Oath Strike spell line

[githnaur]

<div></div>With the double refresh placed on the "oath strike" line, one change i would really like to see is the initial damage and tick time reduced to what it was before.  Of course, at a push i'd love to see the refresh back down to 30 seconds instead of 60 too - but /shrug. Aside of "refusal of grace" (which is also on a 60 second timer) we lack a real fast acting DPS ability.  Whilst i accept the reduction in overall damage for the reduced power cost and the 60 second refresh, if the initial high damage and 3 ticks for the DoT could be brought back it would bring this favoured ability back into real usefulness.  Why? Since the LU13 changes, this line of spells has: Had it's re-use time increased by 100% Had it's duration for inflicted damage increased by 400% Had it's damage lowered but also its power cost lowered - this is balanced imo so no probs there. If the RoG line gets resisted we really lack any other "fast takedown" ability and I feel we already take enough punishment and interrupts from a mob without having the agony extended by 18 seconds.  Overall our prolonged DPS will remain the same, granted our burst DPS will increase, but this may help a little with our agro issues and in my mind push back up the usefullnes of what was one of our defining CAs.  With the insanely high amount of mobs that stun & stifle these days, for 5+ seconds with stacking effects, I don't think this is too overboard a request.  At least, I hope it isn't. Any opinions on this from the pally community? <b>*Edit:  Please assume I understand how to play the class. e.g. use the stuns we have, debuff mobs, taunt, share armour when not the MT, use the agro syphon spells, use intercept, understand how a heal works, a ward, a buff, have MT'd in xp groups, have taken part in raids etc.  This is not a request for assistance in playing the class.  Thanks <span>:smileywink:</span></b> <div></div><p>Message Edited by githnaur on <span class=date_text>10-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:29 PM</span>

[Nevar]

<P>Seems to me that all paladins do nothing but complain about our class. I honestly dont see anything wrong with us. I do amazing dps, I guess cause I know how to play my class. The spells are fine the way they are. You just have to know how to use everything you have instead of waiting on 1 or 2 abilities. Consecrated aura is great dps. Refusal of faith does around 1200 for me. Its fine with 60 sec timer. I think im more powerful now then before revamp. Did zek and I almost hit 1k dps with all aoes and attacks. But, I can buff up to 350+ str and 200+ int. Im all offensive mainly cause im in a raid guild and I dont tank. Pallys arent real tanks. We are hybrids. Not really good at anything. Not best healers, not best tanks, not best dps. We fall in the middle in all categories. So actually for our class they did right thing in taking those 2 attacks up to higher timers. For the way I play I do good dmg and still rank decently high on parse at 300+ for most part, if its undead I own it and thats all yall need to know <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Yea as far as stuns go this game sucks cause all mobs are berzerkers. Vaquish ftw. We have alot of stuns. USE them. If you dont like stuns keep the mob stunned and it wont be a problem. </P> <P>As far as our defining abilities go, Its LoH. Rez used to be but it sucks now and isnt really useful. The ward is a defining ability for me because it gets good with Demonstration of Devotion. 910 ward rocks. Grp heal is good to, it is a defiite plus to grping but is a major mana eater.</P> <P>Overall I enjoy playing my Paladin though with how I play it I should have went dps. Thats my mindset is to kill asap and I turned my paladin into dps machine. </P>

[djhbeek]

<span><blockquote><hr>Nevarer wrote:<div></div> <p>Seems to me that all paladins do nothing but complain about our class. I honestly dont see anything wrong with us. I do amazing dps, I guess cause I know how to play my class. The spells are fine the way they are. You just have to know how to use everything you have instead of waiting on 1 or 2 abilities. Consecrated aura is great dps. Refusal of faith does around 1200 for me. Its fine with 60 sec timer. I think im more powerful now then before revamp. Did zek and I almost hit 1k dps with all aoes and attacks. But, I can buff up to 350+ str and 200+ int. Im all offensive mainly cause im in a raid guild and I dont tank. Pallys arent real tanks. We are hybrids. Not really good at anything. Not best healers, not best tanks, not best dps. We fall in the middle in all categories. So actually for our class they did right thing in taking those 2 attacks up to higher timers. For the way I play I do good dmg and still rank decently high on parse at 300+ for most part, if its undead I own it and thats all yall need to know <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p> <p>Yea as far as stuns go this game sucks cause all mobs are berzerkers. Vaquish ftw. We have alot of stuns. USE them. If you dont like stuns keep the mob stunned and it wont be a problem. </p> <p>As far as our defining abilities go, Its LoH. Rez used to be but it sucks now and isnt really useful. The ward is a defining ability for me because it gets good with Demonstration of Devotion. 910 ward rocks. Grp heal is good to, it is a defiite plus to grping but is a major mana eater.</p> <p>Overall I enjoy playing my Paladin though with how I play it I should have went dps. Thats my mindset is to kill asap and I turned my paladin into dps machine. </p><hr></blockquote>some good points, some i don't agree with. I don't have major problems with our dps either ... but that may be more of an issue at lower levels.  seems like people want high burst damage tho, which i really don't get, but oh well ... you are right, our AE dps is quite good. The problem with being DPS on a raid is there are classes that do this BETTER than we do (especially single target), so why bring us?  your right ... i don't see us as full-time raid tanks, so what do we do in raids? Stuns are great, they don't work in raids.  Wards rock, they don't work unless you are in the MT group. LoH heals for less than a raid mob hits for in one round ...  the group heal is they only thing i've really liked as far as raid roles go ... I enjoy playing my Pally too, and I like him alot solo and in groups (my only complaint being that darned sigil bug/whatever).  i'm just not that sure that we are any better off in the raiding scene than the rez-bot days ('cept for places like Zek, and maybe a divine/magic caster who does very little melee damage and has no adds ...)</span><div></div>

[Nevar]

<DIV>Taking stuns and stifles off raid mobs is kinda dumb, Go SOE!!!!!. I mean, just think about that for a second. You can impede anything the mob does now. You just have to take the hit upfront and no way to stun or stifle the mob anymore. Maybe up mobs resist towards stun or something but taking em out of raiding isnt very good imo.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yea I find that Sigil and Amends are kinda broke or something atm. I still dont really have aggro issues but I do find that I have to taunt more often. I am speced towards doing more dmg and that helps me hold aggro for the dps I put out. Sigil works great for the 15secs but after that I usually drop aggro and have to regrab it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Our raid role, is to do a little bit of everything lol. We are good in dps grps due to crusade and the grp heal/ward. I can put amends on the big aggro graber and keep his death count down. Which keeps the tank less frustrated . Can still heal MT but no very effectively since Pious got nerf bat. But besides, they take me along for raids so im not complaining even if my role is limited.</DIV>

[djhbeek]

yah ... i just wish the rationale for taking me on raids wasn't "i'm a good guy who helps the guild and everyone likes, even though my class doesn't offer much". <div></div>

[githnaur]

<span><blockquote><hr>Nevarer wrote: <p>Seems to me that all paladins do nothing but complain about our class. I honestly dont see anything wrong with us. I do amazing dps, I guess cause I know how to play my class. The spells are fine the way they are. You just have to know how to use everything you have instead of waiting on 1 or 2 abilities. Consecrated aura is great dps. Refusal of faith does around 1200 for me. Its fine with 60 sec timer. I think im more powerful now then before revamp. Did zek and I almost hit 1k dps with all aoes and attacks. But, I can buff up to 350+ str and 200+ int. Im all offensive mainly cause im in a raid guild and I dont tank. Pallys arent real tanks. We are hybrids. Not really good at anything. Not best healers, not best tanks, not best dps. We fall in the middle in all categories. So actually for our class they did right thing in taking those 2 attacks up to higher timers. For the way I play I do good dmg and still rank decently high on parse at 300+ for most part, if its undead I own it and thats all yall need to know <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p> <p>Yea as far as stuns go this game sucks cause all mobs are berzerkers. Vaquish ftw. We have alot of stuns. USE them. If you dont like stuns keep the mob stunned and it wont be a problem. </p> <p>As far as our defining abilities go, Its LoH. Rez used to be but it sucks now and isnt really useful. The ward is a defining ability for me because it gets good with Demonstration of Devotion. 910 ward rocks. Grp heal is good to, it is a defiite plus to grping but is a major mana eater.</p> <p>Overall I enjoy playing my Paladin though with how I play it I should have went dps. Thats my mindset is to kill asap and I turned my paladin into dps machine. </p><hr></blockquote>Let me clarify: I'm proposing a change to the "oath strike" CA line. Specificaly, bring the duration of damage back down to it's original 6 seconds from its current 24. This <b>will </b></span><span>(assuming it lands) </span><span>cause a ramp up in burst DPS, increase it's usefulness in agro retention. This <b>will not</b> change or increase prolonged DPS, make it refresh any faster, make it cause greater damage, alter it's mana cost. </span><div></div>

[Dasein]

<DIV> <HR> If the RoG line gets resisted we really lack any other "fast takedown" ability and I feel we already take enough punishment and interrupts from a mob without having the agony extended by 18 seconds.  Overall our prolonged DPS will remain the same, granted our burst DPS will increase, but this may help a little with our agro issues and in my mind push back up the usefullnes of what was one of our defining CAs.  <HR> </DIV>If a spell is resisted, it only has a 3 second recast timer. Also, hit your divine debuff before letting loose with your divine damage spells.

[mortem]

<div></div>yes the recast time on resisted CAs is really cool.  What I hate is that doom judgement is still on same timer but does same damage as our other AEs.  I think it should be lowered down to at least 1 min recast time.  Thats just me though. I loved watching it do incredible damage on a group of 6 gnolls in SP before combat changes. Im sure you guys/gals know what im talking about. <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span> I am very happy with what happened to oath strike line. It used to do a couple of hundred damage initally with no dot, but now it does 150+ initial and the long dot is way cool now ticking at 90 every 6 secs, which is a lifesaver sometimes.  Im not a real big fan of the 1 min recast especially if it doesn't land but I'll live with if just fine. edit: yes debuffing divine increases spell damage on almost everything since most of our CAs deal divine.  Smite Prayer or equivalent AE taunt debuffs divine iirc.<p>Message Edited by amadeusex on <span class=date_text>10-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:32 PM</span>