Sigil of heroism - bugged and dangerous? Fixed and rocks :); and now broken again :(

[agememn]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div>Edit 2 - OK so its bugged again <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div>Edit - As of LU16 sigil has been fixed and is now a very useful aggro management spell - Pallies rejoice <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I'd also like to thank all those who made constructive posts in this thread and got SOE to fix this spell - nice to see the devs listening to us and acting on our concerns <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Ok so I get this new spell made up at adept III thinking it is going to rock, a nice transfer of grp hate to me, should be ideal for when the shift hits the fan.  So head out  in a guild group to living tombs, set up as normal with amends on our defiler (dont know why but she has a great talent for generating aggro) we go in and start killing with no problems, manage to lock aggro on to me as usual.  After a bit I make a bad pull and aggro 2 grps at once, things are fine till we get a group of wanderers add and then a repop joins in as well.  Things are definately not looking good with aggro jumping all over the place so I hit sigil and resuce and we manage to beat the mobs down.  So we then continue killing but now there is a major problem - I pull as I usually do with ranged nuke, and grp taunt and single taunt as I run back to the grp, only now every single time the mobs ignore me and head straight for our poor defiler.  And when I say straight I mean they overtake me and reach the group before I do, and this is with me using both single and grp taunts as I run em back to grp.  I start thinking what the hell is going on - maybe ward aggro from the defiler is overpowering my taunts - but then I am not even being hit by the mob before it goes for the defiler, still never-the-less I cancel all her buffs and make sure neither of the healers are healing me before I call for assist.  That doesnt do anything they are still running right past me as I taunt away, straight to the healers <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Next option is maybe somehow my buffs have reset or something so I cancel all my maintained spells and recast, still no change.  It wasnt untill we zoned in and out that the aggro management went back to normal. </div><div> </div><div>Hate transfer is by its nature very difficult to measure, but from these observation I can only conclude that sigil somehow overwrote amends and effectively cancelled it, and somehow put a hate modifier onto the target of amends.  I make these comments to highlight that I believe something is seriously wrong with this spell and I hope its get fixed.  From the description it should be a very useful asset; as it is now I think it is more trouble than its worth and that I have wasted a pearl <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div>PS just to note that I dont have problems holding aggro in a group, I know what I am doing and can lock down aggro on to me in vitrually every situation except when I use sigil. </div><div> </div><div>Krussh</div><div>55 pally/55 alchy</div><p>Message Edited by agememnon on <span class="date_text">11-10-2005</span><span class="time_text">10:53 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by agememnon on <span class="date_text">11-10-2005</span><span class="time_text">10:55 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by agememnon on <span class="date_text">01-19-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:34 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by agememnon on <span class="date_text">01-19-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:41 AM</span></p>

[WAPCE]

Yup.<BR><BR> <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=10&message.id=16544" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=10&message.id=16544</a><BR><BR> <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=10&message.id=16919#M16919" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=10&message.id=16919#M16919</A><BR><BR> <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=10&message.id=17405#M17405" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=10&message.id=17405#M17405</a>

[djhbeek]

pm'd for sticky, so that every pally knows about this ... we'll see how they take stickying info about bugs ... this spell is so broken that everyone should know ... <div></div>

[WAPCE]

<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Mgunner]

<P>There's no question it's bugged. I have a similar experience.</P> <P>Out killing Giants in PoF with our level 59 wizard, me being 54. Cast Amends on the wizard for a guaranted lock on agro. Amends III gives 41% hate to me. I'm not losing agro ever. I don't even have to taunt with all the agro the wizzy is giving me.</P> <P>Cast one Sigil when we get a second group by accident and come out ok but I never had control of agro again. The wizzy would take it, then the ranger, and back to me to the healer once.  Agro would ping pong left and right. Recast Amends on the wizard, and bingo, no problems again. I will tell my wizard to go all out with the DPS and not worry about agro.  So now, I have a macro, "Casting Sigil, watch your agro until after the fight." which would be an appropriate title to this thread as well.</P> <P>SOE can not tell me there isn't a problem with it. The fact that I didn't see any update notes in LU15 discourages me. I want some acknowledgement on this issue at the very least. Here's an idea, since every hate generating class needs to know about this, post this in all the class specific boards. They need to know. Wish I could, but I'm at work on a short break.</P>

[WAPCE]

I see this is stickied now. *thumbs up* How about a response of some sort? Should people continue to /bug it and provide as much information as they can? Are we imagining the problem? (I'm pretty sure we're not.)

[Rochir]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> WAPCE wrote:<BR>I see this is stickied now. *thumbs up* How about a response of some sort? Should people continue to /bug it and provide as much information as they can? Are we imagining the problem? (I'm pretty sure we're not.)<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I have the A3 version of Sigil.   I am afraid to use it.   It is not even in my hotbar <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <P></P>

[WAPCE]

I keep it in a hotbar, but only use it under a few circumstances. I find it preferable to Amends if I'm in a group with myself, one healer, and 4 wizards/warlocks/rangers/rogues. I'm sure it's not supposed to be an either-or ability with Amends, though.

[KraftMacaro]

<DIV>I am glad to see others are [Removed for Content] about this [Removed for Content] spell. A waste of a vanadium. I do fine most of the time but have issues with the ping pong thing at times. Some of the problem is the nuke happy casters but you would think with 32% group transfer you would never lose aggro. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SOE fix the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] spell! Many dying casters who get debt would appreciate it. I frankly just tell them it's up to them to manage their aggro and if they die they die. :smileytongue:  </DIV>

[Cidal]

They should just change the name of it to "Marked for Death" and not worry about fixing it.  Then, anytime you get stuck in a group with some twit that keeps aggroing additional mobs or winning every loot, you can just cast it on him and watch him burn down, [Removed for Content].

[Oakbr]

I have not even bothered to buy this spell yet, based on the info I've read here.  Saw it on the broker (najena) the other day priced over 1 plat for Adept 1, and wasn't even tempted.  I do have a vandium sitting in the bank, but that is prolly going to my Warlock alt for his main single nuke upgrade at 51.

[daymoore21]

Is Sigil of Heroism supose to stack with Amends so: Amends Master 1 on warlock 47% Sigil of Heroism Adept 3 on grp 32% = 79% total aggro xfer from warlock? <div></div>

[Cidal]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> daymoore21 wrote:<BR>Is Sigil of Heroism supose to stack with Amends so:<BR><BR>Amends Master 1 on warlock 47%<BR>Sigil of Heroism Adept 3 on grp 32%<BR>= 79% total aggro xfer from warlock?<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>NO.</P> <P>Ameds Master 1 on Warlock = 47% hate gained for Pally from Warlock</P> <P>then, suddenly, you are mob jumped by adds like crazy, so in a desperate attempt to regain control you cast Sigil of Heroism...  2 things have been proven to happen, in succession:</P> <P>     1.  You will, or should gain hate of all targeted encounters</P> <P>     2.  Each and every following mob will directly aggro to the person you had last cast Amends upon, in this case being the Warlock.  And sometimes they really stick, takes a heck of a lot to pull them off of him.</P> <P>So, IMO, you can say it stacks, but instead of given 79% to the pally, as I think it was intended (with SOE you never know), it seems as if the Warlock gets the new 79%.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[daymoore21]

I am sorry , I guess my question is when they fix Sigil of heroism WILL it stack with Amends. Thanks also  should I wait and see if it does or spend a rare on it? <div></div>

[djhbeek]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>daymoore21 wrote:I am sorry , I guess my question is when they fix Sigil of heroism WILL it stack with Amends. Thanks also  should I wait and see if it does or spend a rare on it? <div></div><hr></blockquote>my take on the correct way it should work is that the highest hate steal on a target at any given time should be the one that is used.  i doubt they'll make it stack, but Amends should pick up where it left off.  i personally don't think the hate steal gets xfer'd to the warlock.  i think what happens is that the warlock is used to running at 60% of his own hate.  once sigil is cast and ends, he's now back to 100% hate until you recast amends ... unless he knows this (and there's no reason he would) and starts casting less, he's generating almost twice as much agro as before.  don't even bother trying to pull off of him until you recast amends. oh, and far as the rare goes ... yes, it's worth having, but only if you have alot of rares for adept3s ... i wouldn't put it in my top 5 spells to upgrade, but it's nice to have the option to use it if you are willing to learn what's bugged about it, and how you can deal with it.</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by djhbeek on <span class=date_text>11-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:00 AM</span>

[daymoore21]

<div></div><a href="../view_profile?user.id=10891" target="top"><span>djhbeek</span></a> Interesting comment, In your opinion then what would be better (top5) Adept 3 spells to have. I just assumed that any aggro spell would be at the top of the list.<div></div>

[djhbeek]

well ... the theory holds (agro spells) ... but Sigil is bugged, so i really hate using it ... you really can't use it effectively unless you feel like recasting Amends mid-fight. Interestingly, we don't get alot of agro spells in T5. So for the top 5 (assuming T5): Stance: Faithful Benediction (5<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - Def. Stance Consecrate (55) - AE DOT - great for agro Clarion Cry (59) - Taunt. Righteous Dash (55) - Taunt Demonstration of Devotion (54) - cause it's just so useful<div></div>

[RockstR2]

I was looking through the test server update notes and as of now it looks like they aren't going to fix SoH in LU16 :smileysad:  The rest of the LU looks cool though, although the only part which I really care about since I've done all the heritages will be the new SOGA models.

[Deevaun]

<p>Message Edited by Deevaun on <span class=date_text>11-02-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:37 PM</span>

[Deevaun]

<P>Cidal you posted that the Amend a nd Sigil how they worked together was something along the lines of   1.  You will, or should gain hate of all targeted encounters</P> <P>     2.  Each and every following mob will directly aggro to the person you had last cast Amends upon, in this case being the Warlock.  And sometimes they really stick, takes a heck of a lot to pull them off of him.</P> <P>however the description put down on the website is that</P> <P>Siphons some of the hate generated towards enemies of the group to the paladin instead for a short duration.</P> <P>No where in this description does it say that the it transfers any of the hate to the person you put Amend on.  They do nto work together in such a way.</P> <P>However what you are talking about is what I have experienced a nd this is my thoughts on it.</P> <P>You use Amend , for me at adept 3 it transfers 41% of an individuals hate, say for instance the warlock.  Well so you fight a mob and the warlock is able to blast away, this is fine and dandy.  however once you use Sigil of heroism, at adept 3, it transfers around 32% hate from all group members to you, so you are fine for the 15 seconds that its activated.  Once its gone however, my theory is that Amend is now bugged and is only absorbing 32% hate from the warlock instead of the original 41% hate so allowing the warlock to gain agro a little easier.</P> <P>Now still you would think that with that transfer plus your hate that it is ok.  This is where my next theory comes in.  The description when examining the ability in game describes it as absorbing 32% of group members current (AE) threat.  So my questio is, is this area of effect threat or is this group members around you?  Cause this would make sense why we are loosing agro so much because now the only threat you are receiving once Amend is bugged is 32% of AE attacks, not including all those hard slames.  Therefore you have a real hard time holding agro.  Cause our main agro ability is BUGGED : 0  </P> <P>Just my thoughts</P> <P> </P> <P>Deevaun Reenao Holy Paladin of Karana, Befallen, Apocalypse</P>

[Cidal]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Deevaun wrote:<BR> <P>Cidal you posted that the Amend a nd Sigil how they worked together was something along the lines of   1.  You will, or should gain hate of all targeted encounters</P> <P>    2.  Each and every following mob will directly aggro to the person you had last cast Amends upon, in this case being the Warlock.  And sometimes they really stick, takes a heck of a lot to pull them off of him.</P> <P>however the description put down on the website is that</P> <P>Siphons some of the hate generated towards enemies of the group to the paladin instead for a short duration.</P> <P>No where in this description does it say that the it transfers any of the hate to the person you put Amend on.  They do nto work together in such a way.</P> <P>However what you are talking about is what I have experienced a nd this is my thoughts on it.</P> <P>You use Amend , for me at adept 3 it transfers 41% of an individuals hate, say for instance the warlock.  Well so you fight a mob and the warlock is able to blast away, this is fine and dandy.  however once you use Sigil of heroism, at adept 3, it transfers around 32% hate from all group members to you, so you are fine for the 15 seconds that its activated.  Once its gone however, my theory is that Amend is now bugged and is only absorbing 32% hate from the warlock instead of the original 41% hate so allowing the warlock to gain agro a little easier.</P> <P>Now still you would think that with that transfer plus your hate that it is ok.  This is where my next theory comes in.  The description when examining the ability in game describes it as absorbing 32% of group members current (AE) threat.  So my questio is, is this area of effect threat or is this group members around you?  Cause this would make sense why we are loosing agro so much because now the only threat you are receiving once Amend is bugged is 32% of AE attacks, not including all those hard slames.  Therefore you have a real hard time holding agro.  Cause our main agro ability is BUGGED : 0 </P> <P>Just my thoughts</P> <P> </P> <P>Deevaun Reenao Holy Paladin of Karana, Befallen, Apocalypse</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I know what the description says, and I know what it is supposed to do... however, once the Sigil effect is gone, each and every following mob aggroes directly to whomever I had casted Amends on last.  And even canceling and recasting amends has failed to solve the problem.  Even if I pull the mob hit it first, it runs right by me and hits my "Amended" group member. </P> <P>Good news though, as of LU16b on test, they claim to have fixed it.  We shall see.</P>

[Anzak]

Anyone test this out yet?  Is Sigil fixed or still bugged? <div></div>

[agememn]

<P>Played with it a bit last night and it looks like its fixed to me.  There were certainally none of the buggy aggro issues previously noticed evident last night.  It looks like this may be one hell of a great spell now - grouped with a ranger, an assassin and a wizzy, redemption on the wizzie, then I triggered sigil and told them to go nuts - aggro never shifted off me, even when the assassin used assassinate <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Pulled a few more mobs to see how aggro was after sigil wore off and it was working fine for me.  </P> <P>only very limited testing but it looks good so far <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Krussh</P>

[MeridianR]

Did some limited testing last night as well, and it seems to work as intended now. <div></div>

[CycoDelic]

<DIV>Seems to be working great now. Did Poets last night and intentionally laid off a few taunts on some larger mass pulls then lit it off to test it out... worked like a charm.</DIV>

[WAPCE]

This is broken, again. Please /bug it.

[Dujoaki]

did this stupid thing ever get fixed after they broke it again?<div></div>

[Jonaroth]

it is broken atm, dont use itsucks cause i didnt figure that out till after i bought the master of it :-<div></div>

[dubbs]

<div></div>As a work-around, would it be possible to quickly cancel amends, and then cast sigil? and then after sigil is gone, recast amends, or would amends still be bugged?  i know it's ghetto, but would it conceivably work?

[agememn]

<div></div><div>Appears broken to me again and whilst switching amends on and off may work, its not really practical imo - be nice if they could just fix it again...</div><div> </div><div>Krussh</div><div>60pally/alchy</div><div>Dark Children of Lucan</div><div>Faydark</div>

[Jonaroth]

<span><blockquote><hr>dubbs wrote:<div></div>As a work-around, would it be possible to quickly cancel amends, and then cast sigil? and then after sigil is gone, recast amends, or would amends still be bugged?  i know it's ghetto, but would it conceivably work?<hr></blockquote>yeah that works but when your amends target is a caster that is like 50 meters from you in a raid, and amends targets have to be like 5 meters from you, you cant reposition yourself to bring a raid mob to a caster to re-amends during raid :-</span><div></div>

[dubbs]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Jonaroth wrote:<span>yeah that works but when your amends target is a caster that is like 50 meters from you in a raid, and amends targets have to be like 5 meters from you, you cant reposition yourself to bring a raid mob to a caster to re-amends during raid :-</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>Thanks for the info.  Hadn't thought of the range issue.  I knew my idea was cumbersom at best, definetely would be better if they would fix it.

[Traygar]

<div>If you are the MA or Off tank it is possible to recast as the adds rarely have aoe so you can pull it closer to the casters, but it is a total PITA.  Other problem is that iif you are MA everyone is targetting through you so you have to be quick on the retarget, cast, and targetting mob again.  Again a ridiculous expectation if this is by design.</div><div> </div><div>Honestly I have tanked the T6 Epic X4s with rangers and conj go all out (dps parsed in the 800s) without losing agro (did have coercer in group but our dps has to hold back with same configuration and our Raid guard MT).  That is not a problem with single mobs.  Sigil is huge in keeping agro on the mobs that have multiple targets though.  If dps starts to pour it on with aoe type attacks agro is all over the place.</div><div> </div><div>Traygar</div><div>Lvl 60 Paladin</div><div>Everfrost Server - Vi Et Armis</div>

[Dwergux]

Has SOE acknowledged this as a bug?I hope they did, because it's annoying that of our 3 ancient teachings only one seem te be worthwile, the others are near useless or bugged.

[Jonaroth]

expansion has been out for what, 5 months or so and 2/3 of our ancient spells still dont work.. /sigh<div></div>

[mortem]

<span><blockquote><hr>Jonaroth wrote:expansion has been out for what, 5 months or so and 2/3 of our ancient spells still dont work.. /sigh<div></div><hr></blockquote>Well they work but that same 2/3 really sucks!  I only use sigil if i get desperate cause that person that my 41%<span>:smileysad:</span> master amends is on isn't generating enough hate for me to stay above with the other dps on the hate list (crazy brigand usually). When sigil is used, I usually recast amends almost immediatly tunneling through the mob.  This spell plus divine favor should be rolled into one and something that is actually useful should be given to us at 58. something like superior undead strike that does like 10k dmg every 15 mins or some cool lifetap type spell.</span><div></div>

[Brigh]

Should I just ignore getting an upgrade to this spell if it is bugged then?I have been getting rares and skipping over having them made for sigil ad3.

[Jonaroth]

<div></div><div>lol might as well.. i bet anything it wont get fixed in the next 2 weeks, and soon expansion to lvl 70 will come out and the spell will be replaced...</div><p>Message Edited by Jonaroth on <span class="date_text">01-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:19 AM</span></p>

[Gatts]

<div>wow i didnt know about this bug, so this is the reason why our healer kept getting so much hate in roost today. if i would of known i wouldnt of used sigil.</div>

[TrekkerSnake]

<div></div>Has anyone herd. Are they EVER going to fix this bug?

[Jonaroth]

I've reported it many times but havnt heard anything about it getting fixed.6 months now and they still havnt fixed it :-same as our other ancient spell (lvl 58 one), cant even remember its name because its been broken for so long and un used...<div></div>

[Sinvaryen_1]

Will be fixed with LU20/KoS release.<div></div>

[EvilIguana9]

LU20 on test has it marked as being fixed again, horray!<div></div>