Paladin's Roll in Combat Revamp, my thoughts (Discussion)

[MeridianR]

<p>So looking at the chart the Moorgard posted a while ago (attached below this message), its seems Paladin's are going to be going to just above Priests in the whole dps rankings.  While I have no issues with this fundementally, I think as it stands now unless something big happens Paladins are going to be relegated to nothing more then rez bots in raids. In a post a week or so ago, it was said we would keep aggro through our taunts and heals.  Well unless something happens to add any amount of hate to our heals, or a substantial amount of hate to our taunts we are going to be in the same situation we are in now.  (Meaning any warrior class if available will MT over us) </p> <p>Before you state that heals do generate aggro, do a test for yourself as is now.  Pick some random mob, and have someone without a taunt tank it. Now go toe to toe with any of the priest classes with healing and see who draws aggro first.  As for our taunts do a comparison between a Guardians Adept 3 AoE Taunt (don't know name) which does over 800 hate, to our final AoE taunt at Master 1 which does 565. Not to mention the slow and power drain which comes along to it. (our's does a divine debuff, which is fine if we are DPS on it, since we are divine damage...but if not, is just a waste) </p> <p>While our heals are a nice addition, as is currently they are mana burners (7% power per heal, and 7sec recast) that will not keep us alive at L50+.  Our final ditch saving spell does less then 33% my self buffed HP, and has a 30min recast timer on it.  We do have a decent 1400ish (Adept3) self only heal spell, but again a 5 min recast on that, doesn't really help when you are getting hit for what L50 mobs do. </p> <p>Solutions (or wish list of what I would like to see) </p> <p>-- Single Target Save Heal heal for at least 50% of max damage and stay at 30mins, or heal for 25% damage and be a 7-10 min cast.  These numbes should be a percentage also, not absolutes. So 50% is 50% not 1200. Having this add 5% hate would be a nice addition also. </p> <p>-- Single Target Heal - Our Pious Aid now at L50 (Still orange) and at Adept 3, hits for 712 I believe. Not bad, and I would keep it like this for power cost, recast time, if it added some sort of higher level hate. Say generates 400 hate, or 2%, or something like that.</p> <p>-- Single Target Taunt - When Goading Gesture (L20 Spell in Splitpaw) is almost as good as Clarion Call Master 1, and if it procs is better. There is an issue. More hate pls <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p> <p>-- Area of Effect Taunt - Simple raise the hate, and change the secondary effect to something that is worthwhile to our group, not just ourselves. Cause hey who really taunts when they are soloing <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Or lower the recast time to 15-20 secs to even out with other heavy armor tanks. </p> <p>-- Give us more worthwhile buffs - Single, group anything. Other then our stat buff (Crusade of the L40 Training Upgrade of Pious belief)  nothing really is worthwhile to our group.  If we are losing damage then at least give us a way to be an addition to a raid other then being rezbots.  A mitigation/avoid debuff or group mitigation buff would be nice. </p> <p>If anyone here, has anything to add let me know. I would like to forward this on to the devs, or at least post it on the Combat forum to get feedback on <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p> <p> DPS CHART: </p> <p>  First group:</p> <ul> <ul><li>Wizard/Warlock</li><li>Assassin/Ranger</li></ul> </ul> <blockquote dir="ltr"> <p>Second group:</p></blockquote> <ul> <ul><li>Conjurer/Necromancer (using damage pet)</li><li>Brigand/Swashbuckler</li></ul> </ul> <blockquote dir="ltr"> <p>Third group:</p></blockquote> <ul> <ul><li>Coercer/Illusionist, Conjurer/Necromancer (using tank pet)</li><li>Troubador/Dirge</li><li>Bruiser/Monk</li></ul> </ul> <blockquote dir="ltr"> <p>Fourth group:</p></blockquote> <ul> <ul><li>Berserker/Shadowknight</li><li>Paladin/Guardian</li></ul> </ul> <blockquote dir="ltr"> <p>Fifth group:</p></blockquote> <ul> <ul><li>Fury/Warden</li><li>Defiler/Mystic</li><li>Inquisitor/Templar</li></ul> </ul> <div></div>

[djhbeek]

im not a big fan of heals generating extra hate, because for the most part, if i'm tanking in a raid i'm not focused on healing.  but i agree, they have to do SOMETHING for us in raids ... the ever-present concern about taunts is one thing to address.  the other way would be either to give us another heal, or lower the recast on it, so that we can really keep up.  i'm not talking about keeping a mt up by myself in a raid, but 120hp/sec or so (non-self) in my opinion is kinda low.  right now as it stands, you simply cannot oop while spam healing if you are breezed.  i'd say, let me spam heal, let me be the first healer to take agro, cause i can tank the mob if i turn it ... <div></div>

[Knesh]

I dont know if if its just me or everyone. But I already think paladins dont do a whole helluva lot of DPS from swinging a sword anyway. I mean my current weapon is 31-101 and I hit 99% of the time in the 50's... Maybe once in like 4 battles I will get a hit in the 90's... To lower that even more = making us completely useless. We are not a priest class in EQ2 we are a fighters class. We are a hybrid.  We share the skills of both but neither being better in one or the other. To reduce the amount of damage we do and increase our healing advantage = not the solution to the problem. If anything i feel our combat melee dmg could be a bit improved. We dont need Dot damage (and they don't work anyway). Remove it please, thanks! Paladins should have Spells like Divine dmg that add procs to our weapons, we should have heals and some direct nukes we can lay on them. and stuns to stun the targets. This whole lets cast this on the chanter to lower his hate and transfer it to me is to me a dumb idea. That can't happen in the real world. We should fight for the agro like we did in EQ1. I had the end game in EQ1. We knew how to control agro. You learn it. You dont just cast 1 spell and watch it go away. Makes the game to bloody easy. Please let me work for the agro. Let me taunt, taunt. stun,  stun. to [Removed for Content] the mob off. So what the clerics healing this [Removed for Content] over here keeps stunning me... To me that makes more sense. The took a great hybrid class they had in EQ1 and managed to completely [Removed for Content] it. IMO it just seems like SOE in EQ2 is trying to reinvent a RPG D&D game... Sorry SOE the rules already exist - you can't change them. A paladin dealing DoT damage - never heard of it. <div></div>

[djhbeek]

well ... dps includes CAs ... so they are talking about the CAs relative damage most likely, since most of our dps comes from them ... <div></div>

[Oakbr]

I think it is important to remember that raiding is only part of the game...and a relatively small part at that, pre-50.  Really don't want to sacrifice the ability to solo or group versatility just to gain some type of raid utility.  Frankly, I don't want any major changes to Paladins, as I don't think we're broken in any major way.  Sure, some improved taunts would be nice, but at level 47 I can tank pretty much any non-epic mob I've ever seen, and losing aggro is not a problem. If I understand the proposed DPS rankings under the revamp, we will be losing part of our DPS potential.  We're on the same line with guardians, and that concerns me more than a little as a primarily solo player.  If this is done in the name of balance, rather than as a straight nerf, then we ought to get something back in exchange for giving up part (hopefully a very small, tiny, insignificant part) of our DPS.  I don't really want new abilities...I have plenty of buttons to spam in combat now.  What I would like is to see is possibly putting the SP taunt Goading Gesture on a separate timer, so we have three straight taunts, with one being AE, as well as a reduction in the power costs in our buff/bash/ward lines. 

[BadBoyMc2]

<span><blockquote><hr>Knesh wrote: We dont need Dot damage (and they don't work anyway). Remove it please, thanks! Paladins should have Spells like Divine dmg that add procs to our weapons, we should have heals and some direct nukes we can lay on them. and stuns to stun the targets. A paladin dealing DoT damage - never heard of it. <div></div><hr></blockquote></span>I fail to see here how we do not need DoT spells, Today i was just testing all my DoT spells to see if they work to their full extent. We do have a 4 DoT spells which our very use & deal 50-100 DoT which i find highly useful. Unless you have'nt noticed that these spells do DoT, then i would advise you to use them & see how much your dps increases. Judgement Strike Sworn Strike Unyielding Wrath Ancient Wrath These our all four (i think) of our DoT spells which all do effective DoT, maybe not as effective as mages, but we cant have it all can we now?

[djhbeek]

i did a little excel file of mana efficiency for dps for my hotbar and Unyielding Wrath comes in at #1 ... you get efficiency back as a return for the delayed effect.  i think the poster above was just disagreeing with the theory of pallies having dots ... but personally i don't see the issue in divine spells having lingering effects ... <div></div>

[Troodon]

<div></div><div></div>Certainly if the only thing were to happen was that our dps was toned down we'd find ourselves in an very awkward position, however the new dps table is only one aspect of the big picture. There are a number of initiatives that seem to be rolled into the Combat Changes: "<i>Rebalance dps across the archetypes</i>" - the inevitable dps nerf for fighters. "<i>Rebalance the primary and secondary role potential of members of the various archetypes</i>" - e.g. addressing the current imbalance in tanking potentional between the Fighters, rebalancing Priests etc. "<i>Rework all Combat Arts and Spells"</i>  - making upgrades worthwhile, fixing descrepencies and long broken stuff. You've cited the dps ranking table and everyone is probably familiar that nebulous Big Things are incomming regarding spells soon, but its worth reitterating the second item: <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=chars&message.id=29576#M29576" target="_blank">ballancing tanking potential of the fighter subclasses is being considered</a> - this is the origin of the often quoted "<i>Paladins will have heals and a nice array of taunts</i>", take a look at the entire comment. The devs seem to have recognized that the current complete Warrior stranglehold on High End Tanking* isnt healthy and have picked up on the notion of Situational Advantages of the classes vs certain types of mobs e.g. in some situations a Crusader will have an inate tanking advantage in tanking over say a Warrior, for others a Brawler would be a better choice than either etc. Key to this is the difficult balancing act of ensuring that the "Inate class vs mob advantage" is more significant than the range of "Tanking potential" across the subclasses, while taking into account the other abilities/dps a subclass offers. Interesting Times. *High End Tanking - by this I mean more than just Raids, its tanking in difficult circumstances: multiple encounters, protracted fights, low recovery time, frequent adds etc as opposed to the typical xp grind or easy quest tanking style where the group parks somewhere relatively safe, the tank fetches an encounter and brings it back to the group, they kill it and everyone rests up prior to the next pull. <div></div><p>Message Edited by TroodonIE on <span class=date_text>07-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:03 PM</span>

[Nurta]

<DIV>I must say I totally concur with the Lay on Hands spell line healing for more.  I chose the Jess's Holy Sanctuary and while it's a 15min timer 1033 HPs isn't squat.  Sure it can be used as a oh shiz last resort and hope that someone can kill the mob or heal but come on <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I feel like I am doing ok DPS in groups, but in raids I wouldn't really know as I am a rez bot <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I couldn't agree more with the power cost/recast time for our single target heals.  It's lacking and well when are they going to fix wards?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I must say however, shortly after dinging level 40 I fell in love my class all over again.  I just accepted the shortcomings and shaft for the range slot and started enjoying myself.  I am glad we have a useful rez and I don't mind it, but on raids it seems like my only job.  However, for some raids we have been in situations where a paladin was MA and have held their own.  I am hoping that with the revamp we will be able to hold it even more.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Good post Phov, I anxiously await these changes.</DIV>

[Troodon]

<div></div>Regarding heals and aggro, you might want to take a look at this study: <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=3&message.id=13977" target="_blank">Aggro Management: damage vs. hate vs. healing</a> "<i>Bottom line for those that don’t want to read a long post: </i> <p><i> One damage = One hate = One hp of healing</i>" </p> <p>Heals do seem to generate aggro, but compared to our even weak taunts its a very mana inefficient maner in which to do it, especially when you begin to look at the Hate generation potential of other subclasses taunts. Should at any particular moment you have both a heal and a taunt avaiable, the only advantage to healing yourself as opposed to letting a Priest do it is that they wont generate the Hate for themselves. Thats assuming you can get a heal off at all! With their comparitively slow cast times the only way I stand a chance of not getting interrupted when being beated on by several mobs is to throw up a ward first and then cross my fingers. </p> <div></div><p>Message Edited by TroodonIE on <span class=date_text>07-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:22 PM</span>

[MeridianR]

<span><blockquote><hr>Nurta wrote:<div>I must say I totally concur with the Lay on Hands spell line healing for more.  I chose the Jess's Holy Sanctuary and while it's a 15min timer 1033 HPs isn't squat.  Sure it can be used as a oh shiz last resort and hope that someone can kill the mob or heal but come on <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div> <div> </div> <div>I feel like I am doing ok DPS in groups, but in raids I wouldn't really know as I am a rez bot <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I couldn't agree more with the power cost/recast time for our single target heals.  It's lacking and well when are they going to fix wards?</div> <div> </div> <div>I must say however, shortly after dinging level 40 I fell in love my class all over again.  I just accepted the shortcomings and shaft for the range slot and started enjoying myself.  I am glad we have a useful rez and I don't mind it, but on raids it seems like my only job.  However, for some raids we have been in situations where a paladin was MA and have held their own.  I am hoping that with the revamp we will be able to hold it even more.</div> <div> </div> <div>Good post Phov, I anxiously await these changes.</div><hr></blockquote>Normally when we have all of our Zerkers around, they are the MA, but with our main being on vacation last week I was MA for both Zalak and Drayek...held my own fine, but that is because as a MA we aren't taunting at all <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Though it was nice to do something other then /r Rezzing <<<< %T >>>>>> <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Yesterday we took down Zalak, after he was changed yet again, and got a Pally master chest.....Kite Shield of the King (which I won <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) and Prayer of Conviction Master 1 (wow what a waste of a master...lol)</span><div></div>

[Nurta]

<P>We are doing Zalak very soon.  How was the new version?  Are his adds as fun as I hear?  I can't wait to see what he drops!<BR></P>

[Talbot]

<DIV>DoT's are useful if you know when to use them.  I.e. on Raid mobs when you your are working in Damage waves.  I.e. the raid group avoids the Wrath of Fury by timing and moving in an out of range.  If you use your DoT's as you are running away you continue to tick damage for the period of time that you are running out.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We can currently pump out some really good dps on group mobs.  At level 50 you have 4 AOE's on different timers that are great for certain Raid situations.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I I don't care so much about hate generation as I love the idea of agro transferance.  What they need to do is maybe give us better buffs to amplify the current agro we are draining or raise the percentage amount of agro transferred.  I do not want to lose this ability as it does place us in less of just rez bot role.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What I would like to see is since we don't have access to range equipment slot.  How about they toss us a bone.  Drop our defensive stance down to 2 con rather than 3.  This would allow us to have Defensive stance, STR,STA,WIS buff and redemption if you so choose.  In the off chance you don't care to use redemption, as in an offtank role, you still have 1 con to buff the mt with our Stat buff.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Dasein]

<DIV> <HR> DoT's are useful if you know when to use them.  I.e. on Raid mobs when you your are working in Damage waves.  I.e. the raid group avoids the Wrath of Fury by timing and moving in an out of range.  If you use your DoT's as you are running away you continue to tick damage for the period of time that you are running out. <HR> </DIV> <DIV>Except that you cannot cast the DoT while moving and the DoT from Oath Strike will not stack with other Oath Strike, meaning if there's more than one pally in the raid then only one will be able to get in an Oath Strike. </DIV>

[BlackW]

<P>Moorgards post really does not say a whole lot.  Here is what I was told about the Combat Upgrade at the summit:</P> <P>1.  Paladin damage may decrease for low lvl (Apprentice, Adept I) spells and combat arts but may increase for Adept III and Master I.</P> <P>2.  Paladin mitigation should increase.  Not sure about HP.</P> <P>3.  The current mastery system will be done away with.  Spell and art effectiveness will depend on character lvl not mastery lvl.</P> <P>4. Adept III+ spells and arts will have something extra added to them (not sure what that will be).</P> <P>5.  Intelligence may matter more to Paladins after the Upgrade.</P> <P>6.  Paladin power efficiency should be improved, especially for Adept III and Master spells and arts.  Currently most if not all a3+ spells and arts use more power, not less.  After the upgrade they should use less.</P> <P>7.  You will get the opportunity to respec your character after the combat upgrade patch.</P> <P>So, Paladins with uber gear, spells and arts may actually get stronger, much stronger.   Paladins with starter, gear, spells and arts will probably get weaker.  The role of the Paladin will not be changed and may actually be more focused.  I think what they are after is more distinguishing between the classes rather than a blending of them.  This information is a few weeks old and may be subject to change.</P> <DIV>The best way to find out about upcoming changes is to make a character on the test server and go test things out.  I have 2 characters on the test server.   I have not yet tried PvP though I would like to check it out.   Currently, dying in PvP on the test server results in exp debt and equipment damage.  I hope this will change when PvP goes live.</DIV><p>Message Edited by BlackWeb on <span class=date_text>07-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:46 PM</span>

[MeridianR]

<span><blockquote><hr>BlackWeb wrote:<div></div> <p>Moorgards post really does not say a whole lot.  Here is what I was told about the Combat Upgrade at the summit:</p> <p>1.  Paladin damage may decrease for low lvl (Apprentice, Adept I) spells and combat arts but may increase for Adept III and Master I.</p> <p>2.  Paladin mitigation should increase.  Not sure about HP.</p> <p>3.  The current mastery system will be done away with.  Spell and art effectiveness will depend on character lvl not mastery lvl.</p> <p>4. Adept III+ spells and arts will have something extra added to them (not sure what that will be).</p> <p>5.  Intelligence may matter more to Paladins after the Upgrade.</p> <p>6.  Paladin power efficiency should be improved, especially for Adept III and Master spells and arts.  Currently most if not all a3+ spells and arts use more power, not less.  After the upgrade they should use less.</p> <p>7.  You will get the opportunity to respec your character after the combat upgrade patch.</p> <p>So, Paladins with uber gear, spells and arts may actually get stronger, much stronger.   Paladins with starter, gear, spells and arts will probably get weaker.  The role of the Paladin will not be changed and may actually be more focused.  I think what they are after is more distinguishing between the classes rather than a blending of them.  This information is a few weeks old and may be subject to change.</p> <div>The best way to find out about upcoming changes is to make a character on the test server and go test things out.  I have 2 characters on the test server.   I have not yet tried PvP though I would like to check it out.   Currently, dying in PvP on the test server results in exp debt and equipment damage.  I hope this will change when PvP goes live.</div><p>Message Edited by BlackWeb on <span class="date_text">07-19-2005</span> <span class="time_text">10:46 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Those changes are fine with me, if and only if: -- Warriors lose there HP Stacking (which seems they will be) - Nobody wants to group with a Paladin when they can get 1k + HP from a Warrior -- Our Taunts are brought into line, or we are given some type of group hate ciphon -- We are allowed to get an item in our ranged slot that gives us bonus stats.</span><div></div>

[Knesh]

<span><blockquote><hr>BadBoyMc2k4 wrote:<span></span> These our all four (i think) of our DoT spells which all do effective DoT, maybe not as effective as mages, but we cant have it all can we now? <hr></blockquote>That is exactly my point we can not have it all. We can heal, we can do dmg in melee combat - we are not a mage/fighter. We are a priest/fighter. We heal and do fighter dmg. Leave the DoT's to the real spellcasters of Norrath. I would hate to lose slashing, crushing dmg just to be able to lay a dot on a mob. I rather gain the respect of battle and of healing power than to let the mob die by a damage over time line of spell - because I can only hit the mob with my giant sword for 50 points of dmg....</span><div></div>

[BlackW]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MeridianR wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR>Those changes are fine with me, if and only if:<BR><BR>-- Warriors lose there HP Stacking (which seems they will be) - Nobody wants to group with a Paladin when they can get 1k + HP from a Warrior<BR>-- Our Taunts are brought into line, or we are given some type of group hate ciphon<BR>-- We are allowed to get an item in our ranged slot that gives us bonus stats.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Good points/ideas.  My Paladin alt has a3 pious belief(inc str and sta by 25).  I also use a str and sta ring.  I always cast it on myself  I find that I often have comparable HP to most gaurdians my lvl.   It is a shame we need all that to get close to them.   For now I would get the a3 of pious belief or whatever the t5 equivalent is (I have forgotten what it is and i dont feel like looking it up so dont flame me).  Right now at 44 I have the following stats with full buffs (no group buffs):</P> <P>Health 3999</P> <P>Power 2006</P> <P>Mitigation 52.6%</P> <P>Avoidance 64.4%</P> <P>That is with the Shiny Brass Shield.  I am fairly certain that a tweaked gaurdian my lvl would be higher, maybe much higher on HP.  If a 44 gaurdian would respond with his/her stats, I would appreciate it.</P> <P><BR> </P>

[Yrield]

<DIV>I found this post by Moorgard:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"The goal isn't to make the game less challenging by any means. The goal is to make the game easier to get into and more enjoyable to stick around in, and part of that is actually increasing the challenge to make accomplishments more meaningful. I've been playing with the combat changes a lot lately, and I feel that they will bump up the challenge level of the game in a good way. As a bruiser, I really like them. While some of my attacks have changed, the biggest difference is in buffs. I've had a lot of fun figuring out which choices to make, and there are some very cool strategies for picking out which offensive and defensive buffs to use in a fight. Having no casting time on most attacks changes the pace of combat a lot, and I like it. While fighting solo encounters is just as doable for me, heroic mobs are definitely going to need a group to go after."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=21905#M21905" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=21905#M21905</A></DIV>

[MeridianR]

<span><blockquote><hr>Yrieldom wrote:<div></div> <div>I found this post by Moorgard:</div> <div> </div> <div>"The goal isn't to make the game less challenging by any means. The goal is to make the game easier to get into and more enjoyable to stick around in, and part of that is actually increasing the challenge to make accomplishments more meaningful. I've been playing with the combat changes a lot lately, and I feel that they will bump up the challenge level of the game in a good way. As a bruiser, I really like them. While some of my attacks have changed, the biggest difference is in buffs. I've had a lot of fun figuring out which choices to make, and there are some very cool strategies for picking out which offensive and defensive buffs to use in a fight. Having no casting time on most attacks changes the pace of combat a lot, and I like it. While fighting solo encounters is just as doable for me, heroic mobs are definitely going to need a group to go after."</div> <div> </div> <div><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=21905#M21905" target="_blank">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=21905#M21905</a></div><hr></blockquote>Which is fine, if they up the loot tables a bit.  Getting 2-3g vendor trash for a heroic now, isn't bad because you can take them down easily with the right group. Or even solo for some classes. (Personally I can do blues most of the time) Now if your going to need groups for each and every heroic encounter, and it is going to take significantly longer, then I would like a chance to get something other then: Vendor Trash no stat heavy armor For beating it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span><div></div>

[Yrield]

<P>I find this part of the post more interesting</P> <P>"I've been playing with the combat changes a lot lately, and I feel that they will bump up the challenge level of the game in a good way. As a bruiser, I really like them. While some of my attacks have changed, the biggest difference is in buffs. I've had a lot of fun figuring out which choices to make, and there are some very cool strategies for picking out which offensive and defensive buffs to use in a fight. Having no casting time on most attacks changes the pace of combat a lot,"</P>

[MeridianR]

<span><blockquote><hr>Yrieldom wrote:<p>I find this part of the post more interesting</p> <p>"I've been playing with the combat changes a lot lately, and I feel that they will bump up the challenge level of the game in a good way. As a bruiser, I really like them. While some of my attacks have changed, the biggest difference is in buffs. I've had a lot of fun figuring out which choices to make, and there are some very cool strategies for picking out which offensive and defensive buffs to use in a fight. Having no casting time on most attacks changes the pace of combat a lot,"</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote>I am all for getting new, more important buffs.  Our dps is mitigated by other classes quite easily (though I was well over 200 dps just autoattacking the FG Drakota last night....gotta love RGF and haste <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ). and I think we can add a lot more to groups/raids if we got some buffs that added something we dont offer currently. A higher slashing / crushing debuff, or a group mitigation / avoidence buff would be nice.</span><div></div>

[Oakbr]

<i> I also use a str and sta ring.  I always cast it on myself  I find that I often have comparable HP to most gaurdians my lvl. </i>You might want to think about adding an AGI ring as well.  After the revamp, when Wis/Int plays a larger role, I intend to have a ring for each stat--just cast the clicky buffs and swap rings.  You won't lose the buff when removing the ring that cast it.  Granted, sometimes swapping out multiple rings every 25 minutes gets tedious, but  all the extra stats  boost damage, hp, and avoidance.

[Majorminor]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Oakbrow wrote:<BR><I>I also use a str and sta ring.  I always cast it on myself  I find that I often have comparable HP to most gaurdians my lvl. <BR><BR></I>You might want to think about adding an AGI ring as well.  After the revamp, when Wis/Int plays a larger role, I intend to have a ring for each stat--just cast the clicky buffs and swap rings.  You won't lose the buff when removing the ring that cast it.  Granted, sometimes swapping out multiple rings every 25 minutes gets tedious, but  all the extra stats  boost damage, hp, and avoidance.<BR><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Hello my name is Zrais and I am a ring aholic.......</P> <P> </P> <P>I have 5 rings and 2 slots hehe.  Just can't get enough of them.  Use str/sta/agi/ and even a wis one I got cheap, plus the ring from the ancient watcher I throw on for the haste sometimes</P>

[WAPCE]

<blockquote><hr>Majorminor wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Oakbrow wrote:<BR><I>I also use a str and sta ring. I always cast it on myself I find that I often have comparable HP to most gaurdians my lvl. <BR><BR></I>You might want to think about adding an AGI ring as well. After the revamp, when Wis/Int plays a larger role, I intend to have a ring for each stat--just cast the clicky buffs and swap rings. You won't lose the buff when removing the ring that cast it. Granted, sometimes swapping out multiple rings every 25 minutes gets tedious, but all the extra stats boost damage, hp, and avoidance.<BR><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Hello my name is Zrais and I am a ring aholic.......</P> <P> </P> <P>I have 5 rings and 2 slots hehe. Just can't get enough of them. Use str/sta/agi/ and even a wis one I got cheap, plus the ring from the ancient watcher I throw on for the haste sometimes</P> <hr></blockquote> Same here, though I'm keeping the INT ring in my bank until combat revamp when it will mean something. Until then, it's rotating the remaining 4 buffs + Ancient Slayer's Ring of Stamina.

[MeridianR]

On my fingers, I keep 2 crafted Tier 5 Ruby Rings (hey I had the money for them at the time..lol) and cycle out Crude Bloodstone rings for the other stats. Then I cycle out (depending on my roll in the raid, group etc) potions, that cover wisdom (int is with this), agility, and str/sta. All in all it takes about 2-3 mins to buff myself, which isn't bad.....unless you wipe the first 30 secs into the instance.  (ie - our first Act's of War zone in) <div></div>