A message to combat revamp naysayers.

[BaneOfTheE]

<DIV>Well, from what I've been seeing, Paladins are generally upset about the upcoming combat changes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm an ex-SWG player and had played for a while before its combat revamp. When the beta was first released, myself along with many others hated it with a passion. We didn't like the new graphics, experience changes and the lot. (The combat system actually became a lot like EQ2's.) However, I kept testing, and as time went by, it got much better. In fact, it made gameplay more fun and group-based. It overall created a more positive gaming experience.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So all of you that are worried about this revamp, I say relax. Even if it doesn't look good in the beginning, there's a good chance it'll turn out that things will be even better in the end.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>:smileyhappy:</DIV><p>Message Edited by BaneOfTheEnd on <span class=date_text>07-29-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:31 PM</span>

[djhbeek]

you know ... as far as the changes, they are gonna do what they are gonna do... i just don't like the way they are handling it. <div></div>

[Pilo]

I'd agree.  In fact, I kind of like the changes they're making.  I think they'll make me a better tank.  More heals = good.  I shouldn't be focusing on DPS anyway, and the only reason I do is because I can.  I shouldn't be able to. Anyway, I agree, the way they're handling it could be better.  These chagnes have been in the pipeline forever, but they're coming at an innane pace.  When are they due, anyway?  Jeeze.  Not to mention having a veil of secrecy does nothing but generate bad buzz.  I've never seen that work right.  Open things up and you get great buzz.  Look at all the amazing buzz from more opened up beta versions of games (WoW comes to mind) that ended up being less then spectacular.  You can hype anything up positively if you "market" it right, and they certainly aren't doing that with these changes. Oh well. <div></div>

[ManaByte]

Actually you shouldn't form any opinion on any rumors you hear about such changes until they appear on Test for you to check out yourself. The reason there's a NDA on them right now on the beta server is because they can change from day to day and SOE wants to avoid panic and confusion. What rumors you're hearing right now may turn out to be completely different when the changes appear on Test and then the live servers. <div></div>

[Pilo]

While it may be true that things on beta are in flux, the nature of beta and the history of SOE show us that the Live version of what is there now likely won't be all that different.  Will there be changes between now and then?  Of course.  Will they be major and sweeping?  Absolutely not. <div></div>

[BlackW]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BaneOfTheEnd wrote:<BR> <DIV>Well, from what I've been seeing, Paladins are generally upset about the upcoming combat changes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm an ex-SWG player and had played for a while before its combat revamp. When the beta was first released, myself along with many others hated it with a passion. We didn't like the new graphics, experience changes and the lot. (The combat system actually became a lot like EQ2's.) However, I kept testing, and as time went by, it got much better. In fact, it made gameplay more fun and group-based. It overall created a more positive gaming experience.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So all of you that are worried about this revamp, I say relax. Even if it doesn't look good in the beginning, there's a good chance it'll turn out that things will be even better in the end.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>:smileyhappy:</DIV> <P>Message Edited by BaneOfTheEnd on <SPAN class=date_text>07-29-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:31 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Read the thread I wrote on the Combat Upgrade after I got back from the summit.   There has been little if any additional information released since then.   The information that has been released has been very general and somewhat vauge.  I am tired of repeating it over and over again.   I am not in a panic over the Combat Upgrade, I dont think any of you should be either.   The best way to learn about it, is the day it is released on the test server, log on and check it out.   Also I dont want to incur the wrath of Moorgaurd or Blackgaurd by engaging in idle speculation on the Combat Upgrade.

[MeridianR]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BlackWeb wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BaneOfTheEnd wrote:<BR> <DIV>Well, from what I've been seeing, Paladins are generally upset about the upcoming combat changes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm an ex-SWG player and had played for a while before its combat revamp. When the beta was first released, myself along with many others hated it with a passion. We didn't like the new graphics, experience changes and the lot. (The combat system actually became a lot like EQ2's.) However, I kept testing, and as time went by, it got much better. In fact, it made gameplay more fun and group-based. It overall created a more positive gaming experience.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So all of you that are worried about this revamp, I say relax. Even if it doesn't look good in the beginning, there's a good chance it'll turn out that things will be even better in the end.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>:smileyhappy:</DIV> <P>Message Edited by BaneOfTheEnd on <SPAN class=date_text>07-29-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:31 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Read the thread I wrote on the Combat Upgrade after I got back from the summit.   There has been little if any additional information released since then.   The information that has been released has been very general and somewhat vauge.  I am tired of repeating it over and over again.   I am not in a panic over the Combat Upgrade, I dont think any of you should be either.   <STRONG>The best way to learn about it, is the day it is released on the test server, log on and check it out.</STRONG>   Also I dont want to incur the wrath of Moorgaurd or Blackgaurd by engaging in idle speculation on the Combat Upgrade. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Right because I have a L50 Paladin on test or have the time to grind one on out....give me a break, after the SWG combat revamp they lost TONS of people. (believe me, I have had an SWG account since June 2003 when it was launched), and that was WITH allowing people to pick whatever template they wanted to try out.</P> <P>So unless EQ2 has little blue frogs setup on Test Center (which is what they did in SWG) the people who got a beta invite get 6 + weeks of testing new skills on there normal toon, while we sit around and twiddle our thumbs.</P> <P>Think about that last statement...if you are not in beta, and do not have a L50 Paladin on test center, when the combat revamp is released you are now 6+ weeks behind in the learning curve....</P> <P>Just because you are buddy buddy with the devs BlackWeb, don't come here and try to preach that the way they are handling this is right, because it is not.</P> <P>Maybe when the drop below 200k subs because they [Removed for Content] everyone off and handled what they are doing like this, they will learn.</P> <P>/rantOFF</P> <P>** Note **</P> <P> Sorry for sounding so harsh, but really there is nothing else I can say. I sent MG a couple PMs' voicing my concern, but like always I never get a response.  While I still love this game, and login as often as I can unless they do something to allow people to test these changes as there own character (withouth getting 'randomly' selected for beta) I am not sure I am willing to give my money to them anymore.<BR></P>

[BlackW]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MeridianR wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BlackWeb wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BaneOfTheEnd wrote:<BR> <DIV>Well, from what I've been seeing, Paladins are generally upset about the upcoming combat changes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm an ex-SWG player and had played for a while before its combat revamp. When the beta was first released, myself along with many others hated it with a passion. We didn't like the new graphics, experience changes and the lot. (The combat system actually became a lot like EQ2's.) However, I kept testing, and as time went by, it got much better. In fact, it made gameplay more fun and group-based. It overall created a more positive gaming experience.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So all of you that are worried about this revamp, I say relax. Even if it doesn't look good in the beginning, there's a good chance it'll turn out that things will be even better in the end.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>:smileyhappy:</DIV> <P>Message Edited by BaneOfTheEnd on <SPAN class=date_text>07-29-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:31 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Read the thread I wrote on the Combat Upgrade after I got back from the summit.   There has been little if any additional information released since then.   The information that has been released has been very general and somewhat vauge.  I am tired of repeating it over and over again.   I am not in a panic over the Combat Upgrade, I dont think any of you should be either.   <STRONG>The best way to learn about it, is the day it is released on the test server, log on and check it out.</STRONG>   Also I dont want to incur the wrath of Moorgaurd or Blackgaurd by engaging in idle speculation on the Combat Upgrade. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Right because I have a L50 Paladin on test or have the time to grind one on out....give me a break, after the SWG combat revamp they lost TONS of people. (believe me, I have had an SWG account since June 2003 when it was launched), and that was WITH allowing people to pick whatever template they wanted to try out.</P> <P>So unless EQ2 has little blue frogs setup on Test Center (which is what they did in SWG) the people who got a beta invite get 6 + weeks of testing new skills on there normal toon, while we sit around and twiddle our thumbs.</P> <P>Think about that last statement...if you are not in beta, and do not have a L50 Paladin on test center, when the combat revamp is released you are now 6+ weeks behind in the learning curve....</P> <P>Just because you are buddy buddy with the devs BlackWeb, don't come here and try to preach that the way they are handling this is right, because it is not.</P> <P>Maybe when the drop below 200k subs because they [Removed for Content] everyone off and handled what they are doing like this, they will learn.</P> <P>/rantOFF</P> <P>** Note **</P> <P> Sorry for sounding so harsh, but really there is nothing else I can say. I sent MG a couple PMs' voicing my concern, but like always I never get a response.  While I still love this game, and login as often as I can unless they do something to allow people to test these changes as there own character (withouth getting 'randomly' selected for beta) I am not sure I am willing to give my money to them anymore.<BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Umm me buddy buddy?  Did you see Moorgaurds post?  Didnt sound like it to me. 

[Siberia2]

Not so worried about the combat revamp as I am mad that they are doing it 9 months after release.. As far as SWG goes.. The Combat Pass has shown positive effects some time after it was pushed live, but fewer people were there to see it.. Was hoping that SoE would avoid losing even more players, but if they are willing to make that sacrifice then so be it. Just as long as they don't make me a healer <span>:smileytongue:</span> (I'm a Monk, was just surfing the boards hehe.) <div></div>

[Avigat]

<DIV>And thats the problem with releasing a game before it is ready.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There shouldnt BE a combat revamp.  This [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] should have been set before it went live.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now they are going to go in and [Removed for Content] off all the people that have been playing since release.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Even before the SWG revamp SOE screwed it up.  2 weeks before the end of beta they put in a patch that [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ed the whole game up.  I quit about a month after release.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You can't make drastic, fundamental changes like that after a game is released.</DIV>

[Collaud]

<DIV>You can add me to the growing list of players who are extremely disatisfied with SOE.  It really says something about a company when their two major MMORPGs (I've spent significant time playing both) have needed complete overhauls of the combat system.  I'm tired of being jerked around as a customer and they're about to lose my business for good.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On top of that, the re-tiering of overland zones (more heroics) and combat revamp (can no longer solo low green heroics) are not looking good for solo/casual gamers like myself.</DIV>

[Knesh]

I will throw my 2cents into the mix, one I never played SWG and from the uproar of people who played it dont have great things to say about it. I came from EQ1 and IMO they did an excellent, excellent job with it. So coming to EQ2 for my next MMORPG seemed like a good choice. Am I dissapointed in EQ2, yes I am. Am I dissapointed with SOE's customer service, yes I am. The Support EQ1 received was VASTLY SUPERIOR in every way. Maybe because it was the first true MMORPG and they wanted it to be well liked on all lvls. Now SOE is shipping support overseas, forcing it's paid player base to handle there own problems. Forcing them to log off make a post to see if devs will help. This to me is NOT customer service. I want a GM who can help me, not tell me he is sorry for the inconvience. Bringing a combat revamp 7-9 months after release is a HUGE problem - More and more game manufactures seem to be forcing these games to the market WELL before they are ready and its not fair to the people who pay $50 bucks+ for these games. Look at what Microsoft did with Fable - the game sucked, they are adding all the stuff they SAID was in the game originally as a new game for PC but will players need to buy it, yes, will players be allowed sub there xbox title for it? No. Look at Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic 1 - was a great game - new designer for Sequel - cut scenes were missing story gaps. The game was horrible given 2-3 more months would have been a much better game - but they rushed it for christmas. Its all about the money - its like the could care less if you like it - you already bought it and you can't return it. Tough!  We pay SOE money to provide us a game and service. We provide feedback and they make a determination what needs to change. WIll the combat changes be good or bad - only time will tell - could this be the worst thing to happen to EQ2 yes- could this be the best thing to happen to EQ2, yes. Your always going to have people who like it and people who hate it. I am going to wait for the combat revamp, wait for DOF and if looks good and plays great I will continue to play - if not I will walk away and find something else to do or somewhere else to spend my money. I can honestly say I understand the need for NDA's and beta testers - you must have them. Not everyone can beta it. The world would not support that many players. But I also do not like the way SOE is handling it. They should be giving us a breakdown on what they feel is needing the change and what they are trying to do to resolve it. Don't keep us in the dark. People do NOT like being left out of the loop. Especially paying customers - somewhere along the line we lost track of what matters - customer service and quality control. <div></div>

[Collaud]

<P>Knesh, don't forget that Verant and Brad McQuaid (Vanguard) designed EQ.  The ugly truth is that both MMORPGs developed from the ground up by current SOE staff have been disasters... if not disasters, they've fallen far short of expectations and left bitter tastes in the mouths of players.</P>

[Avigat]

1 starring my post makes Brad McQuaid cry <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Wurm]

<P>The blue frogs on SWG test were a great idea and I wish they would do the same here. I'd be on test right now seeing how my Paladin is going to be when this change hits live.</P> <P> </P> <P>SWG *sigh* what a great game THAT could have been.</P>

[demolition tank]

The changes are de-balling EQ2, what little balls it did have. They will strip the game of any flavor, and it will be a bland WoW clone, which is what they are shooting for. IF I  WIANTED TO PLAY WOW I WOULD BUY IT!! I DON'T WANT YOU TO TURN EQ2 INTO WOW!! GET A FREEKING CLUE!! <div></div>

[xIC]

<DIV>What.....?!??!,  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Deballing eq2 and turning it into wow?  I doubt it bro.  Have you ever played WoW.  You can power level a character in WoW in 10-14 days and cap out.  Then you pvp and then you get bored.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The combat changes are making EQ2 a bit more tougher and competitive.  Its takes some serious dedication to get a character to 50 in eq2. It not like wow, where wow made it super easy to top out.  I'd hate to have a game where i capped out in 2 weeks.  I love the fact i had lots of content to go through to get to 50.  Yeah there are people that can power level a character in eq2 but not nearly as easily as in WoW.  If one thing the combat change are not doing, is making it easier.  You probably should get your facts straight before going off like that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Demonslayor</DIV>

[Fellgaze]

I would have to agree. An average player can get 3 to 4 levels *easily* in the same amount of time it takes to get 1 in EQ2...I think that was a flawed comparison there.

[lichmeister]

yes amen <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> everyone needs to stop w the doom and gloom already... as it stands i can almost match the scouts dps in my level range if i go allout with my dps... never actually beatenthe scouts dps unless he went afk during battle but my dps is nothing to complain about... thing is, if i wanted to be a dps class, i woulda made a warlock... rather than coming onto these forums and predicting the end of all things paladin in norrath, try and play on test and offer some constructive suggestions while they are still making it happen?... or is that to much to ask? <div></div>

[lichmeister]

<span><blockquote><hr>Knesh wrote:...I can honestly say I understand the need for NDA's and beta testers - you must have them. Not everyone can beta it. The world would not support that many players. But I also do not like the way SOE is handling it. They should be giving us a breakdown on what they feel is needing the change and what they are trying to do to resolve it. Don't keep us in the dark. People do NOT like being left out of the loop. Especially paying customers - somewhere along the line we lost track of what matters - customer service and quality control. <div></div><hr></blockquote>ya this is my problem with the test server... there is no dialogue between the developers and the testers... they just toss abunch of changes out there and a few weeks later, if they dont cause zone crashes, they hit live... ive never seen a post in the testing section from a developer saying 'this is what we are doing, this is why we are doing it... please try it out and let us know how it effects this other thing' i think that the testers could do a much better job if the developers worked <i>with</i> them instead of proclaiming mysterious changes from on high in my opinion, every major test server update should come with a letter describing what the developers are up to and what they would like the testers to play around with the most and what they just need to confirm works. give us a feel for what they are thinking up there in SOE land so we can best help them! </span><div></div>

[Tag]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> xICEx wrote:<BR> <DIV>What.....?!??!,  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Deballing eq2 and turning it into wow?  I doubt it bro.  Have you ever played WoW.  You can power level a character in WoW in 10-14 days and cap out.  Then you pvp and then you get bored.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The combat changes are making EQ2 a bit more tougher and competitive.  Its takes some serious dedication to get a character to 50 in eq2. It not like wow, where wow made it super easy to top out.  I'd hate to have a game where i capped out in 2 weeks.  I love the fact i had lots of content to go through to get to 50.  Yeah there are people that can power level a character in eq2 but not nearly as easily as in WoW.  If one thing the combat change are not doing, is making it easier.  You probably should get your facts straight before going off like that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Demonslayor</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I must be doing something wrong then I've been playing WoW for 6 days now and I'm only level 12. I must say I put off playing WoW because of listening to all the bad things EQ2 players had to say about it and now I have been having more fun in WoW than I ever had in any other online game. I'm not staying with WoW and will hopefully be back in EQ2 but I cancelled all 3 of my EQ2 accounts and will come back if I hear good things otherwise there are a bunch of new MMORPG games coming. I now have 3 WoW accounts and am having fun, maybe if I play long enough I'll be level 60 and full of boredom but for now I'm having a blast.<BR> <p>Message Edited by Tagga on <span class=date_text>08-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:39 AM</span>

[Jonnas]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BaneOfTheEnd wrote:<BR> <DIV>Well, from what I've been seeing, Paladins are generally upset about the upcoming combat changes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm an ex-SWG player and had played for a while before its combat revamp. When the beta was first released, myself along with many others hated it with a passion. We didn't like the new graphics, experience changes and the lot. (The combat system actually became a lot like EQ2's.) However, I kept testing, and as time went by, it got much better. In fact, it made gameplay more fun and group-based. It overall created a more positive gaming experience.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So all of you that are worried about this revamp, I say relax. Even if it doesn't look good in the beginning, there's a good chance it'll turn out that things will be even better in the end.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>:smileyhappy:</DIV> <P>Message Edited by BaneOfTheEnd on <SPAN class=date_text>07-29-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:31 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I am also an ex-swg player. One that has played swg from scratch and i must say that if SOE handle the combat update in the same way that it was implimented in SWG you have a great deal to worry about. What the original poster failed to mention was that swg lost over 50% of its subsciber base over the first 2 months of the CU going live and although no hard numbers have been forthcoming it is obvious that number continue to dwindle. </P> <P>I don't really think this is actually due to the combat system that is slowly evolving from the constant patches and hotfixes as the game as it stands now is getting there. The problem lies in the fact that SOE never listened to anything the thousands of open testers had to say. Somuch so that the devs at the fanfaire were suprised to hear of issues that had dominated literally dozens of threads every day with thousands of posts all details these issues. </P> <P>In my opinion that was the downfall of SWG and I can only hope EQ2 has learned the lesson from that. Ignore your user base and you will loose players. Had the dev team in swg taken the time to explain why unpopular changes were being made and went to to discuss in detail the role they had in mind for each class with a breakdown on how they should be implimented I think swg would have lost very few players. Instead we were given a few pie charts and a 4 month long stonewall silence no matter how many people asked for info.</P> <P>The devs of this game have a great chance to change this game for the better with the full help of the community and the only way to do that is with great two way communication. SWG is not a dead game now certainly but the massive loss of subscibers could have been much, much less and the formal appology from the community relations manager more or less said that.</P> <P>I really hope SOE has taken all of that on board, this is a good game. It would be such a shame for the SWG mistake to be made again. Sorry for the long post.</P>

[RiotActer]

<span><blockquote><hr>Jonnas wrote: <blockquote> <hr> BaneOfTheEnd wrote: <div></div> <div>Well, from what I've been seeing, Paladins are generally upset about the upcoming combat changes.</div> <div> </div> <div>I'm an ex-SWG player and had played for a while before its combat revamp. When the beta was first released, myself along with many others hated it with a passion. We didn't like the new graphics, experience changes and the lot. (The combat system actually became a lot like EQ2's.) However, I kept testing, and as time went by, it got much better. In fact, it made gameplay more fun and group-based. It overall created a more positive gaming experience.</div> <div> </div> <div>So all of you that are worried about this revamp, I say relax. Even if it doesn't look good in the beginning, there's a good chance it'll turn out that things will be even better in the end.</div> <div> </div> <div>:smileyhappy:</div> <p>Message Edited by BaneOfTheEnd on <span class="date_text">07-29-2005</span> <span class="time_text">03:31 PM</span> </p><hr> </blockquote> <p>I am also an ex-swg player. One that has played swg from scratch and i must say that if SOE handle the combat update in the same way that it was implimented in SWG you have a great deal to worry about. What the original poster failed to mention was that swg lost over 50% of its subsciber base over the first 2 months of the CU going live and although no hard numbers have been forthcoming it is obvious that number continue to dwindle. </p> <p>I don't really think this is actually due to the combat system that is slowly evolving from the constant patches and hotfixes as the game as it stands now is getting there. The problem lies in the fact that SOE never listened to anything the thousands of open testers had to say. Somuch so that the devs at the fanfaire were suprised to hear of issues that had dominated literally dozens of threads every day with thousands of posts all details these issues. </p> <p>In my opinion that was the downfall of SWG and I can only hope EQ2 has learned the lesson from that. Ignore your user base and you will loose players. Had the dev team in swg taken the time to explain why unpopular changes were being made and went to to discuss in detail the role they had in mind for each class with a breakdown on how they should be implimented I think swg would have lost very few players. Instead we were given a few pie charts and a 4 month long stonewall silence no matter how many people asked for info.</p> <p>The devs of this game have a great chance to change this game for the better with the full help of the community and the only way to do that is with great two way communication. SWG is not a dead game now certainly but the massive loss of subscibers could have been much, much less and the formal appology from the community relations manager more or less said that.</p> <p>I really hope SOE has taken all of that on board, this is a good game. It would be such a shame for the SWG mistake to be made again. Sorry for the long post.</p><hr></blockquote> One thing I will say...  SOE here at EQ2 has listened, and that's why we're seeing this overhaul...  Go back over some of the major updates.  Pally's got their horses nerfed...  Why?  Because of the shear number of complaints on these boards.  So and so can't tank equal with a guardian.  Class xyz is not need for end game raids.  All you have to do is go back a few pages on this Pally board....  You'll see the flames about tanking and how bad we are at it.  Crys of "Devs please fix, NOW!"  It's like that on most of the other boards as well.  So they are listenening.  They are changing things...  As we've already seen, the next thing we will here:  "I can't solo!"  I'd hate to be a dev....  you can't please everyone in your customer base.  For an overall change, I think these changes are good.  You will start to see a "different" group dynamic.  I think that was the bottom line with these changes..  Changing the end game.  I do have a feeling when it's all said and done, many people will leave..   They will be upset that then can't take down that Epic x4 with the uber loot with only 12 people anymore.  Yes, I can see their point...  But at the same time, it really was an Epic x4....  So basically no matter what you fix, it will "break" what something about what someone thinks about the game.  There were cries for more Solo, they gave it to you, then once added...  The group people cried, there's too much solo!  It all works out in the end...  And guess what, it's a game.  If it ain't fun, don't play it.  There is no such thing as a perfect MMO.  Name a current (last 4-5 years) one that doesn't have issues and hasn't revamped at some point.</span><div></div>