BR>- Player characters will no longer riposte unless they have initiated combat.<BR><STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000>- Symbols can no longer be used with shield-required attacks for paladins and shadowknights.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Why sneak this change in? This was not a part of the TU notes as far as I can remember, and I just read thru them a couple of days ago. This makes me sad. My normal raid setup of a symbol rather than sheild (i could quickly switch in a sheild if I should need to) is now negated because that takes away the effectiveness of being able to use all my combat arts including ones with my Achievements.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sigh... I hate ninja "fixes"</DIV>

[Wulfborne]

<P>But hey, we can wear 50 bazillion colors of the same model of outfit...</P> <P>~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul</P>

[OrcSlayer96]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Leawyn wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>From GU 25 Notes:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ffcc00>*** Combat ***<BR><BR></FONT></STRONG>- Racial Hide Abilities: Increased stealth duration for up to 30 minutes. Reduced recast timer to 5 minutes.<BR>- Player characters will no longer riposte unless they have initiated combat.<BR><STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000>- Symbols can no longer be used with shield-required attacks for paladins and shadowknights.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Why sneak this change in? This was not a part of the TU notes as far as I can remember, and I just read thru them a couple of days ago. This makes me sad. My normal raid setup of a symbol rather than sheild (i could quickly switch in a sheild if I should need to) is now negated because that takes away the effectiveness of being able to use all my combat arts including ones with my Achievements.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sigh... I hate ninja "fixes"</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Probably some PVP whiner that complained it was unfair that he could be shield slammed by a cobalt tablet or a large tome to the face.  I agree that it was no imbalace to the game to allow us to have this feature, made many of us happy to see the animations when we knowlingly lost our block and stat bonuses.  Would have been nice to change our shield bash to allow for symbols on the description and have it as a distinct option for a crusader.  After all they took our 2 handed power strike attack and allowed it to be used with one handed weapons also.  I liked the idea of shield bashing a undead mob with a holy symbol...<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>

[Mantell]

<P>I can't argue with the change. It's intended so you configure either for tanking or DPS. It was probably a bug that we could use symbols to shield bash. I understand it. </P> <P> </P> <P>I selected my AA lines and selected gear with this in mind though.  It annoys me that I don't find out about it until I'm on a raid with bad guys breathing down my neck and one of my abilities is unavailable.</P> <P> </P> <P>All nerfs should be announced. Ninja nerfs just upset people.</P>

[robusticus]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Leawyn wrote:<div>Why sneak this change in?</div><hr></blockquote>If I'm not mistaken we have here going a tradition where every GU contains some sort of nerf for us, big or small.I <3 tough <3.</div>

[Leawyn]

<blockquote><hr>robusticus wrote:<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Leawyn wrote:<div>Why sneak this change in?</div><hr></blockquote>If I'm not mistaken we have here going a tradition where every GU contains some sort of nerf for us, big or small.I <3 tough <3.</div><hr></blockquote>You're wrong. I am a copious reader of the Test update notes, and the Live... err i mean Game Update notes when they go live. Very rarely do changes go in that weren't noted on the Test notes. And I've never seen it happen for Paladins before. Not to say it hasn't, I haven't always been playing a Paladin so I can't say that, but as far as I remember, it hasn't. All "nerfs" we at least knew about ahead of time.<div></div>

[Wulfborne]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Leawyn wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> robusticus wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Leawyn wrote: <DIV><BR>Why sneak this change in?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>If I'm not mistaken we have here going a tradition where every GU contains some sort of nerf for us, big or small.<BR><BR>I <3 tough <3.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>You're wrong. I am a copious reader of the Test update notes, and the Live... err i mean Game Update notes when they go live. Very rarely do changes go in that weren't noted on the Test notes. And I've never seen it happen for Paladins before. Not to say it hasn't, I haven't always been playing a Paladin so I can't say that, but as far as I remember, it hasn't. All "nerfs" we at least knew about ahead of time.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I think robusticus was saying there is an ongoing tradition for GU's to have paladin nerfs of some kind in them. (I took it as tongue-in-cheek humor). He wasn't saying that there is a tradition of <STRONG>stealth</STRONG> nerfs... just nerfs in general.</P> <P>Maybe I read it wrong tho.. </P> <P>~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul</P>

[OrcSlayer96]

<DIV>Any way you look at it i think it was the wrong thing to do.  We keep hearing that the devs want each class to be unique, and what do they do, they make us the same as the warrior class on our shield bash.  All it would have taken is a change in the shield bash line to say shield or symbol, and Crusaders would have a ability that is unique only to their classes.  Pratical on hard hitting mobs...no, but on vast majority of mobs it would be a CHOICE we have that we no longer have now.  What was done was the EASY fix not neccesary the BEST.  Did it give us a unfair advantage to use a symbol?  No we were nerfing our defense by waiving our block chance, but some of us didnt care, if a mob was hurting us too much we switched to a shield quickly(before post LU24 laggy switching of primary or secondary slot items) and kept on playing.  It would be nice to know why this was unannounced in any form till live hit, and why they just did not change the spell...</DIV>

[Nevar]

Not sure why anyone would go down the Int line and actually use the symbol abilities. The crits are nice thats why im down it. As far as a symbol goes, 2h always for it. Would never put a symbol in my off hand seems kinda pointless so this change should change anything for anybody imo.

[OrcSlayer96]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nevarer wrote:<BR> Not sure why anyone would go down the Int line and actually use the symbol abilities. The crits are nice thats why im down it. As far as a symbol goes, 2h always for it. Would never put a symbol in my off hand seems kinda pointless so this change should change anything for anybody imo.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>With our raid setup sometimes, we find ourselves short on healers and i switch over to the symbol as i am staying back healing mages and firing off ranged spells, with recast reductions kicked in i can keep the dps up on group heals, intercept damage to MT and avoid AOE damage by being at Max Heal distance.  Not something i do all the time but comes in handy to have as a option when we need to stack some healers in multi tank situations.  I also go the symbol route when working on green or grey quests and have my flowing thought gear on instead of drinking for power regen.  If it is a tough raid, i usually have my doomhammer and shield on in defense mode or my doomwing 2 hander with 23% haste.  I just like different looks on my pallie sometime...<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>

[Nevar]

Heh, the symbol thign still sucks, either 2h or sword, I usually stay 2h unless im tankin no aes really do much dmg.

[OrcSlayer96]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nevarer wrote:<BR> Heh, the symbol thign still sucks, either 2h or sword, I usually stay 2h unless im tankin no aes really do much dmg.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Hey Itoock, which claymore option did you go for the shield or the claymore 2 hander?  I have been hearing that the proc on the shield is as rare as mining spongy loam...<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  If that is the case, i think i will lean towards the two hander probably.<BR>

[Wulfborne]

<P>Personally, I took the shield, as I have found better (imo) 2-handers than the claymore, and even without the proc on the shield it was on par with what I was previously using.</P> <P>~Sir Hawke Holyblayde, Hero of Maj'Dul</P>

[Vathranen]

My problem with this change is because I play on PvP server and it was nice to have that Reflect now and then. Absolutely not worth it now.