A Few Observations....

[MeridianR]

Just posting a few observations from my recent raiding, and talking to our L50 Guardian MT. 1) We are extremely gimped in our AoE taunts. Paladin - Zealous Preaching (Master 1) - 565 hate (+760ish divine debuff) Guardian - AoE Taunt (Adept 3) - 850+ hate (and I believe a slow + power drain) 2) We need our Ranged Slot to be available for stats alone: Any Ranged Class can have the following stats (Albeight from a Fabled Master drop): +7 int +18agi +18 str +10 Wis +71 health +65 Power That is just way to many stats to be gimped on, because of not being able to ranged attack. 3) We have very little in the way of self buffs. Other then Devout Aid, we have no other HP buffs. Other then Kaisens' (or Crusade, which do not stack) we have no other self or individual buffs. <b>/discuss <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></b><b> </b><div></div>

[Yrield]

1) We are extremely gimped with our taunts We have the worse direct taunting power, SOE is so wrong here, its not even funny. I won't go with the +hate number, its just like putting salt in a wound 2) Yeah well, crusader cant use bow ? everyone can use a horse like a knight ? Whatever... Just give me a freaking bow and keep the arrows 3) Our self-buff are self-fluff Blessing of the Devout = +130hp Prayer of conviction = +118 power -------------------------------------------- Guardian: +1600 hp Zerker: +1400 hp Its not funny anymore to see a Zerker running around with 100 STA and MORE hp than me, when i have 175 STA... 75 freaking  points c'mon But...but...but you can heal. Sure, I can ! I can't buff my mitigation or my avoidance or my parry... Give me a break here, 75 pts ! +118 power is NOT a single heal nor a single ward and 130 hp never saved my life so far... SOE have no respect for his Paladin ? <div></div>

[Walnu]

Our buffs are trash. thx <div></div>

[MeridianR]

Yeah, it isn't a case of us not being able to tank...cause in single groups we can tank just as well as Zerkers and Guardians (albeight less power efficient).. It comes down to night and day difference in our ability to buff ourselves anywhere near Warriors in a raid. Max HP in say Darathar, Spirits of the Lost, Vox, etc are huge, and we can't get anywhere near what a Warrior (both zerker and guardian) can get. Even with a Troub, Warden, etc our avoidence and HP is nowhere near <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> That makes me sad...hopefully the combat revamp brings us into balance with them, and not the other way around. <div></div>

[BadBoyMc2]

I have to agree with wallnut our buffs our trash!!! Warrior sublasses, have buffs which increases their DPS & HP greatly and have about 4-6 buffs. Brawler sublasses, have buffs which haste them & increase greatly and have a wide range of them. What do we have? Divine Inspiration (Divine Resist+Increases Hate Generation by 1%)-I debate sometimes whether to even use the power for this buff is does barely anything for us. Prayer Of Conviction (+10 Wisdom, +100-120 Power) Absolute junk, i only use if we have casters in our group for the power or healers which need the wisdom. Blessing Of The Devout (Summons Devout Essense + 100-120 Hp) The 100hp is the only real HP increasing buff we have & im fed up of activating this, looking in my inventory & seeing 300+ Devout essences in my inventory, not very helpful if im low on space. Our most useful Buff has to be Crusade/Kasines Enlightened Piety, the stat boosts our very nice on these, this only buff i appreciate SoE actually giving us! <div></div>

[djhbeek]

well ... you forgot benediction ... but that's also trash ... <div></div>

[MeridianR]

<span><blockquote><hr>djhbeek wrote:well ... you forgot benediction ... but that's also trash ... <div></div><hr></blockquote>Call to Glory as well....the best part about that though is the 5% hate transfer, and if you run benediction it will mitigate the negative slashing/crushing you get from it. Plain and simple, our buffs are horrible, and we need work done to them.</span><div></div>

[SanJ]

<P>To toss more salt on the wound ...</P> <P>I'm standing next to a friend (level 50 Zerker) and notice he has the same two handed crusher I've been using (Ancient Ebon Flail--rarely use) until I roll better on the raid scene for Royal Great Flail.</P> <P>At any rate, I ask for an approximation on the damage he does with ... "that thing."</P> <P>He reports nearly +40 more damage (your damage)  then I report.  Worse yet, I have nearly fifty more (yes 50) STR then the Zerker.  Even better, he tells me to standby until after he buffs up as it will go up significantly!</P> <P>Thanks,<BR>Kalen</P>

[yzyh]

<P>I am far to be an RP player.</P> <P> </P> <P>But zerker and guardian beeing able to buff for betther then a paladin is freaking stupid IMO.</P> <P>Yeah I can heal. But my taunts, and skill are weaker bcuz I can heal and the mroe I heal the less I can use my power for something else then healing.</P>

[MeridianR]

<span><blockquote><hr>SanJun wrote:<p>To toss more salt on the wound ...</p> <p>I'm standing next to a friend (level 50 Zerker) and notice he has the same two handed crusher I've been using (Ancient Ebon Flail--rarely use) until I roll better on the raid scene for Royal Great Flail.</p> <p>At any rate, I ask for an approximation on the damage he does with ... "that thing."</p> <p>He reports nearly +40 more damage (your damage)  then I report.  Worse yet, I have nearly fifty more (yes 50) STR then the Zerker.  Even better, he tells me to standby until after he buffs up as it will go up significantly!</p> <p>Thanks,Kalen</p><hr></blockquote>Being a Barbarian Paladin, who took our racial trait for +5 defense, and with Benediction (only adept 1) running (So I am really L53 in defense) my mitigation, hp, avoidance, etc are never as high as a Zerker or Guardian when I am in the MT group (so normally with Troub, Warden, etc). Funny thing is, that my Str/sta and agi are usually higher then both classes.....it's pretty sad if you ask me. People don't understand how much better tanks Warriors are then us...I have been in raids where the Guardian only taunts once or twice and NEVER loses aggro..</span><div></div>

[Nurta]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MeridianR wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SanJun wrote:<BR> <P>To toss more salt on the wound ...</P> <P>I'm standing next to a friend (level 50 Zerker) and notice he has the same two handed crusher I've been using (Ancient Ebon Flail--rarely use) until I roll better on the raid scene for Royal Great Flail.</P> <P>At any rate, I ask for an approximation on the damage he does with ... "that thing."</P> <P>He reports nearly +40 more damage (your damage)  then I report.  Worse yet, I have nearly fifty more (yes 50) STR then the Zerker.  Even better, he tells me to standby until after he buffs up as it will go up significantly!</P> <P>Thanks,<BR>Kalen</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Being a Barbarian Paladin, who took our racial trait for +5 defense, and with Benediction (only adept 1) running (So I am really L53 in defense) my mitigation, hp, avoidance, etc are never as high as a Zerker or Guardian when I am in the MT group (so normally with Troub, Warden, etc).<BR><BR>Funny thing is, that my Str/sta and agi are usually higher then both classes.....it's pretty sad if you ask me.<BR><BR>People don't understand how much better tanks Warriors are then us...I have been in raids where the Guardian only taunts once or twice and NEVER loses aggro..<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Sad and true.  Especially on raids like Vox where all he does is taunt <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Our buffs are total horsepucky and the amount healed vs. power cost/recast time of our heals is laughable.<BR></P>

[Walnu]

Better buffs, range item (don't you dare try to tell me that us not having a range is part of the RP, cause thats [Removed for Content]), effecient taunts...pls my dps is fine....but i'd trade some of it for a range and some decent buffs <div></div>

[MeridianR]

<span><blockquote><hr>Walnutt wrote:Better buffs, range item (don't you dare try to tell me that us not having a range is part of the RP, cause thats [Removed for Content]), effecient taunts...pls my dps is fine....but i'd trade some of it for a range and some decent buffs <div></div><hr></blockquote>Yes I agree my dps (especially with a rgf and have haste) is more then enough, and I would be willing to sacrafice up to 50% of it, for more useful buffs/taunts. (FYI - 50% seems like a lot, but with a Royal Great Flail, and Haste [From Chanters, Inquisitors, etc] in my group I average over 250 on most epics that are not immune to crushing)</span><div></div>

[Alarion1]

I will preclude my statements below by stating that I have not raided at all as a Paladin, in fact I am only on the verge of level 38. Now, my original understanding of the fighter classes was like this: (rank goes from greatest/best in that area to worst) (Mitigation/meat shield ability) ----------------------------------------- 1. Guardian 2. Paladin/SK 3. Berzerker 4. Monk/Bruiser (DPS/damage output) --------------------------------------- 1. Monk/Bruiser 2. Berzerker 3. Paladin/SK 4. Guardian I may be way off here, but that's how I understood it to be. With that said, we as Paladins are already a great soloing class. Not the best, but far from the worst. In groups, we *can* tank, better so than most monks/bruisers but aren't the best at it. We do however do well as an  off tank. We have decent single taunt stuff, but our group taunts are lacking compared to Guardians (and maybe even Berzerkers). I am strongly against us having the same *as every other fighter classes*. We should not be doing the same damage as a berzerker *and* tanking as well as a guardian. What would be the point of having the other two classes at that point? If you go and give us a 1600hp (or more) buff, a mitigation buff, etc.. we eventually become soloing gods which would be a major imbalance. In normal groups, I am able to tank fairly well. However, I do tend to lose aggro if it's a big pull. Even with expending group taunt(s), buffs, bashes, etc. As for the range item... I see the point and I somewhat agree. I don't have enough experience in the game to really make defined comments on this though. <div></div>

[Littlet]

<P>Bah! Who needs to tank in raids! Sure our taunts are mediocre compared to guardians. Sure they buff alot better than us. But hey, we get to rezz people! We can make or break the raid! Yaaaay!</P> <P>/sarcasm</P> <P>But to lighten the mood of this thread, I seem to get more avoidance when in the MT group compared to the guardian or zerk. It's only by like .4% or something but it's still higher! :smileyvery-happy: Then again it doesn't matter since once that fight start and the warden's dust storm is thrown in, we're all at 100% :smileysad:</P>

[Rhianni]

<DIV>4) SOE has admitted that combat has problems and are doing a combat revamp.</DIV>