T5 rares Rubys and Rhodiums

[daymoore21]

<DIV>Would it be wise to hold off until the next major set of changes happen (combat changes) to buy Adept3 spells? My whole thought process on this is that if we have a fundamental shift away from our current DPS role to a more aligined Heal - taunt role that we just really dont know what the best avenue is now (probably not DPS spells). I am at Lvl 48 now and I have 3 rares 1 ruby 2 rhodiums (spelling) but I want to make the right choices in adept 3 spells, the combat changes along with comments on this board in regards to adept3 and Masters becoming more powerful have my head spinning. Any comments are very welcome!  </DIV>

[djhbeek]

there was some discussion of this in another thread (i forget which).  most people seemed to agree that you are right to hold off, but you probably want to keep stockpiling rubies, as the prices are sure to rise.  if it turns out you stockpile too many, you can always sell them to the people who didn't think ahead.  <span>:smileyhappy:</span> that being said, i think Pious Aid, Clarion Call, and Zealous Preaching are all probably still worth upgrading now, as I can't see those core skills going anywhere (if anything, they will get better, not worse).  DPS skills are another issue.  there are so many of them, it's gonna be tough to guess which ones are worthwhile, so you might as well wait and see. <div></div>

[WAPCE]

Save 'em. What I heard from someone who heard from someone who heard from someone else whose previous roommate's dog owner is in beta said... <img src="http://home.comcast.net/~axp696/gimped.jpg">

[Syf]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> djhbeek wrote:<BR><BR>that being said, i think Pious Aid, Clarion Call, and Zealous Preaching are all probably still worth upgrading now, as I can't see those core skills going anywhere (if anything, they will get better, not worse).  <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Pious Aid and Zealous Preaching are good to upgrade to Adept3. The single taunt that you can buy in Splitpaw is a good replacement for Clarion Call.</DIV>

[djhbeek]

<span><blockquote><hr>Syfft wrote: <blockquote> <hr> djhbeek wrote:that being said, i think Pious Aid, Clarion Call, and Zealous Preaching are all probably still worth upgrading now, as I can't see those core skills going anywhere (if anything, they will get better, not worse).  <hr> </blockquote> <div>Pious Aid and Zealous Preaching are good to upgrade to Adept3. The single taunt that you can buy in Splitpaw is a good replacement for Clarion Call.</div><hr></blockquote>doh ... woops.  forgot about that.  you are absolutely right.  I upgraded Clarion Call before SP and then threw it out for the SP spell and forgot.</span><div></div>

[djhbeek]

ps. in response to the other post, [Removed for Content]is up with them nerfing our single target heal? <div></div>

[MeridianR]

<span><blockquote><hr>djhbeek wrote:ps. in response to the other post, [Removed for Content]is up with them nerfing our single target heal? <div></div><hr></blockquote>Yeah I heard from a friend, who heard from a friend, who heard from that friends biological mother's third cousin, that there is another big change to Pally's that is really fuming me (and the others I have talked to) up pretty bad. </span><div></div>

[djhbeek]

imho they really need to post the combat changes on the public boards ... this stuff about some players knowing about them and others not is gonna really cause problems i think ... <div></div>

[WAPCE]

Everyone, remember to take screenshots of all your spells and CAs now so we can gripe about how badly they've all been nerfed when we compare them to the new versions. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[MeridianR]

NOTHING TO SEE HERE!<p>Message Edited by MeridianR on <span class=date_text>07-29-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:55 PM</span>

[Azilarir]

From what I've heard so far, this combat change is going to greatly impact my enjoyment of my character.  I made him and invested time in him to produce the kind of character I want to play.  Now it turns out that paladins are going to be litlte more than a rock that sits there, taunts, and heals.  Why not just call us Clerics With Taunts.  I'm a level 50 Paladin on Lucan D'Lere with all but two of our abilities at Adept III or higher. If you want screen shots of abilities PRE-changes, you can get them at www.azilarir.com.  I don't particularly suggest upgrading most of them on the basis that they don't scale well.  Beyond that and on the subjects of both (a) combat changes and (b) upcoming expansion pack, there's almost NO reason to upgrade all but a few of our top-level abilities. As of this moment, I'm disgusted.  I'm not screaming 'quit, quit', but like I said, I will really not enjoy my paladin anymore if I'm to be turned into a healer... with taunts. <div></div>

[GilfalasElaandrin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Azilarir wrote:<BR>I'm a level 50 Paladin on Lucan D'Lere with <STRONG>all but two of our abilities at Adept III or higher</STRONG>.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Frankly that is just simply astounding. How did you make so much money or did the gods themselves grant you their own luck harvesting? I know some friends who have been able to adept 3 a LOT of their impoirtant skills, I was able to do about 4-5 the last two tiers myself, but ALL of them at adept III or master? That is just insanely lucky.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How have you been able to do it? I definately want to do it as well!</DIV>

[Kutark]

<DIV>You can make anywhere from 50g to 1pp+ a day in splitpaw, depending on how much you play.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With adept 3's from 40 to 50 generally costing about 1.8-2pp each, you should be able to manage adept 3's for all your useful spells in a reasonable amt of time.</DIV>

[djhbeek]

i have almost all Adept3s and could have all Adept3s if I thought they were all worth it, and my luck at harvesting sux (one rhodium and one ruby ever).  the thing is, i'm in a guild that does every instance every night, so we get like 5 rubies off of epics a day.  at that rate, it's relatively easy to get everyone in guild's hotbar all Adept3 if you want, same thing with ebon.  i would take a guess that if you look at all the people with all ebon and all adept3s about 80% of this stuff came off of epics and only 10% came from harvesting, and about 10% from buying ... <div></div>

[Azilarir]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>GilfalasElaandrin wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Azilarir wrote:I'm a level 50 Paladin on Lucan D'Lere with <strong>all but two of our abilities at Adept III or higher</strong>. <div></div> <hr> </blockquote> <div>Frankly that is just simply astounding. How did you make so much money or did the gods themselves grant you their own luck harvesting? I know some friends who have been able to adept 3 a LOT of their impoirtant skills, I was able to do about 4-5 the last two tiers myself, but ALL of them at adept III or master? That is just insanely lucky.</div> <div> </div> <div>How have you been able to do it? I definately want to do it as well!</div><hr></blockquote>70% of my rares I harvested myself... I spend upwards of 12-14 hours daily harvesting.  It's boring as hell. The rest is purchased with the money I make from selling my unwanted rares.  At the price of 1.8p to 3.0p per ruby/rhodium (on our server), it's very expensive. Splitpaw does very little for me.  I find it more boring than harvesting, though I really should get back into it for the chance at Master drops. I am a guildleader of a small (size, not level) guild, and we just don't raid often.  When we do, it's for pickup spots in other guild's raids 95% of the time.  In fact, I think I've only had 3 rares from raids before and 2 were linens. Just spend some time harvesting up tier5.  I get about 1 rare per 3-5 hours of solid harvesting.  For example, I got a rhodium so far today.  Rhodium, figwart, and pelt yesterday.  Ruby and ebon the day before.  Monday I got a rhodium and ruby.  Definitely worth my time... </span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Azilarir on <span class=date_text>08-04-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:38 PM</span>

[Azilarir]

<span><blockquote><hr>Kutark wrote:<div>You can make anywhere from 50g to 1pp+ a day in splitpaw, depending on how much you play.</div> <div> </div> <div>With adept 3's from 40 to 50 generally costing about 1.8-2pp each, you should be able to manage adept 3's for all your useful spells in a reasonable amt of time.</div><hr></blockquote>I certainly don't mean to criticize, but using your math, it would take 45-100 days (over three months) to upgrade.  That's not a reasonable amount of time to do the same activity every single day, especially to the casual player.  Not that my method is much better, but does have marginal benefits based on time alone.  Factor into risk (there's always some) and it's not the most profitable for most people.  Realisticly, most people don't have time to harvest half the day like I do, so they won't get 2-3 rares a day (3.0p - 6.0p per day), but I still find it better than Splitpaw, especially if your server sells rares much higher than others.  I really wish the prices would come down some, but we just don't have the raiding force of other guilds yet, so our market just isn't spammed with rares... yet. Anyway, back on topic, I can't begin to express how upste I am over the possibility that we're losing everything I've worked so hard for.  I can't imagine where SOE is going with this and like others have posted before me... keeping us up in the air and not quelching rumors leave a bad taste in my mouth.  We'll see. </span><div></div>

[Zoren Northwood]

<i><span>Definitely worth my time... </span></i><span>That's highly, HIGHLY debatable. </span><div></div>

[Azilarir]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Zoren Northwood wrote:<i><span>Definitely worth my time... </span></i><span>That's highly, HIGHLY debatable. </span><div></div><hr></blockquote>Based on my options and available gameplay time, I disagree (obviously, or else I wouldn't have written that).  Presumably if you disagree and want to spend the minute posting so, you would also post why... So... why do you think it's debatable.  More specificly, why is it 'highly' debatable?  Better yet, why is it 'highly, HIGHLY' debatable?  And how do you debate what is and isn't worth my time -- isn't that something that only I can determine? </span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Azilarir on <span class=date_text>08-04-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:20 PM</span>

[Kutark]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Azilarir wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kutark wrote:<BR> <DIV>You can make anywhere from 50g to 1pp+ a day in splitpaw, depending on how much you play.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With adept 3's from 40 to 50 generally costing about 1.8-2pp each, you should be able to manage adept 3's for all your useful spells in a reasonable amt of time.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I certainly don't mean to criticize, but using your math, it would take 45-100 days (over three months) to upgrade.  That's not a reasonable amount of time to do the same activity every single day, especially to the casual player.  Not that my method is much better, but does have marginal benefits based on time alone.  Factor into risk (there's always some) and it's not the most profitable for most people.  Realisticly, most people don't have time to harvest half the day like I do, so they won't get 2-3 rares a day (3.0p - 6.0p per day), but I still find it better than Splitpaw, especially if your server sells rares much higher than others.  I really wish the prices would come down some, but we just don't have the raiding force of other guilds yet, so our market just isn't spammed with rares... yet.<BR><BR>Anyway, back on topic, I can't begin to express how upste I am over the possibility that we're losing everything I've worked so hard for.  I can't imagine where SOE is going with this and like others have posted before me... keeping us up in the air and not quelching rumors leave a bad taste in my mouth.  We'll see.<BR><BR><BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Hehe, ok, first of all, you need to factor in costs of different tiers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Regardless i was talking about getting the spells upgraded that are useful at 50.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] is the point of adept 3 for something you're going to have ended up replacing twice with upgraded spells.<BR></DIV>

[Azilarir]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Kutark wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Azilarir wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Kutark wrote:<div>You can make anywhere from 50g to 1pp+ a day in splitpaw, depending on how much you play.</div><div> </div><div>With adept 3's from 40 to 50 generally costing about 1.8-2pp each, you should be able to manage adept 3's for all your useful spells in a reasonable amt of time.</div><hr></blockquote>I certainly don't mean to criticize, but using your math, it would take 45-100 days (over three months) to upgrade.  That's not a reasonable amount of time to do the same activity every single day, especially to the casual player.  Not that my method is much better, but does have marginal benefits based on time alone.  Factor into risk (there's always some) and it's not the most profitable for most people.  Realisticly, most people don't have time to harvest half the day like I do, so they won't get 2-3 rares a day (3.0p - 6.0p per day), but I still find it better than Splitpaw, especially if your server sells rares much higher than others.  I really wish the prices would come down some, but we just don't have the raiding force of other guilds yet, so our market just isn't spammed with rares... yet.Anyway, back on topic, I can't begin to express how upste I am over the possibility that we're losing everything I've worked so hard for.  I can't imagine where SOE is going with this and like others have posted before me... keeping us up in the air and not quelching rumors leave a bad taste in my mouth.  We'll see.</span><hr></blockquote><div>Hehe, ok, first of all, you need to factor in costs of different tiers.</div><div> </div><div>Regardless i was talking about getting the spells upgraded that are useful at 50.</div><div> </div><div>[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] is the point of adept 3 for something you're going to have ended up replacing twice with upgraded spells.</div><hr></blockquote>You were?   ["talking about (only) getting spells upgraded that are useful at 50"]</span><a target="_blank" href="../view_profile?user.id=36007"><span></span></a>GilfalasElaandrin was 'astounded' that I had so many Adept III's.  You replied that it's not that difficult to get [a complete set of] Adept III's.  Now you're saying you weren't talking about getting a complete set of Adept III's.  Far as I can tell, you were talking about all the Adept III's, not just the useful ones.I'm not looking for a fight, but I haven't swayed any in my opinion.And by the way, my numbers *do* factor in costs of different tiers.  When you're level 50, you'll see how very little you make use of abilities in tier4.  I only use four, and that's counting Doom Judgement (no replacement) from Bloodlines.  I also regularly use Toughness (1.6% extra mitigation at Adept III, even at level 50), Redemption (second tier), and Blinding Bash (second tier as well).  That leaves 20 upgradable abilities, 19 if you assume you don't upgrade the spell you replace with your level 40 training selection.  I guesstimated 25 in my figures from my previous post, so subtract 24% from my time estimates.  It now takes 34 - 76 days to get all Adept III's instead of about 11-14 (not even counting tier4 upgrades, so add more time to both methods).  There's some more specific numbers that factor in costs across tiers for you.Now that estimate isn't completely fair because your 50g - 1p/day is based on a gameplay range that you haven't mentioned yet.  So if that's in 12-14 hours of solid splitpaw action, then it's obvious which is more profitable.  If the price of rubies and rhodium drop dramaticly, it may be far more worthwhile to milk splitpaw than harvest, since the earnings is constant.Back to my point though... Gilfalas, if you want a lot of rares and stuff to make Adept III's out of and don't have a problem with mindless hours of harvesting, it's probably the most profitable outside of raiding.  My apologies to everyone for the long, boring post with numbers and such -- my purpose with this is to help discover what may or may not be the most efficient use of your time to earn money and rares, outside of raiding.(PS: I didn't count the ability that requires a two-handed weapon... from my experience, most people don't bother with it and so I overlooked it, but if you count that, it's another rare to add to the pot.)<div></div>

[BlackW]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> daymoore21 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Would it be wise to hold off until the next major set of changes happen (combat changes) to buy Adept3 spells? My whole thought process on this is that if we have a fundamental shift away from our current DPS role to a more aligined Heal - taunt role that we just really dont know what the best avenue is now (probably not DPS spells). I am at Lvl 48 now and I have 3 rares 1 ruby 2 rhodiums (spelling) but I want to make the right choices in adept 3 spells, the combat changes along with comments on this board in regards to adept3 and Masters becoming more powerful have my head spinning. Any comments are very welcome!  </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>My advice would be to purchase or harvest the rares then hold onto them.   There is no way of knowing what changes will be made in the Paladin though the rumors I have heard greatly concern me.   We cannot talk specifics because of the Beta NDA.

[K'aldar]

<span><blockquote><hr>BlackWeb wrote: <blockquote> <hr> daymoore21 wrote: <div>Would it be wise to hold off until the next major set of changes happen (combat changes) to buy Adept3 spells? My whole thought process on this is that if we have a fundamental shift away from our current DPS role to a more aligined Heal - taunt role that we just really dont know what the best avenue is now (probably not DPS spells). I am at Lvl 48 now and I have 3 rares 1 ruby 2 rhodiums (spelling) but I want to make the right choices in adept 3 spells, the combat changes along with comments on this board in regards to adept3 and Masters becoming more powerful have my head spinning. Any comments are very welcome!  </div> <hr> </blockquote>My advice would be to purchase or harvest the rares then hold onto them.   There is no way of knowing what changes will be made in the Paladin though the rumors I have heard greatly concern me.   We cannot talk specifics because of the Beta NDA. <div></div><hr></blockquote>my thoughts exactly.</span><div></div>

[BlackW]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Azilarir wrote:<BR>From what I've heard so far, this combat change is going to greatly impact my enjoyment of my character.  I made him and invested time in him to produce the kind of character I want to play.  Now it turns out that paladins are going to be litlte more than a rock that sits there, taunts, and heals.  Why not just call us Clerics With Taunts.  I'm a level 50 Paladin on Lucan D'Lere with all but two of our abilities at Adept III or higher.<BR><BR>If you want screen shots of abilities PRE-changes, you can get them at www.azilarir.com.  I don't particularly suggest upgrading most of them on the basis that they don't scale well.  Beyond that and on the subjects of both (a) combat changes and (b) upcoming expansion pack, there's almost NO reason to upgrade all but a few of our top-level abilities.<BR><BR>As of this moment, I'm disgusted.  I'm not screaming 'quit, quit', but like I said, I will really not enjoy my paladin anymore if I'm to be turned into a healer... with taunts.<BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I hear you and feel your pain.   What I am hearing about plans for the Paladin is making me very unhappy.   I got myself in trouble for speaking my mind so there is not much more I can say.   If it were not for my guild, I would be playing that other MMORPG tonight.

[BlackW]

<DIV>oops repost, please delete</DIV> <P>Message Edited by BlackWeb on <SPAN class=date_text>08-04-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>05:52 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by BlackWeb on <span class=date_text>08-04-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:52 PM</span>

[Kutark]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <SPAN><BR> <HR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>You were?   ["talking about (only) getting spells upgraded that are useful at 50"]<BR><BR></SPAN><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=36007" target=_blank><SPAN></SPAN></A>GilfalasElaandrin was 'astounded' that I had so many Adept III's.  You replied that it's not that difficult to get [a complete set of] Adept III's.  Now you're saying you weren't talking about getting a complete set of Adept III's.  Far as I can tell, you were talking about all the Adept III's, not just the useful ones.<BR><BR>I'm not looking for a fight, but I haven't swayed any in my opinion.<BR><BR>And by the way, my numbers *do* factor in costs of different tiers.  When you're level 50, you'll see how very little you make use of abilities in tier4.  I only use four, and that's counting Doom Judgement (no replacement) from Bloodlines.  I also regularly use Toughness (1.6% extra mitigation at Adept III, even at level 50), Redemption (second tier), and Blinding Bash (second tier as well).  That leaves 20 upgradable abilities, 19 if you assume you don't upgrade the spell you replace with your level 40 training selection.  I guesstimated 25 in my figures from my previous post, so subtract 24% from my time estimates.  It now takes 34 - 76 days to get all Adept III's instead of about 11-14 (not even counting tier4 upgrades, so add more time to both methods).  There's some more specific numbers that factor in costs across tiers for you.<BR><BR>Now that estimate isn't completely fair because your 50g - 1p/day is based on a gameplay range that you haven't mentioned yet.  So if that's in 12-14 hours of solid splitpaw action, then it's obvious which is more profitable.  If the price of rubies and rhodium drop dramaticly, it may be far more worthwhile to milk splitpaw than harvest, since the earnings is constant.<BR><BR>Back to my point though... Gilfalas, if you want a lot of rares and stuff to make Adept III's out of and don't have a problem with mindless hours of harvesting, it's probably the most profitable outside of raiding.  My apologies to everyone for the long, boring post with numbers and such -- my purpose with this is to help discover what may or may not be the most efficient use of your time to earn money and rares, outside of raiding.<BR><BR>(PS: I didn't count the ability that requires a two-handed weapon... from my experience, most people don't bother with it and so I overlooked it, but if you count that, it's another rare to add to the pot.)<BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Ok first of all, remove the twig from your [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]. </P> <P>Why the hell would anyone go and spend 1 to 2pp to upgrade a spell that is utterly useless to them at level 50?  Please explain that one to me.  I didn't feel it neccesary to delineate exactly what i was talking about because it was implied in the statement.  Thats like buying headers for the worn out 6 cylinder engine in your mustang when you're getting ready to drop a V8 in it. What's the point?</P> <P>As for my estimate, you can see i have a level 40 paladin (he is actually 41, but im lazy and haven't updated)  so it would be safe to assume that i would be going off of my own experiences, as obviously i wouldn't be able to tell you what kind of money a say, level 50 paladin might be able to make, being that i'm not level 50.</P> <P>Now, you've got me for not pointing out how many hours, etc etc i am talking about.  To me a solid days playing is about 6 hours.  Some its 3, some its 12.  Thus the 50g to 1pp per day range.  The range exists for a reason, to cover differences in players.</P> <P>I generally make about 30g in one full run of the upper tunnels in splitpaw at 40/41.  This translates to about 90g in a day, if i have the resolve to do it three times.</P> <P>Now you talk about, i'm assuming mining, being more profitable than splitpaw.  Mining you see works of this thing called chance.  You're not guarunteed shyte, as evidenced by me, i've spent now coming on 44 hours mining/foresting in feerott and rivervale and to date i have looted 1 rhodium cluster, thats it.  Some people will do 3 ebons in a 10 hour period, its all random.</P> <P>Splitpaw is guarunteed loot, you don't have to worry about wasting your time if you end up getting nothing.</P> <P>So, now lets do some math.  Lets be conservative and say you make 1pp in 6 hours of playing at level 50.  Lets say you play a total of 24 hours in a week.  That would be 4pp a week, approximately 2 level 40-50 adept 3's in a week.  So lets use your estimate of approx 20 spells that would cost 2pp each (realistically this is on a high side, but we'll keep it simple) you are looking at 40pp total. Now again, we can't be exact here because markets change, each server is different, but the one factor that is constant is splitpaw.  By that math you're looking at about 20 weeks to get your full set of every possible spell you could use at 50.</P> <P>So, i dont see how that is unreasonable considering A. the amt of money you're looking at, B. Its guarunteed, you don't have to worry about wasting 10 hours and walking away with nothing.</P> <P>So when you consider some of these people have been 50 for a very long time, and have been going insane in splitpaw just because its new content.  Its not very hard to believe that someone could have quite easily made enough money to purchase any and all the adept 3's they could possibly ever want.</P> <P>Not to mention from what i've read splitpaw was dropping master chests [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] near like candy (compared to how they drop now at least) which usually contain spells that can sell from anywhere from 1 to 10pp depending on the spell.  You see where money doesn't become as much of an issue as before.</P> <P>Frankly you need to chill out, if i was looking to start some detailed [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] argument with you i would have made a big long post like this one above.  I was simply attempting to make a point that you're wonder and amazement at such a feat was unfounded.  <BR></P>

[Kutark]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>Deleted since its a triple copy of prev post.</BLOCKQUOTE> <p>Message Edited by Kutark on <span class=date_text>08-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:41 PM</span>

[Kutark]

<P>Deleted since its a triple copy of prev post.</P><p>Message Edited by Kutark on <span class=date_text>08-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:42 PM</span>

[Azilarir]

<div></div>My apologies in advance to the rest of the community... feel free to skip this post as it really only applies to Kutark. Let me get this straight.  You were proven wrong about a time frame of "20 weeks" (4.8 months) to be an acceptable amount of time to do <b><i>nothing</i></b> but earn money for a single project (upgrading 20 or so spells)?  Well I suppose that's your opinion.  20 weeks is a waste of my time if I've found other methods at earning money faster.  You also contradicted yourself first dispelling that it's not difficult to accomplish what I have (25 Adept III's as of this writing) then backtrack to "well I was only talking about the important ones".  Plus let's not forget you threw in the chance at Master drops even though you made it clear you're only talking about the upper tunnels which don't drop Master's.  Add another hour or two (depending on class) to your run for the <b><i>chance</i></b> to get a Master and run your numbers again or don't throw in irrelevant data. I'm truly sorry you got so bent out of shape at being told that it's more efficient to harvest the items yourself, in my opinion.  It's my opinion.  Honestly, I'm not here to start crap with other players -- I have better things to do.  Based on my experiences harvesting hundreds of hours, my averages are about 1 rare per 4 hours.  Yes, it's random, but the chance to succeed doesn't vary, so stretched over the same 24 hours/week, when you earn 4p, I earn 7p (or the rares themselves, which saves a little time, but that's negligible).  Sometimes I'll only earn the 4p that you earned.  Sometimes I'll earn 10p or more.  This week (from Monday and not counting Friday), I have harvested a rare pelt, two rubies, one ebon, three rhodium, and a figwarts.  On my server, the value of these goods combined (going with LOWEST broker price) are 12.7p in 44 hours (so far) which is 30g/hour (for <b><i>my</i></b> server, which will vary obviously) even though this is only 1 rare per 5.5 hours.  Even with people going insane in Splitpaw, upping their hours to 50 hours/week you're looking at dropping 4.8 months to 2.3 by your 10g/hour average.  If every waking gameplay minute in EQ2 is spent in Splitpaw (not raiding, not grouping, not harvesting, not tradeskilling, not questing, not doing writs, etc.), you could just about have accomplished that by now since Splitpaw has been around since 6/22/05... or ...accomplish the same in 31-58% the time by harvesting. I never disagreed with your opinion that actually upgrading that many abilities is useful.  It simply isn't, <b>you're right</b>.  This conversation started based on the infered question "how do you get that many upgrades?" not "is it worth it to upgrade that many?".  To which I hope GilfalasElaandrin has found a solution that works for him now, whichever he may be more comfortable with.  But on the subject of upgrade value, there's no need to argue a point we see eye-to-eye on. Finally... I'm perfectly calm.  It seems like someone posting repeated explicitives, arguing themselves points they don't need to and contradicting themselves on others, and accidently triple-posting the same message may be the one who needs to 'chill out'.  If people's opinions and experiences are that offensive to you, then you may want to stay away from the forums. (P.S.: I never said my accomplishment was astounding.  Again, a point I agreed with: it's not that difficult, considering what can be done to accomplish a full set of Adept III's and I should be entitled to have my own opinion about the most effective way to do so.  So we've both posted our opinions, we've both crunched some numbers, and we're all free to choose whichever method at earning money and rares based on this information -- so let the conversation end now and let's stop cluttering the forums.) <div></div><p>Message Edited by Azilarir on <span class=date_text>08-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:04 AM</span>

[Kutark]

<DIV> <P>Thats pretty funny, i'm bent out of shape? I'm not the one out to prove anyone and everyone wrong. I made a post that was approx 2 lines and you went ape[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] over it. </P> <P><BR>The point you seem to misunderstand completely is that what is and isn't reasonable is 100% subjective. I'm sorry you have your panties in a twist because i implied that your "accomplishment" wasn't as difficult as you made it out to be. If i had been in here from the start making huge posts about the topic, then you would be comletely in the right saying what you have been saying, the issue here is i made an offhand comment, and you took it and twisted it around in your head to make it mean whatever you wanted it to mean, and then unleashed the cannons on me. </P> <P>I do find it amusing you keep posting these numbers and try to use them as hard fact. You said you spent 44 hours and made 13.7pp. I've now just passed 46 hours mining (and im not counting travel time) in both RV and Feerrott. I have to date mined 1 rhodium cluster, thats it. I also forage and harvest wood. Nothing, from any. Not everyone has the same luck with this as you have. I'm not the only person i know that has had similar luck. Yes of course over time it will all average, but there are valleys and peaks just like anything else. You can't take a small sample of time and just up it to suit your needs, it doesn't work that way. I had a guildee the other night mine 2 ebons off the same node. I happen to be in a valley, a very deep valley, and you, apparently, are on your peak. I had my luck earlier in the game, i spent 2 hours in nek mining one day and got 1 steel cluster, and 2 palladium clusters. Since then i've had pretty much atrocious luck, but thats irellevant, the point is mining is not a reliable source of income. Splitpaw, on the other hand, is. Its guarunteed loot, its not mining for 4 hours in the hopes you will get something and then not. </P> <P>So, what i'm going to do now is post my original post, and i'll highlight some important information just so you dont miss it:</P> <DIV>"You can make anywhere from 50g to 1pp+ a day in splitpaw, depending on how much you play.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With adept 3's from 40 to 50 generally costing about 1.8-2pp each, you should be able to manage adept 3's <STRONG><U><EM>for all your useful spells</EM></U></STRONG> in a reasonable amt of time."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, who now is the one who is "bent out of shape" on this topic?</DIV></DIV>

[Azilarir]

I hope you realize that you ignore the majority of what I've said and I'm really tired of your aggressive and presumptuous attitude.  You make it very difficult to avoid stooping to your level and resorting to simple-minded insults, nevermind arguing a handful of points that are irrelevant. "Thats pretty funny, i'm bent out of shape?" -- Yes, you are.  See the end of this post. "I'm not the one out to prove anyone and everyone wrong." -- No, you're just trying to prove me wrong.  Which is odd considering you're arguing my personal opinion.  Keep in mind that you started all this by overreacting to my reply that for me, personally, it was not as worthwhile to grind in Splitpaw (to purchase rares) than harvest rares myself.  By the way, arguing with you that my opinion (with regards to anything) is a far cry from 'out to prove anyone and everyone wrong'.  I'm neither trying to prove you wrong (I'm proving that your method is wrong for me, personally) nor do I believe that you are 'everyone'. "I made a post that was approx 2 lines and you went ape[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] over it." -- Considering my response, I don't agree.  Here's my full response to you in reply: ------------------------------------------------------- <blockquote>Kutark wrote:<div>You can make anywhere from 50g to 1pp+ a day in splitpaw, depending on how much you play.</div> <div> </div> <div>With adept 3's from 40 to 50 generally costing about 1.8-2pp each, you should be able to manage adept 3's for all your useful spells in a reasonable amt of time.</div><hr></blockquote> I certainly don't mean to criticize, but using your math, it would take 45-100 days (over three months) to upgrade.  That's not a reasonable amount of time to do the same activity every single day, especially to the casual player.  Not that my method is much better, but does have marginal benefits based on time alone.  Factor into risk (there's always some) and it's not the most profitable for most people.  Realisticly, most people don't have time to harvest half the day like I do, so they won't get 2-3 rares a day (3.0p - 6.0p per day), but I still find it better than Splitpaw, especially if your server sells rares much higher than others. ------------------------------------------------------- That's "going ape****"? "The point you seem to misunderstand completely is that what is and isn't reasonable is 100% subjective." -- I absolutely do.  And posted as much "Well I suppose that's your opinion." and "I'm truly sorry you got so bent out of shape at being told that it's more efficient to harvest the items yourself, in my opinion.  It's my opinion." (which was sincere, incidently).  If that seems that I misunderstand or fail to recognize subjective comments (especially those that I've made myself), then that's your problem. "I'm sorry you have your panties in a twist because i implied that your "accomplishment" wasn't as difficult as you made it out to be." -- Ignoring the obvious insult (sorry, I won't be intimidated by passive-aggressive comments), you seem to be completely lost on the actual subject.  The subject isn't whether or not the accomplishment is difficult (in fact, I said it wasn't to Gilfalas and how I managed it, personally -- which agrees with you that it isn't), it's about time investments to accomplish a *full* set of Adept III's in tier3, with respect to efficiency.  You neglected to say that it doesn't take long to get Adept III's of spells that are *important* in your argument and haven't confronted that fact yet.  Go ahead and argue other points (that I have openly argeed with you on) if you like, but they're not relevant.  As far as being upset about your implied opinion, I don't think I've exhibited anything remotely close to it.  Maybe you'd like me to, but I won't. "...the issue here is i made an offhand comment, and you took it and twisted it around in your head to make it mean whatever you wanted it to mean, and then unleashed the cannons on me." -- Read over the posts.  It wasn't me who turned everything around.  Stick to the subject or resume back-to-back ramblings that are off topic with the occasional burst of immature and baseless insults.  Either way, you've already proven that there's no good reason to listen to you and replying is a waste of my time and the time of anyone reading your replies (so this is it).  I'm done defending myself from personal attacks over a simple position of 'this is my opinion'.  I understand that you don't agree with me, so get over it. "I do find it amusing you keep posting these numbers and try to use them as hard fact." -- I haven't:  I've explained my perspective and experiences to establish why *my opinion* is what it is to share my perspective.  I've made it clear that these are my experiences from my perspective and that I've based my opinion on them.  My experiences obviously differ from yours, but again, I've explicitly posted that it's my opinion and not fact: "... it's more efficient to harvest the items yourself, in my opinion.  It's my opinion." and "... I should be entitled to have my own opinion about the most effective way to do so."  Be amused if it makes you happy, but I don't post opinion as fact. "You can't take a small sample of time and just up it to suit your needs, it doesn't work that way." and "... you, apparently, are on your peak." -- I agree.  Good thing I haven't.  My luck doesn't seem to fluxuate as much as yours apparently does.  At worst, the longest time of hardcore harvesting took about 7 hours to find a rare.  That's my experience over the past 9 months including 800-1,000 hours of harvesting (yes, I harvest a lot).  My average over that entire time was split up into weekly allowances for the purpose of comparison with your weekly estimates.  For your peace of mind, I did not take a sample total for one specific week in my general calculations.  Also, if I'm on a peak, then I have been since I've started playing. "... the point is mining is not a reliable source of income." -- I know and agree that it's not completely reliable (especially on short-term scales).  I'm sorry your luck with harvesting isn't better. "i'll highlight some important information just so you dont miss it: <div>    "You can make anywhere from 50g to 1pp+ a day in splitpaw, depending on how much you play.</div> <div>    With adept 3's from 40 to 50 generally costing about 1.8-2pp each, you should be able to manage adept 3's <strong><u><em>for all your useful spells</em></u></strong> in a reasonable amt of time.""</div> -- I didn't miss it.  In fact most of my previous replies have indicated as much.  I wonder how much *you* are missing to have misunderstood this so many times. "So, who now is the one who is "bent out of shape" on this topic?" -- My guess would be the person posting irrelevant information.  The person who has misunderstood and/or ignored most of the other person's replies.  The person who is constantly getting Faarbot'ed for excessive profanity.  The person who is arguing the same topics that were already agreed to.  The person who confuses fact from opinion. ... in otherwords: you. <div></div>

[djhbeek]

the forums have quite a sufisticated PM system for those who want to have long drawn out conversations with each other ... just a random observation ...<span>:smileywink:</span> <div></div>

[Azilarir]

<span><blockquote><hr>djhbeek wrote:the forums have quite a sufisticated PM system for those who want to have long drawn out conversations with each other ... just a random observation ...<span>:smileywink:</span> <div></div><hr></blockquote>I agree and apologize that Kutark decided to make this a public problem, a point I've made a few times.  I really should have just rolled my eyes and ignored him to begin with.</span><div></div>

[daymoore21]

Now using Cedrian's fantastic breakdown of the combat changes as they exist NOW, what would the top 5 spells be if I wanted to focus on tanking? Thanks again for everyones inputs.

[Kutark]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Azilarir wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> djhbeek wrote:<BR>the forums have quite a sufisticated PM system for those who want to have long drawn out conversations with each other ... just a random observation ...<SPAN>:smileywink:</SPAN><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I agree and apologize that Kutark decided to make this a public problem, a point I've made a few times.  I really should have just rolled my eyes and ignored him to begin with.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I'm growing really tired of dealing with this.  If this really needs to come down to it, i would be more than happy to go from a post by post basis and sort this out.  I just keep having to addr this as Azilarir continues to try to pin this on me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So. I'm going to be brief, and start from the top.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Me: 1st post:  I state you can make certain amt of money in splitpaw. approx 2 sentences.</DIV> <DIV>Az: 1st post:  Az states that using my math, that it would take 45 to 100 days to obtain the spells and that is not a reasonable amt of time for a casual player, doesnt specify what exactly he is referring to.</DIV> <DIV>me: 2nd post: direct qoute: <DIV>"<STRONG>Hehe, ok, first of all, you need to factor in costs of different tiers.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Regardless i was talking about getting the spells upgraded that are useful at 50.</STRONG>"</DIV> <DIV>(note: so far, nobody has insulted anybody at this point"</DIV> <DIV>Az: 2nd post: Direct quote: "<STRONG>GilfalasElaandrin was 'astounded' that I had so many Adept III's.  You replied that it's not that difficult to get [a complete set of] Adept III's.  Now you're saying you weren't talking about getting a complete set of Adept III's.  Far as I can tell, you were talking about all the Adept III's, not just the useful ones.<BR><BR>I'm not looking for a fight, but I haven't swayed any in my opinion."</STRONG></DIV> <DIV>Az then goes on to make some statements and figures, stays reasonable and polite, although the tone of the quoted document does imply some defensiveness at my statement, still though, no insults made.</DIV> <DIV>me: 3rd post: I get annoyed by the fact that Az is quoting my posts and making lengthy posts using "my math" to try to make a point that i am somehow incorrect in my statements. Admittedly the post was a bit smart-[Removed for Content], though i certainly made no personal attacks. I did state that Az needs to chill out and that i was not looking to start any kind of argument.</DIV> <DIV>(note: notice nobody has mentioned anything in either of these posts about proving anybody wrong, though i did attempt to show that it was not unreasonable to say that someone could do that in a reasonable amount of time)</DIV> <DIV>Az: 3rd Post: direct quote "Let me get this straight.  <EM><STRONG><U>You were proven wrong</U></STRONG> </EM>about a time frame of "20 weeks" (4.8 months) to be an acceptable amount of time to do <B><I>nothing</I></B> but earn money for a single project (upgrading 20 or so spells)?  Well I suppose that's your opinion."</DIV> <DIV>Az then goes to state that i'm bent out of shape, and that i'm contradicting myself.  He also continuosly implies that i'm being offended by people's posts, etc etc.</DIV> <DIV>(at this point i'm tired of trying to defend myself)</DIV> <DIV>me 4th post: I do exactly the same thing that az has done to me, and point out what i believe he is doing in regards to my post.  Again, a little smart [Removed for Content], but no personal attacks (other than the panties in a twist comment, which looking back i can see being interpreted as an insult, i used it as a figure of speech, my apoligies if it was interpreted differently)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Az 4th post: direct qoute: "I hope you realize that you ignore the majority of what I've said and I'm really tired of your aggressive and presumptuous attitude.  You make it very difficult to avoid stooping to your level and resorting to simple-minded insults, nevermind arguing a handful of points that are irrelevant."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now he is telling me that i ignored what he is saying? Yet does say exactly how i've done that, reading my posts i think i've addressed everything he has said.  Agressive attitude, yes, later, before it was passive.  Presumptuous, no. Stooping to my level?  Wow there is another implied statement that i am somehow below him.  Simple minded insults?  You still haven't shown one example of a "simple minded insult".  Arguing points that are irrelevant?  Again, show me, please.  Nothing i've posted has been at all off topic or irrelevant.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm fine with leaving this here.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm just getting sick of having to defend myself from a post i made that was a total of 2 sentences getting misinterpreted and twistes around.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, I apologize if i offended you, you were absolutely right that i was aggresive, and i will admit to that.  But i certainly never made simple minded insults or anything of the like.  We can shake hands and walk away from this and console our differences if you'd like.</DIV></DIV><p>Message Edited by Kutark on <span class=date_text>08-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:45 PM</span>

[hylozoist]

<DIV>In response to the top 5 skills for a tank:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well, things are still subject to changes, so we should really wait.  Healing aggro is changing (apparently decreasing?) and our buffs are decreasing.  Thus it seems like Amends would be a good pickup to help transfer aggro - but we don't know what the skill will do at any higher than App I.   Obviously we only have two taunt choices, and Clarion call was re-upgraded but Cedrian just posted that it still was not very impressive, while Zealous preaching remains a useful taunt, as our highest group taunt.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'd guess now it'd be in this order of importance for a tank to have:</DIV> <DIV>1. Zealous Preaching  (group taunt)</DIV> <DIV>2. Clarion Call (single taunt over time)</DIV> <DIV>3. Benediction (defensive stance)</DIV> <DIV>4. Amends (aggro transfer)</DIV> <DIV>5. Unwavering Faith (self-defensive buff)</DIV> <DIV>6. Devout Sacrament (super self heal)</DIV> <DIV>7. Pious Aid/ Display of Devotion / Prayer of Conviction (tie) (healing aggro)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hopefully more changes will make things more clear but for now, we have to wait.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by hylozoist on <SPAN class=date_text>08-18-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:52 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by hylozoist on <span class=date_text>08-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:54 PM</span>