Update on Ranged Weapon Slot

[MeridianR]

<p>The below was posted by Moorgard last night, in regards to a priests question: </p> <p> </p> <p> We don't plan at this time to give priests, mages, or crusaders the ability to use ranged weapons.</p> <p>However, we have talked about implementing a new type of item to go in the ranged slot for crusaders that would allow them to gain stat boosts in that slot. Some code work is required for this to work, so I'm not sure where that falls on the to-do list.</p> <p>Whether such items would also be usable by priests and mages is up to the mechanics team. While crusaders miss out on a stat slot compared to other fighters, at least no single class of priest or mage is in that same position.</p> <p>===========================Steve Danuser, a.k.a. MoorgardGame Designer, EverQuest II </p> <div></div>

[KBern]

<P>The cynic in me says this is still a long long way off.</P> <P>The statement came across more as a "sure sure we will get it for you soon, now stop bothering me."</P> <P>With the balance changes coming, there is no valid reason anymore why two of the fighter classes cannot have a range stat bonus.  Just add in a bow with no functionality.  Seems failry easy but I am not programmer so no real clue, just a frustrated paladin.</P> <P>I know this is not EQ1, but in EQ1 one of the most desired slots to fill was the range slot.  It just seemed like bonus stats which it is.</P> <P>Not only do I hope crusaders get them soon, but they really do need to add them for priests and mages too.  It just makes sense in every fantasy realm to have totems, religious symbols, mage focus items etc that would fit the bill to put in this slot.  No new attacks, just some desired stats.</P> <P>Oh well, we waited this long, what is a few more months, or years. :smileytongue:</P>

[RiotActer]

Sounds cool, but I'm not holding my breath. <div></div>

[MeridianR]

<span><blockquote><hr>KBern wrote:<div></div> <p>The cynic in me says this is still a long long way off.</p> <p>The statement came across more as a "sure sure we will get it for you soon, now stop bothering me."</p> <p>With the balance changes coming, there is no valid reason anymore why two of the fighter classes cannot have a range stat bonus.  Just add in a bow with no functionality.  Seems failry easy but I am not programmer so no real clue, just a frustrated paladin.</p> <p>I know this is not EQ1, but in EQ1 one of the most desired slots to fill was the range slot.  It just seemed like bonus stats which it is.</p> <p>Not only do I hope crusaders get them soon, but they really do need to add them for priests and mages too.  It just makes sense in every fantasy realm to have totems, religious symbols, mage focus items etc that would fit the bill to put in this slot.  No new attacks, just some desired stats.</p> <p>Oh well, we waited this long, what is a few more months, or years. :smileytongue:</p><hr></blockquote>What is this Combat change you are talking about? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> jk of course, but I agree it will be a couple months before this goes in.....</span><div></div>

[djhbeek]

how much coding could possibly be in making a range item that there is no ammo for (so you can't use it)? <div></div>

[hylozoist]

<DIV>I imagine the coding problem would not be in equipping the item, but rather, other variables -</DIV> <DIV>1) Gotta think of what item it should be</DIV> <DIV>2) Gotta give names and stats to the item</DIV> <DIV>3) Gotta put them on mob loot tables</DIV> <DIV>4) Gotta put them on crafter recipes and make sure they work</DIV> <DIV>5) Gotta put them on vendors</DIV> <DIV>6) Gotta put in a quest for them possibly</DIV> <DIV>7) Gotta do it for every tier</DIV> <DIV><img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Gotta decide for priests & mages</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I mean, they've introduced new items before... but from a design point of view, it's easier to do it with a new zone or something, than to inject new stuff into existing content.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks for searching out and letting us know about the update... at least it's a question of "when" and not "if"</DIV>

[djhbeek]

6) ... god ... i forgot that they will probably make us do another quest to get something that should have been in since live ... <div></div>

[MeridianR]

<span>Not to mention, if this item will show up visually on the Crusader, then it will take a ton of work to get it ready. </span><div></div>

[GilfalasElaandrin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MeridianR wrote:<BR><SPAN>Not to mention, if this item will show up visually on the Crusader, then it will take a ton of work to get it ready. <BR><BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Simplest way would be for it NOT to show up visually. I mean bows only show up when used and frankly if they do it right then we won't be actively USING what these will be and therefore will not need any graphics.</P> <P>As previous poster said, just give us a 0 range, 0 damage 'bow' that cannot use any ammunition in game. Give it stats, give it an inventory icon like a symbol or charm of some sort and then have it require Determiend Fait/Zeal to equip. Voila crusader range items.</P> <P>Impelentation into drop tables would be the easiest part. Hell they couild just take long bows and short bows. Copy them, then remove their range, graphics, damage and ammmo requirements and rename them 90% of the work would already be done.</P>

[MeridianR]

<span><blockquote><hr>GilfalasElaandrin wrote: <blockquote> <hr> MeridianR wrote:<span>Not to mention, if this item will show up visually on the Crusader, then it will take a ton of work to get it ready. </span> <div></div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>Simplest way would be for it NOT to show up visually. I mean bows only show up when used and frankly if they do it right then we won't be actively USING what these will be and therefore will not need any graphics.</p> <p>As previous poster said, just give us a 0 range, 0 damage 'bow' that cannot use any ammunition in game. Give it stats, give it an inventory icon like a symbol or charm of some sort and then have it require Determiend Fait/Zeal to equip. Voila crusader range items.</p> <p>Impelentation into drop tables would be the easiest part. Hell they couild just take long bows and short bows. Copy them, then remove their range, graphics, damage and ammmo requirements and rename them 90% of the work would already be done.</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote>Simple in theory, complicated in practice <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I agree that it seems to be an easy change, but I am guessing there are a lot of variables, and also a lot of interdependant pieces and parts that need to happen to make it possible. Who knows', either way having something there will be a big benefit to Crusaders all over <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span><div></div>

[djhbeek]

my personal theory (no proof).  is that this is tied up in the combat balancing because it would make pallies (slightly) more powerful, and there is a hold on basically all combat balance issues ... <div></div>

[KBern]

That is my hope now also. 

[lisasdarr]

Or of course we could all just stop worrying about min / maxing and powergaming and just enjoy being Paladins for what they are rather than fretting over a few dozen points across several stats. Nah, that's never going to happen. <div></div>

[djhbeek]

wow, if you don't enjoy discussing balancing issues, why are you reading this thread, let alone posting on it? <div></div>

[lisasdarr]

<span><blockquote><hr>djhbeek wrote:wow, if you don't enjoy discussing balancing issues, why are you reading this thread, let alone posting on it? <div></div><hr></blockquote>Raading it because it is on the paladin forum, and I read most of what is posted here. Posting on it because I keep seeing the same arguements about the ranged slot in various threads, and I decided to make a sarcastic comment in this one. This is not a balance issue, it is a min/max issue. Paladins are not gimped or unbalanced by this, as some obviously believe, we have Paladins that post here who are capable of out doing the other fighter subclasses in DPS, in tanking in all sorts of ways, if they can do that then we are hardly gimped. Non-the-less people are still making out that the lack of these stats is a major issue, it isn't that big a deal unless you are really worried about maxing your character to the Nth degree. It doesn't mean you can't tank, it doesn't mean you can't solo and it doesn't stop you dealing damage, healing or whatever else you are doing. </span><div></div>

[KBern]

<P>You are right in that it is not a major issue.  I don't play my paladin and think, "wow I need a range stat increase" all the time, except when I inspect another fighter class.  :smileytongue:</P> <P>The timing for these threads though is great because of the upcoming changes.  If I have been reading correctly, our stats will be very important once the changes goes through.  That alone says we probably should have something coming our way to assist us in having the best stats we have.</P> <P>I guess you can call it min/maxing, but isn't that one of the major reasons many of us play?  Of course the main one is to have fun and entertain ourselves, but the next goal for most people is upgrading their character as best as they can.</P> <P> </P>

[Pathin Merrithay]

<P>Major issue or not, this should have been addressed as a balance issue way before this... Lots of minor issues build up into major ones. Like ranged weapon slots... The fact that crusader buffs -don't- stack as intended while Guard/Berserkers do... That we have combat arts that still don't work right... </P> <P>The reason we have these boards is to deal with things like this. Is the ranged slot by itself game breaking? No. But do all the small things add up to make us less effective then we could, and in fact, have a right to be? Yes.</P>

[Nydysean]

Another thing to think about is if they allow us to equip bows without range they have to give us a skill for them.  Of course as I am writting this I am wondering if they cannot code the weapons themselves as "usuable by all."  However, if they do end up giving us a ranged skill they will have to figure out a way to prevent us from using ranged weapons that do fire ammo.  Thus holy symbols for us and priests and spell components (not ones that are literally used) or focus items for casters might be the best way to go.  Then again I know very little about computers and absolutely nothing about coding.  Just some ideas running through my head after a long night at work. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[GilfalasElaandrin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nydysean wrote:<BR>Another thing to think about is if they allow us to equip bows without range they have to give us a skill for them.  <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>They can set any item to require any skill in game as a requirement. As I posted in an earlier post in this thread they can simply have the item require Determined Fait or Determined Zeal and they would be equippable only by Paladins and SK's respectively.</P> <P>Every class in EQ has one skill that only they get. Whenever they want to make an item usable by only that class they only have to flag that item as needing that classes skill.<BR></P>

[xbraindeadx]

I think Paladins should be able to throw spears or somthing like that, seems like somthing a holy knight would do.

[Pathin Merrithay]

Lets not start getting ahead of ourselves... An item to make up for a slot deficiency is one thing. Turning us into spear-throwers isn't something I care to see happen. Our ranged attacks come via our spell line, and I have no qualms with that at all. (Ever tried to use a longbow or throw a spear in full plate? Well, neither have I, but I can't imagine it's an easy thing to do. *wink*) I really don't see the how spears fit into the heavy armor version of the paladin as it stands now.

[Vampy]

In keeping with the undead slayer theme that I dearly love I would appreciate seeing "Holy Grenades" or "Hand Held Holy Water Launchers". Clearly will never occur but hey, my BS is as good as yours!

[GilfalasElaandrin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>Pathin Merrithay wrote:</P> <P>(Ever tried to use a longbow or throw a spear in full plate? Well, neither have I, but I can't imagine it's an easy thing to do. *wink*)</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Actually, yes I have done both and it is not nearly as difficult as you would think, but it gets tiring very fast. A few shots or throws is possible, but not something you would want to do regularly. Plus the armor has to be fitted to you very well if it is plate or else you simply do not have the range of motion needed a lot of the time.<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> Vampyyr wrote:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In keeping with the undead slayer theme that I dearly love I would appreciate seeing "Holy Grenades" or "Hand Held Holy Water Launchers". Clearly will never occur but hey, my BS is as good as yours! <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Actually in your 30's and 40's your will get combat spells that do indeed look like 'holy hand grenades'. We get a damage over time spell in the 30's and a direct damage spell at 40 that look like thrown orbs of magical power that arc to the enemy and explode. I have called them 'holy hand grenades' in fun since I got them.</DIV><p>Message Edited by GilfalasElaandrin on <span class=date_text>07-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:20 AM</span>

[xbraindeadx]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pathin Merrithay wrote:<BR>Lets not start getting ahead of ourselves... An item to make up for a slot deficiency is one thing. Turning us into spear-throwers isn't something I care to see happen. Our ranged attacks come via our spell line, and I have no qualms with that at all. (Ever tried to use a longbow or throw a spear in full plate? Well, neither have I, but I can't imagine it's an easy thing to do. *wink*) I really don't see the how spears fit into the heavy armor version of the paladin as it stands now. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Many people have different opinions, it doesn't mean that you are right, I can see Paladins throwing spears or wielding pikes or lances as they are now.</DIV> <DIV>Throwing spears off of the top of out holy steed seems like somthing that wouldn't be a hard thing to do.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><IMG height=550 src="http://www.soldiers-russia.com/new_soldiers/medieval_europe/pb421.JPG" width=584 border=0></DIV>

[Pathin Merrithay]

<P>My ideas and opinions on what I think a traditional paladin should be as been covered in posts like this before. Without getting into this deeply, and further derailing this thread I might add, Paladins thus far in EQ1 and EQ2 are not known for their thrown/ranged weapon skills. Lances are one point I will certainly grant you, (and you'll notice I never mentioned anything one way or another about them) but I do not expect to see any ranged weapons for us. It simply doesn't fit the EQ2 paladin flavour.</P> <P> </P> <P>Besides which, Moorgard set it right there in OP. There are no plans to give us ranged weapons.. Only to make up for a deficiency we have compared to other fighter classes.</P><p>Message Edited by Pathin Merrithay on <span class=date_text>07-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:16 PM</span>

[KBern]

<P>Personally I dont want a range weapon, just something for the stat boost in the slot.  I am fine not tossing anything, and just nuking for my pulls.  Though a bandoleer filled with throwing gnomes would be deadly!</P> <P>That being said, I am all for Paladins to gain access to lances.  There were some really nice 2H Lances for paladins in EQ1 that fit very well into the history of knights and paladins in general.</P> <P>Even a small to hit bonus/damage bonus when mounted would be a nice addition, but just getting a chance to boost my stats wiht something filling an empty slot would be great and enough for me.</P>

[eyes007]

<P>Wow Patthin, I think your signature is absolutely gorgeous!! I'm looking to do one for me, but I'm waiting for enough money to buy Adobe Photoshop CS (not the cheap Elements version). 5 stars for your siggie <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> As for the topic in question, I'm wondering if our "imbalance" has alot more to do with the ranged slot than most people consider, I mean, we AREN'T really that gimped (I'll certainly be one to put my hand up and say I do a fairly good job as a tank!) and that maybe it's the extra stats we are missing that all other plate tanks have that make them slightly more effective.</P> <P>I mean an item that does say +10agil, +12wis, +40 Health, +40 Power (one of the lesser fabled stat items that I have...as an example) is a huge boost to avoidance, mana pool, spell damage and mitigation health. That would go a great distance in revamping our class....in any case, I'm looking forward to the respec so I can choose Kasines cos the said doofus chose Arems Enlightened Judgement instead <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Percivale</P> <P align=left>Lvl50 Paladin</P> <P align=left>Phoenix Rising</P> <P align=left>Oggok</P>

[xbraindeadx]

All i said was..<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> xbraindeadx wrote:<BR>I think Paladins should be able to throw spears or somthing like that, seems like somthing a holy knight would do. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>and Boom! one starred. Although I don't really care about them, they are just stars. Just goes to show you how some people can't have other peoples opinion getting in the way of their own.<BR> <p>Message Edited by xbraindeadx on <span class=date_text>07-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:03 PM</span>

[eyes007]

Kinda of a dumb system really, the star thing. I don't have anything against your spear idea xbrain, but spears are traditionally used in light cavalry, a knight in full armor would be lucky to stay on his horse after commiting that much energy to a throw lol.

[eyes007]

oh and I wanted to have the same amount of posts as you xbrain so I look like I'm of equal worth/value lol.

[Antryg Mistrose]

It was me, I admit it. I one-stared you.  For the very selfish reason that I want something to put in the ranged slot for stats, which is an entirely reasonable request that has been made many times in this forum, and according to Moorgard's post we <b>MAY</b> get eventually.  Its by no means a given if you read his post, so I don't want to get greedy and demand it do something. When we start asking for the item to actually do an ammo based ranged attack, in addition to our ranged attack spells, it may lesson the chance of getting the item at all.  Other classes will see their exclusivity go, and their howls of unbalance may fall on Sony's ears. p.s. Have you looked at the cost of ammo?  Or talked to scouts who have to buy ammo AND poison to get decent damage. <div></div>

[KBern]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> eyes007 wrote:<BR> <P>Wow Patthin, I think your signature is absolutely gorgeous!! I'm looking to do one for me, but I'm waiting for enough money to buy Adobe Photoshop CS (not the cheap Elements version). 5 stars for your siggie <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> As for the topic in question, I'm wondering if our "imbalance" has alot more to do with the ranged slot than most people consider, I mean, we AREN'T really that gimped (I'll certainly be one to put my hand up and say I do a fairly good job as a tank!) and that maybe it's the extra stats we are missing that all other plate tanks have that make them slightly more effective.</P> <P>I mean an item that does say +10agil, +12wis, +40 Health, +40 Power (one of the lesser fabled stat items that I have...as an example) is a huge boost to avoidance, mana pool, spell damage and mitigation health. That would go a great distance in revamping our class....in any case, I'm looking forward to the respec so I can choose Kasines cos the said doofus chose Arems Enlightened Judgement instead <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Percivale</P> <P align=left>Lvl50 Paladin</P> <P align=left>Phoenix Rising</P> <P align=left>Oggok</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>It is a great sig, but for some reason everytime I look at it, the paladin looks like she is lining up a shot on a pool table. :smileytongue:</DIV>

[GilfalasElaandrin]

<DIV>Pathin has a very good point. While I can see paladins using ranged weapons in other world settigs easily, there is a long standing tradition that Paladins in NORRATH do not used ranged weaponry, even all the way back in EQ 1. The only time a Paladin is allowed to attack a foe that is not in arms reach is when strikign them down with divine force. In Norrath, anything else is cowardly and craven. Even Shadowknights, while base and evil, are known for their courage and determination and (perverted as it is) honor. They prefer to kill in person and not hide behind some weak ranged weapon, etc. Or at least that is the RP reasoning behind it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And with the Paladins in EQ 2 having a very good selection of divine ranged direct damage spells there is pretty much 0 need for an actual ranged weapon of any kind. I have gone 41 levels and never missed a ranged weapon exept for the bonus it would have provided my stats.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for lances or spears on horseback, while I would like to see it, implementnig lances would be, I would assume, pretty hard to do properly. Impossible since horses/mounts are meant to be aids only in travel in EQ 2, not as combat modifiers.</DIV>

[djhbeek]

yah, i always kinda liked the fact that i could stand next to a guard with a bow and have him say, that mob is oor for my bow, why don't you pull it.  <span>:smileyhappy:</span> <div></div>

[eyes007]

<DIV>Lol KBern....the fact she is a Paladin was completely ignored by me for some reason...../drool Wooty Woot Woot!!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh...I take back the negative comments about the star system now that someone has 5-starred my earlier post!! Woot X 2</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes I know....I'm very facetious!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Percivale "the Vain"</DIV> <DIV>LVL50 Paladin</DIV> <DIV>Phoenix Rising</DIV> <DIV>Oggok</DIV><p>Message Edited by eyes007 on <span class=date_text>07-29-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:20 AM</span>

[Pathin Merrithay]

<P>Thanks for the kind words about my sig. I wish I could take credit, but I just gave the idea and image of what I wants to a very skilled artist who handled it for me. Check out Dark Maiden Designs in the sig forum...</P> <P>Ok, and with that advertising done, I return you to your regularly scheduled program.</P> <P>-Saffy</P> <p>Message Edited by Pathin Merrithay on <span class=date_text>07-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:26 PM</span>

[xbraindeadx]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pathin Merrithay wrote:<BR>Lets not start getting ahead of ourselves... An item to make up for a slot deficiency is one thing. Turning us into spear-throwers isn't something I care to see happen. Our ranged attacks come via our spell line, and I have no qualms with that at all. (Ever tried to use a longbow or throw a spear in full plate? Well, neither have I, but I can't imagine it's an easy thing to do. *wink*) I really don't see the how spears fit into the heavy armor version of the paladin as it stands now. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I know this is a little late but...</P> <P> </P> <P><B>Fighter Changes </B></P> <UL> <LI><FONT color=#ff0000>The combat art damage output of Fighters has been set below that of Scouts. </FONT> <LI><FONT color=#ff0000>The auto-attack damage of Fighters is slightly higher than that of Scouts. </FONT> <LI><FONT color=#ff0000>All subclasses of Fighters now have both primary defensive and offensive stances. These stances do not require concentration. </FONT> <LI><FONT color=#ff0000>As part of their defensive stance, each subclass of Fighter now receives extra mitigation against a specific type of arcane damage (Heat, Cold, Poison, Disease, Magic, Divine, or Mental) . </FONT> <LI><FONT color=#ff0000>Monks and Bruisers have an additional stance that offers half the combined offensive and defensive bonuses of the other stances. </FONT> <LI><FONT color=#ff0000>The base health and power pools of Fighter professions have been adjusted. </FONT> <UL> <LI><FONT color=#ff0000>Monks and Bruisers have the highest health pool and lowest power pool. </FONT> <LI><FONT color=#ff0000>Guardians and Berserkers have balanced health and power pools. </FONT> <LI><FONT color=#ff0000>Paladins and Shadowknights have the lowest health pool and the highest power pool. </FONT></LI></UL> <LI><FONT color=#ffff00>Crusaders now receive the Spear and Great Spear skills. </FONT></LI></UL> <P><BR><FONT color=#ff0000 size=7>IN YO FACE!!</FONT></P>

[WAPCE]

The spears don't get thrown. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Pathin Merrithay]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> WAPCE wrote:<BR>The spears don't get thrown. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>And thusly, Saffy remains right as always. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[githnaur]

Ok, archery was recognised as a knightly pursuit. Am i overly interested in it as a pulling tool?  Not in the least. Do i want to be able to equip something in the ranged slot?  Oh yes.  Why should our class lose the stat boosts associated with that slot, where guardians and berzerkers and the rest gain them? Come on SoE <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Sort us out <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Kale]

As far as I'm concerned, I'm in the camp of folks that don't want, or need ranged weapons. But I also dislike the 'imbalance' - whether perceived or real. It seems a bit unfair to me that a Guardian can equip a sword/shield combo (or two swords) <b><i>and </i></b>a bow all at the same time, and recieve stat and other enhancement benefits simultaneously. I'm not sure the fair response, however, is to grant Paladins a 'range-weapon-slot' item that isn't really a ranged weapon, just for stats. That seems like a silly fix. I think a much better answer (though probably 10 times harder to code, and 100 times more likely to enrage Guardians, as well as range classes) is to make the Bow a primary two-hand weapon, and not a 'ranged' weapon. You're either shooting a bow with both hands, or you're using a sword/shield, or two swords, but you're not equipping all at the same time. In this regard, this is where I think Neverwinter Nights had the right idea. You could hotkey different weapon combinations, but you could never equip all at the same time. Due to the hotkeys you could switch quickly during combat - but at least you had to make a conscious decision to do it. To me, that seems the fairest thing.

[Coho1]

<DIV>Maybe this whole ranged weapon thing could be solved my making an item that does minimal damage...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Something like  "Blessed bag of rocks" </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>  Damage  2-4</DIV> <DIV> + 12 to wisdom</DIV> <DIV> + 20 to power</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>or whatever. Then they wouldn't have to figure out how to make a ranged item that doesn't shoot.</DIV>

[OrcSlayer96]

<DIV>Hehehe, how about for the ranged slot we have a Bag of Holy Essences, stats comparable to a ranged/thrown item of tanks but uses the 10,000 essences i aquire getting hit and filling up the inventory.  Just move a full stack into the ammo slot and toss at the mob for enternaiment purposes(like pelting them with holy eggs or something).  After all the 5 minute reuse timer on our devout sacrement definetlt does not keep up with the amount generated on being hit.  just my 2cp...<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>P.S. if they did want you to throw it it would be short bow range or less after all it is the stats more than anything else that i would want, not dps....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>From the demented mind of Steel Battleguard - lvl 50 paladin/ lvl 50 armorer - Crushbone server</DIV>