Chaining Amends

[Baut]

<div>Just curious if anyone has tried chaining amends in a group setting?  I group with another paladin in our guild frequently and have yet to try it, but for example:  If he is MT and I cast amends on someone else, then he casts amends on me, what affect does it have?  Does he get the hate that I get from amending someone else?</div>

[Anariale]

From what Ive tested, only the last hate transfer cast has any affect.  This can be an absolute nightmare since people moving in and out of range might screw it up.Granted, I havent tested this again since LU18 or so.<div></div>

[ArivenGemini]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Anariale wrote:From what Ive tested, only the last hate transfer cast has any affect.  This can be an absolute nightmare since people moving in and out of range might screw it up.Granted, I havent tested this again since LU18 or so.<div></div><hr></blockquote>And the swashy hate transfer doesn't stack with amends as far as I can tell.. from the testing I have done.. if I transfer hate to a pally who has amends on me, neither will work..  havok then reigns <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></div>

[Porky_uk]

<div></div><p>Blind Guardians on Everfrost uses the chained Amends all the time.</p><p>We have no choice, 10% of our player base is a Pally and they are also the highest lvls in guild, next to our many Conjurors <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  All of our MT's are Pally's, with 1 or 2 guards on their way......</p><p>2 Pallys in group - MT amends on 2nd MT (or backup MT) who then puts amends on swashy.  Swashy can then use hate transfer to MT1.</p><p>MT cruises.</p><p>If you have 3 Pally's, make sure the MT has highest lvl Amends and that 3rd pally has lowest.  ie Master, then adept 3 then adept 1/app4 etc</p><p>If not and MT2 had master while MT has Adept3, MT2 will keep getting aggro.</p><p>In raids dual tanking with pally's rocks for memwipe <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  also useful to have 7-9k instant heals</p><p>GorbashBlind GuardiansEverfrost</p>

[TheGreatStoney]

<div>I dont see why you would need to chain amends on people. WIth all master taunts at level 70, and amends on a wizard, no one could rip off me in raids.</div><div> </div><div>Your losing alot of buffs by putting 2 paladins and a swashie in group when you could stick just 1 wizard in there and stick in some healers. The only way you should lose aggro is if one of those dumb scouts uses a combat art that raises there hate position, if they do that i usually just let them die for being stupid  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Sabrekong]

<div></div>Just put Amends on a high DPS class and you're done...no need to "chain" Amends for any reason...I tanked almost all of GoAA the other night, and I had Amends a Warlock...that's all I needed...if you have to chain Amends, then something is wrong with the way you hold aggro...

[Lyrus]

I think the OP was asking "what if" and not saying that he's done it before.<div></div>

[ArivenGemini]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>TheGreatStoney wrote:<div>I dont see why you would need to chain amends on people. WIth all master taunts at level 70, and amends on a wizard, no one could rip off me in raids.</div><div> </div><div>Your losing alot of buffs by putting 2 paladins and a swashie in group when you could stick just 1 wizard in there and stick in some healers. The only way you should lose aggro is if one of those dumb scouts uses a combat art that raises there hate position, if they do that i usually just let them die for being stupid  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><hr></blockquote>Speaking of someone who plays a "dumb scout"...  I dont have a choice unless I want to cut a considerable amount of dps out of what I can do..  90% of my combat arts have debuffs.. one of my (very essential for dps) stances has a hate boost proc.. and both debuffs and hate boosts raise my hate level..And what do you call a scout with no dps or utility since he is limited to autoattack?   simple:  not in the raid.</span><span>This is why swashy has a hate transfer... so that they can offload some of their hate to someone else.. so advocating we dont use or worry about it is pointless.. it is a tool meant to be used.</span><span>Learning other classes and their capabilities is a big benefit towards knowing how to play your OWN class...   but if you dont have the time to learn the other classes, you just have to trust that those who have played them know what they are doing..  especially since "not doing a combat art that raises my hate position" will take my few hundred dps down to about 60.. and then there is no point in having me as opposed to someone with dps or utility instead..Oh wait, should I mention that those selfsame debuffs help keep you alive and help the entire party do more dps, thus taking the mob down faster?  You want a longer, more health and power consuming fight, or do you want it fast with the "dumb scout" passing some hate off to the MT (which also makes HIS job easier)?   To me it is a simple question with a simple answer.. maybe you have a different viewpoint of it all though.</span></div>

[Porky_uk]

<div></div><p>Just a mention - especially for those pointing out that chained amends is not necessary  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I don't think that was the OP's point, but seeing as you brought up the "aggro management" issue I'd like to take you that 1 step further.</p><p>The chaining of amends was not used to keep aggro but to allow the DPS in the raid to be more free flowing.  A good scout will rip aggro away from a pally in a group if he "opens up".  In a raid, aggro needs to be managed throughout.</p><p>All that chaining amemnds does is give you a backup tank should 1 be needed and allow the dps to "flow" a little better  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Give it a try, think big picture and not "can I hold aggro"</p><p>This is of course for us less experienced raiding guys who don't have 14k  HP's when MTing</p><p>GorbashBlind GuardiansEverfrost</p>

[Sabrekong]

<div>And that is why Sigil of Heroism was created....</div>

[Porky_uk]

<div></div><p>Yes, Sigil is very good.  I've got mine at master.  However it only works for your group and not on the person with amends.</p><p>Amends also does not stack with any othe aggro transfer</p>

[Baut]

<div></div><p>Uh...yeah....I know how to play my class.  But as stated, its a 'what if', 'have you ever', 'anyone tried this' post.  I know how to tank just fine, just asking if anyone did it.  Geeeeeesh.</p><p>Thanks to those who actually answered with "I have's" instead of "why the F would you".</p>

[TheGreatStoney]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ariven wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>TheGreatStoney wrote:<div>I dont see why you would need to chain amends on people. WIth all master taunts at level 70, and amends on a wizard, no one could rip off me in raids.</div><div> </div><div>Your losing alot of buffs by putting 2 paladins and a swashie in group when you could stick just 1 wizard in there and stick in some healers. The only way you should lose aggro is if one of those dumb scouts uses a combat art that raises there hate position, if they do that i usually just let them die for being stupid  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><hr></blockquote>Speaking of someone who plays a "dumb scout"...  I dont have a choice unless I want to cut a considerable amount of dps out of what I can do..  90% of my combat arts have debuffs.. one of my (very essential for dps) stances has a hate boost proc.. and both debuffs and hate boosts raise my hate level..And what do you call a scout with no dps or utility since he is limited to autoattack?   simple:  not in the raid.</span><span>This is why swashy has a hate transfer... so that they can offload some of their hate to someone else.. so advocating we dont use or worry about it is pointless.. it is a tool meant to be used.</span><span>Learning other classes and their capabilities is a big benefit towards knowing how to play your OWN class...   but if you dont have the time to learn the other classes, you just have to trust that those who have played them know what they are doing..  especially since "not doing a combat art that raises my hate position" will take my few hundred dps down to about 60.. and then there is no point in having me as opposed to someone with dps or utility instead..Oh wait, should I mention that those selfsame debuffs help keep you alive and help the entire party do more dps, thus taking the mob down faster?  You want a longer, more health and power consuming fight, or do you want it fast with the "dumb scout" passing some hate off to the MT (which also makes HIS job easier)?   To me it is a simple question with a simple answer.. maybe you have a different viewpoint of it all though.</span></div><hr></blockquote><p>That doesnt mean you have to give it to the tank, you can do the same amount of dps if you put it on another class. You dont have to be in the MT group to do debuffs, you dont need to be in the main tank group to use a hate transfer. You give no buffs to the main tank that would be beneficial. If i dont need the extra hate, than i will put in a class that will help me live longer.</p><p>Your not going to rip off me even if your doing 800+ dps, you'll only rip if you use your hate position combat art. If your use your hate position spell you better use your detaunt right after that, or i will let you die. A "Smart Scout" would know when to use there Hate Position Combat Art and when not to use it. You will always do more dps when your alive than dead. A scout that does 800+ dps in the first 30 seconds of a fight and dies half way through it, wont do as much as someone who does 600-700 dps and never dies.</p><p><font color="#ff0000">And what do you call a scout with no dps or utility since he is limited to autoattack?   simple:  not in the raid</font></p><p><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ffffff">What do you call a scout that rips and continouly dies every fight? simple: worthless.  You can take it to the extreme either way. A "Smart Scout" would find a good place in between these two, which is called "Managing your Aggro". You have detaunts to go with your Taunts, use them. There is a swashbuckler in my guild that knows how to manage his aggro, and rarely dies in fights, and yet he does some good dps too. </font></font></p><p>"Dumb Scout" was a reference to those scouts that dont know how to manage their aggro, that end up ripping and dying. Not a reference to all scouts.</p><p><font color="#ff0000"></font> </p>