Opinions please

[Gilthen]

<div></div><div>I have always played a caster, and have decided to try a melee class. I'm a big rper and Paladin has always interested me.. but with all the talk about Berzerkers and Guardians.. I have to get some opinions from those who know.</div><div> </div><div>Soloing is a big thing for me, as my play time is very limited. All I ever read is how Paladins damage output is so low... is it really that bad? I know technically all classes can solo, but with only a few hours a day, and more than likely solo, I don't want to choose a class only to find out that while it "can" solo... I won't hit level 30 for 3 years.</div><div> </div><div>I've played many other MMORPGs, and as much as we'd like to think it wasn't true, there is always a class or two that everyone thinks, "Ugh, I don't want them in the group." Now, I'm not saying this is the case, but thats what I'm wary of.</div><div> </div><div>Basically, any opinions from paladins or about paladins, and I'm interested.</div><div> </div><div>My thanks in advance.</div><p>Message Edited by Gilthenin on <span class="date_text">02-06-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:00 AM</span></p>

[Dwergux]

Pladins are ok at soloing.You will not kill mobs very fast, but you will spent less time working off your debt and running back to the mobs <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />We have slight edge against undead (having 3 skills that do double damage vs. undead) so if you stick to those you will kill slightly faster than living mobs.When soloing use your ward often, look when it wears off and recast (if possible).Use a 2 hander for easier mobs and when fighting tougher opponents try using "Sword and Board".

[Edyil]

<div></div><p>Pally's kill slow.  I mean slooooooow.  Against undead the pace picks up some and can even be enjoyable, but comparatively speaking, its nappy nap time.</p><p>A Pally duoing with any damage class is a beatuiful thing.  Pallys can stay alive, hold aggro and come out of a short heroic battle unscathed.</p><p> </p><p>If you currently play any caster class or scout class, you will think your sword broke and the mob will never die.  So either play the pally because you want to or you regular team needs a good tank.  Don't play one to solo from 0 to 60 in a month...  If you plan to duo, the Pally is a great choice to completement a high damage class.</p><p> </p><p> </p>

[jb-]

Considering we barely take damage and do decent damage, I wouldn't say we're a bad class at soloing. However, if you're wanting to kill stuff quickly I'd choose something else. Personally, I like playing the paladin more than my warlock while soloing, because it's much safer (aka you gradually take damage and can heal/ward through it rather than be one shotted), but that comes with the side-effect of doing lower dps unless you have some good gear and weapons.

[Celedon Silvertree]

What people consider good soloing is different. Some people consider kill speed the key, other people consider not dying to be what makes a good soloer. I am in the second camp but I play a paladin because of that PLUS you are one of the best duo classes around.. PLUS you are an excelent agro handling tank if you do get in a group. And sooner or later you are going to want to do stuff in a group.But if solo only is the what you are after then play a monk or bruiser. You'll get stealth, great kill speed, good durability and fiegn death as your get out of jail free card. Probably the best solo only tank you can get.<div></div>

[Turb]

If you want to solo fast, bruiser is imo the way to go. Good burst frontal dps, self heal, and a good mes. My 45 bruiser rips through solo content quickly.With my paladin, I prefer to rp and quest, but if I'm after xp faster I'll go places with groups of undead so I can use our two AoE attacks and the 'double' damage attacks. Will also be nice to get the Slayer title earlier than most!The bruiser is a much faster killer.I certainly prefer the pally for grouping, though a bruiser is a nice dps/offtank option.

[Kale]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Edyil wrote:<div></div><p>If you currently play any caster class or scout class, you will think your sword broke and the mob will never die. </p><hr></blockquote>Funny, but true!Paladins do kill slow. We're built more for defense than offense (hence our Wards and Heals). A Paladin duoing with a DPS class is fantastic though, I love it. But if you're going to solo more than duo then I'd choose Berserker.</span></div>

[Rhianni]

<div>I solo alot  We do it well enough. I dont know how other classes solo and to be honest I dont care if a ranger can kill a mob in 3 seconds while we take 20.  The speed is enough to keep me entertained. </div>

[Valandur1975]

<div></div>Throughout your 20s, if you spend time killing undead in TS/Nek, it will go by at a reasonable pace; partly because, well, it's still the 20s, but mostly because of the extra damage you dole out versus the undead. In addition, alot of your damage dealing CAs will be acquired in the mid to late 20s. I remember never even starting to "grind" until 25 or 26, after I was done with the AQs. But those 20s went by at a good clip.The 30s start to drag; partly because it's the 30s and XP rates decrease as you rise in levels, but also because many of your combat arts are starting to get old. These won't be replaced until very high 30s/low 40s. I only made it to 43 with my Paladin before i shleved him indefinitely, but  even though I started to get the upgrades to the damage dealing CAs, solo combat was still taking forever.On the other hand, it was never hard to find a place in a group, either as the MT or Off Tank.I recall bringing my Ranger and Paladin up through the 30s concurrently (Ding a level with one, then go play the other one until he dinged that same level). Man oh man, was that like night and day. While it was more "comfortable" and safe to level witht he Pally (especially in the Feerrot, with so many grouped MOBs), it took about 5 times as long to kill anything. <span>:smileysad: It's like you are in a perpetual slap-fight with the critters; neither one being able to hurt the other substancially.</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Valandur1975 on <span class="date_text">02-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:46 AM</span></p>

[Verlaine]

<div></div>Pallies are the gods when it comes to slow killing.  It takes forever.  On the plus side once you kill it you will have a lower down time then most classes.  I will say that my pally does solo better then my assassin, atleast when it comes to groups of mobs. :smileywink:

[Pathin Merrithay]

<div>Specifically, if Solo'ing is what you're looking to do, you'll want to examine the mage classes. Not that Paladin's can't, but it's a huge time commitment, and one is able to take down far less impressive mobs with a Pally then a mage. As a good example, mage classes can solo up to 61-62 ^^^ mobs... The sort of thing that would destroy a melee class.</div>

[Deeply]

<div></div><p>My Pally is 55th and ive pretty much Solo'd from lvl 1.</p><p>True my dmg isnt as good as the *true tanks* ( i hate it when ppl say that im not a true tank ) but I can heal myself , i can heal my group ,Ive got more power than a Zerker or Guardian and i wear the same armour while wielding the same weapons.</p><p>What I found is that soon as I had two AE combat arts I could cast then I upgraded them to adpt 1s and when I could afford it , adpt 3s.</p><p>Then the fun began ,</p><p>I looked till I found a place where groups of up to 4 even con , 2 or more arrow down mobs were and went to work.</p><p>The levels fly by, </p>

[Landaros]

Pretty much agreed.I have a 42 Paladin - mostly soloed.Yep, it takes quite some time to kill mobs, but if you have some main character (and you do) then you can upgrade weapon and skills and your fighter works fine.<div></div>

[Gilthen]

<div></div><p>Thanks for the replies.</p><p>I know that paladin isn't going to be the top of the food chain for DPS. I'm fine with that. If I was just after DPS I would go ranger or summoner but this is my concern...</p><p>My play time is limited. Because my time is limited I am concerned that 3 months from now I'd be kicking myself saying "If I had tried berzerker, I would be twice my level by now."</p><p>Don't get my wrong, I love the idea of a paladin and I don't need to level the fastest... but in EQ1 I tried to play a rogue for rp reasons, stayed with it for the longest time, and painfully discovered that the class was disasterous at solo. I banged my head on it for long enough so that my friends were double my level.</p><p>Hmm... its a hard question to word. I'm wondering about playability. I really don't want to have to ask for help to do things in the game. Now, with that said, grouping is great fun and I enjoy it, but I don't want to have to <em>require</em> a group to play. I've been on just about every MMORPG out there, and have been playing a long time, so I know the theories of class based systems. I know that when playing my wizard I can log on and etiher solo to do some quests or group up to do some, and at the end of my time on I got some accomplished. Like I said, I'm not worried about leveling the fastest... but if I do worry about leveling say, half as fast as I'm used to. Ugh, like I said, hard to word.</p><p>Thanks for you patience while I try to work out my thoughts into actual questions.</p>

[Taall]

<div></div><div></div>I like my paladin's solo rate.  It doesn't seem too horribly slow, and he's durable enough to survive somethings that would make some people blanch.  I think in the end it kind of balances out.  The kill rate might be slower, but I can usually keep going to the next encounter without having to worry as much about downtime.  I'll give up kill rate for not having to sit around regening health or power <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <p>Message Edited by Taallyn on <span class="date_text">02-10-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:45 AM</span></p>

[Gilthen]

<div>Hmm...</div><div> </div><div>As I understand it, Berzerkers do the best damage for a tank class, but have less protection.</div><div>Guardians do less damage but have better protection.</div><div>Paladins are in the middle?</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Anariale]

<div></div><p>Not really...</p><p>Guardians and Paladins have about the same offense/defense overall.  Paladins are a bit more oriented to defend against casters, Guardians vs melee... but in the end, most mobs you fight have a mix of damage, so it balances out.</p><p>Still, NOONE holds aggro like a Paladin.</p><p> </p>

[EvilIguana9]

Nice thing about being a pally is that even if your xp rate while soloing isn't the greatest, you can still take on some pretty powerful encounters and survive.  So there is definitely some flexability there to do heroic quests at a lower level than most other classes could, or to slay named encounters for loot that other people would die to.  Of course a lot depends on your gear, but the capability is definitely there.  And of course Rangers will still solo 5x faster and kill heroic named encounters 3 levels above them while maintaining that their class is totally balanced.  But what are you gonna do?<div></div>

[Gilthen]

<div>Is the damage really that bad? After speaking to some folks in game, I've been given the impression that a paladins purpose is to take hits, not give them.</div><div>Seeing that Berzerker, Guardian, and Paladin are all Fighter classes, I would hope they could at least 'fight' well. I know each has its strengths and weaknesses, but I wouldn't think that one of the weaknesses of a Fighter class would be fighting...</div><div> </div><div>Almost every Paladin in game I've asked about it tells me, "Paladins don't deal damage, we take it well." but, that really doesn't seem to be a good deal, espessially solo...</div><div> </div><div>Another comment I got was, "If you want to be good at combat, play a zerker, pallies are for tanking in groups."</div><div> </div><div>And lastly, "Zerkers are good for combat, guards are good meatshields, and pallies are ok meatshields with good buffs and healing."</div><div> </div><div>I find it confusing to say the least...</div><div>And again, all opinions, advice and comments are appreciated.</div><div> </div>

[Salgo]

<div></div><p>I can only speak from a Guradian point of view but I will tell you that soling as a Guard is painfully slow so you can cross them off your list.</p><p>As for soloing between a Zerker and a Pally...(again I can't speak from experience) but I would suspect that Zerkers have better AE damage and better DPS in general due to their zerker state. Now they don't have a heal but they have a quicker health regen in battle. Drawing from my experience as a Guard, if you can kill the mob quicker you will be better off in general. That is why we (Guards) will Dual Wield in offensive stance instead of going with Sword and Board when soloing. There are times when I need the shield for the extra avoidance but in 95% of the cases...kill it fast and you will be better off efficiency wise.</p><p>Pallys feel free to correct any of the assumption I have made.</p>

[Celedon Silvertree]

<div></div> Kill<span class="845353314-13022006"> </span>speed for a paladin is tolerable, but it's not going to impress anybody but a templar. You can do it and many..  and I mean MANY.. paladins find the solo kill speed fair enough that they play that way regularly. It is a tab better vs. undead too.. which are common.I have a ranger as my alt. His kill speed is incredible but he can't handle tough encounters and groups of foes nearly as well as the paladin. He has to pick his fights a lot more carefully. When solo I still prefer the paladin because he can handle a much wider range of challenges. That is probably the big strength of the solo paladin.. you can pull off some solo stuff that the speed killers never could and you generally only die when you are very unlucky or do something foolish.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Celedon Silvertree on <span class="date_text">02-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:34 AM</span></p>

[Eldin7]

<div></div><p>ultimate pally trio : Paladin Ranger Defiler <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p> </p>

[Landaros]

nah, change out ranger with an assassin<div></div>